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Sharkattack hit the nail on the head. Yousician is great for playing actual music but IMO not a great teaching resource. When I started I got a free Fender Play trial and then took a year at half price. Used it for about 4-5 months to get the basics but it was pretty boring stuff. It was only later after playing lots of actual music that I understood where the teaching was leading. I moved to Scott's Bass Lessons and am still there. I started back at the beginning and did the Beginners Journey all the way through. Some of it just reinforced what I knew, other bits were really informative. Currently working my way through the Blues course. It's not the cheapest but a years sub is the price of five one hour face to face lessons. You can also download workbooks and tabs to keep. Bass Buzz Beginner to Badass is a similar idea but a one off fee.
Lots of other free resources online but I don't think anything can beat a good structured program to start you off.
SBL is great but there's a lifetime of practice on there. Really deep educational courses that will teach you everything you could ever need to know. I made the mistake of diving in as a total beginner and as I said, I didn't understand the concepts and I also couldn't physically play the bloody thing yet so it was a waste of time.
Those big bass strings push back on soft, pink untrained fingers! Now I've got fingertips like conkers and I can rip up and down the fretboard a fair bit without coming out in cramps and blisters.
SBL will be there if I ever get the spare time to dedicate to it.
I started on Yousician and still use it( first song i leaned was Bad Moon Rising). Also using Ultimate Guitar, which has lots of tabs. I then started having lessons with a guitar teacher and learned a lot. They put me onto a site called RockSchool learning, which has a cheap subscription(about £40 for a year) with a 30 day trial, although my trial lasted about 5 months, lots of stuff about arpeggios, scales etc.
SBL is great but there’s a lifetime of practice on there
Totally, but the updated Beginner Journey that launched last year, is a very good three part course starting from the very basics up. Much the same as Beginner to Badass.
These courses aren’t cheap but for me they’re worth paying for.
Next time they have a big discount I'm buying a lifetime membership. Then I don't have to think about it anymore! I'll just be in for life.
Then when junior starts school and I'm 'working from home' I can start learning the theory behind what I'm already playing.
Next time they have a big discount I’m buying a lifetime membership
That's what I did just before xmas. Was half price, which after the $ to £ conversion was £394.
hmmm not got chance to practice for a few days so just doing the knowledge elements on yousician. is that all there is to it with knowledge, just the 9 steps or am i missing some progression somewhere?
gut feeling is i dont think ill get much from this other than practising songs, and that therell be better programmes out there. ill suss out some of your suggestions over the next few days.
wish id started the trial at the start of my days off now to fully test it.
I’ve been hitting a wall recently like I’ve run into a speed limit. I’ve been trying to play stuff with proper solos in or tricky little fills and finding my fingers just don’t move that fast. I’m getting there though. I always start slow and build up to it. I can feel it coming but some days I’m useless so I have a break.
A learning from sports coaching. Practise doing things properly, not fast. Accuracy of plucking, hitting the frets just behind the fret, etc. Really concentrate on getting it right.
Then leave it.
your brain starts by building neural connections and subsequently lays down insulation (myelin) around them which improves the signal. So you want first of all to lay down a really sharp and accurate connection, not a vague and muddy one. You want your fingers to do exactly the right thing, not approximately - even if approximately sounds OK for a beginner. If you're doing it wrong entirely - you'll just get better and eventually really good at doing the wrong thing.
And even without playing, the myelin insulates the signal and makes it faster and stronger.
If there's a tricky transition in a song, I isolate that and play it really slowly and deliberately, over and over. Set yourself (I do) 20 repetitions, making each one as good as possible. If you think you've nailed it after 10 - do another 10 anyway, it's repetition. If after 20 it isn't nailed down - stop. You don't want to overtrain a mucky pathway.
And then you come back a couple of days later and with no apparent effort, you just somehow got better.
Taught to me / my son by a Romanian basketball coach, and it translates, try it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myelin
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
That's what I already do to be honest but I didn't know the science behind it.
When I get stuck I don't get frustrated I just slow it right down and play every note right. Then you can set the speed to increase 5% automatically on every repetition until failure happens again. That's how I've built up to everything I've tackled so far.
I can't believe the stuff I'm playing now when I think about it.
gut feeling is i dont think ill get much from this other than practising songs,
What else do you want at this stage? Playing songs IS learning to play bass. Listen to the drums, play in time, build your strength and synchronise your hands.
Even if you could magically download all music theory straight into your brain it wouldn't be any use unless you've done the hours of actually physically playing and listening.
And then you come back a couple of days later and with no apparent effort, you just somehow got better
I found this too. I learn a lot of songs from You Tube, which has the helpful option of slowing things down without changing pitch. Then even fast difficult bass lines like Kid Charlemagne seem almost playable at 50% speed. Slowly, practicing then letting it embed in my mind overnight, I can build up to 75, 80 90, 95, and 100% - a feat that seemed impossible when I first start learning the song.
sharkattackFull Member
I play with my fingers 90% of the time. It’s more difficult to learn and everyone I know who started with a pick never bothered to play with fingers as it felt like a frustrating step backwards. Starting out with a pick is probably like doing driving lessons in an automatic.
