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Ditto M. Gira
Not that it would alter my perception of Swans but I believe Gira's name was cleared to a large extent. And anyway, he regularly tries to trash his reputation.
Even the anti-vax rantings, I mean its a point of view isn’t it? A point of view thats not supported by science or facts but its not illegal to spout nonsense
It may not be illegal, but for me it crosses a line into "actively dangerous." I've spoken with people who - of course - want to do the right thing by their children but then they hit this sort of tripe and conclude "well, we don't really know, do we."
It was the 1970s, not the 14th century! Of course paedophilia was unacceptable then. If it had been socially acceptable, they wouldn’t have hidden it.
Of course paedophilia was unacceptable back then.
But nailing groupies was glamorised. They boasted about it. They wrote songs about it. That was absolutely a product of its time, I remember The Sun running a countdown as to when one of their models would turn of legal age to get 'em out on Page 3.
not sure who the young lady filling in Jacquie was
Sounds like not quite the sort of show you were expecting!
Hoping, however...
The Sun running a countdown as to when one of their models would turn of legal age to get ’em out on Page 3.
If you are referring to the Charlotte Church thing, then you may be misremembered.
There Sun is responsible for all manner of deplorable things, but this isn't one of them.
I appear to be in a minority here, but The Wall is by far my favourite thing Floyd ever did.
And tbh, I don't particularly care about the morals of musicians or artists.
It's all just noise, some you like, some you don't.
Apart from Rush, obviously, which is just music for right wing virgins. 🙂
The Sun running a countdown as to when one of their models would turn of legal age to get ’em out on Page 3.
If you are referring to the Charlotte Church thing, then you may be misremembered.
No, I remember this story, it appeared in "Stick It Up Your Punter", it wasn't Charlotte Church. It was in the 80s or perhaps late 70s. And if, as the paper claimed, the photos were run on the model's birthday then it had broken the law...because obviously the photos were taken before the date of publication.
However, the story only strengthens the point, it doesn't challenge it: it shows that even in the 70s there was a universal taboo on underage relations, albeit with a weird fetish around the kid's 16th or 18th birthday.
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Stick_It_Up_Your_Punter.html?id=q_zS3hsg42kC&redir_esc=y
Volkswagen has acknowledged its role in the Holocaust (from using slave labour to equipping the military), supports commemoration, and has paid a large amount of compensation to victims.
Thanks I didn't know that about VW.
Another 'chapeau' for tom's contribution.
Deserved of a slow motion replay?
tomhoward
Full Member
I wouldn’t... if it put even a fraction of a penny in their pocket
Lostprophets... feel a bit sorry for the rest of the band tbh.
Thanks I didn’t know that about VW.
And since then they have been the very model of corporate responsibility?
Aside from the emissions 'scandal' there's a history of labour rights violations, bribery scandals, class actions over age discrimination etc.
I've completely stopped listening to VW now.
And their vehicles have been rubbish for the last twenty years anyway.
I think there is a bit of a difference between typical rockstar posturing (Bono), ****tery (Ian Brown, Eric Clapton) and downright nasty bastardness (Waters) – then you have actual criminals like Glitter and the guy from Lost Prophets. I tend to draw my line after ****tery.
I came here to say something similar. I'll happily listen to Ian Brown etc, and I'll happily listen to Waters-era Floyd (but I will not go to see him live, not a chance). But I'd never knowingly listen to Lost Prophets, Gary Glitter etc.
Lostprophets… feel a bit sorry for the rest of the band tbh
Unfortunately they are even more dull than their previous incarnation
https://www.nme.com/news/music/no-devotion-2-1226966
.
So 3 pages in & not a single mention of Marylin Manson?
It suprises me that Gary Glitter songs are still played as stadium anthems, i would have thought that teams and corporations would think a little bit more about brand association.
"Part2" was really popular in the US in the early 80s and played in loads of sports stadiums, most 'Mericans of a certain age will know it as the "Hey Song" and it's got that sort of communal memory that's hard to shift. I think (at least the) the NFL have banned it now after they asked the Patriots not to use it. If it makes anyone feel better, Gadd sold the rights, he's not getting the royalties for it.
So 3 pages in & not a single mention of Marylin Manson?
Or Bob Dylan (Very much top of the ****tery league), Jerry Lee Lewis (general eeeuwness and additional ****tery) and Phil Spector (****tery, and Murder)
Thanks @nickc - I was here to point out the Jerry Lee Lewis grime. Marilyn Manson sounds like a genuinely grubby guy from the stories I've heard.
No one's mentioned Rolf Harris yet? Surely 'Two little boys' was an anthem from everyone's youth? No? OK then... 🙂
So 3 pages in & not a single mention of Marylin Manson?
We're talking about musical heroes here!
Another ‘chapeau’ for tom’s contribution.
