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Not guilty?
Fine?
Prison?
I'm going for guilty and a big fine.
Guilty with a big fine and a couple hundred hours of community service.
The man is a thug.
Should be a short prison sentence, probably won't be.
Guilty and fine, probably for both of them.Reporting has been rubbish though with both sides being reported as fact
Guilty, transportation to the colonies.
Guilty, fine, suspended sentence and community service.
But he will still turn out playing for England. There will be those claiming that he should never play for England again, but that will fall on deaf ears. There will be those who claim that he of 'poor character' to be a 'role model'. On the other hand he committed (allegedly) a non-cricketing crime and will be punished accordingly. He has already been punished by the ECB by not being picked for last the Ashes tour.
Why do we expect our sportsmen and women to be any different from the rest of society? We have the thugs and the angels in society and the same in our sports teams.
Was his behaviour any different to probably 100 other incidents that happen in towns every weekend?
Not sure how many of those will involve prosecution or even get to trial.
I’m not defending him I actually think he is guilty but not sure he has been singled out for who he is.
There is something odd in the case. Alex Hales who was seen on CCTV kicking a man on the floor was not even charged and Stokes was only charged with affray. My guess is that identification of Hales was not of a high enough standard but why Stokes was only charged with affray not assault / GBH I find very hard to fathom.
I think he will get off. However he is clearly both a liar and a thug. Even if found guilty it will only be a small fine.
I do think very strongly his england career should be over
Maybe people don’t want the national representatives to be arseholes? Plenty of jobs would show you the door if you were convicted for violence.
Narcissistic thug who shouldn't be allowed to play at county never mind international level.
He will be found guilty but a custodial is very unlikely.
Total arse-head.
He's a hot head with some very thuggish tendencies. I suspect he'll get a suspended sentence and a large fine. I also suspect he'll play for England again.
And I personally think there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm guessing he'll be found guilty. His defence team will present a pile of statements from character whitnesses who are well respected in the higher reaches of the ECB. I bet the judge overseeing the case is a member at Lords and has old school friends at the top end of cricket.
He'll walk away with a fine and community service He'll get a slap on the wrist from the cricket aurthorities. His sponsors will not put him on their adverts for a few months. By January it will all be forgotten and back to normal.
I've been reading the BBC stuff about it, these two gay guys who keep getting referred to, do they actually exist?? They seem to be pretty key to the whole case.....
Personally, as a Cricket fan i can argue with my self over whether he should play for England again, but to me it's just comes down to. Bloke start swinging a bottle around gets a kick in. Both should be convicted or neither.
How did the other bloke get off as well when he was swinging a street sign around??
I would be out of a job if I was convicted of a violent offence and my registration would be removed
I would be out of a job if I was convicted of a violent offence and my registration would be removed
Is that because of the people you have to work with on a daily basis? How is that relevant to this case TJ?
It doesn't fit with the spirit of rehabilitation that was talked about in the capital punishment thread, if he can learn and move on from this and improve his life is that not a good thing?
In response to Kilos post above Mike
I have to be " of good character" to be registered as a nurse so even offences that have no bearing on my job can lead to dismissal and removal of registration. People have lost their registration for benefit fraud for example
It partly depends on whether he's lying or not for me, isn't his account the opposite of what the bouncer and the other guy involved are saying? If he's lying then throw the book at him and ban him for life from representing his country - that's not someone that screwed up once and is looking to mend his ways
I also don't see who he was only charged with affray, surely knocking someone out isn't just affray?
I would be out of a job if I was convicted of a violent offence and my registration would be removed
Indeed, but as a nurse, that somehow feels more relevant. Stokes is a cricketer, not exposed to any vulnerable groups (maybe kids, but that'll be supervised) and his work will in no way be affected by his conviction.
Indeed, but as a nurse, that somehow feels more relevant. Stokes is a cricketer, not exposed to any vulnerable groups (maybe kids, but that’ll be supervised) and his work will in no way be affected by his conviction.
Yea, but he's expected to represent his country and be a role model.
What message does it send out if you can beat the crap out of someone on a Saturday night, allegedly lie to the police, and go back to being adulated?
