[Closed] Bench grinder advice?

They're just stones on a motor cheap is fine.

I wouldn't be happy with it not on something rigid and immovable the pack quite a punch when up to speed.

You also need to be really careful with them with regards the sharpening that you don't trash it by over heating or just making a really unstraight wonky end.

OK thanks. I am planning to get a proper workbench at some point but I will make it more of a priority.

I have quite a few inexpensive old chisels and garden shears etc to practice on but point taken about not overdoing it. The issue with overheating is that it would need tempering/hardening again?

I guess more useful advice would be watch plenty videos.

Lots of light passes with lots of qwenchying in water between passes.

Thing is though it's quite often the Back that needs attention and you can't do that on the grinder and doing that manually is far worse than the bevel.

screwed to wood and clamped to a Keter table will be secure enough. Quite low though to work comfortably and see what you'd be doing. Screw it it to a sturdy box or something and then clamp that to the Keter to get a better view of what you're doing.

Cheap grinders are fine - they are very simple things. The limiting factor for sharpening is the rests are just a bit of bent sheet metal and are quire flexy and usually not very level / perpendicular to the wheel so you don't really have a reliable datum when trying to have a bit of control over the angle you're grinding a blade at

It might be worth spending a little more on something that is designed for sharpening blades (if thats what you principally want to use it for) rather than a general purpose grinder. They give you flatter, broader grinding surfaces and bit more accuracy in setting an angle and tend to run a bit slower and cooler

Quite a variation in price on bench grinders, the wheels though are the important bit.
£20 is a bit of a worry and the grinder will be switched on for quite a while, so wil it overheat is the big question.
I'd look at something like this, which by no means is overblown in price.
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-craft-ac1502wsg-wide-stone-grinder-107070?utm_source=catalogue&utm_medium=pdf&utm_campaign=catalogue-tools-machinery-2020-21&utm_content=axminster-craft-ac1502wsg-wide-stone-grinder

Mmmm bench grinders. Another thing that's been on my shopping list for ages. I also don't want it taking up a permanent position on my bench though.

I was thinking of bolting it to a piece of thick ply with a lip on so I can pop it on the edge of my bench and quickly clamp it down.

Not sure I'd need two grinding discs though. Some kind of soft polishing wheel would be nice.

Cheap grinders are fine – they are very simple things

They are, but a disc of bonded grit spinning at 3.5k rpm warrants a bit of healthy respect.

It's very easy to blue a chisel on a bench grinder.

I'd maybe suggest buying a cheap honing guide, spray gluing some abrasive papers to a bit of glass and working your bevel on that.

Then flat the back off to a polish too.
Never bevel the back of a chisel incidentally. They don't work how they should if you do.

I have a little bahco honing guide and some oil stones, and I can do a pretty good (to my eye anyway) job of restoring/keeping sharp slightly blunt chisels but I have some old garden shears that came with 3mm or so totally flat edge for some reason, and some chisels that are totally wonky. The garden shears are taking a very long time to put edges onto.

That Axminster thing looks pretty good. Motivation for getting one is for sharpening right now but I'm sure it would get used for other stuff too.

I never use my bench grinder for woodworking tools. It's great for metal lathe tools and blades like scissors or garden tools but there are better options for chisels.

For mounting a bench, fixed or portable, will probably be a bit low. I've got mine mounted to the top of a metal drawer unit.

The garden shears are taking a very long time to put edges onto

they're supposed to have a flat edge they're shears. they shear not slice.

To be honest I actually do what kayak does with a glass plate and sandpaper unless the blade has been used as some sort of nail chopper/paint opener/pry bar/coldchisel/masonry chisel or a plane blade so rusted its got lumps missing at teh end. The bench grinder gets used primarily for outer cables and bits and bobs and shrpening drill bits .

they’re supposed to have a flat edge they’re shears. they shear not slice.

Hmmm well they were spectacularly ineffective until I sharpened them lots, and now they are ok-ish. The guy I bought them off mentioned they would need a new edge putting on them. I looked up a guide to doing it with a Dremel and it says 'Test if your shears are razor-sharp with the ‘paper cutting test’'. 🤷‍♂️

This being STW should someone not be suggesting a pedal powered grinder anyway?

They’re just stones on a motor cheap is fine.

I wouldn’t be happy with it not on something rigid and immovable the pack quite a punch when up to speed.

