You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I know there are a couple of us around and I know that @Sharkattack considered starting this thread, so props to him!
I've been enjoying some Amos Heller and the Darkglass stuff
I've bought a Stingray and I'm off to look at a Squire Active Jazz bass off Facebook Marketplace later today.
The GAS is strong at the moment.
What's new with you lot?
Am I allowed in here? 😀 I know I'm on the "guitarists" thread, but I'm the bassist in my work band. I've been enjoying the challenge of fretless recently. Really makes you listen hard and actually concentrate on what you're doing.
I'm one of these! Why has there not been a thread before? Forever the forgotten ones... 😉
I’ve been enjoying the challenge of fretless recently.
Lovely!
Ah, I've been on a break from playing since quitting the reggae band I was with then moving house (gasp! Almost two years)
I've tinkled with the bass occasionally, but the Glockenklang/Barefaced rig is gathering dust.
This thread is a reminder to get back on it!
<Puts hand up>
Great idea for a thread!
Am currently playing my Epiphone Jack Casady, no band at the moment just amusing myself.
Did you see the Tim Commerford Stingray? It's a thing of beauty in black.
I'm very novice but enthusiastic, a lockdown 'project'. I've always loved the bass, from some of the very recognisable reggae and ska lines through to my indie guitar band days - Mike Joyce, Kim Deal, RATM......
I can't play as in I don't really understand keys and chords, although I did play an instrument as a kid so kind of get scales and arpeggios. I just find a tab and follow it, and enjoy making sounds.
Yes I'm here and still playing, kind of.
I started as a complete beginner in March 2020 when I was told to go home from work and stay in the house for the foreseeable future.
A few months earlier I'd collected an old Washburn bass from my parents house which I'd bought in 2002 and never learned to play.
For the first few weeks I wasn't really sure how to get into it but once I had a routine and my fingers started working I was playing every day.
Then when flights and hotels and gigs started being cancelled and refunded I had a moment of madness and bought a Mexican J bass and an Orange Crush practice amp. I'd never even played plugged in before so obviously I got addicted to the sound of it and continued playing almost every day.
I kept it up for about a year and felt like I was making progress until... First baby arrived in June and put the brakes on absolutely everything!
Now I mostly stumbled around in a daze of sleep deprivation. I've had a few sessions but I already know I've gone backwards a bit in accuracy and speed. I can't wait to get back into it regularly.
For any absolute beginners I would strongly recommend Yousician as a program for getting you up and running.
i got my first bass just over a year ago (a squier affinity jazz bass in tobacco burst with string action you can fit a bus under lol,but i get by on it).
am only a home player and not very good (same with guitar).
have learned a few bass parts from some of my fav bands etc but would really love to be able to improvise etc
never have been able to do it tbough after 20 + years of trying to play guitar (do not understand music theory,just goes straight out of my head when i try).
always wished i could be a musician,but do not have the ability unfortunately.
I’ve mostly been playing my cheap acoustic five, it’s a 35” scale I bought as an experiment a few years ago and restrung EADGC. I mostly ignore the C now as I’ve concluded I write better music with only four strings - but it’s occasionally handy when I’m playing chords way up the neck so the body is getting in the way if played as on my StingRay (which has taken over as my main electric bass).
I started trying to write an album and put a new band together as a response to pandemic life - unfortunately it’s taken a while to actually get the humans together, partly because I’ve been building a studio at work. It looks like it might be just vocals (lots of harmonies), bass and drums which I wasn’t planning (and wasn’t my idea!) but I’m excited about it. I’ve done about half the lyrics and melodies and all the riffs/chords/etc for about 15 songs. It’s quite dark!
“ always wished i could be a musician,but do not have the ability unfortunately.”
If you’re playing music then you’re a musician!
Hi fellow bassists!
I’ve tinkled with the bass occasionally, but the Glockenklang/Barefaced rig is gathering dust.
I’m on the lookout for a barefaced big twin or super twin if you’re selling!
I have a delightful Musicman Sterling that hasn't come out of its case in the last 2 years and hasn't really been played since my last band broke up 6+ years ago. Now I have two children and a house with paper thin walls I don't really get time to even think about playing 🙁
Picked up a mini amp a couple of years ago to replace my ashdown stack that got sold and I'm not sure I've ever actually used it.
I'm currently learning a couple of tunes to audition for a band - some super funky stuff here:
It's not helping with the GAS - I have a Yamaha TRB1005 which is my main bass, but I'm really fancying something a bit different, and watching Paul Turner there is making me crave a Jazz Bass, even though I've had them over the years and never got on with them!
