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Looking at getting a camper van t6 probably. I thought tail gate was the way to go but a mate with a t6 with barn doors says no the rain shelter doesn’t win against the pros of two doors.
what do those with experience say of the pros and cons..?
Would need to be carrying 4 bikes.
Barn doors for opening rear when someone blocks you in. Tailgate for every other scenario.
if you camp with it tailgate is way nicer.
Tailgate all the way. Our t6 is my wife’s family car. Not once has the mahoosive tailgate been an issue for her. It’s quieter as there fewer seal for VW to screw up; weighs less; you can see out the back better and best of all you can lock it open in a weathertight way to provide ventilation when you sleep with one of those bent nail £5 prop thingys from eBay (also from stitches & steel @ £1798.99).
My previous van had a tail gate, current van has barn doors.
If you use the back doors to get in and out a barn door is more convenient. For just loading bikes in the back then I'd be hard pressed to choose between the two.
I've got barn doors, wasn't a deliberate choice, but they work for me.
Pros:
* Easier (for me) to load/unload - being able to open/close half at a time means I can post wheels in behind one set
* Easier access to the roof (mostly to wipe down the solar panel, but also for anything that might be on the roof rack)
* Less space needed behind me to get things in and out
* Better control of airflow through the van - option of having half or full open makes a difference
I don't have rear windows in mine, I guess if you did, you'd have better visibility through a tailgate.
I've never really missed sheltering under a tailgate (I have tried it before). Generally if it's miserable, it's miserable from all sides. I'd just shelter inside the van. If I really wanted outside shelter, I've got an awning anyway.
"the rain shelter doesn’t win against the pros of two doors."
That's just something people with barn doors say to make themselves feel better.
Tailgates are ace.
Tailgates look better and I had them on all 3 of my VWs.
I’ve got barn doors (obviously the only option) on my current Citroen Relay, the only time the I miss a tailgate is when it’s windy, the doors can get blown about. It’s handy sometimes just to pop one open and quickly chuck something in.
I wouldn’t get hung up on which to have, I’d go for the best van I could find and live with whatever doors it had.
That’s just something people with barn doors say to make themselves feel better.
I very rarely hid under my tailgates, I tended to just get into the van.
When I was looking for a suitable van, I originally wanted a tailgate but I'd borrowed one first and decided I preferred the barn door type - mainly for the reasons listed above (including carrying kayaks on the roof). As it happens, I'm really glad we went that way as the interior layout lends itself to only opening one of the doors.
I don’t have rear windows in mine, I guess if you did, you’d have better visibility through a tailgate.
Yeah - I have windows in my barn doors and the visibility isn't great.
Just been through the same conundrum. My thinking ended up being to go with tailgate if I got a SWB but barn doors if LWB, simply due to the extra space needed to make use of a tailgate of an already long van. I went for the LWB and so barn door option.
It’s quieter as there fewer seal for VW to screw up; weighs less
Weight and noise don't really seem like real issues. It's still a van. Weatherproof seals, perhaps - but I've never had too many issues with seals.
At least double the number of catches that can fail though. That's a consideration.
At least double the number of catches that can fail though. That’s a consideration.<br /><br />
Not worth worrying about tbh. There’s no gas struts to fail, which I’ve replaced more regularly than door catches.
The sliding door rollers however are likely to fail at some point.
I've had four vans with tailgates.
I prefer it for shelter, loading large items with no side obstruction, visibility and clean looks.
My mate has a LWB with barn doors and ended up getting it converted.
Vans are ace though. Rear doors are the least of the considerations, just get a van!
Hmm, for rain shelter and barn doors, I wonder if you could mount a canvas near the top of the doors? Not like the ones that pop over the top of the doors, but a few inches down, so you could leave it mounted and it would fold into the van and pop out automatically when you opened the doors.
That'd be even better than a tailgate; you'd have side cover too.
Not worth worrying about tbh. There’s no gas struts to fail, which I’ve replaced more regularly than door catches.