I'd say its the other way round. Full disclosure; I've done my abrasive stones certificate and though my memory is fuzzy I'm still sure an appropriate fixing is required.

That said I use my Lidl special loose, the biggest issue I have is the stone which is definitely not true but once up to speed sits quite happily. I'll use it till the stone is knackered then get better stones or convert it to a polisher. They're not bad but definitely not great. As with all these things though it's the end user that is the biggest risk. We were sold on the fact its basically a claymore mine, **** with it at your peril. Even knowing how to determine if the stone is knackered before you fit it should be in the instructions. Also, don't grind the sides, ever!

Rule no. 1.......SAFETY GLASSES when bench grinding.

If the grinder is not fixed to a solid secure mounting then there will be vibration.

I would not use a bench grinder on woodworking tools. The edge that you need for fine cutting of wood is very delicate and much better to obtain by hand on a stone. I have an 'elipse' honing guide to help keep the angle whilst moving up and down the stone.

Bench grinders are fine for lathe tool bits remenbering to always keep the tip cool by plunging into water. I have an old aerosol cap hung by a piece of wire next to the grinder.

Dont know what your budget is, but dont buy cheap.

The Axminster machine quoted above would be good or perhaps:

https://www.warco.co.uk/bench-grinders/302995-6-inch-grinding-machine.html

or

https://www.chesterhobbystore.com/shop/workshop-equipment/6-bench-grinder/

This one has a work light, and a coolant tray.

Dont forget rule no 1.

Is the sandpaper and glass method people are talking about the same as this 'scary sharp' method?

I'd be really cautious using a bench grinder with decent chisels, a 400/1000 reversible diamond stone (about 20 odd quid for a Faithfull one) does a quick job but stropping and honing is what makes the big difference.

I have a powerful one - i use it plenty but ive never used it for my chisels .... dual grit stone and oil.

I mostly use mine for drill bits , and tidying cuts - its a handy thing no doubt - I bought it and used it alot when i was doing alot of sheet metal work on the landy for tidying up edges and squaring corners + shining for welding on small pieces where the hand held grinder was not safe.

although they are just stones on a motor they vary wildly in their abilities - i started with a cheap bnq powerpro ? powerplus ? one and it would stall with very light pressure . - id have bolted that to wood and clamped it in a workbench as it was pathetic. would likely have stalled out if it fell over.- Knowing how they should be from using them at work I replaced it with a 1/2HP hilka (75 quid) - impossible to stop while using it safely and effectively.

I didn't trust myself with a standard bench grinder, so I waited for a 20% off day at Machinemart and got a whetstone wheel instead for around £115

They are really quiet, slow and make light work of everything so I now use it on kitchen knives, scissors, chisels, my axe, loppers, etc.
Really useful tool and one I'm glad I invested in.

I actually bought it because I bought a lathe and knew I'd need to keep the tools super-sharp. Only in 3 years I haven't got the lathe out of the box, but I use the sharpener weekly 🙂

I don't think you'll have any problem clamping it in a folding workbench.

Is the sandpaper and glass method people are talking about the same as this ‘scary sharp’ method?

Yes, Paul Sellers shows how to do it using a pack of Aldi/Lidl chisels as well.

'Scary sharp' is really just a buzz word phrase meant to impress people who dont normally use sharp implements, or have to sharpen anything more than once in 6 months, theres a bit more to it than that.
Quality of the steel being sharpened for one thing. Aldi chisel, or anything can be made extremely sharp, but it wont stay that way for long and the edge will crumble or roll over and be back to blunt pretty quickly.

Hand sharpening anything is a pain and really time consuming, hence machines being used like the above draper, which actually works very well for initial grinding of blunt or chipped blades in that it works quickly. But after that you'll need to put a secondary bevel on the chisel, so you'll also need a much finer grit stone. The secondary bevel adds strength to the edge, being not as acute.

The art of sharpening is a huge subject with many camps and there isnt really enough room on this forum to jot it all down. You'd need to sticky the thread 😆

I use ice bear Japanese stones and diamond stones and a big professional whetstone grinder that has the capacity for doing long planer blades(or anything)

A typical grinder is quite difficult to use for many of the woodworking tools ,
unless you get the big wheel/slow speed special type, then they need jigs.
The current trend is to use a bench belt sander similar to a Sorby proedge , which is a bench mounted belt sander with some jig attachment.
Perhaps consider a std bench belt/disk sander , it would be more versatile than a grinder, but cost a little more around £90 + .
Whichever you use lookup diy jigs to keep your angles right on chisel and plane blades , this is for refurb or refresh of damaged edges , otherwise some wet and dry on plastic chopping boards or diamond plate will do the sharpy sharpening.