If he was stacking shelves in a supermarket I'd maybe have a different opinion as everyone needs a job and an income, but then I suspect the supermarket would likely fire him anyway.
does he have any previous ?
What message does it send out if you can beat the crap out of someone on a Saturday night, allegedly lie to the police, and go back to being adulated?
It's currently the prosecution making that allegation.
At the moment we have people who are taking class A drugs representing their country
Drink Drivers
Tax Cheats
Users of performance enhancing drugs
Where is the moral line?
Stokes has already been punished by the ECB before he went to court.
Guilty with a big fine and a couple hundred hours of community service.
This.
Dont know much about what happened other than the stuff reported on R5L.
No idea he had similar traits to that outlined in the offence report.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">tjagain
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I have to be ” of good character” to be registered as a nurse
I have some bad news for you
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Suspended sentence and 200 hours community service. That’s the max allowed and used in lieu of custodial.
Yea he should play for England. Restitution is a valid part of punishment.
Yea, but he’s expected to represent his country and be a role model
No, he's expected to represent his country, the role model part is somewhat pushed my the media, it's something I struggle with as...
At the moment we have people who are taking class A drugs representing their country
Drink Drivers
Tax Cheats
Users of performance enhancing drugs
These people are not role models and should never be put on that podium.
Stokes' job is to score runs and take wickets, his conviction (if he is convicted) will not stop him doing that.
These people are not role models and should never be put on that podium.
Does anyone know when this cobblers started? Who decreed that sportspeople are meant to be role models? When was it decided that kicking a ball about or chucking one was somehow deemed worthy of 'role model' status?
It's nonsense. Why wasn't it decreed that drummers are meant to be role models, then the press could have tutted at Keith Moon's antics. Its about as logical.
I would have paid to see Keith Moon open the batting for England, but not in his current state*.
*Actually, I would probably pay more to see that.
When was it decided that kicking a ball about or chucking one was somehow deemed worthy of ‘role model’ status?
Not sure but it does mean those that achieve it are worth even more.
At the moment we have people who are taking class A drugs representing their country
Drink Drivers
Tax Cheats
Users of performance enhancing drugs
Where is the moral line?
Somewhere between drink driving and tax cheats, with ABH well on the drink driving side of the line and class A drugs on the tax cheats side.
Personally I'd rather somebody used performance enhancing drugs (or class As or fiddled their taxes) than knocked me out in the street, but us that has a direct relationship to the sport concerned I think it is already covered by the ban from taking part in the sport.
If you listen to the defence case - a small award from court funds for being an upstanding gentleman, who merely tripped repeatedly into the face of someone on the floor.
If that turns out to be a lie, I would hope the judge would give him some time away to think about his actions.
But I very much doubt it.
Suspended sentence & fine.
If that turns out to be a lie, I would hope the judge would give him some time away to think about his actions.
There is a video of most of it, the rest comes down to who you believe the most. If you can prove a lie there you deserve your scout badge for psychic reading.
Whatever happens, I think we all know we can all look forward to a highly-paid Sunday tabloid EXCLUSIVE over 12 pages with pictures of him looking contrite, telling everyone how he's misunderstood, and blaming it on a difficult childhood or some such bollocks
Guilty and hope he gets a little holiday at Horfield Prison. Utter cockwomble.
Yeah but ... respect that he comprehensively decked the two yobbos he was fighting with.
He's not on the list for the 3rd test, ECB waiting for further development.
Given the test starts Saturday, they are still in court it's probably too tight to be part of a squad. Woakes did well enough at Lords to not make getting Stokes back a priority and it gives the ECB an easier job with PR
These people are not role models and should never be put on that podium.
I guess in the eyes of the ECB they are as they are the public face of England & Welsh cricket.
Yeah but … respect that he comprehensively decked the two yobbos he was fighting with.
As was said at the time - may quibble about shot selection, but a decent strike rate.
Without evidence from the two he claimed to be defending, I’m also of the “suspended & fine” outcome,
and the ECB have had their say, perhaps people should also wait until the verdict comes out before deciding what should be done.
Fine and community service just like Eric Cantona. Although he did originally get 2 weeks jail time.
I think he'll be found not guilty.
