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I'll keep it brief:
We (the missus and I) are being texted/called every five minutes throughout the night since Weds 6th June, by the girlfriend of a handyman with whom we are having a dispute regarding the quality of some work he has done for us recently.
We paid him in full the amount he quoted us for, on the day of completion. Since then we have noticed some quality issues in his work which he has yet to resolve. Furthermore, his girlfriend is now charging us another £300 for 'extras' he carried out, but never quoted us for.
We have had no communication from this chap since the day he left, but his girlfriend has sent countless text messages, calling into question our integrity as people and professionals - accusing us of being 'dishonest' and 'scammers' - and telling us she won't stop bothering us until we pay up. She claims she is a property lawyer by profession and in the time it's taken to type this, she has text me three times asking for details of our solicitor so they can exchange registered court numbers (???).
We have this evening ceased communication with her, having outlined several times by text and email the nature of our original complaint (which continues to be ignored), and requested yet again that the handyman himself please get in touch with us as it is him with whom we have done business and wish to resolve this, not her. He continues to remain silent.
I'm anticipating worst case scenario: it goes to small claims court and it proceeds from there. Our word and evidence against hers/his. I am quite satisfied that their lack of organisation and evidence will not do them any favours, less so their intmidatory conduct of which we have kept a record.
My question is: if this woman is indeed legally trained/registered to practice, can she bypass the small claims court route and get us bullied into paying our way out of a situation we can't refuse?
Please advise if you can. I've got a dissertation to hand in 2 weeks today and this aint helping my writing!
[That didn't end up very brief, did it? Sorry!]
Sounds like bunkum. Ignore the dappy mare until you get something in writing.
Phone the police re the harassment, then call her bluff re the legal action.
If she's really a lawyer, she can't possibly expose herself to charges of harassment as it could be deemed as bringing the profession into disrepute.
Keep records of everything, diary of all calls and texts etc.
It's called harassment. What she is doing isn't legal.
**edit: beaten to it.
Yeah, it sounds like a load of hot air, but I don't know enough about this stuff to know how far this woman can push things... I don't need this stuff going on just before I'm about to register professionally myself!
Would have to guess the Property Lawyer bit may be a little lie. As above report to police as harassment also try trading standards or one of those scammer exposing tv shows
No sensible lawyer would do that. Head any communications "without prejudice " and ask her for her employers name saying you wish to contact the law society. Pay nothing more.
Since this woman got nothing to do with the original contract then it is none of her business.
Report to police regarding harassment, stalker, nutter etc.
She studied law? Which part of the law indicates that she could harass someone on quality control issue? Report her to the police and see how the law works on her.
D'0h! need to type quicker ...
Oh ya ... I am a police officer and I can shoot people dead (cowboy accent).
[i]She claims she is a property lawyer by profession and in the time it's taken to type this, she has text me three times asking for details of our solicitor so they can exchange registered court numbers [/i]
Awesome. Get a solicitor on the case. Get them to send their details. That'll shut her up.
[url= http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/findasolicitor/view=solsearch.law ]Search for a Solicitor Here[/url]
Should find out if she is delusional or just a nutter
I wouldn't get a solicitor involved at this stage as you will be charged for every communication she makes with them and then asked how you wish to proceed.
As she quite clearly sounds nuts, you will very quickly build up a legal bill that far exceeds whatever she's asking for.
I'm not legally trained but learnt the above from previous experiences.
I'd wait for something in writing but keep a log of all communications.
Perhaps a restraining order would force her hand one way or another.
Ta guys. The STW Collective makes sense once more. Yeah, not rushing into paying a solicitor at this stage - just spent a load of cash paying this wally! We shall continue to ignore all verbal comms, record all of hers, and keep an eye on the doormat...
Citizens Advice have some useful information on such situations - [url= http://http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_builders_and_home_improvements_e/consumer_problems_with_rogue_traders_e/builder_is_threatening_or_harassing_me.htm ]link here[/url]
Fairly standard bully tactics for one man bands...
