You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
A thread I never wanted to start. 🙁 When I met and moved in with Mrs Pondo, we managed to keep hold of my one bed maisonette and we rent it out, not so much as an earner as the rent doesn't pay much more than the mortgage, but with an eye to the future. The last tenants have left it a mess - they jerry-built a massive porch, left the place filthy, garden a tip, big holes in walls, burn mark on carpet, hideous (and piss-poor quality!) wallpaper, a child's scribbled on the walls, etc etc. That's all being put right, but the deposit will not cover all of it, there's about £300 we've spent it won't cover, we've put about 48 hours into repairing it so far (almost £430 at minimum wage rates), and they skipped out a month early on a fixed term contract and owe us a month's rent. I'm not by nature a vindictive person, but it feels like a sizeable sum of money we're now short of, knocking on 1500 quid - does anyone know much about pursuing these kind of sums through the small claims courts? Does it cost much to make a claim? They skipped off without leaving a forwarding address, I presume we'll need to know where they've moved to, is that possible to find out?
I don’t want to sound horrible, and this is in no way personal.
But this is what landlord insurance is for and / or part of being a scum landlord. 😉
For every good tenant there will be a bad one. Other people don’t treat your property as if it were their own.
Small claims court is the lowest cost option, but unfortunately even if you manage to get them to court and find in your favour, you’ll never see the money anyway.
Sorry. It’s shitty.
You'll not see that money again, even if you spend the effort tracking them down. Scumbags.
Rent it through an agency next time IMO (or at least use them as a vetting service if you want to manage yourself), insist on rent guarantors - so you won't lose out on the last month again (and ensure the deposit is in a proper tenancy deposit scheme).
Proper contract that tells them up-front that they're not allowed to make any modifications. I ban wallpapering but allow painting (with the proviso that if it's a bold colour then they're responsible for putting it back to neutral before they leave).
No modifications. Period. They're responsible for maintenance and upkeep of the garden. Agency must make 12 monthly visits to ensure things are OK.
In return if there are any problems they get resolved immediately.
As for your current dilemma. I think you've got little hope of recovering cash but that's possibly my inexperience - life is too short to run around after arseholes, which is why I tie them in financially up-front. If they've skipped out without notice and not forwarded an address and you've no guarantor then it's going to be a hard process tracking them down and you'll have to be persistent (and potentially end up with legal fees).
You'd have to obtain a CCJ against them and then move on from there. But for me, just take it on the chin and get your property back on the market asap, and ensure you're covered for this eventuality up-front.
I think you are probably into the risk part of being a landlord. I e. This is one of the risks you run and you have been unlucky. Does go to show it's not risk free easy money by any stretch. Sorry.
Yes just move on, at least the tenants did not stay and refuse to pay.
're your bills keep all receipts and post a tax loss, you can carry it forward against next years profit. You cannot bill your time but all those tools you had to buy to wholly and exclusively repair the flat as a result of the tenant, you can offset too.
The void costs add up, council tax, repairs, insurance, they are all allowable.
Ianaa....so can't advise but plenty of tips on landlordzone.
Next time get a guarantor, you could have reclaimed all your costs against them.
Sounds like they were shitty tenants, I really don’t understand how people can do this to other peoples property and just leave. Heard lots of stories like that
‘Rent barely pays more than the mortgage’ as someone who spent ten years trapped in the rental market, paying more than a mortgage and getting nothing for it, simply because I came out of a poor (by European standards anyway) family not a rich one I struggle to empathise with that bit and ‘losing’ £1500 to be honest. I’m not sure you’ve got the shittier end of the deal there
The above is not aimed at you personally, I obviously don’t blame you for the current housing market situation or my parent’s lack of wealth! Just a reminder to get some perspective on things
‘Rent barely pays more than the mortgage’ as someone who spent ten years trapped in the rental market, paying more than a mortgage and getting nothing for it, simply because I came out of a poor (by European standards anyway) family not a rich one I struggle to empathise with that bit and ‘losing’ £1500 to be honest. I’m not sure you’ve got the shittier end of the deal there
This, surely they have paid off more than £1500 in capital of the mortgage in their time.