I think I am weird then, because I can't fingerstyle guitar to save my life (or play with a plectrum argueably) but on bass I'm much more comfortable playing with fingers. I think it's because I started guitar with a pick, and bass fingerstyle.
Then you can set the speed to increase 5% automatically on every repetition until failure happens again
If it works for you, great, I would try and avoid temptation to get to where you fail. Or rather, find that point and then come back 2 or 3 steps again and focus on precision at that point.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Still some songs in my blues course that I still can’t play at full speed. Use an audio programme to as alter the speed and build up from there. If I get to a point where I feel frustrated then I move on to another tune and come back later. Some teachers say not to move on to new pieces until you’ve perfected the last, but for me, I progress better if I give it some space and come back. In my course I’ve recently gone back to the start and the improvement in my playing of early pieces is huge.
I can build up to 75, 80 90, 95, and 100%
It's also fun to try and play at 105% so that when you go back to 100% it doesn't feel quite so on the limit and you feel more in control
They put me onto a site called RockSchool learning, which has a cheap subscription(about £40 for a year) with a 30 day trial, although my trial lasted about 5 months, lots of stuff about arpeggios, scales etc.
just had a look, cant see a sub or any 'playing' resources, just books and exams?
gut feeling is i dont think ill get much from this other than practising songs,
What else do you want at this stage? Playing songs IS learning to play bass.
well i guess so, i just thought that that part of it i could get anywhere, youtube etc. i was hoping for more not theory as such, reading music etc, but beginner basics such as practising hand positions, finger positions, economical hand movements and the like. help in not twanging two strings at once, finger dexterity, you know, just basics to get comfortable with it before practicing songs. yousician seems to gloss over those with a few 1 minute soundbites with beardy bloke giving it a smug little flourish at the end 😀
so my question is, is a large catalogue of songs worth a yearly yousician sub, or is there better out there for getting better at the basics?
ill maybe cancel this trial after my 7 days is up and try the SBL trial.
Give them all a try*, I find it a very personal thing as they all have their own personalities and teaching methods. I really liked Josh’s Beginner to Badass course on BassBuzz, he’s great fun and I picked up loads and is easily my favourite. I’ve done three of Mark Smith’s courses on Talking Bass, I don’t find him as engaging, but he knows his stuff and there’s a really extensive catalogue of lessons. Luke (Become an Bassist) nice chap but it didn’t work for me. Jazz Moss (Bass Skool), very laid back, I like his easy going approach. Rich Brown (The Brown’stone) even more laid back. Dan Hawkins, nope. Scott’s Bass Lessons, there’s a reason Danny Sapko constantly takes the piss, so also no. Oh, and Fender Play is like having your teeth pulled imho. Good luck.
*All of these people have a YouTube presence.
This tells you how to get on rockschool learning
its becoming clear i need some headphones to plug into the amp so i dont annoy the wife in the evenings whilst she's reading.
should i just get the cheapest ones i can find, or are there fairly decent ones for not much more.
oh and same question for a stand. ebay mucho cheapo? or something a bit better?
thanks
what's the point? I'll probably never play outside the house, I'm hardly going to compose any music.
Don’t underestimate yourself! There’s so much to be said for just noodling about trying to find cool riffs or chord changes (like putting together sequences of eighth note roots). Embrace that punk mindset - anyone can write a song (or parts for a song)!
Coming up with new music is a strange thing - so much of the time I’m just messing about and cool parts just pop into existence. It feels like they’re things that that always existed and were just waiting for someone to find them.
I've just got some cheap Roland headphones. I'll check the exact model later but they have a really long wire and come with the jack adapter you need for your amp.
They were less than £30.
Well, for everyone who might have thought that I was dead or something, I’m not......
Still doing some playing, although not as much as I would like - gigs aren’t that easy to come by.
Basses that I’m mainly using now are Peavey RJIV (very rare this side of the Atlantic), Peavey Rudy Sarzo signature (ex Rudy Sarzo) with Glockenklang three band EQ and coil switching and a GR Lasido fretless with Zeta Piezo bridge, Andreas Richter buffer stage (with trim pots for each string) and John East two band EQ. The two Peaveys are 1990, and the GR is, I think, 1987.
Amplification I’m using TC Electronics RH450, RH750 and Blacksmith heads with an assortment of RS cabs to choose from (2x10, 2x12, 1x12). Mostly I use 1x12 (x2or3) and a 2x10 driven by another head.
It seems, at the minute, I can’t attach files otherwise I’d post a few bass photos.......
Well, for everyone who might have thought that I was dead or something, I’m not......
Still doing some playing, although not as much as I would like - gigs aren’t that easy to come by.