You'd be amazed just how many people pay up money (they don't owe) to these Cowboys when people shout loudly enough at them and threaten them enough! Have you ever seen the TV programme "Rogue Traders"... All that stuff happens all too often sadly, it's much easier to bully a weak minded person out of some extra dosh than it is to go and find more jobs sometimes.
Anyway... The facts:
-You paid him in full for the quoted work
-You aren't altogether happy with the quality of the work
-You are being harrassed by his girlfriend every 5 minutes
-He is keeping quiet
The heresay:
-You owe him another £300... WTF For? If it wasn't quoted for, why would you owe it to him?
-She is a lawyer... REALLY? If she's actually a lawyer, she'll know the last thing in the world she needs is to be going to the small claims court for something that could possibly damage her reputation. I'm going to suggest either that she's not indeed a lawyer, or that if she is, she soon won't be practising that much!
IMHO, if she calls/texts once more, just call the police... Complain you're being harrassed. You might feel like you're wasting their time, but bearing in mind you do actually feel harrassed, and she's the one harrassing you for ZERO reason (in fact, it's attempted fraud), then the police will be a lot more interested in stopping her doing what she's doing than the fact you've called them. The Police regularly get called out by people for much more stupid and trivial things, they will take you seriously on this if they are at all good at their job.
Link above was not to find a solicitor but to check her out - it's a searchable record
My question is: if this woman is indeed legally trained/registered to practice, can she bypass the small claims court route and get us bullied into paying our way out of a situation we can't refuse?
99% certain this can't happen..
Indeed if she was a lawyer she'd know what she was doing was illegal, its harassment.
Just go straight to the police, she is breaking the law. she is harassing and intimidating you.
Go on, go now..stop reading this. go....
Firstly, the dispute over who owes who for any outstanding work is an entirely civil matter so don't worry about the Police ordering you to pay the builder any more money. They can't.
What this woman is doing is harassment. The police will view the content and volume of the messages and make a decision as to whether they are a deliberate attempt to alarm or distress you and your partner. Even if they cannot substantiate this, the Police can serve her with a harassment warning ordering her to cease contact with you. If she then persists she can be arrested and Magstrates will take a dim view on the fact that she persisted in her behaviour after a warning has been served.
Don't delete the messages and ring them now.
couple of issues ( sic) firstly you paid in full for work presumably after inspecting it therefore youd be hard pushed to legally force the guy to do more even remedial work unless it did not meet a building reg or legal requirement if its a pure quality issue tough..
secondly the handymans gurl friend has no relationship with you cease communication immediately with her. contact the lapd re harrassement if she texts one more time.
The girlfriend is probably some type of bunny boiler. She probably wears the trousers and the boyfriend is s*** scared of her! He probably left yours and either ended up in the pub or bookies. After blowing all the cash he ended up at home and because he couldn't come clean, he told her that you wouldn't pay! So now she starts harassing you.
Legally trained? Yeah right - that will be the reason she is asking for a court number! Call her bluff, which is exactly what she is trying with you. She is hoping her "legally trained" text message will force you into submisssion. Tell her you owe nothing and if she disputes that, she will have to see you in court. At the same time tell her you will be contacting the police about her continual harassment. That in itself may be enough to stop her texting you but if not then go to the police. Although I suspect if she is a bunny boiler the texts won't stop!
Keep all the texts as evidence and that will give the police something to work with.
Legally trained = temped once in a solicitors.
I feel sorry for you. having recently been harassed by one of those private parking enforcement muppets (I ignored all their letters and now they've given up). You really don't need this stress and there's nothing I can add to the very good advice above. She sounds like a nutter to be honest, can you change your phone number? Sending a few threatening texts is easy, has she actually written to you yet? A letter takes a bit more time and effort.
She has clearly decided that attack is the best form of defence and is hoping you will drop your claim. You need to decide if you've got the mental energy to carry on the dispute. What was the quality issue and does it really matter? How much will it cost to rectify his bad work?
And yes, my advice would be that you make an appointment and trot along to your local Police station to discuss it because she might already have "form" and this might be evidence they need to get her beheaded or hanged. It would be fantastic if he had given you a written quote and you had a copy of the invoice and a bank statement as evidence that you've paid in full.
