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air rifle shooting too which I haven’t done in a while!
Currently planning a joint beavers/cubs summer camp to get my permit for that too
think you'll need to do an NSRA course for air rifles rather than time served on the activity.
lose various people at that age and even more at explorers
There's the pressure of school/ exams to contend with. Don't have much of this issue with our Scouts but the explorers have a drop in the GCSE lot at this time of year.
collecting round the flag pole each day, housing and folding it in particular ways
easy way to do a headcount on camp, reminder of the day's activity, address any issues. Folding the flag is mainly for how best to unfurl it rather than have some poor sod yanking on the rope only for it to remain bound! If there's a right to fold it when not in use we've not got the memo. I don't think the UK is as possessive as the US in the "correct" way to fold the flag.
What kind of tents?
5 man Berghaus ones.
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/16618540/berghaus-adhara-500-nightfall-tent-16618540
They are brand new, so we had the kids put them up and pull them down last Wednesday. They didn't do that in 38 minutes!
Most DofE / Scout / youth camp groups I have worked with seem to have a time zone malfunction when it comes to packing up anything camping wise…
Our older ones sat around in their deck chairs watching a DoE bunch in the same field, in the hope that they would make a pig's ear of setting up camp. They turned out to be Air Cadets and were even faster than us!
5 man Berghaus ones.
> https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/16618540/berghaus-adhara-500-nightfall-tent-16618540
Pah, so you're one of those nylon dome Johnny Come Lately snowflakes eh? We're still using that bastion of Scouting (and bane of Scouts), the Stormhaven...
https://www.blacksofgreenock.co.uk/blacks-of-greenock-stormhaven-tent
We've got a fine set of Icelandics, but the bells & Vangos get used more due to the separate sleeping pods they have.
Our 2 scout troops are now at c50/50 boys & girls (think my troop are poss >50% girls) so if we've got a mixed patrol for activities they can stay as a group in the tent.
Thanks poly. It's lists of you must have ... like that which is probably why I've gone 50 years avoiding any tickets and just got on with it. Easy enough when it's you and mates. I probably shan't be doing all that lot to enable some cubs to experience sailing then! I'll stick to knots for the moment.... unless that also needs a ticket these days 😉
We've got patrol tents too, but they are a faff, weigh a ton!
Thanks poly. It’s lists of you must have … like that which is probably why I’ve gone 50 years avoiding any tickets and just got on with it. Easy enough when it’s you and mates.
I might be wrong but the barrier to entry to become a sailing instructor compared to MTB trail leader, Climbing instructor, or a canoe instructor seem rather different. Even at that you still operate under the “supervision” of a senior instructor!
I’ll stick to knots for the moment…. unless that also needs a ticket these days 😉
I think you’ll be fine. If they do ever go sailing the instructors will be delighted as it saves them half an hour of trying to teach people to tie a bowline, clove hitch, round turn and two half hitches…. If you are doing that it’s worth teaching them when to actually use each one, too often it’s taught as learn the process for the knot but ignores where/when to use it.
We’ve got patrol tents too, but they are a faff, weigh a ton!
Patrol tents are cool, solid easy to put up,and last for many decades. A couple of our scout groups tents were Ex British army and had messages and dates written inside from WW1
In other news… My lad has a spoof scout badge with a TARDIS on it on his Explorer shirt. At the weekend camp we convinced some of the Cubs that Explorers had a Time Traveller staged badge.
Level 1 : Two hours forwards and backwards.
Level 2 : See Henry VIII
Level 3 : Dinosaurs or Jesus
All the leaders were in on it along with the older Scouts. We even told them that the red phone box by the Tuck Shop was the time machine.
This started a debate amongst the kids about where and when they would go when it was their turn to go for the "Time Traveller".
One of them thought long and hard, then decided that he would like to go to Nando’s.
If we can spin this out until the next camp I want to get the identical twins, that the Cubs don't know about, from our Explorer Unit in on the act.
If we can spin this out until the next camp I want to get the identical twins, that the Cubs don’t know about, from our Explorer Unit in on the act.
Genius!
One walks out one door saying "bye". The other comes in through another at exactly the same time and says "hi".
Last time I saw them they had different hair cuts. Will have to arrange some hats.
think you’ll need to do an NSRA course for air rifles rather than time served on the activity.
no, I meant I got to have a go, not running the activity!