He’s a hot head with some very thuggish tendencies. I suspect he’ll get a suspended sentence and a large fine. I also suspect he’ll play for England again.
This.
And I personally think there’s nothing wrong with that.
And this.
He’s a prat and he had plenty of opportunities not to knock quite as much shit out of the other two. He definitely lost control and his actions could have resulted in much more serious injury. On the flip side there was a threat of the use of a weapon and anyone who goes around threatening people with a bottle should expect a bit of a kicking. Stokes had plenty of opportunity to stop.
Let’s hope he learns his lesson.
I suspect he is guilty and he will get the usual celeb treatment of big fine, comminity service and a suspended sentence. It won't happen but I would like to see him unable to play for England until community service or suspended sentence is over/expired.
From what I've seen of the CCTV looks like a standard Bristol brawl , albeit without the little Dave Ard clingons who like to go stamping on people's heads when they are down. After watching his mate getting knocked clean out, the other one shits it a bit . Ginger is wound up with the adrenaline flowing and goes after him to teach him a lesson.
wouldnt even be in the news if it was just joe public fighting.
I would like to see him unable to play for England until community service or suspended sentence is over/expired.
Why would you like that?
I suspect he is guilty and he will get the usual celeb treatment of big fine, comminity service and a suspended sentence.
Given how high profile this is I'd expect it to go by the book. Which these days is probably not custodial anyway.
I wouldn’t mess with him!
I agree the press coverage has been poor. I reckon his defence has done very well for him and he’ll be back wrecking batsman’s dreams shortly.
£695 for a pair of trainers?!?!
Send him daaaaahn........
I think he'll probably get off.
At least the last test has shown we don't need to him to win - a little bit of cloud and Trent Bridge should swing nicely so I doubt we'll need to bat twice.
Incidentally, literally a month before the offence Stokes is being charged for, there was a episode of Fighting Talk when one of the panelists recalled a story about Stokes in the 2014 (?) Ashes series... He came out to bat and the Aussie wicket keeper starter to sledge him. The English batsman at the other end (forget who) took Haddin to one side and told him to lay off. When Haddin ask why he was told 'because he'll f$%&*g kill you'.
He came out to bat and the Aussie wicket keeper starter to sledge him. The English batsman at the other end (forget who) took Haddin to one side and told him to lay off. When Haddin ask why he was told ‘because he’ll f$%&*g kill you’.
Sounds like a tame one there considering what the Aussies liked to fling about
Stokes is well known for his temper - broke his hand punching a door after being out in one match and put himself out for a while.
I think his brief has muddied the water enough to get him off.
IIRC the ECB did not drop him from the ashes because of this but because his head was not in the right place. so he is still awaiting any punishment from the ECB.
Unfortunately over the last decade or so the England cricket team has been full of rather nasty characters. cliques who bullied others
I think his brief has muddied the water enough to get him off.
IIRC the ECB did not drop him from the ashes because of this but because his head was not in the right place. so he is still awaiting any punishment from the ECB.
Opinions again?
Lets wait until the trial concludes before you disagree with the verdict 😉
I heard that fighting talk episode - it was Eleanor Oldroyd.
TBH if you have followed anything of the last few years of Aussie cricket then anything said in the middle would be taken as part of what was going on
A claim later emerged on Monday night that de Kock’s personal slur directed at Warner was in response to Warner first crossing the line with a series of personal attacks directed at the South African keeper as he was trying to save the game with his bat in the second innings…
The Proteas are privately alleging that Warner referenced de Kock’s sister and mother in some verbals.
Separate reports claim the South African camp also briefed local media that Warner called de Kock a “bush pig”.
A further report from South Africa’s Independent Media — the first news site to publish the leaked CCTV footage from Durban — claims Warner “led an hour long attack on the field” as de Kock and opener Aiden Markram frustrated the Aussie attack on their way to eventually winning the series opener on day five.
The quote above sounds fair game for the levels of in your face abuse that was going on, it seems like a good thing to say to quieten down some gobby shites who used to wear the baggy green. It would be a bold/stupid person to bring up sledging in that series as a character statement.
I'm certainly not defending his actions but firstly lets wait until the verdict, most of the case appears to rest on opinions and who you believe.