Yeah. Fair point. Me too. The thing is, failed door catches stop me from using a vehicle (because I can't secure it), gas struts are just inconvenient.
Barn doors as the rain around here is predominantly sideways 😂
Had both types, but just prefer the barn doors, not sure why. Does help with pinning stuff in whilst you use the second door.
Barn doors = a van first owned by an hairy arsed builder who spends the first 3 years of the vans life farting weatherspoons burgers into the seats. Picking his nose and wiping it on the floor and grimacing at cyclists who dare hold him up on the way to his next 'tube of silicone' snagging job. Had the occasional supermarket bag dump job in the back following an excessive weekend of currys n'coke.
Tailgate = guardian reading family, van owned, cherished and christened 'Terence' the Transporter. Used for weekly Waitrose shops and for nailing the nanny in the back of.
Which would you buy?
I have a van with a tailgate, used as a basic camper with a bed over the bikes. If I need to park the van loaded but unattended for a while, I can reverse the van against something solid as an extra security measure. Removing the bed to access the bikes from the front would be a serious faff. But could equally be done with barn doors.
A tailgate is often received as a better choice for a camper, but I see pros and cons. It's easier to build a fold away rian shelter for barn doors than it is to make a fold away wind sheet or privacy screen to a tailgate.
Some van model are much harder to find with a tailgate, like a transit for example. I would personally see it as far less important than some people make out.
My T4 has a tailgate and I was picking up lots of timber yesterday in that rain, loading and unloading, if I'd had barn doors I would have been even wetter and the van would have been a swimming pool...
That said, the Sprinter we use as our camper has barn doors and I never give it a second thought. Actually, thats not quite true, everytime I open and close them, which sometimes feels like every 2 minutes, I think 'one day I'm going to knock the stupid badge off!'.
Not sure if it's an option on a VW, by my Toyota ProAce has a tailgate and an opening rear window (in the tailgate) for those times when either you just want to chuck something in, have parked close to a wall, or have something REALLY long that won't entirely fit inside. It's really handy.
What about attaching accessories (like spare wheels)? Seems unlikely you'd do that for tailgate option
Had a tailgate on my T5 and used it as a shelter a couple of times. It mostly works as long as the rain is not coming sideway. Yes, if you park too close to things (or people park too close to you) it _might_ be an issue, but usually not.
I'm looking at getting a van now and that choice really hasn't come into the decision process. I'd rather spend my time thinking about how it drives, reliability and internal space.
One of our barn door minibuses had a nylon shelter which was press-studded to one side and rolled up. It took 20seconds to flip it over the door then the other side, bungee to secure.
It creates a really nice sheltered and rain proof area.
One of our barn door minibuses had a nylon shelter which was press-studded to one side and rolled up. It took 20seconds to flip it over the door then the other side, bungee to secure.
Seen those around at a few races. Or similar. Tarp that runs along the back edge of the roof from door to door. Bungee to keep it tight.
I've also done it with a tailgate. Hooked to the back of the van and the edge of the tailgate to keep it tight, then a couple of guys from the bottom edge.
The barn doors on the T5 were known to fail. I doubt the T6 ge much different given it is the same design.
I've had both and I'm not that bothered.
Tailgate is a shelter only when the rain is coming down vertically, which it almost never does.
Barn doors let you sit on the back step with a bit of privacy and you can put shelves and storage nets on the back of them.
As you can see, insufferable snobby types will only have tailgates. Let them pay more and you get what works for you.
On my T5 I bought some uprated gas struts so that I could open the door tailgate with three bikes on (never tried with four) and it of stay up. Was fun watching the GF try to close it when it wasn't loaded.
Barn doors do give you a bit more protection from the wind. If there's no wind and the rain is falling perfectly vertically then a tailgate is better.
Personally, I'd go with a bigger van than a Transporter.
I've only had barn doors, and I do like the privacy and the ability to just open one door.
Friends have tailgates and I can see the upsides of those too.
Honestly, if you don't have a strong preference or requirement for either, I'd just choose based on the vehicle's condition, history and value.