@Poly, (I’m surprised no other leaders have said this!) there are several versions of the promise, for different faiths and the one you’re interested in, no faith. Can’t remember the wording for Cubs, but Beavers is “I promise to do my best, be kind and helpful and to love our world (instead of love God)” the beavers/parents decide on which they want to use before investiture.
(I’m surprised no other leaders have said this!) there are several versions of the promise, for different faiths and the one you’re interested in, no faith.
Which, just to prolong the debate, further strengthens the argument for having hat bit of the promise; if you're going to have different versions of it, so different people are promising different things, what's the point?
Crazyjenkins01 - I am aware there is an option not to mention god, although my experience in practice is that it’s not as widely promoted as you suggest, in my sons experience (which is obviously from one group and over 10 yrs ago so may not be representative) was that as a group they all learned the same promise mentioning god and the expectation was parents would highlight a concern and special arrangements be made. Now the beaver leader in that group is a rather traditional, church going, woman who was at least 60 yrs old so may not have any appreciation of the perception that creates. Schools often fall into the same habit. Your option if you don’t want to follow the line is to stand up and ask to be treated/identified as a minority - that’s not a great way of being inclusive. Those kids who learn the default position with god go to school and tell their friends (they are all very proud of learning their promise) and the unintended message to people of other or no faith is you would need to learn the same promise.
Having said god at beavers the assumption seems to be that you will continue to do the same for the rest of your scouting life (again some groups may be less so - this group is in a predominantly white, middle class, probably reasonably high church attending area). My daughter who only joined as an Explorer, was given the standard version to learn (on paper) and told if she would rather say the version without god to look it up online! No option that didn’t mention the Queen (or now King) was offered.
the default position* in scouting (in the U.K.) is God and Christianity, if you are Christian it can be quite difficult to see why if there’s an opt out of those parts it isn’t very welcoming to people of other faith or none. It is a historic anomaly arising from the beliefs of Baden Powell and the way that much of society operated at the time which in my opinion they could do with removing. I realise that will be hard because the organisational heirarchy is full of people, who by the selection bias of the system are people who either want the involvement of the church or are ambivalent about it; any challenge to the status quo may well face being accused of “wokeness”.
Even within the commonwealth many other scouts make no mention of their commitment to the hereditary monarch.
I’ll reiterate again that I am very pro-scouting, I just wish the organisation could see that some aspects need modernisation to be as good as it could be. As someone said for Beavers it probably makes no difference - but the organisations real crisis is in recruiting leaders and there’s bound to be some great potential leaders and the god and king stuff puts them off.
* the official position is that they are secular - but it’s not the perception (and perception matters as you unwittingly exclude people you never even spoke to), and I don’t think it’s the reality on the ground either - Scouts from multiple groups in this district frequently take part in religious ceremonies at the local church, but in well over 10 yrs of involvement with them they’ve never discussed participating with other religions in the community.
No option that didn’t mention the Queen (or now King) was offered.
There isn't one, another bugbear of mine.
As for everything else you said, I agree completely. To add some balance, as an 'insider', there is a large, vocal, number of leaders regularly expressing doubts and concerns about the "Faith and King" bits of the promise on forums such as the various Facebook groups etc, and I would be very surprised if HQ isn't listening.
However, I can understand why they have to move very slowly and cautiously so as not to rock the boat too much. One can just imagine the Daily Mail/Telegraph outrage and "wokeness going mad" bullshit spin should any vague thoughts about changing ot removing it be even whispered about by the Scout Association.
We moved 5 up from Cubs to Scouts at the weekend. A Leader took the kids to one side and asked them if they wanted to do the God version of The Promise. They said "no". So we did the alternate. No big fuss at all.
Have to say that "Do my Duty to The King" grates a bit with me personally, as a Republican who went to the tip during the coronation, but I doubt that Charlie is going to turn up at troop night with a squadron of tanks looking for recruits.
Anyway, this weekend is Escape Rammy and the kids are massively fired up for it. This is why we do Scouts. If The King wants to pop along too we'll let him (DBS permitting), but I'm sure we'll be fine without him.
Also, this is back next year and it is absolutely off the scale!
Got a couple of fund raisers to do between now and then to keep the cost down, but for £265 they are going to have the time of their lives!
IHN - ah yes I hadn't even considered the external influence of the "Media".