I have a delightful Musicman Sterling that hasn’t come out of its case in the last 2 years and hasn’t really been played since my last band broke up 6+ years ago. Now I have two children and a house with paper thin walls I don’t really get time to even think about playing
There's some great practice tools around nowadays - get yerself a Zoom or Phil Jones headphone and you'll be away without making any noise at all!
Or, I'm always happy to take unused basses off people's hands, you know, as a charitable service...
currently converting my old 70's jetglow ric4003 into a mutant beast inspired by Al Cisneros signature bass. It would make the purist weep but sod 'em 🙂
in the meantime making some seriously dirty stoner and drone stuff using my Warwick, gibson, epiphone and kingdom basses.
The kingdom is a cheap as chips thing, with some added bits like seymor duncan pickups I had kicking about and high mass hipshot bridge.but it has a super narrow neck, so great for full on deathmetal and thrash
“ I’m on the lookout for a barefaced big twin or super twin if you’re selling!”
I can help with that! 😉
Hello, complete novice here. Always loved the bass and picked up an Ibanez SR300 a while back and have never really gotten into the practice habit. Any tips?
If I'm honest I just loved the RATM bass lines bitd and am just happy making some noise 😁
@Jakester that charitable service is admirable! I do have a £4 charity shop acoustic guitar that might be suitable 😉
Phil Jones headphones sound interesting... Maybe what I really need though is a new bass (I did always hanker after a proper Jazz)
Always happy to help....😉
PJ does a quality headphone amp:
https://philjonesbass.net/cms/index.php/product-ha-1/
But if you already have an amp with a headphone output, these are great:
https://philjonesbass.net/cms/index.php/product-h850/
“ I’m on the lookout for a barefaced big twin or super twin if you’re selling!”
I can help with that! 😉
PM sent👍
This is Bass Corner, which needs to be used more! The cab is a Super Twin iirc
I'm rocking a Mexican P Bass with Seymour Duncan quarter pound pickups into a 1972 Orange OR120 (Bench tested at 195W) into a Marshall VBC412 cab. Which also happens to be my guitar rig!
Probably going to try and dual amp it with a 200W Sound City mkiii head which is essentially a Hiwatt.
Have also completed both the rock and funk bass lessons on Fender Play.
Time to find a band!
for all you fellow bass players, if you haven't heard OM, its worth checking them out for the most divine noise a bass player and drummer can make (doesnt really fit into any genre) sounds simple, bugger to play well
or for some super chunky overdrive bass a bit of shrinebuilder
a timely thread.
Currently playing a Dingwall NG2 five string and a Yamaha TRB1005 as backup. My four strings are both Ibanez, an SR1400 and an Ergodyne EDA900 from the early 2000's.
Amp wise I'm on a Quilter BB802, paired with a Barefaced Supercompact. Awaiting delivery of another Supercompact to go with it. Both are ace!
Pedals - Darkglass Microtubes X Ultra and a Mk2 Empress Bass Compressor. Absolutely brilliant pieces of kit.
Back to gigging next month, looking forward to it. Been ages!
Another lockdown bassist here. I’d played 6 string for a few years but never really progressed beyond mediocre. Got a knackered old Encore off eBay and learnt using the free fender lessons on offer. Found I could relate to bass much better than guitar (I sing bass in a couple of choirs) and for enthused.
A modest windfall and I upped to a Modern Player Jazz (Chinese fender with twin hum buckers) and loved the neck so much but wanted a more versatile brighter tone and eventually got a Mexican Jazz.
I played along to covers off YouTube and found I really enjoyed myself. One of the choirs was doing an arrangement of Don’t Stop Me Now and Bohemian Rhapsody and the pianist bullied me into recording the bass lines. That was quite a learning curve less than a year into the instrument, but somehow I pulled it off.
The confidence grew, and the other choir wanted a bass for the church worship band. The guitarist can’t play barre chords, so a lot of it is in D 🙄 , but hey, who needs an excuse to get a 5 string? A classic Vibe Squier jazz V quickly followed.
Now having lessons to take it further, and am just getting to grips with Muse-Hysteria. Love a challenge.
If anyone’s interested here’s the choir singing some Queen. I sang all four parts for the others to learn from and got my few minutes of YouTube fame fumbling my way through Deacon’s best bits! Starts at 5m32s
“Any tips?”
I think everyone has their own route to bassatisfaction but mine was roughly like this:
Play along with lots of stuff I like. Put together a band to play covers of this stuff in rehearsal rooms. Recruit a drummer who likes writing songs and start playing originals, some basslines written by him, some by me. That was over a couple of years. Started contributing to the writing with riffs and lyrics etc. That band ran for a few more years, gigged a bit, recorded a bit. Never “made it”!
