[Closed] Being asked to work whilst signed off on a sicknote...

refuse to work.

our insurance didn't cover anyone who had a current sick note working and that was an office with no liftign at all.

tell them that your sick and that it's in everyone's short and long term interests for you to rest and recover.

AFAIK if you are signed off you are not allowed to work. Your bosses insurance won't cover if anything happens to you whilst at work when supposed to be on the sick.

You are signed off, you can't work. It is not unreasonable not to work. Especially for something as serious as this, it's not like you gotten signed off with a touch of manflu is it.

Ah yes, insurance... I know that I'm not covered to drive, didn't realise that would apply that to work too.

I also understand the long term benefit of having the op. Especially seen as in May we'll be short staffed even when I am back at work as everyone has taken holidays in May.

I don't think the boss understands it though

I know it is not unreasonable to refuse, just wondering what the boss could do about it & how much of a pain in the ass he could be

Bob? He say no!

[img] [/img]

You are off work. end of. There is nothing he can legally do if you are signed off.

And another thing, you're entilted to a Written contract and technically should have one, and may be surprised as to find you do you've just never seen it as its law.

Had that same op years ago. Don't worry about work. Worry about not doing too much too soon. As soon as you can, get the skin mobile. You really don't want any adhesions between skin and muscle.

If an employee has been signed off work by his or her doctor for a particular period can the employer allow the employee to return before the end of that period?

When an employer is in possession of a medical certificate that states that the employee is not fit for work, the employer should not allow him or her to return to work before the expiry of the period covered by the certificate without checking the position further.

There is no option on a medical certificate for a GP to advise that the employee is "fit for work", and it is not necessary for an employee to be "signed back" to work by a doctor. However, if an employer is unsure whether or not it would be appropriate for the employee to return, it could ask for confirmation from a medical practitioner that the employee is fit and well enough to attend work, perhaps on light duties. If the employee wishes to return to work before the expiry of the medical certificate, he or she could return to his or her GP who may provide a certificate indicating that the employee "may be fit for work" with certain adjustments to the employee's duties, hours or workplace. [b]There is a risk to an employer in allowing an employee back to work when he or she is signed off as not fit for work: if the employee finds that his or her condition has worsened as a result of the early return to work whilst certificated as unfit, this could result in a personal injury claim against the employer.[/b]

And don't forget that you said that you are not even well enough to take the sick note in to work so how would you get yourself to there to work.

Legally you're covered. Your boss could make life difficult for you when you do return if he/she is of that bent.

For personal security I would keep a written record of events and any communications, whether verbal or written until I was satisfied that your boss was not victimising you after you return to work.

But then I am paranoid.

As others have said, a 'sick note' doesn't mean you don't have to go to work if you don't want, it's an instruction that you [i]cannot [/i]go to work even if you wanted to.

Your communication with your boss should be "I'm signed off by a doctor," and that's it. No ifs, buts, light duties, alternate Tuesdays for a couple of hours. [i]You are not allowed to work.[/i]

I beleive your employer is entitled to ask for a sick note after 7 days in order to pay SSP?

Isn't not having to work when you are recovering from an operation the kind of worker's rights the Tories want to get rid of? Surely it's holding our country back that we don't work through the pain barrier?

Cheers for all the support.

My Dad has just had his second op. He's very fit a well but from what he say's, don't even expect to be back a work in a fortnight never mind doing anything like lifting.

Offer to go in for light duties if he can arrange a taxi and if he can extend work insurance - i.e. look willing.

It would therefore be unlikely that he will want you to come in, but you look good for offering.

I went into work on the tuesday (monday was bank holliday) after having my broken arm opperated on the thursday. Didn't give my 'sick' note to my boss, in reality I was useless and couldn't work for the first week as I was too fogged up with painkilers and the anasthetic wearing off.

I think you boss is taking the piss. Not sure if he is the owner or just the manager but either way he is being very unprofessional. He knew you were having surgery and would require time off, but has not made any arrangements for your cover. His bad management IMO

Owner/manager/boss... all of the above.

Only 3 full time employees. Owner, myself and one other employee are full time & 2 Saturday only staff (who cannot cover my absence).

Anyway, I replied to his text asking if I could work. I stated the fact that my surgeon has signed me off until next Tuesday.

No response (as yet) from my employer.