Basses that I’m mainly using now are Peavey RJIV (very rare this side of the Atlantic), Peavey Rudy Sarzo signature (ex Rudy Sarzo) with Glockenklang three band EQ and coil switching and a GR Lasido fretless with Zeta Piezo bridge, Andreas Richter buffer stage (with trim pots for each string) and John East two band EQ. The two Peaveys are 1990, and the GR is, I think, 1987.
Amplification I’m using TC Electronics RH450, RH750 and Blacksmith heads with an assortment of RS cabs to choose from (2x10, 2x12, 1x12). Mostly I use 1x12 (x2or3) and a 2x10 driven by another head.
It seems, at the minute, I can’t attach files otherwise I’d post a few bass photos.......
I've just got some cheap Roland headphones. I'll check the exact model later but they have a really long wire and come with the jack adapter you need for your amp.
They were less than £30.
thanks, id be interested in finding out what options there are with a proper jack.
Photos for you -
Peavey RJIV Randy Jackson signature - never imported into Europe, so scarce this side of the Atlantic. Possibly the nicest bass Peavey ever made. Mine has Babicz FCH bridge. Hipshot drop D tuner.
Peavey Rudy Sarzo signature - this one has Glockenklang three band EQ preamp (not the Dynabass pre) and coil switching for both pickups. Both of these changes transform the bass. Hipshot drop D tuner..
GL Lasido Z1 - with Zeta Piezo bridge, Andreas Richter buffer stage with trim pots for each string and John East two band preamp.
Photos for you, if anyone's interested in this old crap.....
Peavey RJIV Randy Jackson signature. Possibly the nicest fretted bass that I've ever played...
Peavey Rudy Sarzo signature, with Glockenklang three band EQ and coil switching for each pickup. Another real gem
GL Lasido Z1 with Zeta piezo bridge, Andreas Richter buffer stage (with trim pots for each string) and John East two band EQ.
Anything you want to know, ask away....
My three most-used basses -
Peavey RJIV Randy Jackson signature
Peavey Rudy Sarzo signature
GR Lasido Z1
When I've got more time I'll go back to SBL and learn some theory. But then I think what's the point? I'll probably never play outside the house, I'm hardly going to compose any music.
How much do you know? Do you understand the notation of timings for instance? Would you be able to play a basic blues without any tab in front of you? I've no ambitions of playing in a band either, but I've learned enough in a year that I came play along to a 12 bar blues, even if it is just root notes and arpeggio combinations. Can spend ages just playing along to a backing track. A little amount of knowledge can make even starting off a lot more fun.
My three most-used basses -
Peavey RJIV Randy Jackson signature
Peavey Rudy Sarzo signature
GR Lasido Z1
Nice! Peavey at their best is so good (and even their stuff that doesn’t sound so great is usually super reliable). They did a monster 400W valve head a while back, and one of the first 1000W+ class D 1U power amps.
Does the fretless sound more like an acoustic or double bass as it doesn’t have magnetic pickups?
I seem to work sequentially with basses - I had a Hohner Jack (PJ passive 4) as my main bass for 3 years, then my ‘87 Warwick Streamer for about 8 years, then a custom 36” scale five for 13 years but I wasn’t playing so much through much of that and then a Stingray Special for the last 5 (but that’s lived in the studio and I’ve had a cheap EADGC acoustic five at home and more recently a Jack Casady Signature as my home bass).
I still have all the other basses and they do get used a fair bit but rarely for my own band/writing.
are the 3.5mm to 6.35mm ebay jack adaptors any good for plugging into the amp if i can scrounge some normal headphones off a mate?
This had to be the most difficult forum to post on - I apologise for my multiple posts, but there seems to be a massive delay between my posting something and it actually appearing.....
Nice! Peavey at their best is so good (and even their stuff that doesn’t sound so great is usually super reliable). They did a monster 400W valve head a while back, and one of the first 1000W+ class D 1U power amps.
Does the fretless sound more like an acoustic or double bass as it doesn’t have magnetic pickups?
The GR bass (which is basically Godin, before that brand existed, as such) should have had the Zeta preamp but that had died long before I owned it - when I bought it the outputs from each bridge saddle were run in parallel into the John East preamp, which worked after a fashion but there was no way of balancing string outputs and the input of the preamp was a lower impedance than piezos like to “see”.
I asked John East if he could build me a buffer stage with trim pots - he put me in touch with Andreas Richter in Germany, who had one already designed. String balance is finicky with the piezos - they’re very sensitive to how much you “dig in” while playing, to how far up the neck you are, to changes in string gauge, hand position - all of these things......
Soundwise - it sounds much as it does unamplified, in the basic character of the sound, you have to be careful not to dial in too much bass - it’s a bass that benefits from some sort of HPF (or an amplifier with the right sort of characteristics). It’s a swamp ash body, so it’s light (around 7lbs) even though it’s not chambered of anything.