I just checked the US scout promise to see if they were swearing allegiance to the flag / nation etc. Somewhat surprisingly they aren't. Although I found their promise even worse! I'm not sure what they meant by "morally straight", I suspect it goes back to times when Enid Blyton wrote about the kids have such a gay time, but crikey nothing like keeping up with the times!
I obviously can’t comment on other groups ‘default’ but ours, for all sections, is Our World. We aren’t based in a church though, neither are a lot of the other groups in our district so maybe that makes a difference?
if you’re going to have different versions of it, so different people are promising different things
While I see the point here, the only real difference in the “versions” is the name of the deity you personally believe in, and if you don’t believe in one the our world makes it more inclusive. I do agree with the King/Queen point though, but as BP came from a military back ground it at least makes sense.
Just read your * bit again poly, must have missed it first time 💁
We only do church service once a year, on Remembrance Sunday, St George’s day is a scout event at the football stadium (for the last couple of years at least) and I took our beaver colony to visit the city’s synagogue last week which they loved! Which the cubs did last summer as well.
It unfortunately sounds like the traditional church going leader you mention may not be modernising themselves
crazyjenkins - his group were not based in a church/church hall either. In fact I don't think any of the groups that are within sensible distance from here are. It's likely habit - the Beaver leader has been doing it for 30 years, complains constantly that she wants to give it up and wants help but isn't particularly keen on anyone doing anything differently - I'm sure you'll have encountered the type as every voluntary organisation has these people!
Having a choice of promises is strange. it's similar with oaths in court. Whilst plenty of people there do proactively choose to affirm (i.e. not mention god, or use a holy book) there's a lot of people who are using words with zero meaning to them to assure the court they will tell the truth and not leave anything out, and some opting to do so because they think they sound more trustworthy if they do so!
The ritual is important, but probably the words should matter too.
You’re right, some people are happy to moan about nobody else doing it but then pitch a fit at something different!
It most likely is habit/tradition, and it might just be because I’m younger than a 30-year-served leader but tbh the beginning part of the promise is more important to me rather than saying God when you don’t believe. We spend a lot of time in sessions pointing out the “kind and helpful” aspect but not so much the God bit. It’s also framed more in a “spiritual” term than a religious one.
Out of interest if you think the King/God aspect might put off adults to become leaders, what would you do to encourage them? Would be really helpful for us to pinch some ideas! 🤣
My daughters said/ will say the 'our world' promise. It was the only one offered. I assumed beavers/ scouting had modernised. Maybe croydon is enlightened more than I thought.
I'm quite at ease with people saying different things though, they should say something meaningful to them. For everyone else is there demonstrations of commitment that matters.... or it does to me as part of the audience, not the actual words.
I wouldn’t get hung up on the wording. I’m an atheist republican. It’s just words.
The important thing is to be there for yourself, the kids, the troop, and the other leaders. If somebody wants to help because they have something to offer then join in.
As an atheist republican who is also a Scouts Trustee all the God & king stuff just looks like nonsense. I don't think the kids think about it for more than a second after saying it, as long as they get to go run around in the mud and jump in the lake.
I wouldn't get hung up about it, I haven't met a single leader who gives a monkeys about the religion or monarchy. It's about groups of adults and teenagers giving up loads of spare time so that kids can have fun and grow into decent people. It's all bloody brilliant and we desperately need more volunteers.
It’s just words.
so that kids can have fun and grow into decent people
Right, my final thoughts on it. I agree that one of the (laudable) aims is to help the kids grow into decent people by promoting behaviours and values that are, well, decent, and like I said above, the scout law does pretty much that.
In that vein, one of things I talk to the Scouts about when they make their promise is the "on my honour" bit, and that your honour is the respect that you earn from being a decent person, and one of the main qualities of being a decent person is that you keep your promises.
So, we can't therefore say that to them, and then say that the Scout promise is "just words". We either have one that means something to everyone that takes it, or we don't
We have a set of values about honour, honesty and decency and respect. Respect for yourself, respect for your mates, respect for your leaders and respect for your kit. These are the important bits in my view. God and The King if you like, but honour, honesty, decency and respect first.
What HtS says makes sense to me.
I wouldn’t get hung up about it, I haven’t met a single leader who gives a monkeys about the religion or monarchy. … It’s all bloody brilliant and we desperately need more volunteers.
of course you haven’t - all the leaders are people who have either no objection or do object but don’t mind enough to make a fuss. It’s survivor bias, so you’ve no idea how many potential leaders you lose just from the perception of those words. If you meant in all your time in scouting nobody has ever tried to promote religious or monarchy aspects I’m a wee bit surprised. We just had a St George’s day parade (which given we are in Scotland seemed odd till it was explained he was the Patron Saint of Scouting!). And I’m sure if any district was to get a royal visit there would be much excitement. Our kids all got a new badge to commemorate the coronation.