I ended up getting myself signed back on so I could return to work early, on condition of shorter hours and a change in working practice- tbh being off work was doing my head in. But working while signed off was not an option.

Not that impressed with your boss, tbh, but he'll be in a tricky situation so it's probably forgivable if not acceptable. Was it a planned surgery?

3 weeks ago I went to the GP

2 weeks ago I saw the surgeon

1 week ago I had the op

So yes, it was planned.

Boss had been moaning/taking the piss whenever I had to sit down to pop the hernia back in, which was not a very regular occurrence, maybe 3 times in the last year

I now suspect he'll be moaning because I'm having time off

Can't win eh?!?

There is no such thing as a sick note anymore it's a fitness for work, it'll depend which part is signed filled in to what you employer ask you to do.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Sicknessabsence/DG_187161

So yes you may be able to go to work but necessarily do your normal duties.

You did check what part was filled in yeah?

Exactly, it was all planned. The boss should either be in the shop or decide to close it for the day if the reason he can't be there is more important. Simples ...

[b]Drac[/b] I did check which part is filled in & it's not the big box in the middle in which you can tick certain boxes to enable phased return to work/amended duties etc

"I advise you that: you are not fit for work (box ticked) from the date of the op, with the reason being 'post operatively' "

Then in that case only way they can is if they get another Dr to asses you, which he hasn't done so nope he can't ask you to come in.

The boss should either be in the shop or decide to close it for the day if the reason he can't be there is more important.

Or used the last couple of weeks to hire help temporarily.

Seriously, your boss's lack of management isn't your problem, and the last thing you need when you're convalescing is stress and pressure. Can't blame him for an innocent request for information ("can you work / when will you be back?") but any more than that would feel like harassment I'd think.

Your 'boss' ia an amateur pure and simple, he should know you are unable to work. What if something happened at work, an accident for example? You would also be considered foolish and irresponsible if you went to work as well.

A manager also has a "duty of case responsibility" for their employees. I would sue the shit just for asking me to come back to work 😆

But seriously I agree with Cougar's comments above, I was just giving a different perspective on the problem. A typical example of a a manager's excuse to shift blame and guilt on to their staff to cover their own failings.

Have you actually spoken to your boss or is this all by text ?
Pick the phone up and have a conversation, you never know, it might help.

The boss contacted me by text 6 days after my op (Monday): 'How's it going, when are you coming back to work?'

My reply was 'I am sore and bruised, I'm seeing the surgeon tomorrow, I'll let you know'

Boss text's me today (Tuesday), with the 'can you come in at 8.30 tomorrow' text

I had told him that I would be off for at least a week & I'd let him know when I'd be back, which I did when I had the info

Maybe he should pick up the phone to see how I'm doing, rather than me having to worry about it, I have enough on my plate at the mo (death in the family recently, funeral on Friday)

You should be in communication (text really isn't good enough) so that your boss is in full receipt of the facts. Following that, if your are signed off work, no, he can't get you to come in.
I'd really, really suggest you talk

Oh, and with your employer being in your profile, would suggest this is a stupid place to be asking for this kind of help!

as a manager I have refused to let people come back in when they are signed off. I owe a duty of care to.the sick person, their colleagues and my employer to not put any of them at risk because of someone's health.

A phone call will take 5 minutes tops. Call your boss, explain that as you have said you have been told to not work for 2 weeks and that actually you are really quite unable to work. Offer, perhaps if you feel like it and it is feasible, to do some light duties from home ?
Don't apologise as it isn't your fault and to be fair to your boss if his expectation, set by you, was you would off for a week then he would be planning around that ? He will know slightly less about your recovery process than you so he would be guessing if it was going to be more than a week. I understand you are probably sore and have other things going on but communication really is the key here.

It sounds to me your Boss has put himself under undue pressure by not covering this type of eventuality, I mean why just employ 2 people when he could have made it easier by having you full time and two part timers that could step up to full time for holidays and sick etc, not your issue these things happen, give him a call and explain the situation or MTFU and get on that till!!! (joke )
(Ex Retail Store Manager here)

He cannot make you work plus when you get back you should be having a return to work interview that asks you questions like are you well enough to take on your normal duties

To me it sounds like your boss doesn't even know you've been signed off yet, just a text from you saying you don't think you'll be fit for work
The post title suggests that you've sent him a sick note but despite of it he's asked you to work but reading on it seems as though all he's had is a vague text from you saying you'll be off and will let him know when you're fit again.
That's not really good enough, you could have posted it to him
After 7 days, you should be back in work or presented him with a sick note

Talk to your boss. See how you feel after a week but agree NO lifting/bending or stretching. Just till work. If hes unreasonable find a different job, its your health. A particular job is a moment in time whereas you have to live with you health..