You have still profited from them.
Does sound pretty rubbish but as bad tenants go you've got off reasonably lightly. They can cost tens of thousands and be a huge pain in time and stress. I doubt you'll get the money back so try and move on. Some of your costs will be tax deductible. You'll also be able to get a new, better tenant in 1 month earlier to cover the rent loss.
Also if you are barely covering your costs I wouldn't add an agent to deal.
I fear that level of cost isn't worth pursuing. Maybe mention it if their next landlord asks for references.
For every poor tenant there's at least a couple of good ones. It's not easy money, despite what the haters think, and it's partly why a lot of "accidental" landlords like yourselves have sold up in the last few years.
As others have said, pretty much nothing you can do but suck it up. Frustrating and unfair but best to just let it go.
Get it rented again, do all you can to get decent tenants - references, guarantors, deposit, set the rent a little lower than market value to get a good choice of tenant and hopefully they will know they are onto a good thing, landlord insurance, decent tenancy agreement. Once they are in, do property checks reasonably regularly at least at first. Then all you can do is hope for the best.
Oh and in my opinion, there's no point in putting any faith in agents. All they want to do is get your property let. They do drive-by property checks, if at all, and basically don't give a damn!
Edited to say, if your property is suitable, think about accepting pets. People with pets really struggle to find a place to live and will often look after your property and stay longer. You've got to weigh up the damage a pet might do, but often they don't, so it's definitely worth thinking about.
This, surely they have paid off more than £1500 in capital of the mortgage in their time.
You have still profited from them.
Strongly disagree with this statement.
You don't mention when you last changed carpets and redecorated etc?
@ThePilot I believe some recent changes in law mean you have to accept tenants with pets now, or at least I suppose you can't give that as a reason for not accepting a tenant 🙂
^^^^^
Oh, that's good news. Not sure how effective it will actually be but every little helps as they say 🙂
Some people are just rubbish. Sounds like your tenants were. Try not to let them drag you down to their level, but learn from the experience. And try not make all future tenants lives a misery because you once had a rubbish tenant.
We evicted a tenant who owed us 1000s, but she had lost her job, had no money and we'd just made her homeless, so pointless trying to chase the debt, so we never persued it.
It might take a little while, but I think it will make a difference, my understanding is the model tenancy agreement is used in court as a base when deciding if other agremements are fair, you have to justify where you've varied it, and if you can't, the court rules based on the model not on the agreement you actually signed. It's also the agreement that is used in cases where a tenant never signed one, or the old one expired.
Have they a facebook page you can leave a scathing review on ?. Public naming and shaming seems to work well these days
Is leaving reviews for individuals a thing now?
Is leaving reviews for individuals a thing now?
A valid and interesting question. Kept brief, perhaps to the detriment of syntax. Overall well written. Recommended. 7/10
Interesting stuff, thanks all - doesn't sound terribly hopeful, does it? 🙁 To address a few of the points made, it's let through an agent, and the contract has specific clauses advising them that the property must be left as it was found, to check with us before making changes (we don't mind them decorating, just leave it as they found it so we don't have to try and let it with some kind of art nouveau decoration going on!) and specifically that there shouldn't be any wallpapering (been there before... 🙁 ). Must look into getting a guarantor...
The next tenants seem really nice, young couple - despite the state the flat was left in, we've had tons of interest, so I would think we're slightly below market rate, but haven't yet raised the rent with a sitting tenant, don't particularly intend to unless inflation goes through the roof.
You don’t mention when you last changed carpets and redecorated etc?
It had been let freshly decorated when they moved in three years ago (we expect to have to do that), carpets replaced in living room and hall maybe a year before that? Carpet in the bedroom probably another 18 months older - not sure what the relevance is, whether newer carpets are iron-proof or tenants are allowed to singe older carpets? 🙂
‘Rent barely pays more than the mortgage’ as someone who spent ten years trapped in the rental market, paying more than a mortgage and getting nothing for it, simply because I came out of a poor (by European standards anyway) family not a rich one I struggle to empathise with that bit and ‘losing’ £1500 to be honest. I’m not sure you’ve got the shittier end of the deal there
I hear you - my parents never owned a home or had money, the flat is the one I bought when they passed and I had to move out of the house they rented, I have every sympathy for people looking to get out of renting, and it was only the slack regulation of the pre-2008 market that allowed me to do it, I'd have had no chance if I were in the same situation with today's market. That £1500 I've lost is still a chunk of money to me, though, I'd rather have it than not have it!