Out of interest if you think the King/God aspect might put off adults to become leaders, what would you do to encourage them? Would be really helpful for us to pinch some ideas! 🤣
well I *should* be good reference point for that question. I have volunteered with them but I bailed out at the point they wanted me to become a leader. The obvious thing is to change the promise. I appreciate that the rituals are an important part of scouting and taking them away would probably be like getting rid of the uniform - but they can definitely be modernised. Having never been a scout the idea of wearing a necker isn’t something I get excited about either, although that would have been less significant. fwiw the other things that group (and again others may be better) do wrong with volunteers/leaders is as soon as you show a modicum of interest they leap, I can see how much time others put in - you need to have a lot of discipline to say no. But they also seem to wait till they are desparate before they ask for help.
that’s on top of all the usual headaches of being a scout leader like being able to get to the hall at the right time every week; ideally not having your own kid in the group; etc; and there’s always one leader who treats the parents like they are the 10 yr old kids. I see the same with some teachers - they seem unable to switch mode - that would be kind of patronising if they were a leader you were working alongside.
Finally I think you and IHN wrote a lot of positive things about the Scout Law and Promise and what Scouts were committing to. I’d possibly reflect that not every teenager seems to manage that and from what I’ve seen there doesn’t seem to be any real sanction when individuals act like nobs. Obviously some groups will be better at this than others, and some leaders will be better at it too.
Now I spent several years as “hall keeper” letting other groups into/out of the hall, dealing with the burglar alarm going off, removing dead mice, fixing door locks, light bulbs etc. and I am lined up to go and help a neighbouring group with a particular area I have a little expertise in come September, so it’s not I don’t want to help.
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We are a group nominally attached to a church, so God is our default promise. We don't ever go - Remembrance service is so busy there isn’t room for us, so we run a pop up tea room in the village hall to raise funds for the British Legion after the parade.
St George's Day is a district activity, but no longer at church. Our Christmas activity is now an open air campfire rather a church carol concert.
It takes a long time to turn an oil tanker, and volunteers with the right approach to do do so. I've never volunteered for any group because I thought it was perfect, I do it because I think it needs improving and modernising.
My kids went to a CofE primary school, church based Scout and Guide groups, and one has just finished a Catholic secondary school. Both are non-religious republicans, and I suspect that the independence and self reliance they got from Scouts and Guides is a factor in that.
"Broken any of the ten commandments lately? How about any laws? Still want to join the pack? Excellent".
We have used the alternate promise, and given the choice it's the one I'd go for but it really doesn't matter much. Last week I invested some Cubs and made them promise to the Queen until someone pointed out she dead. Force of habit.
I helped out with a Scout troop in Canada for a while and they saluted the Canadian flag which I didn't, because I'm not Canadian. That was a dick move in retrospect.
Last week I invested some Cubs and made them promise to the Queen until someone pointed out she dead. Force of habit.
I think a lot of investitures have been including doing duty to the Quing for a while now 🙂
I’m not sure the promise issue for adults is as big a factor as you think poly, although I’ve been wrong before! And that might just be down here in the sunny South West.
Most of the reasons I hear from adults for not becoming uniformed is the amount of time commitment, perceived lack of skill/ability/nothing to give, “fear” of responsibility and requirement for training.
Maybe in other areas of the country the perception is a major factor.
Ive been a Cub leader for about 3 years now ( I came thru cubs, scouts etc then took a break until I had kids of my own and got roped in)
The law/promise bit is something I barely think about, for the cubs a 5 minute investiture ceremony and theyve pretty much forgotten it!
Im far busier planning other stuff to worry about that, next week we have a hike ive just plotted the route for, my eldest is bivvying out with scouts this weekend, I have a district beaver camp Im helping out & with my youngest going in a few weeks, we have our AGM, BBQ & waterfight in the last week of term and Im just finalising the email for a 20k gravel ride for the first week of the summer holidays
I've just completed an adult information form to hand back tonight as I take my daughters along to beavers. I guess that means I've volunteered.
