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Not sure if covered here in light of recent summer tragedies???
(Poor internet connectivity this month 🙁 )
As someone who grew up on the coast; currents, tides, weather and (hopefully) being able to read them have been ingrained. Even so, I know the risks, know that they're still there irrespective of my knowledge / respect and that they can bite me or my kids at any time.
Recent events are dreadful, but am I alone in my bewilderment at the general media / public / expert response?
Yes to RNLI lifeguards on popular beaches, yes to good education and advice, but please keep the evermorerulesandbyelaws approach for the local council park...
Agreed, the sea is a cruel and harsh mistress. I am well aware of the dangers at my local beach and make my own risk assessment before I go in. I do not want it closed because cretins camp under crumbling chalk cliffs or put their kids on an inflatable in a howling offshore breeze, better education and hard hitting public service broadcasts.
from what I've read so far it might appear that the 5 unfortunate chaps in camber this week could not swim at all. The conditions were good, no rip but a fast moving tide and soggy sand making walking difficult
This is an area where I really do hope we don't have to walk at the pace of the slowest person and bring in rules to save idiots from themselves. Idiots is maybe a bit harsh a term - ignorance of the danger they were putting themselves in given their capabilities seems to be a common cause.
from what I've read so far it might appear that the 5 unfortunate chaps in camber this week could not swim at all. The conditions were good, no rip but a fast moving tide and soggy sand making walking difficult
Sh!t, that's dreadful 🙁
it might appear that the 5 unfortunate chaps in camber this week could not swim at all
According to the brother of one they could all swim. I have no idea if that's true or speculation.
Given all the other reports I've seen of the conditions, it seems very strange for them to drown if they could swim. It seems to be being blamed on the tide coming in faster than expected and on sand bars - those factors would simply result in people becoming unexpectedly out of their depth, something which a competent swimmer wouldn't have an issue with.
There seems to be a suggestion that the beach should be closed - do they mean the whole 7 mile length of it, or just the bit where these poor chaps drowned?
I'm not sure about the feasibility of closing the sea
I'm not sure about the feasibility of closing the sea
King C'nut demonstrated quite clearly that not even a King had that power!
It's much the same at Burnham-on-Sea along to Brean, a six mile beach with the second highest tidal range in the world after the Bay of Fundy in Canada, at 11m/36ft, and the tide can recede up to 1.5 miles, leaving vast mudflats.
There are signs everywhere warning of soft sand and mud, danger of sinking, but still the hovercraft and rescue teams get called out between two to three hundred times a year, mostly to beach rescues, because some ignorant emmet has ignored the signs and tried to walk out to the sea; the tide comes in at 3mph...
Then there are the cocks who drive their cars onto the mud, and get upset when it gets stuck and the tide covers it.
There's continued calls for more to be done, but you just can't legislate for ignorance and gross stupidity!
Adults I say let Darwin sort it out, but it's heartbreaking when a five year old girl gets stuck and drowns. 🙁
That's why they now have two hovercraft.
Sorry but if the tide goes out 1.5miles, and takes roughly 6 hours to come back in, then I make that 0.25mph, not 3mph???
It is if the gradient of the beach is even and constant. Sandbars, undulations and channels mean that the speed is variable and alarmingly fast in places.
Also the rate the tide comes in is not constant. In the RNLI we use the rule of twelfths which is a good approximation:
First hour 1/12th of the height
Second hour 2/12ths
Third hour 3/12ths
Fourth hour 3/12ths
Fifth hour 2/12ths
Sixth hour 1/12th
Because the change is gradual, lay people may not notice that the speed the tide has coming in has tripled.
Reports this morning are they they got stuck in quicksand, so their ability to swim or not is kind of beside the point. Desperately sad.
Agent007, i haven't checked the maths but the tide does not move linearly, it follows a roughly sinusoidal rate, with the flow at mid tide being about 3x the flow 1h after it turns (that is a simplification as local effects mean it's not always as neat as that).
as morphio said above
the beach at Berrow,Brean and Weston has a gradient that changes and in parts is almost flat and combined with the rule of 12ths means that at times the tide moves at quite a pace . The prevailing onshore wind can increase this rate. Fortunately sandbars and channels do not form due to the underlying mud and clay.
As the count stated although there are many signs every year people try to walk to the sea and get stuck in the mud and several people drive their cars into the mud, this has been mostly stopped at WSM as the cars are contained further up the beach.