Have they a facebook page you can leave a scathing review on ?. Public naming and shaming seems to work well these days
Heh! I did have a quick look but couldn't see them - there was post for two other people as well as the tenants last time I was there, maybe I'll have a browse for them too. Must have been a squeeze, 4 adults and a child in a 1 bed flat!
That £1500 I’ve lost is still a chunk of money to me, though
Of course, and I’ll say it again, my comment wasn’t personal to you, ‘accidental landlord’ is a good term used above
Had you started the post with ‘in one of my 16 slum-style flats’ the response may have been different 😬
My mother rents and will be completely effed if she manages to reach retirement age. She has a terrible medical condition and works long shifts dealing with difficult, at times violent young adults with severe learning disabilities. How someone can have to do that and not be paid enough to own a roof to put over their head is absolutely appalling. Meanwhile middle class people buy up houses to increase their property portfolio and make sure their kids get a better start than everyone else. Not that those people are at fault, of course that’s what they want! It’s the allowing it to happen that is out of order
In case you can’t tell it’s something I’m on the fence about 😂
I hear you, dude - something's wrong somewhere. 🙁
It’s the allowing it to happen that is out of order
Its the fact that 40 years of governments - including 13 Labour years or whatever it was - have failed to provide adequate, affordable, quality secure housing for the significant number of the population who need it.
It's the biggest single factor that could change UK society for the better in the next generation, but none of the short term political bastards has the balls to invest now to see the longer term savings 10-20 years down the line.
On the other side of the argument I lived next to a guy with 27 kids, not all in the same house but a good dozen of them and their kids in the 4 bedroom house. It was a privately owned place 'rented' out through the council to him and the clan
They (the ones I met) were utter scumbags and the place was a tip on the outside, the 7ish year old daughter would regularly run around the road at 1AM calling her Dad a fat c*** (spoiler alert: he was).
When they moved out (council got them a bigger house) contractors started turning up and they had to completely gut the house. I have no idea whether the council covers that but I can imagine if that house belonged to someone with a mortgage on it with no other financial backup that could have gone very wrong. It was about a year before it was ready to be rented out again
That is poor showing from your tenants. I’d always want a guarantor.
You don’t mention when you last changed carpets and redecorated etc?
It had been let freshly decorated when they moved in three years ago (we expect to have to do that), carpets replaced in living room and hall maybe a year before that? Carpet in the bedroom probably another 18 months older – not sure what the relevance is, whether newer carpets are iron-proof or tenants are allowed to singe older carpets? 🙂
There are recommended maximum duration that a re-carpet or decoration should be done zone dependent, I think it's an ARLA thing can't remember but it's worth considering if you did decide it wasn't fair you have to replace etc...
I only consider it not fair because they put an iron-shaped burn mark in the corner, then parked a wooden sideboard on top of it. Fair wear and tear is fair wear and tear, but that was taking the proverbial. Not, however, the worst thing they did! 🙂
I asked the letting agent about guarantors - the new tenants have no credit issues and exceed the income requirements so don't need one. Can I insist anyway...?
You can insist but if I were the prospective tenant that would discourage me from renting from you.
Can you ask for a higher deposit? I had to give extra on my first place on the basis that we were 3x 18-21 year old males. I thought it was pretty unfair at the time but now see the reasoning 😂
Can you ask for a higher deposit?
Under the Tenant Fees Act 2019, deposits are capped at 5 weeks rent, or 6 weeks if annual rent exceeds £50k
does anyone know much about pursuing these kind of sums through the small claims courts?
I'm sorry to hear this all. I've been there. I'm £6.6k out of pocket.