Started another band intending to write originals but everyone I recruited just wanted to get out gigging and I didn’t have the solo writing expertise. Played a few covers gigs and then I quit, just hated performing covers (sometimes I wish I didn’t, it looks really fun if you like it!)
Spent a load of time writing and recording on own so I could start a band and have it do what I wanted it to do. Then found some people, but not a singer so I ended up singing and playing bass - turns out I’m quite good at that technical challenge but my voice is an acquired taste at best, with a slightly dubious sense of pitch accuracy… Anyway that ran for a few years and petered out as my new business hoovered up my creative energy for some years.
Now I’m kind of repeating that but with new music, a different direction but the same drummer, and not me singing!
That was an essay! I think what I’m getting at is we PLAY music and we should enjoy it and embrace whatever route we most enjoy. Strive for competence and any brilliance will emerge.
Top tip - never put your bass away, keep it ready to play! Just grab it and play something you’ve learnt, or figure stuff out, or noodle or whatever. Sometimes I play tons, sometimes I don’t pick it up for weeks. Nowadays I almost always find a new song appearing when I come back to the bass after some time off.
thanks CGG, so a question. Do you understand the structure of the basslines you write or noodle around with or just go with what works by ear. My personality is one of trying to understand how / why things work, yet I really don't have time to try and work it out.
Good to see so much activity on here
@chiefgrooveguru I'm on the look out for a barefaced cab too if you have more than one for sale.
My current list is
Fender MX Vintera 60s Jazz Bass
Fender US P Bass (2018)
Fender MX Mustang
Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray (2006)
Squire Standard Jazz Bass (2001) which I've replaced the control plate and pots on and I'm using to lear how to setup etc
Yamaha TRBX604 - superb lightweight active/passive bass with amazing tone
Ooops, that's at least 3 too many 🙁
On the amp front, I've got a couple of Fender Rumble modelling amps (40 and 25) and TC Electronics mini stack. I'm really looking for a darkglass or aguilar mini stack though.
I’m on the look out for a barefaced cab too if you have more than one for sale.
If I remember the guitar thread, I think he might.....
I've got the Squier Mustang and I'm looking to restring it after 18 months. It's short scale but through body so do I need medium string length?
To get the most out of it you need to know why the notes you play fit in with the key, or more importantly why some won’t work/fit.
Take the time to understand what key a song is in, and which chords belong in that key. The instrument is conveniently strung in a way that the notes in most keys can be found in box patterns once you know where to look for the notes. It can be a bit uphill at times, but a knowledge of the theory is kind of essential.
I’ve got the Squier Mustang and I’m looking to restring it after 18 months. It’s short scale but through body so do I need medium string length?
I’m not 100% but I’d go for short scale (30 inch) strings - there’s usually enough length to string them through the body.
“ @chiefgrooveguru I’m on the look out for a barefaced cab too if you have more than one for sale.”
I’ve got a factory full of the bloody things (but they’re all allocated to customer orders). My secret identity did indeed slip out over on that guitarists thread. 😉
“a knowledge of the theory is kind of essential”
Only “kind of” essential though - if you have a great ear and can basically play what you’d sing then I don’t think you need know any theory but could still be a brilliant bassist. I find theory helpful but as a beginner it can make things rather daunting.
Also, a bassist with a great sense of groove and a great tone who had learnt their parts by rote will sound far better than a bassist who’s been busily learning theory but not learning how to sit in the pocket and drive a band.
I meant a really basic knowledge, like how to find the root of the key and where to find the roots of the other chords in the key. Even if you can’t name the i, iv, v chords, you can go to them through learning fundamentally how the patterns work. For example, once you understand how a minor blues scale works you can play it in any key without thinking about it (other than finding the root on the E or A strings)
“ Do you understand the structure of the basslines you write or noodle around with or just go with what works by ear.”
I noodle around with a mix of fingers or ears leading the process and the theory helps with sticking points. I’ve been doing quite a bit of rewriting/arranging when cycling to/from work, taking what I’d come up with on the bass and improving it either in my head or by humming/singing it.
Some of my recent writing is delving into quite challenging harmony/rhythms, like changing odd time signatures, beats being added or removed on turnarounds, syncopations and polyrhythms, strange modes or scales, odd modulations, etc. I don’t know what I’m doing at the time, I’m just going where it takes me but I often vaguely work it out afterwards to help me remember it (I record everything on my phone, currently have 720 voice memos on there which are mostly song fragments, and the faster chordal parts can be hard to decipher).