Theres another option, which combines powered whetstone and white wheel grinder.
The white wheels dont heat up to the same degree as standard grey wheels, and are usually recommended or found on grinders designed for use with woodworking tools and tooling.

This is is £180

Aldi chisel, or anything can be made extremely sharp, but it wont stay that way for long and the edge will crumble or roll over and be back to blunt pretty quickly.

The Aldi chisels are well regarded, not the absolute best but good workhorses.

This being STW should someone not be suggesting a pedal powered grinder anyway?

I used to know a guy who'd do the crusty festival circuit with a pedal powered contraption turning a huge vintage whetstone. For a price festival goers could have their knives sharpened.

Very few people visit festivals with with knives that need sharpening so not a huge money spinner ,,, but also that was lucky as he was sort of learning-by-doing and it would take all day to sharpen one knife. Eventually it would be presented back to the owners as....very, very much less knife than they'd handed over that morning, perhaps as a bonus it might also be a bit sharper. Perhaps.

Even in the good natured environment of some catastrophically muddy hippy dippy festival in a field in Wales (probably) I'm genuinely surprised he never got stabbed- even with a knife that was mercifully short and blunt.

Got given this recently, don't really know what I'll do with it yet! Not even that sure what jobs they bench grinders are good for! What would you do with it to make good use of it, and what's recommended to get it well set up as it just looks like a hazard to me at the moment!

Also, what do you want a grinder for to sharpen a knife, just buy a few cheap stone dishes like this guy:

This is mine. I know we're moving away from the op's question on bench grinders but this thing is pretty good at sharpening everything that has an edge on it, knives or chisels and planes. I've the planer blade attachment of which the rail doubles as a rest for grinding lathe and carving chisels.

Good old British engineering 😀

the machine itself is about 800, the attachments usually up to a couple of hundred each especially the longer ones for planer blades..

I bought an old set of damaged Sheffield steel chisels from a car boot a few years ago and attempted grinding the chipped edge back to straight/sharpening during lockdown.
I already had several wet stones/jig and an Aldi bench grinder but anything beyond a quick pass over a wet stone and strop was more difficult than I could be bothered with.

I will be picking them up from the local saw doctor on Friday😁
£12 to sort out the extra damage I did to all 4 of them seems a good price to me.

As above; bench grinders aren't for sharpening woodworking tools, things like chisels etc, unless you really need to grind a completely new edge on a badly damaged tool. The kind of grinders used to sharpen say woodturning tools, are a very different animal to the common or garden BnQ type machines. Stuff like Tormek, with water baths, slower speeds, much more stable bearings etc. They are a lot more expensive. I use water and diamond stones to get my tools sharp; slow and steady gives a far better result. Little and often; a quick once over on a fine stone is good practice, to keep edges sharp. And a flattening stone if using waterstones, is essential in keeping the stone perfectly flat, as any cupping just leads to problems.

Quality of the steel being sharpened for one thing. Aldi chisel, or anything can be made extremely sharp, but it wont stay that way for long and the edge will crumble or roll over and be back to blunt pretty quickly.

I have a set of those, bought simply out of curiosity, some years ago. They are German steel, and surprisingly good quality. They hold a very fine edge, well, and don't need sharpening as often as stuff like Silverline, Stanley, Faithfull etc. In fact, they've stopped me spending loads more on fancier chisels, because they do such an excellent job. The only difference I can see between them and the fancy stuff, is the level of finishing on the blades and handles. I only need the very edge and a flat back to do the work, and these have been the best value of any tools I've ever owned.

I bought an old set of damaged Sheffield steel chisels from a car boot a few years ago and attempted grinding the chipped edge back to straight/sharpening during lockdown.
I already had several wet stones/jig and an Aldi bench grinder but anything beyond a quick pass over a wet stone and strop was more difficult than I could be bothered with.

Sharpening tools is an art, that needs practice and patience. Takes as long to learn how to properly sharpen stuff, as it does to learn to use the tools well themselves.

Very few people visit festivals with with knives

These days you'd just get arrested carrying a knife at a festival....