My experience in Scotland:
We had to wait to serve eviction in papers for three months. Add in anothe two months for them to faff and fuss. Book the Sherrif's Men (Bailiffs), turn up early one morning to find they left the day before, knowing what was coming knocking.
Place was wrecked, rubbish everywhere, carpets and furniture so filthy they needed throwing.
I'm now 6 months rent down, full redocorate, full carpets, new furniture. And I can't advertise or let it while I get that all done.
Tenants the day after call the council landlord overseeing people and tell them I'm letting the place to the 6 families and the place is full of rubbish. I get summoned to show the council officers the place. I'm facing upto £10k fine if paperwork or flat isn't up to standard. That feels pretty shitty. Thankfully the council saw the skip filling up, the (thankfully left behind in the meter cupboard) tenant pack, the emails and texts and believed I'm a good landlord.
We go to Sherrif's court on small claims. This took three months.
In court the tenant lied through his teeth. Having read my evidence folder and heard from me, the Sherrif was having none of it and gave tenant a right ear bending.
I'm just over £6k owed, minus £550 deposit.
We were forced to go and make arrangements for repayment there and then in an ante-room of the court. £10 a week...ffs. We can't take any property because a TV is a human right, laptop, van etc is all his business.
Have a guess what - the first month's payment arrives. The court have asked me to report which I do that that payments have started.
I've never seen anything beyond that first payment.
I could have paid more Sheffiffs men and court fee to try and enforce. To what purpose though? I can't force money out of them.
In the meantime, new tenants move in to the redecorated flat and public hallway. I had three lots of superglued locks and graffiti engraved on the front door of the flat (the old tenants initials...) Causing another few bills and new tenants to move out after the 6 months minimum.
As this all happened, the tenant, partner and baby now become 'homeless'. Local housing association puts them in one of the brand new flats in the middle of Aberfeldy. They get a grant to furnish it (because they had nothing, having smashed up what little they had and left it piled up in my flat a month earlier).
6 months later a friend in Aberfeldy reports the tenant and family just enjoyed a fortnight in the sun and he's bought a shiny car.
Meanwhile I spend all my savings fixing up the flat, and family_oab enjoy a house swap with friends an hour up the road for our holidays.
Never be a landlord. The cards are stacked against you unless you want to go illegal.
Never deal with Jamie Bell fencing in Aberfeldy either.
Anyone want to buy a three bed flat in Aberfeldy with mountain views and nice neighbours? It's never failed to let. £130k. Ono.
That sucks @Matt_outandabout
@Pondo - if it's let through an agent you want to know why there wasn't a guarantor in the first place tbpfh.
I'd insist on one - any reasonable tenant won't give a monkeys. If the agent says "the landlord has been burned by a bad tenant skipping out, so now insists that a guarantor is made available for that eventuality. It's not *you* of course, we expect things to go swimmingly with you".
If a tenant gets put off by that 1) alarm bells and 2) there's plenty more tenants who will see both sides of the equation.
The other thing is - your agents are sh1t. You want photographic evidence of the inside of the house when they do their annual checks - they should email you the photos (no need for a formally written report - but photos taken on a phone are so easy) and give you a run-down of any problems that may need looking at.
They've clearly failed you - so I'd be going to them with a grievance since you're paying them for this service.
I’d insist on one – any reasonable tenant won’t give a monkeys.
I certainly would. And I'm a reasonable person not an irresponsible child. I manage my own finances. Who would want to guarantor me even if I was shameless enough to ask? I mean, what's in it for them? Or is this an assumption that all renters are ****less young people from wealthy families.
Another thing that needs banning.
I certainly would. And I’m a reasonable person not an irresponsible child.
I would you dispute that you're a reasonable person - or you'd look at it from the landlord's perspective as well as your own.
It's no skin off your nose to give a guarantor that you're never going to use - and you give your landlord - that doesn't know you from adam and has potentially been burned by bad tenants before - a bit of peace of mind and confidence.
If you object to something so harmless before you even enter into a tenancy agreement I don't want you anywhere near my property. I'm already imagining the arguments in circumstances that are sort of 50-50 where both a landlord and tenant might reasonably come to an arrangement.