You must think I'm too stupid to find you on this website!
Give me my money!
I am a lawyer!
😆
Call the fuzz, don't let her grind you down.
Legally trained = [s]temped once in a solicitors[/s] watched an episode of LA Law.
No such thing as registered court no in Scotland at least.
Is it criminal to pretend to be a solicitor?
Legally trained = [s]temped once in a solicitors watched an episode of LA Law.[/s]has a friend who once slept with someone claiming to be a lawyer
Actually I wonder if she could be charged with extortion?
The work:
If the builder has not completed or has completed substandard you are entitled to pursue him for compensation, in court if necessary. If you have to pay to put things right you can make a court claim for remedial costs as well. Is it worth it? Other than to get them to go away.
The GF:
Blatant attempt to skim more money out of you and you should report that. How many pensioners have they already done that to and got away with it?
I work in property and with property lawyers, everyone of them I know has their details on their firms website so a quick google would find them.
That said absolutely no chance she is a lawyer based on her conduct.
she probably read a website on how to be a lawyer in 10 minutes.
Definitely, please, please, please get the police involved regarding harrassment and possibly extortion? Log every call and text she makes. Take photos of your phone for records.
Hopefully she will get a criminal record and a restraining order.
Maybe cowboy builders have some advice or a file on them? http://www.channel5.com/shows/cowboy-builders (I am being serious)
taking of cowboy builders - trading standards should also be notified and is he a member of any professional organisations? Should be on his invoice/quote.
Legally this is a civil matter.
You contract is with the builder, not his mental girlfriend.
You will struggle to get remedial work .
As for any unrequested extras. Contract law is VERY clear here. Its called past consideration, ie asking for money for stuff you have already done if unsolicited is not ok:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_means_by_past_consideration
You've had lots of good advice 🙂 how about sending her a sexy text back? Invite her over for a romantic meal then show her the dodgy bits up close an personal? I think she just needs some frustrated angry sex so I reckon it'd work. You could get your girlfriend to film it then send it to cowboy Bill and say you paid the outstanding in kind?
I'm a practising solicitor (one day I might get it right) I have never heard of a registered court number . I have however heard of The Protection From Harassment Act.
I suggest you text her asking for her addresses so you enter into legal correspondence . If she provides it write a letter and text her (if she won't give an address just text)stating that you want no further contact from her that her texting you is harassment of you and your family which is a crime and any further contact from her other than via her solicitors will be reported to the police. In my experience the police do take harassment seriously but you will need to keep all texts and a diary of events to help them .
Also write to the handyman setting out the snags asking him to remedy them within 30 days failing which you will employ someone else to do so and take civil proceedings to recover the cost from him.
Take a note of every note and correspondence, with dates and times and what it said. Will aid weight to any harassment claim
Property Lawyer = prob works in a conveyancer.
You could see if you've got a legal helpline on your household insurance?
Request a written receipt for the work done. Threaten to report them to HMRC.
I've had these sort of things in the past due to renting out property.
E-mails with the words solicitor,court,you'll be sued and my friends a barrister.Solicitors will write a letter to you whether they believe their client or not.Same with debt collection agencies.
Never needed a solicitor yet.
If you think the work is not up to standard,and can prove it, send a letter to the builder saying its small claims court time if he doesn't come back and resolve it.I always had the small claims court paperwork ready to put in with an inflated amount for the claim.
It failed only once because i was dealing with an alcoholic who's brain was pickled and lived in a different state of reality.
And don't put a "wanted" in the classifieds for Bombers
Had problems similar to this with a plumber. All the advice above is good. Write a formal letter to tradesman, outlining issues with the work and giving a fixed timescale for him to repair/re-do. If not will engage another to do the work and sue him in the small claims court for the cost + your time and trouble. Write letter and text to girlfriend stating clearly that your contract was with the tradesman and that any issues he has with outstanding monies need to be communicated to you by a solicitor. Furthermore, you have taken legal advice and consider her approach of constant texting / messages to be harrassment and that if she doesn't cease immediately you will report her to the police. Make sure that you start any letter with the words "Without Prejudice". Sounds to me like they're trying it on with you and at the first hint of anything official back from you they'll back off and try to find some other poor sod. If you do receive one more communication direct from her then do report it to the police and make sure you have recorded/logged every communication. Good luck, let us know how you get on.