I’ve got a factory full of the bloody things (but they’re all allocated to customer orders). My secret identity did indeed slip out over on that guitarists thread
Can’t believe I missed this at the time! A mate of mine had the Gen1 Compact (and a Midget to go with it for bigger gigs), I couldn’t believe just how good they sounded. And how smug he was at load in/out. They make my Markbass stuff seem heavy.
“ I meant a really basic knowledge, like how to find the root of the key and where to find the roots of the other chords in the key.”
Yes, there’s a lot to be said for knowing the intervals up and down the neck and across the strings. You can do so much with just knowing the octave, fifth both ways, maj and min third both ways and moving chromatically. Interval or scalar numbers like this are easier than notes and the weird way chords are written in conventional notation.
I’ve been working on something really odd at the moment. The bouncy dancy chorus is in A, going 1///m3///m2///m6/5/
(A phyrigian I think)
and then I think it’s modulating to D and then kind of like 1///1/m2/1/3/2///2/m9/8/10/m10
Total WTAF?!!
I’ve been a bass player since I was sixteen, so that’s fifty plus years....
I sometimes wish that I’d had the balls that Paul Turner had and left the same small island and tried to make it out there in the big, bad world, instead of forever being a big fish in a small pond.
But I didn’t, because I also had other stuff that I was ok at (motorcycle trials and later, sled dog racing) and I spread myself too thinly, which doesn’t work....
However, I’m still gigging, both here and from time to time in Greece.
Gear, if anyone’s interested -
1986 Peavey DynaBass
1991 Peavey Palaedium
1991 Peavey Foundation with EMG p’ups and EMG 18v electronics
1994 MM Sterling fretless
1996 Yamaha RBX 375
1998 Yamaha BB404 (DiMarzio ultrajazx p’ups and Omega bridge).
Trace Elliot GP12SMX preamp
2 x Mackie M1400 power amplifiers (1 in use, one as back-up).
TC Electronic BH 800 head
TC Electronic BG250 combo.
2 x Peavey 410 TX cabs. (re-ported and with Eminence drivers)
2 x Peavey 115 BX cabs ( with Eminence drivers).
The Trace GP12SMX has been with me since ‘93 and I don’t think that I’ll ever part with it, nor will I part with the Palaedium or the MM Sterling (because that was a gift from my wife)....
I’ve been working on something really odd at the moment. The bouncy dancy chorus is in A, going 1///m3///m2///m6/5/
(A phyrigian I think)
and then I think it’s modulating to D and then kind of like 1///1/m2/1/3/2///2/m9/8/10/m10
Yep, A phrygian.
That's the notes of an F major scale played from the A root, so A, Bb, C,D,E,F,G. You're playing A///C///Bb///F/E/
The next phrase is odd. The M3(F#) you added makes it sound D phrygian Dominant, to start with, but the M2 (E) we'll have to guess is an incidental as that wouldn't normally be there. The m9 is just the Eb from the D Phrygian dominant (m2 an octave higher), the 10 is F# again, the M3rd of the D phrygian dominant, and the m10 is an incidental ..... OR you've modulated to D minor(AKA D aeolian, the relative minor of F major) in which case the F# and Eb are incidentals thrown in to give it a phrygian dominant feel. It would be interesting to find the right chords to play those phrases over!
“ It would be interesting to find the right chords to play those phrases over!”
Well about six months ago I sent some recordings of this new project with just bass and two singers (drummer was absent) to a friend, and said it was proving hard to find a guitarist who got it, and he said, “you don’t need a guitarist!” So since then I’ve embraced my tendency to fill up a lot of space on my own. One singer has gone AWOL but the other is quite a harmonising talent so I think layers of her could weave nicely around what I’m playing to fill out the harmony.
I thought something was wrong about how I’d written phrygian! So that weird phrase, the D’s are fifth fret A string and then the m2 1 3 are root five power chords in the same register, like pedalling a root with some sixteenths and then replying with the other notes. The phrasing stays the same but I’m dropping to an open E, and the power chords don’t change at all. On some of the repeats that maj 3 power chord resolves to hang on the min 3 (and I play root five octave and vibrato lots as it sustains). There’s a lot of tension!
I've just spent a few minutes noodling that second phrase. That E natural is a real anomaly, every part of me wants to play an E# (m3 rather than M2), especially as that's what the phrase shows an octave higher.
As a standalone riff, I tried the first part of the phrase pedalling the open A..... that works quite well, and the last half phrase as a lick to resolve on the m3. Bags of tension, theatrical in fact.