If you consider giving a landlord peace of mind a step too far then you don't get considered as one of my tenants tbpfh.
Who would want to guarantor me even if I was shameless enough to ask? I mean, what’s in it for them?
If you haven't got a long list of mates or family who'd go "of course I'll be your guarantor, I trust you, no biggie" - without having to get something out of it, then that's alarm-o-matic.
If your friends and family don't trust you not to skip out on rent then I certainly don't.
Not everyone has a guarantor available. I see both sides as I am a landlord and have been a tennant, at the same time and independently. I am not sure there is an easy solution or that there even is one. What I have done is spoken to previous landlord to get a reference from them. Obviously people can fake this but it's not bad method.
I know many people don't like landlords but and there are plenty of bad ones but it's not easy money and has considerable risks involved.
I don't see why not @TheBrick. I've been a tenant, am a landlord. I can't forsee circumstances where, if you're trustworthy, you haven't a single friend or family who'll say "yeah, I'll be your guarantor".
Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's an edge case where a completely trustworthy and solvent person doesn't have a single person to vouch for them (which is all being a guarantor really is).
But in general? No guarantor, no entry. Sorry. I've been burned myself and watched a friend get *very* badly burned by trying to help someone.
I'm simply not rich enough to soak up the possibility of bad tenants without taking concrete action to de-risk my own situation.
I’m simply not rich enough to soak up the possibility of bad tenants without taking concrete action to de-risk my own situation.
Sell the property then
I've been in a similar position with £6k damage.
We had a guarantor on the contract, threatened small claims action and got paid in full.
Despite what others have said, threatening and being prepared to go through with legal action, can work.
I don’t see why not @TheBrick. I’ve been a tenant, am a landlord. I can’t forsee circumstances where, if you’re trustworthy, you haven’t a single friend or family who’ll say “yeah, I’ll be your guarantor”
I am afraid to say there are many situations. People don't all live a in well connected bubble of comfortable mates.
On top of that offering to guarantee someone is a big ask, It's massive legal commitment. If I had a trustworthy mate and I was only just making my own rent or mortgage and living expenses it's a big risk, it's a big risk even with a a bit of a buffer that I have. Taking on the responsibility for your mate who may loose their job though no fault of their own could leave you in the shit. I'd let this hypothetical mate crash round, I'd open-ended loan him what I could afford to lose but garaurentee their rent I am not sure.
It's not like spotting a mate a £100 quid as he / she is broke. There are countless stories of best mates doing one when push comes to shove on money as if they are ****ed enough they can't make rent they will be desperate and desperate people do desperate things. I'd rather help them out should the situation arise as much as I can at the time than be a guarantor for some situation arising and I don't know what my position will be away the time.
I don’t see why not @TheBrick. I’ve been a tenant, am a landlord. I can’t forsee circumstances where, if you’re trustworthy, you haven’t a single friend or family who’ll say “yeah, I’ll be your guarantor”
Really? What planet do you live on?
So you think that everyone has mates, and those mates are always in a financial position to spot a few grand in case they can’t pay their rent?
Also, it's not just about the tenant being trustworthy. If the landlord screws the tenant then by extension the guarantor has a good chance of also getting screwed.
if you’re trustworthy, you haven’t a single friend or family who’ll say “yeah, I’ll be your guarantor”
Lol, I've got many friends that would vouch for me. The point is - I wouldn't bloody ask them. Mainly because it's a big ask as others have pointed out. But also, it's demeaning for any tenant to have to do this. Not to mention some people might not have friends and family for all types of reasons. Also, if you look at it from the person being asked point of view; landlords in general don't exactly have the most upstanding reputation. If a mate asked me I'd be worried about being harangued for cash by some suspicious little grubby steptoe type, or downright dodgy criminal sort. Maybe if it was all above board and more regulated... I understand what you're saying regarding peace of mind, but surely this is what insurance and good vetting is for? Either that or leave the landlording to the councils and housing association and get a job 😉
But anyway, I'm not arguing against you demanding a guarantor, more the practise in general.