If the Zeta bridge ever dies, then I suppose the Hipshot piezo bridge would be the way to go - although Zeta still make bridges for electric violins (and complete instruments, as used by Jean Luc Ponty) they don’t make spares for that bridge any more - they were always known for being fragile, and it’s forty years old, so......
I don’t get the chance to use it as much as I’d like, although the band that I’m in play some Jack Bruce stuff and I sometimes use it for that - nobody notices that it’s fretless, to be honest. Over the years I’ve played fretless bass in all kinds of “inappropriate” situations and nobody’s ever had any objections.
If you ever get a chance to buy one of those Peavey RJIVs, then just do it - it’s a rare bass superbly constructed - neck through, three band EQ with variable mid and treble shelving (via a switch on the PCB), active p’ups (which some say are rebranded EMGs - they certainly look and sound like it). I like the Sarzo almost as much, but they’re very different and the RJIV is more versatile. You could use it at any gig, any style, and make it sound good.
are the 3.5mm to 6.35mm ebay jack adaptors any good for plugging into the amp if i can scrounge some normal headphones off a mate?
Yep, but treat yourself to a pair of AKG headphones. The AKG K52 is a closed back (so doesn't annoy anyone else) has a decent length cable and comes with a jack adapter. They're studio quality reference 'phones and cost 30 quid on Amazon. They're also light and comfy with a self-adjusting headband.
It is quite comical how the posts appear to not quite be in chronological order - it’s like it’s been infected by the plague of social media algorithms…
On the bass front, I’ve been doing a pedalboard sort recently - it’s been a state of messy limbo with leads all over the place and the Velcro falling off so I have to carry it around like a tea tray! I bought a very silly pedal because it was cheap for what it is, took the board apart, rearranged it around the new pedal and then realised that the new pedal is too niche in its uses and too huge to claim a permanent space on the board.
It’s the enormous one in the middle here:
Yep, but treat yourself to a pair of AKG headphones. The AKG K52 is a closed back (so doesn't annoy anyone else) has a decent length cable and comes with a jack adapter. They're studio quality reference 'phones and cost 30 quid on Amazon. They're also light and comfy with a self-adjusting headband.
thanks, just ordered those.
and to think I wrote this about our trebley friends a couple of weeks ago
As well as what the amp and cab sound like, most guitarists don't send the signal from the guitar to the amp, it goes through one or more effects pedals on the way that take the electronic signal and perform all sorts of sophisti****ery with it to give a modified sound. Look at the guitarists thread on here and marvel at their pedal board obsession. Most of the signature guitar sounds you recognise are only partly the guitar - if you can find a BBC documentary Lenny Kaye - On Guitar it delves into this or there's loads on youtube. Or ask a guitarist friend (but block out most of the day for the answer)
Bill Bailey does a great sketch about what happens to U2 when the Edge’s effects fail.
I’m still getting to grips with my HX Stomp. Way more than I actually need, but so easy to try different things out. Favourite is chorus, followed by some mild fuzz or distortion. Also have a Darkglass Vintage Microtubes, but run the drive fairly low and use it just to colour my tone a little.
I'd be happy to just be able to pluck the right string or feel happy with my hand position on the fretboard 😁
Have you followed any basic exercises? Get a metronome app, there are loads of free ones. Practice just playing a note over and over again on the beat. You’ll be bored of that after two minutes, so look up some beginner tabs. Another one bites the dust and Come as you are, are both easy and recognisable. Both very short but you’ll already know the timings and so all you have worry about is the notes. It will take time, but don’t get frustrated and keep at it. I’m playing stuff I couldn’t imagine when I started 15 months ago.
Back in the day, of course, we bass players didn’t use much in the way of effects - I’m including the likes of Jack Bruce, Andy Fraser, Felix Pappalardi, Mel Schacher, Richard McCracken, all early influences/ contemporaries of mine.
I still use next to nothing now - my board just consists of Boss OC-2, TC Corona Chorus and Vortex Flanger, EBS two band compressor (which is always on) and that’s it. I use TC Electronic RH series heads (which have great compression and tube emulation anyway) so I don’t feel I’m lacking anything. I can’t be doing with multi-effect processors - have had a few and given up with them.
But then I’m not only old school, I’m just old, been playing for 55 years and old habits are hard (or impossible) to break.
Have you followed any basic exercises?
been at work for 5 days so tomorrow is first of 4 days off so my practice starts in the morning.
Get a metronome app, there are loads of free ones. Practice just playing a note over and over again on the beat.
got one on my tuner so i'll try that, thanks.
got my guitar strap today, funny how it changes things you wouldnt expect. standing up, the fretboards directly flat rather than angled up a little on my knee if you know what i mean. it means i cant really see the lower strings that well when i need to play 3rd fret on D string for instance. i'll really need a lot of practice at left hand and finger positions, 2 finger strumming, identifying which string to play etc before trying bass tabs.
i also dont understand the relevance or importance of 'triads' say, or 'perfect 5ths', and why theyd help create tunes. (yes ive been reading a lot, and watching videos 😀 )
Have you followed any basic exercises?
been at work for 5 days so tomorrow is first of 4 days off so my practice starts in the morning.