You can sit on your arse in a shop as easily as you can sit on your arse at home. Talk to your boss and see if you can work something out. Small business, there has to be some give and take.

I think there is some misinformation above.

I think it is reasonable for your employer to discuss working options with you. I am not saying that if you are ill or recovering from an operation that you should be going into work however it may be mutually conveneient for you to do light duties etc, as long as this does not hamper your health or recovery.
A member of my team had an operation on his foot which meant he couldnt easily get into the office. Other than this he was fine so after a week or two of recovery I asked him to work from home. He was happy to do it and I was happy to give him full pay for the period.

An ex colleague had to have a hysterectomy in her mid 30s. Pretty grim. The whole experience was made far worse by our employer then harrassing her back to work, including sending its own doctors round to assess her fitness for work.

One of the UK's largest law firms, BTW.

(Not surprising she now works elsewhere)

Ourman' slightly OT: theres an accountancy firm where my friend used to work.

Every day they used to announce 'this weeks leavers are' and everyone was whipped. Her boss, who had worked for the company for almost 40yrs was sacked a really trivial reason and when it was her turn she came in one morning to find all her drawers emptied/paperwork scattered everywhere. She quit and never went back.

From your last post the boss seems is being a bit cheeky - or maybe he didn't get or understand the info

I'd just reply back saying you can't come in as the surgeon said you can't work for X amount of time - I'd add it that it's a bit of a pain to imply you'd be happy to come back but can't.

Keep it all friendly and don't worry about it. As long as you keep them updated and don't read anything into text messages (as you may well be wrong) all will be well.

The whole experience was made far worse by our employer then harrassing her back to work, including sending its own doctors round to assess her fitness for work.

Its not harrasment to ask employees to see independent doctors or for HR to make appointments to come to an employees home.

The acts themselves are not harrasment event though you say they are. They need to be handled sensibly and sensitively however I have been aware of employees taking long periods off and spending the time in the pub/shopping/biking etc. I would support a visit from a doctor on these grounds.

The acts themselves are not harrasment event though you say they are.

I understand the technical difference.

But, if you claim to be a "great place to work", don't then pressurise your unwell workforce back to work simply because of the fees they generate. It's indicative of the poor attitude that so may law firms have to their employees.

As it was, the firm lost out - she left straight into the welcoming arms of a rival.

EDIT: I ought to point out that, lawyers being the driven professionals we are (especially working in those type of environments), can usually be trusted not to take the p-ss. Unlike the sort of proles you clearly employ.

I understand the technical difference.

Then try harder as technical diferences are your stock in trade !

lawyers being the driven professionals we are (especially working in those type of environments), can usually be trusted not to take the p-ss

However

It's indicative of the poor attitude that so may law firms have to their employees.

So which is it? Is your firm not headed up by lawyers? Maybe you should bring this up in your firm. It mine was treating people unfairly I would.

Also

I said

however I have been aware of employees taking long periods off and spending the time in the pub/shopping/biking etc. I would support a visit from a doctor on these grounds.

The key phrase here is "I have been aware" so your reference to the "proles" I employ is incorrect on factual grounds. Are you an advocate?

Just a couple of things to iron out!

Before my operation I informed my employer that I would be off work for at least a week, probably two & that there would be no lifting for about 6 weeks

6 days into the 1st week my employer contacted me via text and asked when I would be coming back to work

I replied saying I will find out the next day after I had spoken to the surgeon

My employer contacted me the next day by text to ask if I could come to work on the next day

I replied that I was signed off as not fit to work by my surgeon

I managed to get a lift from my Aunt today so I went to work to hand in my 'not fit to work' note. No boss in the shop. But one of the Saturday lads was in the shop, I don't know how long he'll be there or how long he'd been there. Just copied the not fit to work note on the photocopier, apologised to the lads for being off sick and left.