OK, they're fair points. But I'd still always insist. Because once bitten twice shy.
It's only last resort where I'd personally ask a guarantor to cover. As a reasonable human you'd do your best to work it out with your tenants and help them. At the end of the day people need a roof over their heads and you're a crappy human if you don't try and help.
Yep, there are bad landlords out there. There are bad tenants too. But there's a limit to financial exposure and ultimately you're personally responsible for your own circumstances.
I'd never skank out on a debt. But coming from a poor single (alcoholic) parent family in a crap part of blighty I'm no mug either. I've worked hard for what I've got (just like most people) but there's a limit to loss exposure I'm prepared to accept.
Couple of grand? Yeah, I can take it on the chin. Won't like it, but will (and have). But people are fools if they leave themselves wide open to the sort of losses caused by either negligence or malicious damage by a selfish idiot.
We're all living and working under the same system, trying to get by. We don't have to agree with it (and many of us vote against our own selfish interest) - but reality is what it is.
Suck it up I'm afraid.
Itll cost more in chasing.
I rent a house out I've been lucky with Tennants. If it got trashed I know the risks. Its crap but it is what it I'd.
But as an aside I'm fed up of the virtuous hand wringing that we get on here for renting a house out....
If it bothers you that much dont book a holiday cottage as that's screwed a local over, don't buy anything online etc...
@duncancallum your attitude seems spot on in that you recognise the risks and appreciate that you do have good tenants. It's pretty reasonable that folk don't have a lot of time for landlords who are happy to hang onto a property for the benefits they're getting (rent, convenience of not selling, capital appreciation) but piss and moan when the fairly obvious risks are realised.
It's the head on collision of allowing small landlords / investors to accrue these benefits, but also the fact that many small landlords can't take the losses (both emotionally and financially) when it goes a bit wrong. The fragmentation also helps dodgy tenants as they can hop from provider to provider basically without consequence. Crappy landlords can also find an endless stream of willing victims.
Ideologically, our tory overlords can't deal with this system failure.
100% agree. Being a landlord is a business and as such comes with risks as well as rewards. All this just covering the mortgage conveniently forgets its being paid down and let’s not forget about the property value increase benefit.
We’ve got a massive affordable housing issue in this country and landlords pricing out first time buyers is contributing to the problem. Complaining when owning 2 or more houses while others can’t get on the housing ladder isn’t a great look.
My son recently moved into a flat, shared. "Will you be my guarantor?" he asked. Sure. Oh, apparently there's a minimum earnings level and I didn't cut it - not helped by being self-employed. I had to ask one of my mates, who I've known for decades, to act as guarantor. *that* was an awkward conversation. Bizarrely I currently let out a property (my folks' old house) but that didn't help matters.
The rental system is heavily biased to the tenant in my experience, I think i'm a fair landlord and I try to take people at face value. I have several properties and whilst most of my tenants have been reasonable, I've had a few that have taken liberties and in turn i've taken a hit on. Im in it for the long game, if I make a few quid on the way great, but properties need maintaining and your tenants will not always be as careful or attentive as you might be in your own house, it's not 'easy money'.
I've also found the DPS are not exactly 'impartial' or quick to resolve matters, especially on 'wear & tear' issues
Add to that the current situation with long waiting lists for court action due to covid and you can be on a hiding to nowhere im afraid...
I’ve been a tenant, am a landlord. I can’t forsee circumstances where, if you’re trustworthy, you haven’t a single friend or family who’ll say “yeah, I’ll be your guarantor”.
- Young people leaving care?
- Young people with only younger friends, and at no fault estranged from family - not uncommon
- People relocating to UK?
- People whose family/friends who do not have sufficient assets or income to feel comfortable being a guarantor - even if the proposed tenant is incredibly trustworthy
@chevychase - I’ve rented, with good and bad landlords, now have a house with a mortgage with my wife.
I think you are being a bit blinkered with the “no single friend or family” expectation to cover it and just accept the liability like it’s nothing. Peoples circumstances change unexpectedly, health, relationships and employment, that is all part of real life.
