[Closed] BBC micro:bit

That's pretty cool actually.

The actual tech isn't anything particularly radical, but the penetration that they're aiming for is brilliant. "up to 1 million devices will be given to every 11 or 12 year old child in year 7 or equivalent across the UK, for free."

Very cool.

Seems to tread into Arduino/Raspberry Pi territory - especially the Pi for learning in schools etc. But a bit of competition is always good.

Yeah, I thought that, but it's a nice compact little 'all in 1' device rather than needing add-ons to get started.

The RasPi doesn't [i]need[/i] add-ons to get started either really.

Obviously a screen, keyboard and mouse are helpful unless you are just going to remote into it.

But the micro:bit actually requires a whole other PC/tablet to program it, whereas the Pi is self-contained.

Reading the list of suppliers and backers on [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/entries/39ad813f-9863-403f-8b7f-63ebdd5a7569 ]the BBC blog entry[/url] it sounds like they've got all the right people involved for it to be a success.

[quote=wwaswas said]
Why the Tories want to get stop this sort of innovation and public service by the BBC to stop is beyond me

Sauce ?

So if you need a PC/Phone/tablet and wifi or bluetoooth to make it do it's thing, why not just teach the programming and interaction on the pc/phone/tablet?

So if you need a PC/Phone/tablet and wifi or bluetoooth to make it do it's thing, why not just teach the programming and interaction on the pc/phone/tablet?

Fancy having wires and bits soldered onto your iPad?

So if you need a PC/Phone/tablet and wifi or bluetoooth to make it do it's thing, why not just teach the programming and interaction on the pc/phone/tablet?

This has LEDs and buttons. From experience in code clubs with small children, they can do some coding in Python or something and thats OK, but real interest really builds when lights start flashing and buttons are pressed and noise is made.

Why the Tories want to get stop this sort of innovation and public service by the BBC to stop is beyond me

They don't - Tony Hall was on the Today programme this morning saying the changes will be cash flat. Transferring responsibility for administering licences to the people who collect it should make it simpler to administrate (therefore cheaper), likewise for the transfer back to government of the broadband top slice, plus the BBC can solve the iplayer problem. All in all, pragmatic changes to correct anomalies that arose due to tinkering by recent governments.

"Tories Go to War on BBC" is hardly emollient stuff is it?

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11598450/Tories-go-to-war-with-the-BBC.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11598450/Tories-go-to-war-with-the-BBC.html[/url]

We'll see what a 25% cut in the BBC budget over the next 5 years achieves but this sort of project may well be seen as ideal for pruning.

The guy who runs the BBC says it is cash flat i.e. no reduction in budget that telegraph story is nearly two months old

Reading the list of suppliers and backers on the BBC blog entry it sounds like they've got all the right people involved for it to be a success.

Makes me smile that right at the top of the list there is ARM.

[quote="GrahamS"]But the micro:bit actually requires a whole other PC/tablet to program it, whereas the Pi is self-contained.
What proportion of year 7 kids live in a household that does not have a PC or tablet ? Genuine question, but my guess is very few.

Of course the BBC is laying off a load of people because they are losing money as people are watching online only now - and most of them appear to be on this forum!

That whole iplayer bit of not needing a license is screwed up - surely you pay a license so that you can see the content over-air, so why make it available for free via other means?

Maybe the license fee needs to be a 'subscription' fee that entitles you to watch over-air or on alternate media, but there should be some other form of fee for only watching on alternate media - else how are they going to keep going with no income?

What proportion of year 7 kids live in a household that does not have a PC or tablet ? Genuine question, but my guess is very few.

Proportion of schoolkids that don't have some form of access, be that via friends / school / library, even fewer I'd guess.

That whole iplayer bit of not needing a license is screwed up - surely you pay a license so that you can see the content over-air, so why make it available for free via other means?

You pay a licence fee to watch or record TV as it is broadcast, the delivery mechanism is irrelevant. If you were to watch a live broadcast on iPlayer, you'd need a licence for it. The stuff that's free is the programming made available at a later date.

Maybe the license fee needs to be a 'subscription' fee that entitles you to watch over-air or on alternate media, but there should be some other form of fee for only watching on alternate media - else how are they going to keep going with no income?

Which they will be allowed to do under the new package of measures that has been agreed.