Get a metronome app, there are loads of free ones. Practice just playing a note over and over again on the beat.
got one on my tuner so i'll try that, thanks.
got my guitar strap today, funny how it changes things you wouldnt expect. standing up, the fretboards directly flat rather than angled up a little on my knee if you know what i mean. it means i cant really see the lower strings that well when i need to play 3rd fret on D string for instance. i'll really need a lot of practice at left hand and finger positions, 2 finger strumming, identifying which string to play etc before trying bass tabs.
i also dont understand the relevance or importance of 'triads' say, or 'perfect 5ths', and why theyd help create tunes. (yes ive been reading a lot, and watching videos 😀 )
You don’t need to understand those things yet. It’ll come in time. I’d also forget about the strap and just play sitting for now.
Don’t forget that the point of this is to play music, even at this stage. The main riff of AOBTD is all on the E string. Come as you are is three frets on two strings. Find some beginner tabs, it doesn’t have to be complicated.
Back in the day, of course, we bass players didn’t use much in the way of effects…
Actually a lot of my FX influences on bass date from the late ‘60s and ‘70s. Larry Graham with Sly Stone and solo for epic fuzz bass, and Geezer Butler with Sabbath using fuzz and wah. Bootsy Collins and the other P-Funk bassists for all sorts of FX madness, particularly envelope filters. Bernie Worrel and Stevie Wonder on keyboard bass (mostly Moogs). Anthony Jackson’s phaser with The O’Jays. And as I’m running a clean rig I’m using pedals for overdrive and distortion rather than three full Marshall stacks like Jack Bruce in Cream! There’s a lot of ‘90s tonal influences too - I feel my music listening tastes skip most of the ‘80s (apart from the stuff that doesn’t have that ‘80s sound!)
But there is a good reason behind the giant pedalboard - I’ve ended up with a band which is just vocals, bass and drums so it’s down to me to fill all the space that would normally be occupied by guitar, keys, horns, etc. The pedals all fill different sonic spaces and combine in loads of cool ways. It has been quite hard on the brain operating the mothership but I’m getting there!
My default tone is completely clean - there’s a lot of sounds I can get from the bass with just my hands, no knob tweaking at all. But I do like having a great fuzz available. And in most bands I’d be very happy with octave, fuzz, distortion, envelope and phase. The compressor is a new addition, partly because I want to get my head around it more, partly because I’m revisiting slap bass, and partly because I think it could work well on a dry send from the board when recording (so running an FX DI and a dry but compressed DI).
I was going to make a small board for the funk project I’ve decided to start after this alt/prog/post-grunge rock trio has recorded its first album but the more pedal experimenting I’ve done, the more certain I’ve been I’ve already got the right pedals on the big board, I just need to ignore the superfluous ones!
You don’t need to understand those things yet. It’ll come in time
I agree with clubby - at the moment focus on being able to pluck the right string using the right fret, until it is something you can do that without thinking about it.
FWIW Triads are just groups of the three basic notes in a chord that harmonise well together, for example for C major: C (the root note), E (the third), G (the fifth). They form a regular pattern on the fret board from whatever chord/root note you want to play with and will be useful in making up bass lines to specific chords.
I bought a used Sterling Sub 4 back in September - I am still very much a beginner even though I tried bass for 6 months a couple of years ago. Ive been getting 1 lesson a month from a local lad, he has stressed the importance of learning to play scales both major and minor - you learn the fretboard and notes and it stretches and strengthens your fingers (especially the pinkie). Im getting there with them. Im trying to learn to read music too, as I quickly realised that tabs dont give enough info on timing or rhythm, etc - just the 2p of a complete novice 🙂
I bought a used Sterling Sub 4 back in September
More importantly, how are you getting on with the SUB?
Franco, I think its great. But I am a total newbie, so Im not really qualified to judge. I got it "used" rom a wee shop in Stirling - it still had the cellophane on the pickguard and control nobs. If you are anywhere near Inverclyde, you are welcome to come give it a test.
I got it "used" rom a wee shop in Stirling
Joanie's? Always fancied a look there, but I usually only pass that way on a Monday when they are shut.
cancelled yousician this morning, it wasnt for me.
thought id try the 14 day free trial with SBL and it implies that i can pay the $199 annual fee AFTER the 14 day trial. however, when i go to put card details in and 'pay', the bank app says im paying the $199 now. when i went through these stages with yousician, the payment confirmation said £0. can anyone confirm that i wont be charged yet? id rather just not pay now than chase a refund later if i cancel.
will also have a look at bassbuzz.
thanks
The thing that strikes me (especially after reading some of these posts) in how big a thing bass “education” is these days - and drum education too, for that matter and how much money some people must be making out of it.