...my friends a barrister...
That's one way of coming across all pathetic.
Why not try 'my dad's bigger than your dad' or 'I'll set my dog on you' ?
I'm not a lawyer but I'd have thought that if she's demanding payment for services not provided then she could fall foul of blackmail under the Theft Act.
Theft Act 1978"21. Blackmail". —
(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief—
(a)that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and
(b)that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.
(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.
(3) A person guilty of blackmail shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.
Plus her constant texting could also be an offence under the Malicious Communications Act in addition to the harassment. Make sure you don't delete the text messages.
Keep a diary / record of everything
Make very clear, if the work is substandard take photos
Be sensible and straight and fair at every point, give the tradesman lots of opportunity to rectify it. Keep a record of this and appear to overly flexible / adaptable / reasonable
If you take a day off and he doesn't turn up record this as a cost
Do what Crankboy says on the other bits
Don't stress over it
If it goes to a small claims (which you could always start to get your money back btw) you'll be in a good place if you have all of the above
I didn't read all the above.
It seems to me that her phone tactic is beyond what's acceptable use. Can you contact your phone Co. and complain? That might get her blocked and gain you some peace.
or give us her mobile number so we can text back??
threatening someone with a text msg? wow! that must be so scary. First prize pan head if you ask me, probably too stupid to even know how to write a letter. Can she actually write and spell correctly or iz it in TxT Speeks? Ring up your mobile operator and ask them to block the number from your phone.
Kev
Why even waste your time with it? She's not a solicitor. Solicitors do stuff by email and letter, not by text message.
Just put your phone on silent and ignore her. Remember she's trying to provoke a response from you and the most frustrating thing in the world from her point of view is to be ignored. You can then have a laugh as her as the texts get even more desperate and threatening. She'll soon get fed up and give up after a few days.
Since this woman got nothing to do with the original contract then it is none of her business.
This. **** all to do with her, any more than it's his cousin's neighbour's dog walker's affair. I'd reply along the lines of "we have no legal contract with you and continued communication will be considered harassment and dealt with accordingly" and then cease all communication with her.
Document all contact she makes, everything, and if it does go legal then you've got a record of everything.
Just a quick post, I'm hurrying out the door, not read the entire thread...she may have breach the Telecommunications Act with regards malicious phone calls (not check legal wording there>. And even if that isn't the case, she's probably so stupid she wouldn't know. 😉
I doubt you'll see the handyman again, surely he'll be too embarrassed to return knowing that you've experienced what a crazy cow his Mrs is! Report him to hmrc for doing cash work, even if he put your job through the books i'll bet there's others that he hasnt! No help now but next time use a qualified tradesman that's a member of a trade organisation, like the niceic for sparkies.
mboy - Member
Fairly standard bully tactics for one man bands...You'd be amazed just how many people pay up money (they don't owe) to these Cowboys when people shout loudly enough at them and threaten them enough! Have you ever seen the TV programme "Rogue Traders"... All that stuff happens all too often sadly, it's much easier to bully a weak minded person out of some extra dosh than it is to go and find more jobs sometimes.
And as a tradesman, i see the other side with proffesional non paying customers, even having my haircut a few months ago, a chap came in and had a screaming match at the barber, about cutting his hair to short, the barber said it will grow and gave him his money back.
Some people dont want to pay for extra work, and while i dont know the story of the op, i would be very surpriosed if extra money wasnt mentioned on payment, and i am sure all reputasble tradesmen would come to some mutually agreeable discusion.
Instead of passing it on to some probably deluded girl freind, to the tradesman involved , DUMP HER, QUICK.