Is this the most trivial issue that people get narky about on here? Oh no, I've just remembered the speaker wire thread I started last week.
Bike rack = tailgate
Would not be my top priority though
As matt above says, barn doors can make a brilliant camping space when thrown wide and a tarp secured over the whole lot.
Personally, I’d go with a bigger van than a Transporter.
This. Transporters are tiny.
Round here all the fashion-vanners have moved onto big rigs with swamper tyres and full solar setups. The T6's are full of yummy mummys on the school run.
Barn doors = a van first owned by an hairy arsed builder who spends the first 3 years of the vans life farting weatherspoons burgers into the seats. Picking his nose and wiping it on the floor and grimacing at cyclists who dare hold him up on the way to his next ‘tube of silicone’ snagging job. Had the occasional supermarket bag dump job in the back following an excessive weekend of currys n’coke.
Tailgate = guardian reading family, van owned, cherished and christened ‘Terence’ the Transporter. Used for weekly Waitrose shops and for nailing the nanny in the back of.
Which would you buy?
Posted 2 hours ago
Except Hairy arsed Pipe fitters who insist on a tailgate so they can set the threading machine up with some shelter.
Easily spotted as the bulkhead will be cut under the passenger seat, if there isn’t a flap to pass pipe through.
The T6’s are full of yummy mummys on the school run.
So what does that make mrs_oab and I in a t5.1...?
So what does that make mrs_oab and I in a t5.1…?
Doggers?
So what does that make mrs_oab and I in a t5.1…?
How does she show her face in society driving an old banger?
I've got barn doors and use a tow bar mounted bike rack. It's an Atera but I don't know which model..., eBay purchase. It has to be mounted at a very slight angle so the left hand door clears it and I can access the rear, this means the right hand door can't be opened. Not a problem for me currently, but bear that in mind and get some recommendations for bike racks that will work for you.
I wanted a tailgate on my T6 but ended up with barn doors. I am glad I did. I often want to just open one door if stuff is leaning against the inside, or just slightly open one door for the view without opening the whole thing (Which we couldn't do without going outside and walking around the back on a barn tailgate) Dont have a bike rack but again opening the whole thing with bikes on the back must be difficult (if possible) whereas split doors allow you to open. Other than rain cover I dont get the attraction.
How does she show her face in society driving an old banger?
According to @RustyNissanPrarie we are already old bangers...
On forth van now, always tailgate.
On forth van now, always tailgate.
So you lack perspective. Unlike those of us who have both lifted and swung in equal measure.
Buying today, I'd get a bigger van with barn doors, fit shelves to them and stuff them with bike stuff like lubes, oils, spare gloves and stuff.
Personal preference is tailgate, I just found barn doors always seem to be in the way somehow.
I've only had one van, the van I have now, and it has a tailgate.
So i'm gonna say that tailgates are The bestest, and barn doors are rubbish!
So i’m gonna say that tailgates are The bestest, and barn doors are rubbish!
Ah, that is such the STW way, good work!
If its got a tailgate you know its never been loaded by a fork lift.
Ive barn doors and would prefer a tailgate
Another vote for tailgate!!
We have T6 LWB with barn doors and dometic windows (so they open for airflow and have blinds and fly screens built in).
I went barn doors to I could easily stand with them open and load/strap stuff on the roof. Most of the time I just stand on the tyre but it helps sometimes.
Have had four vans over the last 28 years, two barn door and two tailgate. Probably prefer tailgate, but that is multiple bikes always travelling inside and always accessed by the back door, sitting under the back door at bike races etc.
If a camper or hanging bikes on the back then might prefer barn doors.
The main hassle with tailgates is opening into overhanging bushes, vegetation etc. Or if parked the other way round, paranoia that somebody in a tall van or with a bike on a roof rack will drive into them.....
Buying today, I’d get a bigger van with barn doors, fit shelves to them and stuff them with
bikenanny stuff like lubes, oils, spare gloves and stuff.