Fancy having wires and bits soldered onto your iPad?

Back in the day(late 80s), my degree project was using a BBC micro with a self build A/D & D/A module accessed through the printer port circuitry where the computer ran a real time simulation of thermal loads such as furnaces and vacuum presses for testing of industrial temperature controllers.

Today there's plenty of sensor and actuation kit you can run from a USB or Apple Lightning port for real world integration. For me the breakthrough comes not with the buttons, lights and buzzers in the classroom, but in making the switch from looking at the devices you carry everyday as being tools to consume other peoples content, but where you can write your own apps and widgets, and make that into a learning habit.

re the licence. WHen it was first created it was a licence for the use of the equipment necessary to receive or record live broadcast from the national broadcaster.

As we know, that income was hypothecated (the only tax in the country to be so hypothecated) to fund the BBC's production of those broadcasts.

Even when commercial stations began, the licence was still to watch live broadcast of ANY UK broadcast, whether BBC or commercial. You cant detune BBC stations, watch Dave, and not use a licence.

It will be interesting how they implement the mooted licence changes. Since unless they make the watching of ANY online/timeslip service illegal without a licence, then they are changing the licence model to the specific consumption of BBC broadcasts for the first time (the change of medium is almost of less significance).

So if you watch live of timeslipped, 4OD, ITV Player, TVCatchup, 6 seconds Vine highlight etc etc, will you be caught under the new licence? How will they police the iPlayer? Will every licence owner have to log in with an ID? How many devices will be covered? Sky for e.g. limit Sky Now to 3 devices with 30 day change over, others (As far as I can tell Eurosport is one) dont.

it will be interesting to see if they can implement the changes without attempting to encompass the whole online video consumption market, or making BBC consumption online more time consuming/difficult than the competition.

Today there's plenty of sensor and actuation kit you can run from a USB or Apple Lightning port for real world integration. For me the breakthrough comes not with the buttons, lights and buzzers in the classroom, but in making the switch from looking at the devices you carry everyday as being tools to consume other peoples content, but where you can write your own apps and widgets, and make that into a learning habit.

And then what do you do? Leave your tablet plugged in running you temperature/humidity/access control/wearable gizmo thing?

Wake up grandad, it's called the Internet of things. We're about to plunge into the trough of disillusionment 😉

The guy who runs the BBC says it is cash flat i.e. no reduction in budget

'Cash flat' my arse. They have been forced to swallow it in exchange for the licence fee rising with inflation. The BBC have been saddled with the costs, but have no agency i.e. they cannot decide to start charging the over-75s, so in effect the BBC is paying for a Tory election pledge with a *further* budget cut. Of course Hall is trying to put a brave face on it, but it's a scandal.

Can adults get them? Can't see anything in BBC link to say you can buy them...

I expect that if they do go up for public sale, it'll be after they've produced sufficient quantities for the schools. A million units out of the gate is a big enough ask I'd have thought.

The stuff that's free is the programming made available at a later date.

yes, precisely - why should it be free - if everyone watched online at a later date then program making would soon stop, or need to be advert funded.

Seems to tread into Arduino/Raspberry Pi territory - especially the Pi for learning in schools etc. But a bit of competition is always good.

Cool! My eldest will be receiving one so we might well have a play.

May as skip the toy and get stuck in with a proper langange (Python) on a device that has almost limitless possibilities and will stand the test of time.

The Python Software Foundation is listed as one of the product champions, so I guess the programming language may be pretty familiar.

Used the original BBC Micro to learn programming at poly. Ended up writing a programme to take data off the department's XRF machine

Couldn't do it now mind, although I still try to use the logic steps in my everyday work

But can you play Elite?

Why the Tories want to get stop this sort of innovation and public service by the BBC to stop is beyond me

Because they owe Murdoch, and killing off bits of the BBC is his payment.

[quote=sharkbait ]I don't really get why they're doing it when the Pi is so successful.
May as skip the toy and get stuck in with a proper langange (Python) on a device that has almost limitless possibilities and will stand the test of time.

It's not really anything like a Pi though, and serves a different purpose. Not only that, but things have moved on since the Pi, at least partly driven by its existence, which opens the way for something like this. Each has their place and I think we should welcome this as adding rather than diluting the possibilities.