OH AND EVER THOUGHT OF PHONING THE CHAP INVOLVED, AND ASKING WHAT HAS HAPPENED, HE MAY WELL BE TOTALLY UNAWARE OF WHAT SHE IS DOING.
Grow a set and call him. Also call her and just tell her to do one.
Just send her "Xxx"s back on the texts or answer the calls and put phone down on side every time she rings if you fancy a bit of fun.
Otherwise contact the police re her, trading standards re him and get someone else to finish off the snagging.
Sorted.
This. **** all to do with her
She can represent him if he asks her though surely?
Anyway, she's no pro.
Sounds like tit for tat. You're unhappy with the work, and she's countering the complaint with a demand for extra costs?
Can I ask the nature of the work, and the grievance. I work with tradesmen you see, so I hear about disputes all the time. Yes there are cowboys out there, but it's very very common for a tradesman to get done. The two classics are, refusal to pay the agreed amount because the tradesman has finished ahead of time. (like they'll pay more if you drag it out) and the customer has no money.
Devils advocate and all that.
What she's doing though....never come across that.
What she is doing = criminal
Dispute between you and handyman = civil
Report criminal behaviour to police.
For civil disputes, try and get to a mutualy beneficial agreement, if talks break down, as a last resort, involve legal profession and go to (civil) court.
Do not buckle to totally transparant bullying.
trot along to your local Police station to discuss it because she might already have "form"
How many pensioners have they already done that to and got away with it?
My thoughts too. I would report her whatever else you do, and do other, perhaps more vulnerable people, a favour.
Presumably she is harassing you because she is expecting a favourable result, otherwise I doubt whether she would bother. This might well be based on past experience. I would feel it a duty to report her.
As an added extra, if you had agreed a contract to do a specified amount of work and it became apparent in the course of the work being undertaken that more work was required, it is the responsibility of the tradesman to highlight the additional work and gain agreement from you that a) it needs to be done and b) the additional cost BEFORE he starts doing it. To do it (or not) and then demand money after the event is not only unethical it is (to my knowledge) illegal. Certainly there is no way a court would find in his favour. To put it into context of this forum, when your lbs services your bike, they agree an initial cost and then they call you if they find the need for more work/additional parts. They are trying to extort money from you. Call the police
If she was in the legal profession you'd have thought she had prepared some legally-binding contracts for his customers to sign before starting work wouldn't you?...
It's actually illegal to walt it up pretending to be a lawyer!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/47/section/21
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/29/section/17
To the police!
Next time she tells you she is a lawyer, tell her you are a superhero and you will vanquish her by using your superhero powers.
didn't read very word above but - worth checking your household insurance - if your policy has 'legal costs cover' then give them a call - for advice and, if required, action.
Also worth a call to the Law Society - cant help but think they'd be interested to hear of someone apparently claiming to be a legal professional...?
Best thing is not to ignore it but to keep a file of all correspondence and threats
and do not reply only on the grounds to meet to go over both party issues.
And record the meeting/s and give both parties a copy.
And proceed from there.
I must say when doing small building works on our installations we always
photograph to show and communicate with the client before we continue with works.
And as a tradesman, i see the other side with proffesional non paying customers, even having my haircut a few months ago, a chap came in and had a screaming match at the barber, about cutting his hair to short, the barber said it will grow and gave him his money back.
Just for the record, wasn't suggesting all one man bands are crooked. Far from it BTW... Just that for some of the crooked ones, similar bully tactics are used quite commonly, though probably much less common the crazy ass GF getting involved!
Just put your phone on silent and ignore her. Remember she's trying to provoke a response from you and the most frustrating thing in the world from her point of view is to be ignored. You can then have a laugh as her as the texts get even more desperate and threatening. She'll soon get fed up and give up after a few days.
If she was just being a nuisance, I'd suggest this. But as she is blatantly trying to extort money out of the OP, then personally I think it's worth involving the Police. Don't make stuff up like some people on here have suggested, just report it for what it is, some crazy bird harrassing you for more money for a job her BF did badly, which is not only harrassment but attempted extortion.