I’m going to be 40 in a few years and have a job. I would 100% look somewhere else if a prospective landlord wanted a guarantor as standard practice. My parents are nearly 70, friends have their own families and commitments already.
I think most other people who are no longer students or in financial difficulties would do the same thing tbh...
Have to admit we only ask for a guarantor when a prospective tenant fails the background / finance checks we perform. Even then we may be flexible depending on the reasons for the failure.
We've been lucky with our tenants, we have a good number of properties - being the leeches of society that we are, we operate a business building flats/renovating houses for rental. My wife also runs a property management company looking after our properties and other rentals family members own.
As a landlord, the main thing to remember is you will be dealing with people. People can be absolute @rseholes. Some tenants will take no responsibility for the property. We get very frequent texts from some tenants ranging from a missing cat through to a brand new rural property that was dusty in the summer due to the neighbouring farmers field.
We've had two issues to deal with this weekend. None issues that the tenant should be dealing with themselves, one of them is the cat again, second one was a new tenant complaining that the shower water was too hot (probably my fault for not showing them they have to press a button on the dial to move the temperature dial). They wouldn't believe me that they needed to have the water below 40 degrees in the shower and wanted me to get someone to check the boiler.
We've only had one set of tenants make a mess of a house, they stopped paying rent and when they eventually left they emptied the house, all the plumbing was stripped out, interior doors taken, kitchen was smashed up, writing all over the walls. We used an agency at the time, pretty sure the house was sublet and there was a large number of people living there.
We actually didn't want to be landlords at first, our main business is in retail stores (large convenience stores), but when buying the stores quite a few of these come with flats within the freehold agreement. To buy the latest store (about 4 years ago) we had to purchase 85% of the buildings in a parade of shops, this came with 3 flats out of a row of 6. I'd rather not have the flats, but at the same time I'm responsible for the upkeep of the entire area and the shops are directly above the store. I have just bought the other 3 flats, but thats more to do with the fact I want to ensure the area remains clean and modern looking - the 3 new flats look tired, needing new windows, they are old single pane windows with knackered wooden sills. We have also just installed central heating in one flat and will do the other two over the next few months. They currently have a system blowing warm air out of a central flue....not seen one of those since I was growing up.
We are very fortunate in that we don't draw any income from our properties. We tend to average at 50% mortgage payments and 50% into maintenance. We have a rolling schedule of what jobs need doing and when. I honestly don't think I'd bother with a single property, unless you have the patience of an angel and can cope with being £10k out of pocket should the worst happen.
Dps favours tenants, I have had loads of tenants over the years and I know when someone takes the p.ss so it's just not fair the goodies subsidise the baddies.
A young couple took a flat, I did the inspection at 3 months, January, I entered the flat my glasses steamed up, I asked wtf you doing. Drying clothes with Windows shut....
So end of year loads of mould, black, damp. Inventory confirmed tenant liability with photos. I claimed repainting at 1k as it had been freshly painted when they took it on.
Dps awarded me 300 quid. Tenants c,aimed design issues with flat, like they didn't open the windows.
I don't actually take deposits now I just increase the rent 50 quid pcm. The good loyal tenants don't get charged it.
A young couple took a flat, I did the inspection at 3 months, January, I entered the flat my glasses steamed up, I asked wtf you doing. Drying clothes with Windows shut….
Forgive me for asking, but how should they have been drying clothes in January..? And was there something in the tenancy agreement specifically prohibiting drying clothes indoors in the middle of winter without opening a window? Surely if you're that specific, the onus would be on you to provide a dehumidifier, no..? 🤔
@Idiotdogbrain - you expect everyone to understand that you're going to cause mould issues if you dry clothes indoors without adequate ventilation.
If you're not up for opening a window, then get your own bloody dehumidifier. Private landlords aren't social services and there's an expectation (and legal requirement) that their tenants will take care of the property they're letting.
If there are structural issues, boilers, general maintenance not caused by negligence then that's all at the landlord's door. And rightly so.
But day-to-day being a tenant (of which I was one for many years - with both good and bad landlords) - your job is to do at least the minimum necessary to keep the place you're renting in decent nick.