Aha! You’ve inspired me, I’ve done some more hunting! Are there any easy ways to share audio files online? Top quality iPhone voice memo of acoustic bass guitar…
Andy, that’s an epic amount of ‘90s gear! Rackmounted I presume? Is the Trace Elliot GP12SMX preamp the first one to have the two different preshapes? I’m designing an amp at the moment and I’m putting a few switchable preshapes in that and one of them is the more rock ‘90s TE preshape (I’ve already got the super scooped ‘80s shape covered).
Aha! You’ve inspired me, I’ve done some more hunting! Are there any easy ways to share audio files online? Top quality iPhone voice memo of acoustic bass guitar…
DropBox and invite sharing?
If you just want to upload so folks can listen, then SoundCloud is handy
EDIT: and there's an option to make it downloadable
Premier Icon
chiefgrooveguru
Free MemberAndy, that’s an epic amount of ‘90s gear! Rackmounted I presume? Is the Trace Elliot GP12SMX preamp the first one to have the two different preshapes? I’m designing an amp at the moment and I’m putting a few switchable preshapes in that and one of them is the more rock ‘90s TE preshape (I’ve already got the super scooped ‘80s shape covered).
Yes, it has the two preshapes (but the GP7 did too, so I’m not sure about it being the first) plus the “EQ balance” and separate high and low compression.
Tube/solid state blendable front end and full range/variable crossover line outs. There’s a reason that I’ve used it for as long as I have...
Flight cased with one of the Mackie M1400s (which I believe you also used at one time?) with the other in a 2U flightcase.
That, along with those Peavey birch ply cabs (with not very light drivers) weighs a ton and I’m getting too old to hump it about. I sometimes use the TC Electronic BH800 but I’m old-school and it just seems like a toy....
Maybe I should pension it all off and get something more state-of-the art? But at my age??
Just to add to my post above - I was out depping yesterday evening with the Peavey Palaedium, through the Trace/Mackie head and the two 2x10” cabs in a loudish blues/rock band in a biggish venue but with no PA support for the bass.
A guy in the audience came up to me at the end of the night to tell me that the bass sound was “probably the best that I’ve heard in thirty years, in any situation”.....
So, even at my age, I must still be doing something right.....
The Palaedium is a pretty impressive bass, mind you. Not if you’re a slapper, maybe, but I don’t do much of that now.
"Maybe I should pension it all off and get something more state-of-the art? But at my age??"
If it ain't broke! You got a great preamp, tons of power and cabs that can move enough air (and clearly suit you tonally). To achieve that with something smaller/lighter will not be cheap.
I wasn't sure what a Palaedium was - googled it and it's a Jeff Berlin bass, I recognise that (I finally actually listened to some of his music, after reading his columns etc over the last quarter century - he's clearly a very proficient musician but I was left baffled that anyone would actually want to listen to it. Ah well, each to their own...) Unusual to have such widely spaced pickups - does it scoop out the mids a lot with them panned equally? Peavey have made some great gear over the years, hidden amongst all their less good sounding stuff - my first proper amp was a Peavey. Possibly the most reliable/indestructible stuff too.
"I’ve just spent a few minutes noodling that second phrase. That E natural is a real anomaly, every part of me wants to play an E# (m3 rather than M2), especially as that’s what the phrase shows an octave higher."
So on that recording I kept the first phrase (in D) the same (is that D dominant flat 9?) then the phrase in E changed the first two notes of the response so it's like Emaj9, which remains out of key vs the D phrase. And then I added the ascending phrases, Bdim9, D dom b9, Emaj9, F#/E. And then there's a fun little fill and into the chorus riff. This is the second half of the arrangement, the first half starts with me quietly playing through the chorus changes as straight eighth note roots and that crescendos into the chorus riff, and after the chorus we come into this middle section. Obviously things will probably change once melodies and lyrics get involved!
Apologies for the thread resurection, been meaning to post on here but but been out and about.
Another new Bassist thanks to Covid, been wanting to get into it for years, played 6-string when I was a nipper but it never really clicked, a chance conversation with a mate during lockdown lead to him announcing 'Oh, I've gota bass, haven't touched it in years, want to borrow it?'
I am now the proud 'owner' of a 92' vintage Japanese P-Bass it wa pretty rough when I recieved it but I've had fully serviced and had some Flat Wounds put on.
Full set up now is an Orange Crush Bass 100 with a Sansamp Driver, MXR Compressor and a EXH Big Muff.