Sorry but if the tide goes out 1.5miles, and takes roughly 6 hours to come back in, then I make that 0.25mph, not 3mph???
And therein lies the problem. Local says what happens, someone from outside 'knows better' and ends up with a ride in the big yellow taxi or an orange boat, if they're lucky.
Big signs at the entrances with bullet point warnings and a chronological history of the deaths that have happened over the years, then let Darwinism takes its course.
Probably should have at least one defined and flagged area though with one hovercraft (for areas with quicksand) around. If you are in trouble outside the defined area, then you will be liable for rescue fees.
The problem at Camber is a sand bar with a channel that runs between it and the top of the beach which is about 1-1.5m deeper than the top of the sand bar.
The sand bars move about and the channel seems quite deep at the moment which I believe is down to the recently completed coastal defence work personally.
Unfortunately standing on one the bars with a rising tide at mid flow you would have to swim to get back to the beach if the water was up to your thighs.
There are signs in place warning of the dangers, but he beach does get a lot of visiters who are really not used to being by/ in the sea and lots of non English speakers.
Its my favourite windsurf beach so really hope there isn't some knee jerk reaction.
It is a tragic event, and I do not aim to suggest my comments reflect what happened.
It is personal responsibility time in my view.
Lifeguards *can* help at busy places, when something unravels, but at the end of the day we need to get people to a place where they are able to make decisions themselves.
I think we have a lot of folk now 'insulated' from so much risk, they are not used to making decisions or thinking about it. You have to be exposed to risk to be able to then learn and apply it in all sorts of situations.
Lots of reasons why we are here, with many young people and adults de-skilled in such things.
I'm even writing about such things at the moment...
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/calculating-risks-matt-robinson?trk=prof-post
Beautiful place Camber, you can see why folks go down there to enjoy it.
But, as with all beaches, they are to be enjoyed with a little caution and understanding of the area and conditions.
Sad as this is, tragic even, but this does send out a message that beaches are places to be enjoyed and taken with caution.
Enjoy them, Summer is still here on the South Coast.
Wholeheartedly agreed Matt. There is no coincidence that the folk who do dangerous things for a hobby/living and see their pension are also some of the most risk adverse in society too. The ability to assess the risk (including identifying unknowns) and compare to your own ability is a pretty key life skill.
The blame reaction and anger of the family that was reported in the news yesterday is perfectly understandable when it's so raw but I hope in time they can see that their loved ones were entirely contributory.
In certain sea conditions, the ability to swim is pretty irrelevant.
I was initially surprised when doing my offshore survival that they didn't seem bothered about the amount of non swimmers. It was quickly an succinctly explained to me that this was way down the list of requirements if yer chopper ends up in the salty on a dark, cold winter morning.
I've lived on the coast all my life, haven't a clue about reading tides etc, but I have a healthy respect of the sea, that prevents me from doing something daft, hopefully.
Sometimes a group, especially of teenage boys or young men they will take risks or ignore dangers that they would never do alone. I understand the point people are making about personal responsibility and it's speculation I know but each may individually have been uneasy about what they were doing but went along with the group.
My daughter is generally someone very aware of dangers, it won't stop her doing things but she acts accordingly. 3 years ago she was on the beach at Newhaven in very rough weather, the beach was busy though, plenty of people were enjoying it safely. Her friend Dylan who was next to her was just a little closer to the sea. A wave hit them knocking her onto the beach and taking him into the water. His body has never been found and she watched him drown in front of her. I think had she been alone she probably would have been a bit further from the waters edge and maybe it would have been the same for him. As well as personal responsibility we need to teach our kids that the judgements they make alone are the same ones they should make when they are with others.
Unfortunately, the people that are likely to get in to trouble on the coast, are likely to get in to trouble in the mountains. The sort that just wear shorts and T-shirt while going up a mountain on a sunny day, then get caught out by the weather.
Like you say Matt, I think they are not exposed to what mother nature can do, as they are rarely immersed in conditions other than nice calm and sunny, where ever that may be.
It was quickly an succinctly explained to me that this was way down the list of requirements if yer chopper ends up in the salty on a dark, cold winter morning.
With respect that is an incredibly different scenario. When in trouble at the coast you to tend not to have an immersion suit, life jacket, life raft and a swim so far no one is going to make it to land. Being able to swim in water just off a beech is more than a little useful.