Steaming up the place drying clothes on radiators with the windows shut isn't "taking care". It's breaking rule 1.
I quote, from a landlord law blog/site (my bold):
"Damp and mould growth is a hazard relevant to the HHSRS enforcement regime under Housing ACT 2004. Damp and associated mould arising from condensation is particularly hazardous because of the association with asthma and other respiratory diseases.
[b]Provision of clothes drying facilities is mentioned in the Govt guidance document associated with enforcement under HA2004 as something the landlord should do to reduce risk arising from this hazard.[/b]
Opening windows to ventilate during the cold season is not a good idea (except perhaps for a short time in a bathroom which has been steamed up) as it results in excessive heat loss; important with the ever upward cost of fuel and the constant urge for us be as economical as possible to avoid the most serious hazard of all (excess cold).
Condensation cause is complex of which occupier lifestyle is only 1 aspect. A residence could be at risk because of inadequate/uneconomic heating system, inadequate ventilation system (reliance on opening windows is not good) or inadequate thermal insulation. These are all the landlord’s responsibility.
[b]If the tenant is living normally (this would include drying own clothes indoors as opposed to taking in washing from others or say using paraffin heaters) then the landlord could be held to be responsible and subject to legal action from a Local Authority especially if there is no provision for drying clothes in Winter.[/b]"
I mean, I can go through the actual legislation if you like? I suspect the outcome will still be Suck It Up, Buttercup.
Id be so angry if I lost £300 because I dried clothes inside. I've allways done this? Never had damp. This is the buildings fault
The rental system is heavily biased to the tenant in my experience, I think i’m a fair landlord and I try to take people at face value.
Tenants have virtually no rights in the UK. No security. NO rights to stop price gouging, a life of total insecurity>
One of the major reforms the UK housing market needs is better tenants rights. Scotland has gone a short way down this road. Its utterly disgusting that millions of people live in insecure housing with no standards as to its condition
@idiotdogbrain, please do go into the legals. I think you'll find cut-pasting from internet forums do not a solid legal ground make.
If you're renting a totally *unfurnished* place then you're bringing your own white goods. This includes the washer/dryer. It's totally legal (and reasonable) to have a clause about drying clothes without creating mould in place. If you're providing your own white goods then the proviso is on you to bring your own dehumidifier. (What is reasonable changes if the landlord is providing furnishing of any kind - including white goods, which should also be PAT tested).
The standard reply on here is a confrontational one. One that pits landlord against tenant. And I get that - if either the landlord or tenant is a d1ck.
What is reasonable however is to treat the relationship as a two-way street (assuming not d1ck here). A discussion and agreement with the landlord over arrangements.
I'm loathe to provide white goods because different tenants want to bring their own fridges / washing machines etc - and if I provide them then I have to remove and store them on the off chance that another tenant may want them. In that case, I'd expect them to bring goods that allow them to dry their clothes properly - and to be sensible about things. Having said that, I hold a dehumidifier in my house for this very eventuality - with the best will in the world, what tenants say they'll do and what they actually do are very often totally different things. Getting them to actually *switch the dehumidifier on* (for the ones that haven't got the wherewithall to sort the basics of their own lives out) is something that I can't force.
If I come across as condescending towards tenants it's because I am. As a landlord I try to make things as trouble-free as possible for them. A full pack is produced detailing the minimum requirements they need to do to get their deposit back. It's not pitched like this - but one of them is "if you're dumb enough to act in a way that results in mould growing everywhere and you don't talk to your landlord about this until two whole walls need stripping back and replastering and the whole rest of the house needs disinfecting, repainting and recarpetting (spores) then YOU ARE A BAD TENANT AND YOU'LL LOSE YOUR MONEY".
Not a lot of things can't be fixed by a little bit of intelligent thought and communication. If you're drying clothes, there's damp everywhere and you're raging at your landlord (on a forum, not actually *to* him) that you need a dehumidifier and/or he should sort this problem out as it's "his responsibility" then you're negligent.
BTW - I've provided a dehumidifier to a tenant before that he didn't use.