A friend of mine, who only decided to learn to play bass when he was fifty-something, has spent a small fortune with tutorials from SBL and others and yet (and this is the bit that I struggle to fully understand) he has zero interest in ever actually playing with other musicians, let alone in front of an audience.
Hell, when I was 15 and starting to play electric bass, having played double bass at school, getting out and being in a band was the prime motivation for hours spent studying bass parts on albums. No interweb, no social media, no transcripts - nothing but our ears really.
can anyone confirm that i wont be charged yet? id rather just not pay now than chase a refund later if i cancel.
I can't remember, sorry, but their support was just fine to deal with when I finally cancelled. No drama. For what it's worth I found the SBL stuff really useful for the forum as well as their course. It's easy enough to think you are playing well but once you record something and stick it on the forum people come back with useful stuff and you discover your timing isn't anything like as tight as you think it is. This was especially true when you were trying to play in the 'holes' left by the drums or trying to be a bit laid back. I really liked it as a course although nothing beats being 15 and in a band
@clubby
Yes it was Joannies. Nice wee shop with loads of guitars mostly. Young boy working there was very knowledgeable.
I'd love to play in a band again. Problem is, it's a very different proposition at 52 than it was at 17. For lots of reasons!
I'd love to play in a band again. Problem is, it's a very different proposition at 52 than it was at 17. For lots of reasons!
Ive been getting 1 lesson a month from a local lad, he has stressed the importance of learning to play scales both major and minor - you learn the fretboard and notes and it stretches and strengthens your fingers (especially the pinkie)
Interesting - I spent quite a while on that last bit and then read something from Carol Kaye (and I reckon she must know something) about how she uses the pinkie, effectively instead of, but supported by the third finger. IDK if it's technically right or wrong but now I rarely use a flying pinkie now and while reach might not be quite as far my fretting quality is better, less buzz, etc.
I have arthritis in fingers so may be a function of that too.
It was somewhere in these tips, but can't find it now.
https://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips1.htm
Tip 2 might be useful for Sadexpunk, teaching a bit about major and minor and intervals and why chords are more useful for bassists than scales. Although knowing the patterns on the fretboard of scales also helps (2-4--1-2-4--1-3-4, etc.)
For scales, I’ve found it more important to know the intervals of the major/minor scales rather than the notes themselves. The patterns are the same, so just pick your starting note. Same with arpeggios. Was watching a lesson on walking bass yesterday and the differences between various 7ths. The lesson had just 4 shapes to learn. Once you learn the shapes, that gives you notes that work together in any order, over those particular chords.
It might sound daunting starting out, but it’s easier than learning every scale but note.
how she uses the pinkie, effectively instead of, but supported by the third finger
That I believe is called the Samandl technique used by double bass players.
I however ‘use my little finger, effectively instead of, but supported by my third finger’. 😉
try this to help with 2 finger picking - start slow, get the left hand working first, then start to introduce alternating pointer and middle finger on the right hand - you be up to full speed in no time!
Billy Ocean - Red Light Spells Danger (bass tab)
I'd love to play in a band again. Problem is, it's a very different proposition at 52 than it was at 17. For lots of reasons!
Try it at 72........
The differences are, for me, compared to when I was younger (even your age) -
Far fewer live music venues (where I am at least) - when I was young we used to have a tourist season and every other decent sized seafront hotel would have live bands on several nights a week, plus there were a few larger venues too. You could earn shedloads through the summer......
I don’t have real mates in my band - they’re good friends, but I don’t do anything with them socially outside of the odd gig and rehearsals. Back in the day bandmates seemed to have far more in common than they do now - given the opportunity, two of the guys in my band would play nothing but Stones and Status Quo stuff, which I refuse to do, especially Quo.....
Most people my age don’t seem fussed about going out to see bands (unless it’s some Tribute band) and young dudes don’t want to see old farts getting on for their grandparent’s age, do they?
So, although I’m technically probably the best I’ve ever been, with the gear I want the opportunities just aren’t there, certainly outside of a city anyway.
Tip 2 might be useful for Sadexpunk, teaching a bit about major and minor and intervals and why chords are more useful for bassists than scales. Although knowing the patterns on the fretboard of scales also helps (2-4--1-2-4--1-3-4, etc.)
a lot of reading there and ive for to admit i just dont get major/minor, 5ths/7ths/minor 7ths etc yet but then again its early days.
im watching vids as well as practicing tho and have been spending most of my time trying to stretch fingers, playing frets 1, 2, 3 and 4 with all 4 fingers on all 4 strings. havent got the dexterity that they seem to have on the videos, i need to shift my hand, and its awkward for my pinkie/little finger ;-). hopefully itll improve with time.