<hr />
Unpacked from camp last night. Tents all checked, swept and put away. Unclaimed items of underwear ceremoniously stapled to the notice board. Bit of a de-brief about what went right and what could have been done better. Ate all of the crisps that will go out of date before the next camp. Older ones spent the night expedition planning. Played a game of “Dave Ball”.
Big event coming up on Saturday morning. If we don’t win (again) the kids will be gutted! No pressure then eh?
Anyone North West based should keep an eye out for the Bispham Hall Chariot Race. Dates should be out soon.
Well done and thank you. Explorer section leader and Cub assistant leader here, yes as has been said above, some things are a pain in the whatever but watching young people overcome self doubt, learn, form life long friendships and apply skills you've helped them learn is priceless. Seeing those young people being able to teach those skills to others makes me really proud. We're currently trying to recruit more leaders from our parent group and having no joy.
We have a parent rota which is a good way of a) getting to know them and b) recruiting new assistants and potential leaders. What we don't have is a functioning exec but that's another story.
I’ve just completed an adult information form to hand back tonight as I take my daughters along to beavers. I guess that means I’ve volunteered.
Balanced at the top of the slippery slope...
We have a parent rota which is a good way of a) getting to know them and b) recruiting new assistants and potential leaders. What we don’t have is a functioning exec but that’s another story.
I used to dread my turn on the parent rota, and realised I wasn’t cut out to be a unit leader. Turns out I'm ok at exec/trustee stuff, wearing hiviz to marshall events and washing up at fundraising tea rooms!
They also serve who only stand and wait marshall washing up.
Just been informed I've volunteered to do the cub camp next weekend. There's only me and one other parent with current DBS. So we're screwed! Ah well am sure ot will be "entertaining"!
Escape Rammy done! As defending Champions I had high hopes, but we were bloody awful and got caught 5 times. Whatever, the kids had a hoot although some of them may not have agreed at the time.
https://www.strava.com/activities/9367431718
Scouting really is superb. 200 hundred kids getting chased for 3 hours in a 10km game of hide and seek. Where else could you do that?
That’s taking manhunt to the next level!
Went mountain (*) biking with the group last night so combining 2 of my activities!
(* inasmuch that one can mountain bike in Kent!)
Got 7 of them through their Expedition over the weekend which meant that 3 of them completed their Gold.
Weather was a bit too hot to send them over the moors with all of their kit, so the route was cut short and they only had to carry day sacks. When they got to camp they had to bivouac or use hammocks though. We couldn’t make it too easy for them!
This is why we do it!
This is why we do it!
Great result! 👍
LittleMissMC did her silver DofE expedition with Guides the weekend before, so glad she missed last weekend
Anyone at The Bevan Challenge next weekend?
Our “crack team” will be out doing the activities all day, so I’m hoping for some good weather so that I can site by the fire and read a book.
They are at Manchester Monopoly Run the weekend after, but I’m not involved.
Just spotted this thread. I've been a "Leader" now for a month - I have a daughter who didn't get on with Brownies and I'd thought about becoming a Cubs Leader, so she gets into Cubs too.
Its not like I remember it - less regimented (regimented was good) although that might be changing now we're moving indoors for the winter. Outdoors was cat herding. Its hard keeping them engaged - I noticed ADHD mentioned early in the thread - at least 4 from 21 are diagnosed or being assessed. No bad thing. Some kids just don't stop talking though, about anything and nothing. Whereas others don't say a peep. Its a learning curve for sure, and I'm sure will have satisfying moments at some point soon...
We had one kid who every now and then just wanted to sit under a table and make "beep" noises. Once I asked him why and he just said that he liked doing it. Which is fair enough.
I'm helping out at Cubs tonight. Hope I survive as I've got an awful cough thing. Lashings, working on the pioneer badge. Not done lashings before but akela sent me a YouTube and they both look very simple so if I can survive through the cough it should be OK.
Eldest daughter seems to be very happy in Cubs having moved up from the turquoise ninjas, she was invested a couple of weeks ago. Youngest daughter is now in beavers and said very quickly its become her favourite club! I'm definitely grateful for the scout group, it's helped both with friendships and confidence.
Oh and I'll try and count again tonight but when I did a quick count while watching my daughter's investiture, it seemed just over 50% girls at the cubs, beavers must be similar.
although that might be changing now we’re moving indoors for the winter. Outdoors was cat herding.
Ours just seem louder when they come inside, otherwise pretty much the same.