From what I've read - altercation happens over whether or not some people who haven't been identified or called by either side were abused / threatened by one or both sides.
One guy turns a beer bottle the other way up (presumably to act as a weapon) while the other allegedly graps a piece of metal from a road sign.
Stokes reacts and punches both - self defence or anger? Possibly both. How much do you punch someone in that situation? Until they aren't a threat any longer doesn't seem unreasonable, once you're past the point of trying avoid the need to punch anyone. (As someone who doesn't / hasn't been in this sort of situation, to hit someone once and then wait to see if that has put them off, or just made them more likely to attack you seems daft)
What I don't get is that Alex Hales (who hasn't been charged with anything) then apparently kicks (at least one of) the guys when they're down - seen on a video?
Clearly no doubt Stokes did it, just comes down to whether he really thought he was about to be bottled / the other guy about to attack him with a road sign, whether that was proportionate as a response, etc.
Is this being prosecuted because of the offence or because of who is involved?
Why is there no case against Hales..... are they after Stokes alone perhaps because of reputation (and has that in the end helped his case because they don't know what injuries Stokes caused and which Hales did?)
Why wasn’t it decreed that drummers are meant to be role models, then the press could have tutted at Keith Moon’s antics.
They did ‘tut’ at his antics. Odd choice btw - Moon has been dead for forty years.
Not guilty!? 🤔
I know nothing about the legalities of the charge, but I'd sign that legal team up!
and Not Guilty - awaits posts about celebrity getting you off etc
So given a jury has cleared him what sanction should the ECB take here?
Not guilty: certainly backs up the pummeling he was giving out in that fake video.
lucky boy
Wow!
Wow, I was way off. 🤷♂️
Then again the only overview I had was what was reported on R5L.
Not guilty: certainly backs up the pummeling he was giving out in that fake video.
The charge was affray, that is what he is judged against not punching somebody.
I had to look up the definition of affray, and having done so the verdict seems fair enough to me.
and Not Guilty – awaits posts about celebrity getting you off etc
Dunno about celebrity but money helps a great deal.
The other bloke got off too
They couldn't really convict one and not the other, unless he knocked himself out.
And apparently they shook hands in the dock after the verdict, which gives it a slight sense of "two blokes and some argy bargy after a few (lot of) beers". Not to condone it, but fights happen every Friday and Saturday night outside bars - few of them result in a high-profile court case
Interesting that the prosecution asked for the lesser charge of assault occasioning ABH before trial, but were denied by the judge. I reckon that might have stuck.
And apparently they shook hands in the dock after the verdict, which gives it a slight sense of “two blokes and some argy bargy after a few (lot of) beers”. Not to condone it, but fights happen every Friday and Saturday night outside bars – few of them result in a high-profile court case
I rest my case m'lud
Now, what real news has happened whilst this farce has been playing out 😉
Interesting as well that they mentioned they were charged with affray as no one made a complaint so they couldn't be charged with assault.
I can't believe there was such a fuss over it really - as has been said it was a typical weekend beered-up fight between adults, none of which were particularly innocent parties.
as I said above - if it wasn't for the person involved they'd have both been given a stern telling off and told to go home.
The gay couple that were in the middle of things there have apparently stated that Ben Stokes was protecting them.
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/08/14/gay-couple-ben-stokes-homophobic-abuse/
Was that not what Stokes claimed along he was defending 2 other blokes from a homophobic attack?
The prosecution scrabbling around to move the goalposts at the courtroom door is a clear indicator of charging decisions made for reasons other than the evidence.
Assault/ABH would have been the correct charge, with Stokes in court quickly rather than a year later. Even then a self defence argument could be made given the other guys had weapons of sorts.
EDIT: Didn't realise no-one had even complained of assault!
The article above certainly paints a very different picture to the one told in court. I wonder why they were not called as witnesses?
Though pink news should really check how their links read
Lets not forget around the same time Duckett poured a drink to effectively end his England career whereas Stokes (and others with similarly poor alcohol related behaviour) are somewhat better at cricket and have hefty contracts so get a free pass... wouldn't surprise me at all if the ECB continue to give a slap on the wrists and no lasting consequences