Been really enjoying it but I'm still very green and I'm still not sure how to get the chunky tones I want for 90's Punk & Hardcore and a bit of stoner rock. Much experimentation yet to be done.
"I’m still very green and I’m still not sure how to get the chunky tones I want"
There's a lot to be said for messing around with the bass unplugged in a quiet room and listening to how doing different things with your right and left hand changes the tone. And then plugging in and doing the same without twisting any knobs, just vol and tone at full. And then start turning knobs and hearing what that does. So much tone comes from the hands!
Did quite a bit of that before I got my amp, still play unplugged a lot as I have 2 young kids so rattling the windows isn't an option.
The fact I'm near tone deaf doesn't help, I know when something sounds 'right' or wrong' but have real trouble working out why.
For instance, currently listening loads to Kirkhi's (bloody brilliant) album, and in the first track at about 2:35 in there's a fantastic Bass segment, this kind of tone is what I'd love to be able to get.
“ For instance, currently listening loads to Kirkhi’s (bloody brilliant) album, and in the first track at about 2:35 in there’s a fantastic Bass segment, this kind of tone is what I’d love to be able to get.”
Most of the vibe of that is from plucking back near the bridge for maximum growl and being really tight on the muting to nail the note lengths. There’s dirt too but that’s not the core.
Interesting, so you think he's using fingers, I assumed he was using a pick.
Yeah, muting is something I need to work on.
I've been experimenting with the Big Muff but, whilst I've managed to get all sorts of fun sounds out of it it doesn't seem to have quite that defined punch on individual notes that I'm after.
Food for thought, thanks.
“ Interesting, so you think he’s using fingers, I assumed he was using a pick.”
He is using a pick but I don’t! 😉 You can get the right vibe if you really attack hard. Fuzzes aren’t punchy unless you run something cleaner in parallel. I love Big Muffs though, our Machinist pedal is based around that circuit with clean and overdrive/distortion all in parallel.
I listened to OMD's Enola gay and realised the keyboard part has the same range as my bass so started noodling along. Watching a few vids about it I agree with the writers comment "all the best tunes can be played with one finger", though it takes a few more on bass.
This being a bass thread I suppose I ought to get technincal even if it couldn't be simpler: a bass, p-pickup only, tone 2/3, Marshal JCM guitar amp into guitar cab, clean channel bass 10 middel 9 treble 9 gain 8 volume not much.
Recorded as soon as I could remember the words so it can only get better with playing:
Superb @edukator as usual 👍
Now, amplifiers again.
One of @chiefgrooveguru ‘s 1x10 cab is looking on the cards, but what head to go with it?
An Aguila tonehammer 350 or a Darkglass microtubes 500 are the main contenders.
I want a bit of quality, just for home use.
Amos Heller is making a good case for Darkglass. Whaddya think?
Thanks for the encouragement, oldtennisshoes. There's no way I'd spend 1000e on an amp and cab and only have a 10". I'd want a 12" driver even for home use just for the feel of playing with a driver that shifts plenty of air. I haven't heard any of those amps for real but the Youtubes suggest the Aguila has a really nice clean sound and pleasant drive. The Darkglass goes a step further in drive if you like that (unless it was just the reviewers winding the gain up more). Both would do me. A headphone socket is a nice option if you share a house with other people and want to practice with the same amp sound.
I’ve been watching a bit of Flea recently. Possibly my favourite bassist of the moment.
Still can’t decide on the amp. The new Yamaha designed Ampeg Rocket Bass combos are now in the mix.
Another complete novice here who started in April last year. Always wanted to take up playing something and with friends in bass it seemed the obvious choice.
Picked up an Ashdown B-Social as a practice amp along with a Hofner Ignition bass. The Bass is nice but not that great as a beginner bass, so picked up a Bass Centre Betsey, being a Guy Pratt fan, and also knowing the guys at Ashdown it was the obvious choice.
The B-Social got some other ash down kit to join it with an Ashdown CTM-30 (love valve amps) and a ABM 210 and ABM 115 cab.
Have also picked up a Trans Teal MusicMan Stingray, as a Runrig fan.
Hopefully the GAS has been fulfilled for a while.
I used the Fender play app to learn along with Songsterr app. I'm still terrible but enjoy it.
"There’s no way I’d spend 1000e on an amp and cab and only have a 10″. I’d want a 12″ driver even for home use just for the feel of playing with a driver that shifts plenty of air."
But you're forgetting that how much air a speaker can move depends upon the cone area multiplied by the cone excursion - it's a three dimensional thing. Our 10CR speaker can move more air than any budget 12" speakers and only a handful of very expensive 12" speakers (like our 12XN) are significantly ahead in terms of air moving capability.