We’re about 2:1 boys to girls, but 4 out of 5 PLs are girls, and our team for The Bevan are all girls.
We’re just moving on our “enforcers” to Explorers. They are both girls. This has left a bit of a power vacuum, but see if you can guess the gender of the two that will probably step up and fill the void…
Heads up if you want a "quiet" activity.
Free Warhammer!!!
https://warhammer-alliance.com/uk/scouts-programme/
Been a warranted leader since 1972 (numerous roles) so I guess it's a worthwhile organisation to be involved in.
Good luck & thanks to all those who are doing their bit.
Thanks for the heads up Harry, I've passed the link on to akela.
I enjoyed it last night, and despite a temperature which had me dripping sweat, I think I was compus enough to help a six with some lashings.... although other then one lad who had clearly been practicing the efforts were.....'a good start' 🤣
A quick count and I made it about 10 girls from 29 or 30 Cubs last night so possibly not quite so even as I'd thought but good numbers I reckon.
We seem to run with 3-4 girls in each unit at a time, Squirrels through to Explorers.
They really seem to change the dynamics of a unit compared to when we have a year with an all male unit.
If anyone has any tips or advice on merging districts, I'm all ears....
We're pretty much 50/50 girls and boys, probably slightly more girls, that's in Scouts. Got a weekend camp in a couple of weeks that's seven girls and two boys.
We're struggling a bit to get them going camping, we rarely get double figures going out of a troop of over thirty Scouts. Anyone else had this?
We’re struggling a bit to get them going camping, we rarely get double figures going out of a troop of over thirty Scouts. Anyone else had this?
Could be a cost/lack of kit issue?
Is it seasonal/weather related? Maybe stay in huts this time of year, get them used to being away, then camp next year now.
Are camps clashing with other commitments - football, rugby, ballet etc?
Is it the kids not wanting to go or parents not wanting to let them - MrsMC struggles to get Guide parents to "let their little darlings out of sight/contact" - MrsMC takes a dim view on this!
I can only say what my kids group does. They get the beavers (and parents?) Used to a night away from home/ mum/ dad with a sleep over at the scout hut so familiar territory but great fun for them. Group camp was late May bh, camping, beavers for just 1 night, cubs and scouts 2. That had 35-40% of the beaver colony, maybe half the cubs, scouts not sure as no idea how many there are. Cubs are off for a camp but staying in huts at the approaching half term. I am only guessing but suspect there will be at least half the pack.
I can imagine the kit list being a burden for some, especially at the moment. I've become acutely aware even the uniform is expensive. With 2 girls that between them have started rainbows, Brownies, beavers, cubs and 2x girls brigade, I've been asked to spend about £200 on uniform in the last year. I'm all for uniform, but a sweatshirt or poloshirt that costs £18-23 rather than £6-9 simply because it says cubs/ beavers/ girls brigade on it is absurd and I've taken a stand. Plain bottle green sweatshirt and t, plain turquoise t, plain navy hoodies for girls brigade. Rainbows and Brownies uniforms are a p-take.
Got two events this weekend. Taking a team of 4 to the Beavan Challenge at Tawd Vale, hiking, canoeing, shooting and an assault course. Doing it "light" with one patrol box and hammocks. Beavan team are all PLs, and all girls.
The rest are at the Chariot Race at Bispham Hall, which will be like a military operation with trailers, event shelters and tons of other kit.
Glad I'm on the Beavan as packing the Chariot kit away in the mud will be a pain.
Anyone else North West based doing these?
Just stumbled into this chat as I reckoned there could be some similarities with bike club stuff and this kind of thing...apart from the various names for the groups, the issues aren't all that different.
I'm off to have a read of the full thing to see if there are any tips that can be gleaned from the wealth of experience here.
Wow, what an event the Beavan is! If you are Merseyside based you should look into it.
Not sure how us "Mancs" ended up there, and neither were the organisers, but they've asked us back next year.
Saturday is Manchester Monopoly Run. We're there with Scouts and Explorers but I'm getting the day off.
When on camp we keep the facebook updated with pictures of what they are up to
A good way of selling the camp & keeping clingy parents informed
We are also quite flexible about arriving late/ leaving early for other commitments
It is a bit frustrating we had 6 out of 36 cubs pull out just before the camp this weekend of glorious weather and plenty of fun activities
Sorry, just following up on the replies to my questions about getting more of the Scouts camping
When on camp we keep the facebook updated with pictures of what they are up to
A good way of selling the camp & keeping clingy parents informed
Yep, we do this
We are also quite flexible about arriving late/ leaving early for other commitments
Ditto
They get the beavers (and parents?) Used to a night away from home/ mum/ dad with a sleep over at the scout hut so familiar territory but great fun for them.