If she is acting as his appointed agent would both 'Handyman' and 'Girlfriend' be at fault here?
Keep us posted about how this all pans out. It seems to me that this thread is full of a lot of very pertinent advice and TBH I personally think that you can sleep soundly in your bed, secure in the knowledge that she is not fully conversant with the law and that she may well be about to come a cropper.
Not South Wales I hope.
She's just trying to scare you go to the police than get your lawyer to send a letter to her
Ring her up offering payment, meet her in a quiet car park and when she gets in your car to pick up the money throw a pillowcase over her head, kidnap her, take her to an empty warehouse..tie her to a chair and set a load of staffordshire bull terriers on her then finish her off with a pair of bombers and dispose of the body in plastic bags hung on tree branches around your favourite country park....Then leave the bombers and a staffy in the handymans house and make a anonymous phone call to the police....
I am not a solicitor btw so this advice is not entirely legal.....
Ha, ha, these postings have made me feel loads better - ta! We are not chasing this tradesman to complete or make good his botched work at all. He has had several opportunities, and failed. We just want him and his yappy girlfriend to go away and leave us alone. And for her to stop pestering us for more money. We are quite happy to deal with the outstanding quality issues ourselves, as he has proved himself unable to.
Last text was yesterday morning. She said she was going to speak to her boyfriend about it, and that she will be back (in touch)...
She's a bunnyboiler ignore!
I would report her for all the reasons mentioned above she will be hard pushed to defend what she has done. Even if she only gets a telling off from plod it will hopefully stop her doing this to some unfortunate sap.
Mantastic: I cannot 'grow a set' as that's biologically impossible. I do however have a screw-on set which see plenty of use 😀
Old git: We paid this tradesman the full amount he quoted us, on the day of completion, and prior to us realising the extent of his shoddy workmanship which only began to manifest itself once we began using the shower (water running into cracked grout, tiles separarating from the wall etc) On that same day, his girlfriend text to say we owed a further £297 for 'extras' he offered to help us out with the preceding week, but never once mentioned would charge for. we were never given the opportunity to opt out of having another £300's worth of work done on our flat - our consent was hardly informed!
We have had several carpenters, electricians, handymen, plumbers, plasterers and fitters do work on our flat this past year, and all but three of them have been paid promptly and in full as per their quote or estimate, when work has been agreed by all parties, completed (not necessarily on time), and to the high standard of workmanship we requested on first contact. We do not pay for incompetence and poor self- and project management - who would? This particular tradesman continues to be uncontactable (he lost two phones while working for us), and has so far ignored our requests via his GF to get in touch so that we can resolve this issue with him.
We are renovating our flat, and have used upwards of ten various trades people in the past year to do work for us. Save but 2 of them, we have promptly paid the full quoted amount on completion of the work to the standard promised. On the 2 ocassions
Is she really his girlfriend?
She could be an ex trying to ruin his business and reputation. Or any member of his family or rival business that has it in for him.
If there was no sign or mention of her before the final work payment was made, I would contact the handyman and ask if he knows and supports what is going on.
I feel sorry for the guy if it turns out someone is trying to trash his business out of some kind of revenge kick.
No, she's always done the communicating for him, even when he's been driving around the neighbourhood trying to find our address on the first day of the job. 'Alarm bells, alarm bells!' I know...
I struggle with long sentences, however could it be that he disappeared for a few hours that he can't account to her for? So he tells her that the job was a little bigger and he did some extras, hence why he was missing? She is suspicious / pissed off so is pressing the issue to see what happens? Alternatively she could just be a bunny boiler.
so what's the latest?
Latest is... silence. Not a peep. So either he's told her to just drop it and shut the **** up (having long since lost interest in the job himself), or she's masterminding her next move.
Will deffo keep y'all posted as to developments as they happen. If I had the time and energy (the dissertation aint gonna write itself, and the new job not be handed to me on a plate), we'd go after her for harrassment, attempted extortion, doing cash work, fraud, etc just for fun. Im my mind's eye I certainly am!
I seriously doubt there is any "masterminding" going on.