I own a Bass, it's a rather lovely looking Squire Jazz in Lake Placid Blue. It's sitting in the corner of my room glowering at me every time I go in because I can't play it.
When I were t'nipper, I got my hands on a lovely USA built Fender Music-Master bass. It had such a punchy sound, it was amazing. I tried playing at the time but was awful and convinced myself that the problem was I was trying to learn on a right-handed guitar. Not that I was a talentless, fat fingered oaf.
Many, many years on, and I bought another guitar (the Squire), but because I originally started on a right-handed guitar and could still plug out a few blues progressions, I stuck with the right handed version. For a while, I had a hoot of a time going to a sound studio with a couple of mates, but when my mates and I had a falling out, the guitar got hung up in a corner of the room, where it now sits, glowering at me.
I've since signed up to the online lessons on Fender's website, but I think I have a problem with the guitar being right handed, which limits my playing ability...not the fact I'm a talentless, fat fingered oaf.
Still, reading the posts on this thread has got me thinking about it again. Really, as long as I can plunk out a 12 bar blues, I'm happy. Yeah, I think I'll tune it up again and have a play!
B.
I'm not forgetting anything, it's not my profession but I'm fully aware of the factors in speaker design and performance.
Our OP was already looking at your high performance drivers and I suggested a 12" by which I meant your 12" if he were going to spend that budget. If he'd been looking at a more budget driver I'd have suggested 2x10 or 1x15. In fact I have if you look at my last post on combos.
Some guitar speakers sound better when pushed hard as the break up adds a bit of grain (Greenbacks are the clssic example of this). I've yet to hear a bass speaker that benefits from being driven very hard, on the contrary, adding a second cab even at moderate volumes gives more of the warm rounded thump I like than driving one cab harder.
"I’m not forgetting anything, it’s not my profession but I’m fully aware of the factors in speaker design and performance.
Our OP was already looking at your high performance drivers and I suggested a 12″ by which I meant your 12″ if he were going to spend that budget. If he’s been looking at a more budget driver I’d have suggested 2×10 or 1×15."
But there's a massive gulf in price between our 10CR and 12XN because the latter driver is a very different design with about twice the power handling and twice the output. Speaking fairly conservatively a 10CR is equivalent to a generic 2x10" in output, a 12XN is equivalent to a generic 4x10". At a rough guess, one One10 with a single 10CR will move more air than a Marshall 212 guitar cab and possibly closer to a Marshall 412. The changes in Xmax are vast, it's not like the 50% difference in area when going from 10" to 12", it's more like 150% or 200% or more!
You can gig with a One10 with a single 10CR in it (not loud rock gigs but still gigs), and anyone playing too loud for one at home is inviting a visit from furious neighbours or the police and also needlessly hastening a hospital visit to get hearing aids fitted.
That's a very hard sell. 😉
To be twice as loud a speaker cone has to displace twice the voulume of air. The cone needs to move twice as far in the same time. It needs a coil capable of accelerating twice as fast and that is a big ask when the constraints of coil and magnet design are considered. There are limits to those two no matter how much money you throw at it.
I have yet to have a visit from the police, I stop before 11pm. I use -20db ear plugs even at home if I'm practicing before a loud venue. If you don't practice close to real conditions the gig won't go well. It's not the same singing with an acoustic guitar as standing in front of Marshall's finest and a drummer with -20dbs plugs in your ears and hardly hearing youself.
The obvious solution is to play before buying but that requires a friendly music shop that doesn't mind you turning up when they're quiet and playing loud. My local shop is good like that. A shop I go to in Berlin has mini studios for customers to try gear in.
"To be twice as loud a speaker cone has to displace twice the voulume of air. The cone needs to move twice as far in the same time. It needs a coil capable of accelerating twice as fast and that is a big ask when the constraints of coil and magnet design are considered. There are limits to those two no matter how much money you throw at it."
This is a perfect example of why a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! 😉
We're talking about low frequency performance - it's only below about 150Hz where excursion starts to rapidly increase. But these same speakers can create output at 5kHz. At 5000Hz the cone is changing direction 100 times as fast as at 50Hz but the voice coil has no problem with that acceleration.
It wasn't meant to be a hard sell at all, it was simply correcting some facts. We have a sign on the factory door which says "Facts not opinions". That's how we roll! 😉
The science is beyond me but my One10 is stupidly big and loud sounding for its size (with a little TC bass amp head). Think you'd be surprised Edukator.
chiefgrooveguru is this you?