With respect that is an incredibly different scenario. When in trouble at the coast you to tend not to have an immersion suit, life jacket, life raft and a swim so far no one is going to make it to land. Being able to swim in water just off a beech is more than a little useful.
Agreed, although once you are in difficulty and start panicking, you'd be as well in the middle of the north sea, even if you're only a few metres from safety.
Perhaps not my best analogy!
On the radio on Monday they were talking about a tragic incident at the weekend where people died after children were paddling in the water at a red-flagged beach. Everyone was at pains to continuously make the point "no-one was to blame" although at one point the RNLI chap did gently clarify (as the host didn't seem aware of this) that red flags mean stay out of the water completely, not "don't swim but paddling ok". Maybe in this case more signs, etc would have saved lives? Certainly more education needed. Although they also made the point on the radio show that when people are in "holiday mode" all common sense can go out the window.The blame reaction and anger of the family that was reported in the news yesterday is perfectly understandable when it's so raw but I hope in time they can see that their loved ones were entirely contributory.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-37191585 ]This is what I'm talking about[/url]
The family of one of the five men who died at Camber Sands have spoken of their anger that the beach was not shut after another death there last month.Mr Ravi's sister Mayura, 17, said the family felt anger that the stretch of beach where they died had not been blocked off following Mr Da Cruz's death last month.
Sometimes a group, especially of teenage boys or young men they will take risks or ignore dangers that they would never do alone.
Teenagers are biologically hard wired to take risks. They *have* to do it. If they don't take 'positive' risks, they will take *any* risks. Research suggests the risks they then end up taking are ill considered and health harmful (drugs, alchohol, sex, massive physical risk with no skill etc).
The blame reaction and anger of the family that was reported in the news yesterday is perfectly understandable when it's so raw but I hope in time they can see that their loved ones were entirely contributory.
I agree, and the problem being the press are happy to pedal this more than the tragedy of it all, or a piece on seeing some of the risks at a beach.
This is what I'm talking about
Yup, I thought they were a bit over the top. It's not a lifeguarded beach, only beach patrol. ISTM that they did their job - got the police, coastguard etc.
The sea is a dangerous place, even when it looks benign. Unfortunately even with the deaths last month people still go into the sea unprepared.
Know the dangers, read the signage, and think very carefully before swimming on an un-lifeguarded beach.
The family of one of the five men who died at Camber Sands have spoken of their anger that the beach was not shut after another death there last month.
With this argument, every road in the UK should now be shut after any deaths from car accidents.
This is the raw emotion coming out of family however.
Its down to people taking responsibility for their own actions, something that this H&S mad world actually encourages (to some degree) people not to do.
However, the world has changed.
Youtube makes it easy for people to see people having fun in the sea, so people want a bit of it, in years gone by they might not have thought about it.
Cheap wet suits/body boards etc make the sea much more accessible than it used to be.
I was at my local beach, it has horrific 6ft+ shore dump onto cobbles in places at high tide when the surf is good. As a local I know where to get out of the sea(it's still a little tricky but timing is everything).
A few years ago a couple of new teenagers turned up on a big day. They both chose to exit the sea at the wrong spot, one got lucky but the second got sucked into the dump by his board and leash. We stood on the beach about 6ft from him completely unable to help as he got repeatedly pounded by the waves into the stones. Thankfully there was a lull and we dragged the now semi concious teenager out. We got him back to the car park where he came too and he was covered in cuts, chipped his front teeth and his board was wrecked but at least he was still alive.
Bloody horrible watching someone get a pounding and knowing you're powerless to help.
There has been an online for lifeguards at Camber for the last month. It's been suggested that the car parking charges could cover the cost.
https://www.change.org/p/get-lifeguards-at-camber-sands-beach-during-summer
Rother District Council have now announced that there will be lifeguards at Camber this bank holiday.
How many know what the red flags mean? There are probably signs about saying what they mean but some people don't read signs. If you travel a long way to a beach then I suppose some will just want to go in anyway.
Can't help those types really - so do we let them take their risks?
Sorry but if the tide goes out 1.5miles, and takes roughly 6 hours to come back in, then I make that 0.25mph, not 3mph???
It wouldn't take 6 hours to just soak the beach though, it would take 6 hours to rise up to 11 metres - you'd be completely out of your depth in places only 90 minutes after the tide started to turn. By the time the water reached the top of your legs you'd have a very hard time out running it.