TBH I think this is the main issue. We're riding the wave of Scouts who never/rarely went camping as Cubs/Beavers because of Covid. So, they don't really know what to expect or whether they'll like it, and my impression is that the parents also have the apron strings tightened a bit too. Hopefully this will start to ease itself now.
I can imagine the kit list being a burden for some, especially at the moment.
We do make a point of saying that we don't want any child to miss out because of financial reasons, but no-one has ever come forward for help (although I guess that would be quite a thing to do, pride-wise). We do have spare kit (sleeping bags, mats etc) so maybe we should make a point of saying that we have stuff available to borrow if needs be.
We're lucky in that we have a history of camping in both Cubs and Scouts, so the kids know what they are letting themselves in for! We get a few that will never camp, ever, but usually we have pretty good attendance.
We try and keep the fees fixed at £35 for a weekend and £20 for a single night. Over the year this averages out.
On camp we upload loads of photos to the parent's WhatsApp group.
We do make a point of saying that we don’t want any child to miss out because of financial reasons, but no-one has ever come forward for help (although I guess that would be quite a thing to do, pride-wise). We do have spare kit (sleeping bags, mats etc) so maybe we should make a point of saying that we have stuff available to borrow if needs be.
I serve on the committee of a sports club. We operate essentially a hardship fund ("Athlete Support Grant") to help the least wealthy junior members go to some of the further away events but it has never been that well utilised. We spent a lot of time this year talking about rebranding it etc. The end conclusion was that the barrier to applying was far higher than we wanted it to be, with forms buried in an obscure part of the website, too many questions about what you wanted and why, and an implication that if we said no and you did it any way you must have been lying about "needing" the money. We flipped it round and asked the coaches to nominate people (they are encouraged to think about personal circumstances, athletic benefits, personal growth) and we then call them "club sponsored athletes". No stigma, no barrier to entry from a parent who might not be close to the club etc. Anecdotal feedback so far is it is much appreciated - I'm certain none of them would have come forward and said "would love to go but can't afford it", some would have made an excuse, or gone but at the detriment of something else (like a scout camp!). So I'd agree "saying you don't want to miss out for financial reasons" and actually removing the barrier are not the same thing.
Thanks Poly.
The only 'barrier' we have to help is speaking to one of the leaders in confidence, but I guess that in itself could be seen as a public admission of sorts of something they may not wish to be known. Part of the issue is also that we're based in a superficially comfortable area, but I have no doubt that there are parents in there that are only just managing to juggle their mortgage/car/credit card/Netflix/Disney+ etc payments and for whom the stigma of admitting that they are struggling may be even greater. However, it is does make it really hard to see who may need help and who doesn't.
Good point about barriers are not always obvious, and pride is an ossue of course - our group is in the "more affluent" part of the district, but we have parents having a sabbatical from paying subs, 2nd hand uniform available. We've also got more generous with our support for bigger international activities.
We'd sooner someone "miss" a couple of months subs if their young person can then do a camp or whatever - often the kids who benefit most.
Saturday is Manchester Monopoly Run. We’re there with Scouts and Explorers but I’m getting the day off.
Our Explorers are going, they and the leaders are very excited!
My daughter is getting presented with her Gold at the end of it. She doesn't know this. I'm not doing the event but I am going to sneak in at the end.
Our demographic is very mixed. We have kids from council estates and some that live on the same street as members of Elbow. Think we have quietly dropped subs for those that are struggling, but it doesn't filter down to my level as I don't need to know.
Also, an afternoon of bag packing in Morrisons can get us £800 ish, so we use that to subsidise events.
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i guess the DBS check is done then! Im at beavers tomorrow night with the 6yo as they were short handed... half termly badge awards so I get to be proud dad as well as help out 😁 when I realised that I looked down the rota and yep, now booked to help at beaver Christmas party and badge awards 😀
My 8yo cub is off to camp Friday..... thankfully they had chosen to use a bunk house and it looks like Babet will be clearing away Saturday so they won't need the Web feet and aqualung....I hope! Costing almost 3 times what you charge for a weekend Harry, we must up our game on fund raising perhaps.....I suspect 1st crystal palace would feel aggrieved if we went to sainsburys to pack bags as would the brownies/ guides who meet in the rooms above.....hmm.... the lidl might be on our patch 🤔
Any advice on driving a minibus for scouts? Eldest daughter is hoping to do Ten Tors, I have volunteered to help and drive a minibus if required. I have the relevant designation on my licence but the whole driving kids and for an organisation where the passengers are paying throws up lots of uncertainty.. Happy to get the qualification if required.