So what have you corrrected?
You added complementary info which is all well and good and worded to deamean, belittle and accuse of talking rubbish which I'm not.
But now we're getting insulting how about posting the spec of your 10" driver to back up you claims, it'll probably be printed on the back, if not the reference will do.
As for your commercial approach, you're working hard on not making friends or influencing me. Never assume people are thick, ingnorant and have no experience.
Go try some speakers, OP, you soon find that low bass notes (because that's what we're talking about) sound weak with a single 10" driver, even a good one. If it weren't the case then bassists wouldn't lug two or more of them around.
Edit: that's him, Grum.
I used the Fender play app to learn along with Songsterr app. I’m still terrible but enjoy it.
If you want to play along with an app I can highly recommend Yousician. It made the biggest, fastest difference to my playing that I've ever achieved. It's simple, repetitive and quite addictive. If you sit down and play for 2 hours, that's 2 hours of actual playing, not 90 minutes of surfing Youtube and 30 minutes of playing along to tabs.
"You added complementary info which is all well and good and worded to deamean, belittle and accuse of talking rubbish which I’m not."
Sorry but you are factually incorrect - I'm not trying to demean or belittle. You're not thick or ignorant or inexperienced but in this case you are wrong, that's all. However, I won't get involved in discussions like this on here if people would prefer, for the same reason that I had to mostly stop contributing to bass forums once my company reached a certain (still tiny) size, because all too often this happens:
"The science is beyond me but my One10 is stupidly big and loud sounding for its size (with a little TC bass amp head)"
Glad to hear it! Yes, that's me.
ChiefGrooveGuru - thanks for the explanation, speaker excursion is a new one for me so please continue 🙂
However, I won’t get involved in discussions like this on here if people would prefer
FWIW I'm glad you do although I can see why you might not want to. If I owned a company with a reputation at stake, I wouldn't want to be seen as argumentative - even if you know you are correct. Also FWIW I know that exactly one of the posters in this thread makes highly-regarded bass cabs for a living.
Edukator you're being a little silly. 😘
Glad to hear it! Yes, that’s me.
Nerd! 🙂 Nice one. I have one of your guitar cabs too which is sadly not getting enough use yet.
Dear me, we're into 10-year-old Internet memes now.
because all too often this happens:
And you can't see why? Make claims that defy the laws of physics and people will call you out.
You reckon your 10" driver is closer to a marshall 4X12.
Pie x d
3.142 x 12 x 4 = 150
3.142 x 10 = 31
When you consider the part of the cone taken up by the suspension the difference is greater.
If the Marshall cones are moving through over 5mm (which they do on low notes) the 10" cone has to move through over 25mm for the same volume and move five times as fast. There's a limit to what you can do with one small cone, a coil and a magnet. Which I presume is why your brand offers a range of bass cabs. But you seem very insistent on pushing the smallest.
5 x the number of coils - that would increase the weight and bulk. Reduce the wire thickness - that reduces the power handling
5 x the magnet power - that would be nice not feasible, alnico or higher grade ceramic and more of it add power but again there are limits.
5 x the movement. Cone suspension has its limits.
A bit can be gained on them all, that's the difference between higher end drivers and cheaper ones, but if 5 x were possible everybody would be doing 4 x. And it still need to sound nice.
I'll play some guitar now. 🙂
"If the Marshall cones are moving through over 5mm (which they do on low notes) the 10″ cone has to move through over 25mm for the same volume"
The Xmax on a Marshall speaker is about 3mm. A Marshall is a sealed cab so the speakers have to move all the air themselves, so from a Marshall 3x12" (which I'd say is about equivalent) you have about 0.3 x 530 (Sd) x 3 = 477 cm3 air moving ability. (Sd is cone area).
The Xmax on a 10CR is about 8mm. The One10 is a hybrid resonator cab so the resonant system pressure loads the driver over across almost the whole bass register (~150Hz down to ~40Hz), which approximately halves the driver excursion for a given output and frequency (ported cabs reduce the driver excursion far more, about tenfold, but over a smaller bandwidth). So a One10 has about 0.8 x 350 x 2 = 560 cm3 air moving ability.
I'm not insistent on pushing the smallest cabs, I just like facts to be accurate, inaccuracies to be corrected, and the myths and legends of audio to be slain. When people email me I'll ask as many questions as necessary to recommend the correct product, even if that's over budget for the potential customer so we lose the sale, or if it means we sell a cheaper product and thus make less money on that sale. There is a business reason behind this approach, which is that we're playing the long game (and ethically it makes me happy).