Yes I understand that, my point is that in a group peer pressure can make people take risks they'd never take alone.Teenagers are biologically hard wired to take risks
My daughters friend decided he'd take the risk of paddling in the sea, had there been no one there to watch him take the risk I'm not sure he would have done it.
I've always tried to step back if I see my kids doing something where if it goes wrong it's going to hurt but basically you'll be fine and to step in if the consequences are going to be serious. Not always easy of course.
I agree with you avdave - peer pressure can increase risk taking.
However, my work and others research says that peer pressure and herd mentality can be turned to work in favour - making good decisions.
I have worked on so many DofE trips, teenage days out on rivers/bikes/hills etc, and I have seen large groups stand up and make good decisions - but only where a couple of the group or more have had opportunity to experience risk.
This is a really practical thing. When do we allow our children out to places like parks to play unsupervised? When do we allow them to journey on their own? When do we allow them to climb trees?
If we wait too long, they are 18 years old, leaving home and suddenly have to make *big* judgements and decisions for themselves....
No right or wrong here, just a feeling I have as parent (and someone involved in education) that I have to do this, even though it is scary.
If we wait too long, they are 18 years old, leaving home and suddenly have to make *big* judgements and decisions for themselves....
I completely agree with this H&S has reduced exposure to risk, and also passed personal exposure of risk on to someone else.
H&S has reduced exposure to risk,
Let us be clear - 'H&S' has not. Certainly the HSE has not.
The interpretation of 'H&S', the application of practices designed for offshore oil rig operations to education (as an example we are arguing through at the moment) and the fear of litigation has had an impact.
HSE say 'risk is good in education' and 'get out and do it'....I even have them speaking at my conference on striking a balance when managing risk in education in a few weeks about this.
It's a tragic event no doubting especially as it doesn't sound like there were extreme conditions involved and the beach was busy with other people.
However, as to the safety aspect, more people die on the roads each year and they remain open and un-guarded.
The classic sandy beach shape has a dip just off the shore then a sand bar further out. People get onto this and as the tide rises they find themselves separated from the shore by a channel.
classy stuff from the sun
[img] 
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[quote=ernie_lynch ]There has been an online for lifeguards at Camber for the last month. It's been suggested that the car parking charges could cover the cost.
> https://www.change.org/p/get-lifeguards-at-camber-sands-beach-during-summer
Rother District Council have now announced that there will be lifeguards at Camber this bank holiday.
Five or six lifeguards apparently, it's going to be kind of tricky covering a beach that big with that many. I'm kind of glad I'm not one of them - it seems they're going to be asked to do something well outside their normal remit if they're expected to provide cover on an expanse of beach rather than within a carefully defined flagged swimming area. I'm not sure those calling for lifeguards understand exactly what it is they're asking for and how many you'd realistically need to cover that expanse properly (the lifeguarded beach I've used most they have about that many lifeguards covering 200m-300m).
The five or six lifeguards is in addition to local authority beach patrol teams. I have no idea of the logistics involved, hopefully the RNLI and Rother District Council have.
Then you have this ****wit.
http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/22/rnli-crews-had-some-choice-words-for-woman-rescued-three-times-in-four-days-6082443/
The beach patrol teams aren't lifeguards, so it's not really in addition. I expect they do have an idea about the logistics and know that it's a nominal exercise in reassurance than providing a useful lifeguard service on a 7 mile expanse of beach.
The beach patrol teams aren't lifeguards, so it's not really in addition.
Well it's precisely because beach patrol teams aren't lifeguards that they are 'in addition' to lifeguards.
Although I do appreciate your attempt to correct grammar, I know it can be poor.
The classic sandy beach shape has a dip just off the shore then a sand bar further out. People get onto this and as the tide rises they find themselves separated from the shore by a channel.
The sand bars move about and the channel seems quite deep at the moment...
The beach at BoS/Berrow/Brean doesn't have this, what it does have, though, are constantly moving mud flats, sometimes covered with a thin film of sand, and the mud is often up to waist-deep - even when it's only up over your ankles it's so slippery that it reduces the speed you can walk to barely more than a crawl, and when the tide is running and you're getting on towards a mile from the high-tide line, I don't think I need to spell out why it's so dangerous.