[quote=GrahamS ]The RasPi doesn't need add-ons to get started either really.
Obviously a screen, keyboard and mouse are helpful unless you are just going to remote into it.
But the micro:bit actually requires a whole other PC/tablet to program it, whereas the Pi is self-contained.

I'm sure I'm far from the only hobbyist who uses a RPi headless, hence requiring much the same environment as this. It's also a bit disingenuous to suggest you don't need add ons for a RPi - if you aren't going to remote into it, then you really need a screen and keyboard.

I'm sure I'm far from the only hobbyist who uses a RPi headless, hence requiring much the same environment as this

I don't see that as a huge difference, especially not given where it's aimed at. A RPi can't connect to the internet by itself either - it needs ethernet or wifi (and for wifi it needs a dongle) - it's just that in your world those are ubiquitous. In the world of pre-teen kids, BT connections are just about as ubiquitous. Not that you need to connect to the internet to do things - my main RPi project can be controlled over wifi, but can also be left to work standalone.

Can you BT from a device to a router? Not seen that.
You may not [i]need[/i] your device connected to the internet but it sure does make them a lot more interesting.
I have 4 pi's reading temperatures/solar productivity and controlling heat and all are connected to internet.
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/j6zPH0QxkZ5725aG28WtkvT299hlzm9eT7p7HzACbncb=w1361-h765-no [/img]

Of course one interesting aspect is that you can always just connect a micro:bit to a RasPi (or Arduino, MSP430, etc).

[genuine question] What would that get you?

Same as any other Hat/Cape/Shield, some extra sensors and outputs in an nice packaged format, and probably with a suitable library to support them.

I've just bought a couple of ESP8266 modules, these things look great! A system on a chip with Wifi and TCP/IP stack. It can host applications too.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13252

No need to connect it up to an Arduino etc (although you can if your app has more complex requirements), this thing can run your app, integrate with sensors and send data to the web. Not bad for about £3 a go.

First project is a temperature logger.

Nice one! Temp loggers are great - see my image above, although my Pi's produce their own graphs I do like the above log visualisation provided by [url= http://initialstate.com ]Initial State[/url].

I was around for the last BBC micro and FWIW I think the BBC should butt out now (as they should have then).
If this is really a different market segment then let Raspberry fill it with an appropriate new model.

Raspberry is generating a huge up-swell in hobby coding unseen since my Sinclair fanboi days. Why cut that fan-base and all of the online forums & help sources in half.

This is not a hardware war (Playstation vs Xbox or 26"vs 29"). Its more like choosing Spanish vs Esperanto and then spending the next 3 years of your life learning it

The BBC thing will be in just UK and as such will ultimately fizzle out. The Pi has a huge following worldwide and ain't going anywhere soon.

Older coverage from the Grauniad: [url= http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/12/bbc-micro-bit-raspberry-pi ]BBC Micro Bit will complement Raspberry Pi not compete with it (March 2015)[/url].

This is not a hardware war (Playstation vs Xbox or 26"vs 29"). Its more like choosing Spanish vs Esperanto and then spending the next 3 years of your life learning it

True, but one of the powerful facts of hardware and software is that there is so much variety.

I wouldn't want kids growing up thinking Esperanto was the [i]only[/i] language. Or that Spain was the only country. 😀

It's a growing market sector with varieties of Arduino, RasPi and CHIP.

From what I gather the micro:bit is probably closer to an Arduino than a RasPi, i.e. it sounds like it is an easily-programmable embedded device rather than RasPi which runs a full OS (if it wants to).

I am a [i]little bit[/i] uncomfortable with the BBC using its position to flood the market with a million free devices. But if it gets more kids into it then fair play - I certainly benefited from access to the original BBC Micro when I was a lad.

The BBC thing will be in just UK

So was the Pi when it started though.

Indeed it was - the first run was 50 pieces (I know the guy who designed and built the first batch).
I just don't really get why the BBC are doing this. There's plenty of [better] alternatives to choose from. Free stuff is always good though.

There's plenty of [better] alternatives to choose from.

Such as?

Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that has all the LEDs, switches and sensors built in like this does. It's accessible and inherently cool, 12-year old me would have exploded at the prospect.

There's plenty of [better] alternatives to choose from.