Meh. Partner has a T5 with tailgate...it did mean you could get in the back with bikes on the boot-mounted rack, albeit with a struggle. Until the rack was nicked that was. Now have towbar mounted rack which pivots out of the way, so you can still get in the back more easily. Not sure that would be possible with barn doors, although I don't know what other options there are with barn doors (ie what the drawbacks of racks mounted on one door only are).
Never really use it as an umbrella - for me I think barn doors would be preferable to keep the wind off if weather is your thing.
Basically though I'd be looking more at the van than the rear door config.
The main hassle with tailgates is opening into overhanging bushes, vegetation etc. Or if parked the other way round, paranoia that somebody in a tall van or with a bike on a roof rack will drive into them…..
True - it's a bit of a head banging hazard at the local tip where you back onto a shared path in front of the skips - slightly raised to that the tailgate ends up close to head hight. Have taken to parking away from the kerb so the open tailgate doesn't overhang the path with people staggering past hauling wardrobes and whatnot.
Thanks all. lol at some of the comments. Not sure about the guardian readership - a high proportion of those for sale, door agnostic, seem to be lowered, on 20 in rims and with some sort of body kit and private plate! No idea what a guardian reader drives but I wouldn’t put them down for many of those except maybe the last one.
The thing about being able to pack the back space with barn doors, what do you do with a tail gate. I have this problem in a car- the top of the last bit of the boot is hard to pack as it tends to fall out. Imagine even harder with a taller space.
I did realise after posting I need a new thread, “I have van lay out questions.”
Going to need another thread to discuss those that buy a van* then keep the bikes on the outside…
*campers excluded
The thing about being able to pack the back space with barn doors, what do you do with a tail gate. I have this problem in a car- the top of the last bit of the boot is hard to pack as it tends to fall out. Imagine even harder with a taller space.
Some of it will be layout dependent but we have a folding bed that we often leave out all day as we are usually out doing stuff but if we do decide to slide it back into position to use it as a seat then it leaves a shelf that we roll our bedding up onto, out of the way. Opening either barn door is fine as it doesnt fall out. Would be a pain with a tailgate. Van is always packed with lots of stuff at the back when we go anywhere so important for us. Brother has a tailgate and either needs 4 pairs of hands as he lifts the tailgate to catch all the kids stuff or simply lets it fall on the grass and picks it up.
*campers excluded
No exclusions.
The thing about being able to pack the back space with barn doors, what do you do with a tail gate. I have this problem in a car- the top of the last bit of the boot is hard to pack as it tends to fall out. Imagine even harder with a taller space.
Pack properly?
A van is a big, essentially cubic, space. I used stacking boxes, so floor to ceiling with no issues, and nothing falling out. It's not like an estate car with all roundy styled corners and stuff.
Though, FWIW, we got stuff for a 8 day/7 night MTB camping trip for 6 in the van and STILL had plenty of space. (That included 2 or 3 nights of camping in a field next to a lake, with no facilities at all...)
Have seen people using luggage nets as well.
Not sure about the guardian readership – a high proportion of those for sale, door agnostic, seem to be lowered, on 20 in rims and with some sort of body kit and private plate!
Yeah, i lowered mine, and put alloys on it (Not 20" though! Replaced the battered and not actually round steelies that were on it before!) It did look like it was on stilts before lowering though, could probably have got my head between tyre and wheelarch when unladen, a 50/65mm drop meant that the wheels were centred in the arches and the towbar was at a reasonable height! No body kit, no private plate, no engine "tune" to increase emissions and allegedly improve power...
Bungee nets ftw. Make use of the tie-down loops in the floor and the walls, or just add your own.
Had load of vans over the years, all Tailgate. My current van has barn doors. I’ve seen the light, barn doors for me in the future.
Tailgate on my T6.
The biggest downside is that I can't reverse into a space and get into the boot if there's a wall or post behind. It is an annoyance but isn't a problem
The huge upside is being able to use it as a shelter, and it's instant. Not 20 seconds of faffing to put a tarp up and then dealing with something wet. Sometimes it's only used for a 1-3 minutes while sorting stuff out at the end of a walk or ride.