The patterns are the same, so just pick your starting note. Same with arpeggios.
been going over the major arpeggio constantly, will also do minor this afternoon. really dont know what it all means, but they all say theyre important so i keep practising. havent moved onto practising scales yet.
i intend to subscribe to bassbuzz eventually but im just working through all the free stuff first, theres a load of free vids on 'studybass', 'SBL', 'talkingbass' and 'truefire'.
try this to help with 2 finger picking - start slow, get the left hand working first, then start to introduce alternating pointer and middle finger on the right hand - you be up to full speed in no time!
nice one. was too fast for me but just figured out how to slow youtube down so ill keep practicing that for my 2 finger plucking. im finding i cant keep them alternating if im concentrating on the frets, but then i think well does it really matter? do what comes naturally even if you keep doubling up on a finger from time to time.
one surprising thing i learnt, that makes total sense actually was not to aim for the middle of the fret but just nearly on it to eradicate buzz. as i logical thinking type of person, i should really have worked that out for myself that the note will be from bridge to where it touches the fret, so anything further back than that is likely to produce more vibration/buzz.
thanks all, im enjoying it. ill be looking for a new guitar soon 😉
I wouldn’t overcomplicate things to start. Just learn riffs and songs and have fun playing along. To get your right hand comfy with going faster just do root note stuff, constant eighth notes like AC/DC etc.
The theory can come later! Just enjoy getting into the groove!
I wouldn’t overcomplicate things to start. Just learn riffs and songs and have fun playing along. To get your right hand comfy with going faster just do root note stuff, constant eighth notes like AC/DC etc.
The theory can come later! Just enjoy getting into the groove!
That's exactly what I suggested to be honest.
Time spent playing is way more valuable than time spent clicking around YouTube looking for music lessons. Especially in the earliest days when you have fingers like wet spaghetti.
yep, will do. ive been hands-on more than watching, i just watch videos when theres other people in the house or i just fancy a break and to learn something. and tbh, im hoping the videos help with hand positions, learning the fretboard etc.
what are the best websites for riffs and tabs?
cheers
I haven’t done much of that since about 1997, so I’m not very up to date! But I don’t think you can beat buying an actual transcription book with both tab and notation, and learning most/all of an album you really like (that isn’t too hard - and many rock songs aren’t).
The two books I remember learning pretty much all of were Appetite for Destruction and Blood Sugar Sex Magik. There is a LOT of bass playing on those albums - but I was a first year uni student who wasn’t doing very much engineering but got v obsessed with bass!
A list here that I used.
https://www.noteflight.com/profile/63e29759b9cc7f244ebe251a4601b4c45cd6f3bc
There are also beginners tab lists on Guitar Pro, but most don't give timings which is much harder as a beginner.
I agree with chief, there's a lot to be said for physical books. Loads available second hand, just make sure they contain tab as well as standard notation. I picked up the Ultimate Bass Songbook, for about a tenner and it has plenty for every level. Look on the Hal Leonard site to see if there are bands you like, then check eBay or secondhand book sites. Many of theirs have access to online audio as well.
Ultimate guitar is usually my first port of call when looking for tabs. They have user submitted tabs and pro versions which you have to pay for. They vary in accuaracy and usually there will be more than one version of each song submitted by different users. The ones with the most likes tend to be the most accurate.
Double post sorry!
Plenty of ( mostly accurate ) tutorials for things in YouTube with the tab on screen.( Use the settings icon to slow playback down)
working stuff out by ear is a good way of improving your playing too. Check out the Moises app. It lets you separate songs (for free) into separate guitar /bass / drums & vocal tracks. You can then individually adjust their volume and slow down playback to isolate the bass to learn then mute it to have a backin* track to play along with!
I always get offered Ultimate Guitar when I search for particular bass tabs, but I prefer Songsterr. The layout is often more understandable and seems, to me, more accurate.
I've been trying to develop my ear a bit too, so that Moises suggestion looks good. I've been using Chord Ai to tell me what chords are being played in tunes - it can listen from YT, Spotify etc, so its been useful for learning the fretboard and training my ear.
sorry, was stuck n p14, hadnt realised the thread had moved on a page.
just had a look at moises and muted everything but the bass, but i think at this stage id need the tabs to work things out. ive had a cursory glance at UG and songster, and am currently just practising 7 nation army and the billy ocean track that was kindly linked to on the last page to try and sort my 2 finger strumming.
current things on my list to improve are muting, i seem to have a constant buzz from unplayed strings, and (micro)shifting as my hands/fingers just arent as long and spidery as the ones i watch on the videos so i need to move my hand up and down the fretboard more than most 😀 i also dont seem to be naturally able to place the little finger on the E string. maybe its my 60 year old flexibility/dexterity but i seem to be struggling with that and dont have that natural hand placement with thumb lightly on the middle at the back, floating around.
still havent signed up to bassbuzz yet altho i will. got 5 days at work from tomorrow so limited practice time so i WILL sign up on wednesday on my first day off. i dont spose it matters that much as its lifetime membership with a 6 month refund policy if i dont get on with it, just seems uneconomical to pay up and then have 5 days wasted.
cheers
Your pinkie will be virtually useless at first. You just need to use it. I've been working on it quite a lot lately, so running through scales and making a point of using it when playing songs. It's still rubbish, but better than it was.