Before Lelaina drowned, all the rescue teams had were basically boards to slide out onto the mud, and a helicopter as a last resort, the inshore lifeboats clearly being useless.
Now they have two small hovercraft, the original big one has been retired due to mechanical issues, and it was often too big to manoeuvre easily on the mud, or along the tidal sections of local rivers like the Parrett, where equally stupid people try to cross thinking its a shortcut from Brean to Uphill and Weston, and getting stuck waist-deep in the mud.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
BARBs newest hovercraft, [i]Spirit Of Lelaina II[/i], replacement for their first, covered 'craft
[IMG] 
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Their first small 'craft, [i]Light Of Elizabeth[/i], named after Lelaina's sister. Lelaina would be 19 now, if they've been able to rescue her from the mud...
Further to the above:
http://burnham-on-sea.com/news/2016/mud-trio-weston-beach-27-08-16.php
Not quite beach, but sea water related...Rob Warner nearly got chopped up by a massive boat today
[url=
legend does crazy [/url]
If you were that monumentally ****ing stupid would you really post the evidence on the internet or did he do it just to reinforce his radness?
crazy legend does crazy
Absolute arsehole. What was he trying to do?
There is a lot judging and more than a bit of superciliousness on this thread. I'm pretty sure when we went to the beach as kids and teenagers we did not know better and similarly no more or less evidence to base risk. And like the large majority of this Island's population I did not live by the sea and was only exposed during holidays. So it was then, so it is now.
Some lads got unlucky doing exactly the sort of thing me, my mates (35 years)or any group if teenagers could have been caught out with. It is a tragic accident, there should be a sensible discussion about lifeguarding, but ultimately an acceptance that there is also risk with the sea.
Would also be interested to see some stats on relative risks on all this...
One of my earliest memories of the beach is getting cut off by the tide at camber and being carried through a deep channel by a helpful stranger. I think I was with my older sister and some friends. Looking back at it, could have so easily been another headline.
And as for rob Warner. ****.
Not quite beach, but sea water related...Rob Warner nearly got chopped up by a massive boat today
crazy legend does crazy
What a bellend
This photo shows the issue of sandbars at Camber well
[img] 
[/img]
It's easy to see the potential for not just being stranded from the shore by a fast moving incoming tide, but also for the potential of rip currents being formed if the sea ploughs out a channel across a sandbar.
**** me, what a bellend Warner is!
A couple of years ago on a lovely day at Watergate Bay, the RNLI (who provide a service on this beach) had a stall for membership at the entrance to the beach. The beach was packed. When we left we stopped to chat to the RNLI guys and join up. They said we there the 3rd family to do so in the whole day.
RNLI do get paid by councils to patrol beaches though don't they? As far as I know Its not voluntary in the sense that they're contracted by councils and staff are paid. The discretion lies with the the local authorities.
And that Rob Warner video really does make him look like a prat. Inept at jet skiing and stupid.
^^ beautiful beach Camber Sands.
You can see why we use it..
But olddog, we're not talking about children and teenagers, we're talking about adults not paying attention to clear warnings.
It's the job of parents to make sure children don't go out of their depth, or are allowed to go off the beach on cheap inflatables.
In the case of Camber, it's a bit less clear-cut, because of the way the beach forms bars, with deeper channels in between, as the photo above shows, but at other places, like BoS/Brean and Morcambe Bay, where there's a huge area of exposed sand and mud at low tide, there is no excuse for adults ignoring all the advice given to them in a pamphlet when they get their ticket onto the beach, and the signs on the beach.
And I repeat, I'm not a coastal dweller, I live at least fifty miles from the nearest stretch of salt water, but I've been aware of the dangers of the coast since at least the 70's, when I used to see the dead carcasses of cars stuck in the mud at BoS.
Bet the lifeguards in the SW and s wales had a busy day today.. big southerly groundswell + Bank holiday + nice day = chaos in the waves
A couple of them were teenagers, but all were young. My sense is that they got unlucky and five young lads dying is always a tragedy
I am very aware of the risks of the sea having surfed for 30 years, but equally how many millions spend time on the beach safely each year.
I really would like to see some stats on the relative safety of beach and sea activities versus other comparable activities so there could be a sensible discussion of risk. How many people die in accidents on the way to beach/coast as opposed to in the water I wonder.