I have a set of those, bought simply out of curiosity, some years ago. They are German steel,

You sure about that. I heard from a couple of forums they were Chinese made, but that said they had ok reviews, so not the worst of the bunch, especially at £8 for 4.
https://timetestedtools.forumchitchat.com/post/i-did-a-science-aldi-workzone-chisels-a-semireview-7423531

Yes I've read Paul Sellers notes on them, but Paul Sellers uses Lie Nielsen and veritas pm-v11 chisels. And aldi are a German company, so you possibly find the origin of 'made in Germany' refers to the company origin, rather than the chisels themselves.
Lie Nielsen chisels are £65 each, Veritas PM-V11 are £80 each. Thats per chisel, not a set of them.

So what I can see is the Aldi Chinese import chisels may or may not be on par with the big shed Chinese import chisels.

How ever my experiance of Aldi is ....may or may not be is a wide variation and depends on little more than the direction of the wind. QC is shocking to the point I've just stopped it's not worth it.

Get yourself some Diamond stones, Dia Sharp or Titman. 125 grit, 1000, and 10000. It takes no time at all, with no risk of overheating. All my chisels and plane blades have been sharpened this way, but my gouges get finished with a strop.

There's no need for a guide. They take forever to set up and are a waste of space. You'll get a feel for it in no time.

Oh, and pre war Addis chisels and gouges keep their edge for a long while. Nothing modern even comes close, except maybe very top quality japanese stuff, but they are ten times the price.

Yeah I like older chisels, a couple of my favs I keep for dovetails are about 80 -100 years old I reckon. They keep an edge well, but I do find they need honed more often that you would think, which might be down to me and my extreme angles
I've those - maker unknown, stanley and marples of different sets, the yellow/red shatterproofs are good. Stanleys are not so good, maybe basic for occasional home use, but you cant really bash at them for any length of time.
And 1/2 dozen Lie Nielsen which are my best, hold their edge extremely well and whisper through all hardwoods very easily.
Problem is or rather the development is in relation to the likes of 3 cherries, Lie N or Veritas is the steel is modern, and its that modern steel that makes a difference and places them above even the old cast steel chisels. The Japanese chisels are in a class of their own, and of quite varying grades, from £250-£350 for a set of 5 or 6, up to 10 or £20K for a single chisel, depending on who the maker is. I dont think we can really use them in a comparison to western chisels

You sure about that

Yes.

I heard from a couple of forums they were Chinese made

They're not, they're made in Germany. The Germans are a bit particular about putting their names to stuff. Aldi may well sell other chisels that are made in China; mine aren't.

Lie Nielsen chisels are £65 each, Veritas PM-V11 are £80 each. Thats per chisel, not a set of them.

I am more than aware of this, as I am to the lack of current availability of said brands. I have fancied a set of Veritas chisels for a while, but you cannot get them for love not money! Like most US made stuff at the moment. Stocks of Veritas in particular, are almost non existent in many lines.

There’s no need for a guide. They take forever to set up and are a waste of space. You’ll get a feel for it in no time.

I beg to differ. A guide takes a few seconds to set up, and gives far more consistent results than hand guiding. The cheapo Silverline etc guides can be a bit hit or miss, but I now use the Veritas guide system, and it's superior to any other method I've ever tried.

It's worth bearing in mind that being obsessive about razor sharp edges is largely pointless for most work; the finer you hone an edge, the more brittle it becomes, and it heats up more quickly too. You simply don't need such sharpness for 99% of woodworking. And if you're at the level where such sharpness is required, you'll already know how to sharpen tools. Some of the Japanese work is insanely intricate and perfect, but it's also incredibly difficult and hideously impractical in real terms, as each joint takes so long to achieve. But for the rest of us, a decent level of sharpness isn't hard to achieve, with a bit of practice and patience.

Hope you arent implying Veritas are American made 😆 being a Canadian brand and all 😆 😉

I also only sharpen using a guide. Without theres too much inconsistency and pretty much impossible to get the 2ndry bevel at the correct angle being small, its impossible to balance the chisel on it to hone, plus it's very much a case of uneven pressure and not being exactly 90 degrees.
I'll never but the Lie Nielsen version of the eclipse guide though, not at the horrible price they want for it.

Two advocates of complicated sharpening... If anyone needs a Veritas guide mine is sitting unused and getting dusty, so is up for grabs. 50 sobs including the small blade attachment...
Email nixon.dcase @gmail.com