This does seem to have a unique aspect to it that the others fail at: a very simple accessible IDE and flashing routine.

(Arduino IDE comes [i]close[/i] once it is set up properly, but you still have to fanny about selecting the right board type and serial port, plug and unplug USB, etc)

It's accessible and inherently cool

Edit: just sort of answering my own question here .... if they sell them for £10 you could potentially install one in every room and have it send temp data to a central Pi that could then do something clever. Hmmm.

[quote=sharkbait said]It's accessible and inherently cool
I'm obviously missing something then as I see it as limited - unless all you want to do is make LEDs flash.

It's got accelerometer/gyroscopic sensors, input buttons and bluetooth. So you could have it communicate with a phone/tablet etc.

That's the thing. You're thinking like an adult.

The problem you'll have with your average 11 year old won't be the limitations of the device, it'll be engaging the buggers in the first place. You can do more with an Arduino or a Pi or a 'real' computer sure, but a little gizmo full of flashing lights? That's [i]awesome.[/i]

But if, in order to do more, you need to hook it up to a Pi or Arduino then would it not have been easier to just start with those in the first place - or are they 'too complicated' for that age group?

A Pi or Arduino doesn't have Bluetooth LE, accelerometer, compass, 25 LEDs and two buttons built-in though.

Yeah you can add stuff like that, either via an assortment of [url= http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/hats ]Pi Hats[/url] or [url= http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/arduino-shields ]Arduino Shields[/url] or by building your own bits on a breadboard, but that's definitely a bit more advanced and the result isn't easily wearable as a badge! (until you get further down the line and start soldering up your own circuits).

My bits and pieces arrived for my "internet of things" temperature sensor!

Now logging temperature and humidity chez pies here:-

https://www.freeboard.io/board/FF-KPV

Data coming from the kit below (blue module on right hand side = DHT11 temp/humidity sensor, mini-board facing camera with red led on is the ESP8266 Wifi module which is polling the DHT11 every 10 seconds and then posting the temp/humidty to the web via my home wireless). Left hand module on breadboard is a 3.3v PSU, red vertical module is a USB to serial module used to program the 8266, it's not active now the thing is running.
[IMG] [/IMG]

Nice! Pointless. But nice. 😀

Not pointless, I've now moved it into my beer fridge 🙂

This little 8266 device is amazing! It's now in a fridge which is in a garage attached to the house (where the wireless router is). The wireless reception in the garage is a bit ropey and this thing is sitting in a metal fridge in there 😛

Def not pointless - see below:
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/loo_aCwpva32d9uqUn1iCuh9bNdpNbzhZSVbj_1coKDz=w640-h480-no [/img]
That's one of the images created by my Raspberry Pi powered DHW temperature sensor in a house we have 107 miles away, and a drop of 50c within 10 mins showed that something was quite wrong .... Especially as we had left the house 24hrs earlier!

A drop in the air temp in that room suggested that the heat source (heat leaking from the megaflo) had been removed, so maybe there was a leak 😯

Luckily a friend was still in the village and he popped up and discovered a blown push fit connection on the hot water supply to the sink in the garage. Luckily this is the lowest room in the house by about 18" and the water was flowing out under the garage door.

Scary to think that if I had't put some system monitoring in, this could have gone unnoticed for weeks and been pretty costly in terms of water usage if nothing else!

I've now moved it into my beer fridge

I think the biggest advantage of the BBC device is that it doesn't need any technical knowledge to start out.

Teachers are not, on the whole, technologists. They don't want to muck about like a hobbyist will. they want a device they can understand in 20 minute and deliver a lesson to a class of 30 nine year olds in the knowledge that they'll get consistent, repeatable results.

The inherent flexibility of the Pi is also a huge hurdle for acceptance by generalist teachers in primary schools (and also for parents at home).

I think the bbc device is, like, Scratch - a gateway to a more complex environment. The key thing is you can do 'cool stuff' within 10 minutes of picking it up.

also, we don't all own houses that are unoccupied for weeks on end so teaching kids how to monitor the temperature of the garage might not be seen as a particular enticement to learning and exploration, it has to be said.

[quote=sharkbait said]Def not pointless - see below:

Maybe you could expand it to something like this?
Beer fridge of awesomeness

Bookmarked 🙂