Our first year in 7 that we haven't made the trip to North Cornwall this year. We as derbyshire dwellers are probably as far as you can get from the sea in everyday life, but I think we've got a pretty good idea of how to respect the sea. Red flags are red flags, no amount of whining from the kids in those years has seen them in the sea in those conditions. Both excellent swimmers who've done up to survival level in the pool before starting big school, laddo at 9, but that's a flat bottomed nice temperature no swell environment, I've seen my daughter dumped off her board in 3ft of water and come up as though she's drowning on the spot. It amazes me how many people with kids have no idea where they are in the sea, just because they're between the flags doesn't mean they're immune. I feel for the lifeguards patrolling as a lot of folk think they know better, and a lot of the time they're the ones who've shot across the m4 or headed down the m5 like us, you rarely see the locals (and you can certainly spot the odd one) in any kind of dangerous situation.
you rarely see the locals (and you can certainly spot the odd one) in any kind of dangerous situation.
That's cause they don't come out to play on the beaches with lifeguards, or if they do its after they've gone home.
Red flags are advisory, despite what the lifeguards will tell you.
Hmm, I'm used to getting wet, being upside down in my kayak with some regularity recently. Anyway, I reckon I'm a reasonable swimmer. That's when I'm swimming in a pool. When I'm dressed, even with my floatation jacket on, I find it exhausting to swim in moving water.
I went over yesterday at the Cardiff White water Centre. Within 20 seconds I was struggling. It's a pretty safe environment, as there are people patrolling the banks, when they get a capsize, they throw a line to them, so you can pull yourself out. Without the rope, I would have just had to let the flow take me, as there is no way you can swim against it, and even swimming with the flow is hard - you go under regularly even with your bouyancy aid on. Anyone without that additional floatation would be stuffed in short order.I reckon a minute tops, and you'd just sink and die.
Myself and my daughter were smashed across a pebble beach last week, we both suffered cuts and bruising. Its a beach weve been swimming from for years, she learned to swim there and we are both good strong swimmers and who normally make decent risk assesments.
I would say a combination of strengthening winds shifting direction and an aready difficult shoreline made a slight misjudgment in our part potentially very serious.
With hinsight I think we were lucky to get away with a few scrapes had we not known the beach it could have been worse fro sure.
It's the sea FFS!
It's dangerous just like mountains. It is not societies job to tell people what they should not do. Parents, yes.
We all make mistakes, I have come very close to serious consequences mores than once in the sea and the hills but that was my fault. No one else's and to expect society to tell me what to do is pathetic and immoral.
Red flags are advisory, despite what the lifeguards will tell you.
They might be in the UK, no idea if that's true or not, but as a word of warning in Spain they're not - and you can be fined up to 2000€ if you get into trouble and need rescuing.
It's the sea FFS!
It's dangerous just like mountains. It is not societies job to tell people what they should not do. Parents, yes.
We all make mistakes, I have come very close to serious consequences mores than once in the sea and the hills but that was my fault. No one else's and to expect society to tell me what to do is pathetic and immoral.
I take it that you don't approve of red flags which are presumably pathetic and immoral ?
alanl - Member
It's a pretty safe environment, as there are people patrolling the banks, when they get a capsize, they throw a line to them, so you can pull yourself out. Without the rope, I would have just had to let the flow take me, as there is no way you can swim against it, and even swimming with the flow is hard - you go under regularly even with your bouyancy aid on.
It is not a *safe* environment - it may be *safer* than a natural river.
Have you done any training/WWSR course? It sounds like it would help.
Yes, done FSR and WWSR.
That doesnt help you when you're under water and constantly being covered in waves, you do your best to keep your head up, but there is still a chance of getting a mouthful of water, especially when you go over a drop.
I was caught under a raft. Not a problem usually, but where it was, I struggled to pull my skirt up,due the the current pulling me back, then when I got out, was straight into a drop. I was only under the water maybe 15 seconds, but, as always, it seemed longer. I surfaced, then went under again through a wave.
My point is, I'm pretty used to doing it, and know what to do, anyone who was out in the water in normal clothes, and not expecting to be fully immersed could very soon be in trouble.
I agree - water is a harsh and unforgiving environment.
Cardiff is a shallow and fast course, there are no pools in the flow after the play spot which makes it hard to do much once you're in.
Another beautiful day on the south coast.
Beaches full of families and friends, all playing in the sea.
Fabulous.