I’m one of the few leaders that drive minibuses for our group (joys of getting a licence when they added categories for the fun of it).
Double check with your groups GSL on the situation for clarity. When I asked, I was told that you’re not being recompensed for driving services, the group is being paid to cover the cost of the event ie transport, food, accommodation.
Some groups require drivers to undergo MIDAS training in addition to having the class on your licence.
Costing almost 3 times what you charge for a weekend Harry
Yikes!
A regular camp for us, in tents, works out at £35 per head. If we do indoor stuff then we will subsidise. Are you doing loads of activities, or is it just the cost of the sites where you are?
Regarding driving. We bump it up to District and let them make the call. I can run kids to camp (I've got a 7 seater) as long as there is an agreement with the parents, I don't charge and there is never a 1:1 situation in the car.
I'm just in parent mode as far as this weekend's cub camp goes so don't know the exact details. Friday evening until Sunday late afternoon, a scout centre near Gerrards Cross that the leaders are excited to be using for the first time as it has activities they haven't done with the cubs before (partly why it was chosen despite being the other side of London so about 2 hours away), 16 cubs (about half the pack, they were space limited and had a couple of cubs on the reserve list). Staying in dorms/ rooms with 4 per room (my daughter was disappointed by that but given storm Babet and the lingering rain I think it was a fortunate choice!)
Fairly sure they will have a great time if they get some drier weather and will be using some of the activities.... although I've not had any forms to sign beyond the normal medical form.
£90. Which I think is very reasonable really, and I definitely see why a couple of nights straight camping is less, but I'm still impressed by your £35. We suffer London prices perhaps!
How do you all use OSM in your groups? Do you have all badges open for working on at home or do you close some off?
As a parent I find OSM very useful. I enjoy doing stuff with the kids and they enjoy it too but can be awful to motivate and get started some times. but currently the phrase 'It counts towards a beavers/cubs badge' can work magic! Plus with some of the tasks I will do a short write up to load as evidence, and I treat the sheet as a bit of reading practice for my kids and as I leave gaps for the girls to fill in words, sentences or draw pictures it makes good writing practice which my 6yo is particularly challenging to motivate to do, so OSM is great!
Unfortunately I've been caught out a couple of times when I've failed to notice a badge not set for working on at home. For example I managed to get the kids to come for a walk in a local forest for a couple of hours, which they enjoyed. The promise of ticking the walk/ramble/hike tasks in their adventure badges helped to get them out though. Later I uploaded photos for my cub but then discovered the beavers adventure challenge wasn't open for me to do the same for my beaver. In this case I emailed the lodge leader who decided to award my daughter her hikes activity badge so my daughter was very happy. I'm just wondering if others choose to keep some badges closed down and why.
tents, works out at £35 per head
how long is that for? We tend to do weekends for about £15-£20 a head.
not had any forms to sign beyond the normal medical form.
wont be doing air rifles then!
£90 at a centre sounds fair value- Mrs FB recently took her pack to a local outwards bounds place on a district camp for a similar price.
re OSM, not sure if it’s open for parents to add stuff. They can see progress on badges, however if they want to encourage their kids.
how long is that for? We tend to do weekends for about £15-£20 a head.
really?
we struggled to keep it below 30 for our last 2 nighter
OSM is good, but I struggle to keep up with badges and some parents really pester about them!
my eldest are on a scout camp this weekend, its already been reduced to Saturday morning start as its going to be just 2 wet on Friday night for them to set up!
wont be doing air rifles then!
Shoulda come to the National Scouts Shooting Championship at Bisley this weekend instead 🙂
we struggled to keep it below 30 for our last 2 nighter
our group has equipment for archery, tomahawks and air rifles so we can do those for no/minimal cost.Our district campsite charges a low fee per night plus will give a free night for a few hours service that keeps the cost down. Aldi and Costco help keep the food bill down too, plus a new leader has started and his dad is a meat wholesaler!