There's no perfect solution, but I specifically looked for a tailgate rather than barn doors. I haven't needed a forklift assisted load so that has yet to be a problem for me
Always had barn doors.
Rain is just as often sideways as it is coming down. You can get a cover that goes between the doors which means it's protected on all sides.
Tailgate would be really annoying s we often have a trailer on (barn doors open fine as long as you park vaguely straight.
Also our doors are 270 degrees so fold back against the van if you want them completely out of the way.
Finally, tailgates look really vulnerable if you need them open into an area where people are driving, you spin round and stand on the pavement/verge and it's at forehead height!
Sorry, edited, way behind on the thread!
As previously billed in my what sort of doors thread but now general questions as that thread was closed.. I have some layout questions..
Seating
Most layouts have a second row of seats at the back. I can see why this when the van is camping mode but with kids, having them closer in transit where the passenger can pass stuff to them is useful. Also feels better when using it as a school run vehicle. Are there any options with the seats closer together in transport mode but then still have a living space when camping.
Also if loading the van with a lot of stuff it would end up being piled in front of the passengers such that they have to Wade through it to get in and out.
Beds
Loads seem to have rock and roll bed. is this because it is the best – RIB looks like it would be better at not having an undulating profile. I’ve also seen some articles saying that rib is bolted to the chassis and so safer but not sure why they would be attached any differently.
Cooking
in a small van do you cook inside it much rather than say under the tailgate?
Sink
This feels like it would be handy..
Extra space
Awning does this need to be drive away? so that you can leave it in situ when wanting go somewhere that isn’t packing everything up and going on.
LWB or SWB
There aren’t as many lwb vans as swb for sale. Why’s this? I was thinking that the bigger the better..
What other layout questions should I be thinking about?
Cooking
in a small van do you cook inside it much rather than say under the tailgate?
Where are you planning on using it?
I built my old van so that I could cook either inside or out with a pull out kitchen.
A mate built his so he stood under the tailgate. Looked brilliant, but even in the summer months he said it was a ball ache and ended up ripping it out.
LWB or SWB
LWB.... It's only 40cm but that makes a massive difference inside. It also gives you ~180cm behind the factory second row of seats.... Enough space for a bed.
I was quite pleased with how I built my old van (I'll sketch it out quick, not got any pictures here with me), but still ended up selling it and buying something much bigger.
Cooking: I did a lot of camping/car camping before, and I didn't think I'd ever want to cook inside a van, I had a whole list of reasons why not, and I only really fitted a hob so that it mer the criteria of a camper for speed limits. But... it's awesome. Being able to rock up and get started cooking immediately without the faff of setting up a stove is awesome. Way more pleasant to just pop the kettle on in the morning without having to run in and out of the van, too.
Sink: Yes, useful. Personally not essential, but it does make everything more pleasant.
Awning: Depends on what you want, really. I've got a roll out one (van came with it). Never really used it. I don't really get the point of drive away awnings.
Lwb/swb: I really wanted a lwb for the extra space, but ended up with a swb (I was on a bit of a tight timeline). I'm not too sorry about that, in a way it feels a little easier to live with for manoeuvrability. If I did it again, I'd be looking for a high top ahead of a lwb.
[Edit] There's only two of us, though. If with kids or whatever, then... probably a bigger van than a t6 in any length [/Edit]
Built ours last summer, lwb T6.1 with tailgate.
Had slimline poptop so it still goes in car parks, rear-seat bed on sliding rails so can be pushed back or up to front ones to suit load/trip. Deliberately chose no internal cooking and water as so much simpler and don't really want cooking smells/oils splashs etc where we sleep.
One other detail, had the usual sink type unit but it then runs lower towards the rear so its level with bed once it's dropped and gives a full width of van spread to sleep on "downstairs "
We only ever cook inside the van.
We have a small sink - handy for washing up etc. Also a 3-way fridge, 2-ring cooker and grill.