A few things here.........
Don’t get to hung up about the “one finger per fret” thing - look at top class bass players in the real world and none of them do that religiously. As long as you can use all of your fretting hand fingers if you need to then do whatever is most efficient for you.
Step away from on-line tutorials, downloadable tab etc for a bit and just listen to a few of your favourite tunes and mentally transcribe and learn them by ear. How do you think we managed 40 or 50 years ago, without all the stuff that’s out there now? If I’m learning a new song/tune the most important thing is for me to hear it enough times, and be familiar enough with it, to sing that bassline (out loud or just in my head, it makes no difference). Because if I can’t hear something in my head then how can I play it? Conversely, if I have a melody/sequence of notes/whatever in my head, then I can play it. It’s called ear training and this is the most useful and valuable thing to devote time to, because in the real world this is what will serve you well when you’re called upon to play material that is unfamiliar to you.
Think of a simple melody - it doesn’t have to be a bassline, it could be “Happy Birthday to You”, and then try and play it and see how far your sense of pitch and intervals will take you - the more you do it, with different melodies, is the better you get at it.
Being a bass player, in the holistic sense of the words, is about knowing where you sit, how what you do affects everyone emotionally (in the band, the audience and oneself), how one person (me, say) playing that particular A natural won’t be the same as, for example Tony Levin or Jack Bruce or Jeff Berlin playing it - there’s so much that’s non-definitive, that’s subjective, that’s just part of you (whoever you might be.....).
Or you might, as you are free to do, dismiss all of this as the ramblings of some geriatric who, given that he was playing long before most of you were born, should have been shot long ago, or at least had his basses ( never refer to them as guitars, btw) forcibly removed. It’s why I always considered myself a shite teacher, although my students seemed to disagree - we’d end up discussing how to make the perfect curry or something - it’s like “Zen and the Art of Playing Bass”.
Step away from on-line tutorials, downloadable tab etc for a bit and just listen to a few of your favourite tunes and mentally transcribe and learn them by ear.
It’s called ear training and this is the most useful and valuable thing to devote time to, because in the real world this is what will serve you well when you’re called upon to play material that is unfamiliar to you.
been doing that today with blitzkrieg bop and 7 nation army. i saw tabs that had them all on one string, so thought id work out what the notes were on the next string too to keep hand movements to a minimum. had some success by the end of the day, but my follow up question to that is...... how do i know what 'key/chord' to play it in? ok say ive worked out a passable blitzkreig bop starting with an open E string and utilising the A string too, but what if i play it at a jam/with mates and the guitarist says "no, that needs to be in A minor" or suchlike? how do i know the actual notes that dee dee ramone played?
Or you might, as you are free to do, dismiss all of this as the ramblings of some geriatric who, given that he was playing long before most of you were born, should have been shot long ago, or at least had his basses ( never refer to them as guitars, btw) forcibly removed. It’s why I always considered myself a shite teacher,
id be a fool to dismiss your advice as the ramblings of a geriatric/shite teacher 😀
i appreciate the advice, thank you.
EDIT: i also spent a fair bit of time trying to get used to the major scale pattern, and hand movements for the '1 finger per fret' for the 1st four frets on each string and then back again. im a long way from being able to do those without plonking the wrong string or using the wrong finger :D. i also struggle co-ordinating all of this with alternate 2 finger plucking. if i concentrate on the frets i find ive been mainly using one finger. concentrate on the fingers and i balls up the frets/strings.....
i added an edit to the last post which doesnt show after a few minutes of refreshing so ill post it as a new post.....
EDIT: i also spent a fair bit of time trying to get used to the major scale pattern, and hand movements for the '1 finger per fret' for the 1st four frets on each string and then back again. im a long way from being able to do those without plonking the wrong string or using the wrong finger :D. i also struggle co-ordinating all of this with alternate 2 finger plucking. if i concentrate on the frets i find ive been mainly using one finger. concentrate on the fingers and i balls up the frets/strings.....
I start every practise session with 5 mins of finger stretches and there is an exercise called "the spider walk" which I see more guitar instructor videos mention than bass videos, but it is equally as applicable which I also spent 5 mins on for the first few months, and still do once or twice a week. They really help without worrying about being musical, although for the spider walk you do still have to try and fret correctly and not lift the fingers away from the string too much.
Doing that, also with alternate finger plucking just meant I didn't have to think much about my plucking and fretting technique any where near as much when I then moved onto the more musical part of practice.
Also have a look at Justin guitar, he has a good short video or two about building a routine, rather than just "noodling" which I think helps keep focussed on need to learn rather aimless practice, which worked for me especially those first few months.