LWB doesn't restrict parking but does actually offer quite a bit more space.
Awning - we have a drive-away but only take/use it if we're going to be in one place for a few days.
Layout - can't really help much as ours doesn't have rear passenger seats. However, the main seat in ours is fitted longitudinally behind the drivers seat and pulls out into a bed. With the passenger (double) seat rotating, that gives an L-shaped living area and we prefer having a view out of the side of the van (even better with the side door open). It also means I have a decent length of floor, when the bed isn't out, for carrying longer things like bikes.
Just to complicate things, have you seen how many high spec, super plush cars you can buy for the price of a crappy van? And they all have tailgates for cowering from the rain.
I've been driving vans for 20 years and I'm bowing out. Current prices are just obscene.
Seating/Beds
I've a Smart Beds Evolution 2 which will slide right to the rear or up close-ish behind the front ones. Speccing again I'd go for the longest rails they make which would mean the bed could slide even further forward for additional bike stowage as even with a LWB the bed when in seat mode takes up a lot of length.
Cooking/Sink
I've just got a Boxio and am building a simple storage unit that'll fit behind the driver seat to hold that and other Euro Crates and will also box in the obligatory Chinese Diesel Heater, and have a drawer/table to for a stove on if I do that inside. TBH though I prefer to use the stove outside.
Going through this in planning phase at the moment. Need to seat upto 6 (4 kids), but usually 5. Probably only need to sleep 1 or 2.
Thinking of a rib bed on rails, bikes sideways front wheel off when using it to sleep in, seats forwards and kids bikes in normally when using it as a day van. Probably not enough width for a kitchen and 3 seats in the back. Possibly add a pop-top later.
Probably not enough width for a kitchen and 3 seats in the back.
There's a fair few outfits doing nice removable kitchen units that could be worth looking at, and IMO permanently giving up space for a seldom used kitchen unit in a camper van smaller than a crafter/sprinter and the like is quite a sacrifice.
You can get a bed on rails, we were thinking about that. But on the other hand, how old is your kid? How long do you need to be passing stuff back to them? If we'd got the van a couple of years ago we'd have gone rail, but she's a little more capable now so we've bought an organiser thing that sits next to her with all her crap in and she can sort herself out!
We have a rib bed, it does sit a little further forward than a r+r. Despite what I said above, I don't think we'd like her to be any further back than she is, might feel a bit meh!
Richard I think you’ve described perfectly what I was trying to do a bit ‘meh’ to have passengers so far back.
We don’t use the big car much so it would be that second car so does need to be semi practical which puts a large van out.
@ped Those removable kitchen units- what does that mean for classification as a camper and so speed limits etc. plus are they practical/light enough to remove / install when needed.
Prices - agree are not good. Id like a relatively low mileage 6.1 auto lwb but pricing might prohibit this. I still can’t get my head around high mileage vans being fitted with brand new conversions!
@scruffythefirst Sounds like your requirements are similar to mine: I have a l2h2 Movano, 3 seats up front, 3 in the back - for all the teenagers. Bikes fit behind the rear seats with the front wheel off, rear wheel slotted between the seats with longer bikes. Bed platform above the bike store, rear seats lean back and platform folds out over them to sleep 2 on a full length double. Bikes would fit in even easier except I have a unit in front of the rear seats with microwave, fridge and other bits - it’s an ex welfare van. Couldn’t figure out an off the peg more affordable option for seating 6 when I looked last summer.
Those removable kitchen units- what does that mean for classification as a camper and so speed limits etc. plus are they practical/light enough to remove / install when needed.
Ah, DVLA they say that "This equipment must be rigidly fixed to the living compartment;" but I'm unsure if rigidly is the same as permanently.
It's the 'must have two windows on at least one side thin'g that I don't get with having a van reclassified. I want the rear quarters left solid and not glazed so I think I'm stuck being a light goods vehicle. And if they ever think I'm meeting the "Motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle" criteria they can do one. I'd never considered why so many vans have awful graphics down the side until reading that.