Deserved of a slow motion replay?
I didn't get it. 😞
I remember The Sun running a countdown as to when one of their models would turn of legal age to get ’em out on Page 3.
I think you're thinking of The Sport and Linsey Dawn McKenzie, and it wasn't the 70s, or even the 80s, but the mid-bloody-90s!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linsey_Dawn_McKenzie
Ditto M. Gira
Not that it would alter my perception of Swans but I believe Gira’s name was cleared to a large extent. And anyway, he regularly tries to trash his reputation.
Indeed, but whilst he denied the rape charge (and that seems to be been the end of it) he did admit to some form of impropriety (enough that he felt the need to apologise to his then wife/family)… so he’s ‘tainted’ in my mind. I still give SWANS the occasional spin but can’t recall the last time I dug out Ángels of Light… On reflection shouldn’t have included him in the same sentence as Ryan Adams or Mark Kozelek…
I think there is a bit of a difference between typical rockstar posturing (Bono), ****tery (Ian Brown, Eric Clapton)
I'd rate Clapton's appalling racism as a bit more than "****tery".
No, I remember this story, it appeared in “Stick It Up Your Punter”, it wasn’t Charlotte Church. It was in the 80s or perhaps late 70s.
I think you’re thinking of The Sport and Linsey Dawn McKenzie, and it wasn’t the 70s, or even the 80s, but the mid-bloody-90s!
I don't think it was either of those I'm half-remembering. The number of times I've even looked at the Sport beyond glancing at the front page for comedy reasons must be in single figures so that's unlikely.
But isn't that telling in itself? Either it was an urban myth or it happened many times. It's hard to pin down because there's so many claims.
But isn’t that telling in itself?
What do you think it tells us?
Not a Sport reader either, but I think the fact it was happening was fairly widely reported/commented-on at the time.
Not a Sport reader either, but I think the fact it was happening was fairly widely reported/commented-on at the time.
Whilst on Radio 1 "DJ" Chris Moyles "offered" to take Charlotte Churchs virginity....
What do you think it tells us?
Primarily that the print media are shitbags, with a side order of an uncomfortable truth that there must be a market for it.
As much as (something about lefty woke triggered snowflakes Greta McCartney electric vehicles baby robins organic yogurt), sex sells. We by turns both fetishize this and condemn it. Wasn't there once a magazine called something like "Barely Legal"? Over in Japan they've got such a hardon for schoolgirls that there's a name for it. The US of all places, land of the free and the deeply sexually repressed, loves to make up pubescent girls like they've just stepped out of a L'Oreal advert. Then we scream "paedophile!" over Prince Andrew shagging a 17-year old. David Bowie was notorious for going through groupies like a tramp on chips but that's somehow OK because he was cool.
We can't have it both ways, we cannot take the moral high ground selectively. It doesn't work like that. We lose the right to wail about Motley Crue in the 1970s if we're masturbating ourselves red raw because Emma Watson turns 16 tomorrow and hopefully there will be an upskirt photo leaked onto the Internet.
It's just wrong. You don't turn 16/18/21/whatever and go "well, I'm mature now, I feel so much different from yesterday! Best get my tits out for the lads / buy fags / vote." What the solution is however, I do not know.
Off to see Waters, on the back of the negative publicity that drew my attention to the fact that he had a concert coming up.
Of course, he's not antisemitic. He's a longstanding campaigning anti-facist - however, he supports the Palestinian BDS movement, and is willing to take the crap that comes anyone's way who openly supports that.
Dislike of the policies of the government of Israel does NOT equal a dislike of Jews.
He's a bit of a knobber on Russia though. But then, who here is an angel who's opinions exactly match the "correct and approved" line?
BTW, and this is a trigger warning: I don't dislike Richard Wagner's music either. And he really did hate the jews.
Funny that Frankfurt didn't try to ban this eh?
I have decided that the best course to take is to disassociate the music and the band from the public ramblings or views of those who created the music. I listen to the music because I enjoy it, not because I have any like or dislike if thier views on anything. There are several songs l love but don’t subscribe to the views of the writers or performers. That doesn’t mean I don’t love the song.
There are several songs l love but don’t subscribe to the views of the writers or performers. That doesn’t mean I don’t love the song.
So if you liked Lostprophets you'd still listen to them?
I struggle with that disconnect - whenever Manson comes on an old playlist, they first thought is oh he's a bit rapey, I don't want to give him 0.00001p so skip it.
It's the same with an Spacey movie, sadly when he's on screen what he did off camera takes me out of the moment of enjoying the movie so I'm no longer invested in the character on screen.
Funny that Frankfurt didn’t try to ban this eh?
Because I don't think anyone in the orchestra dressed up like a Nazi to perform it, presumably. I know Waters has been doing it for 30 years now, but a wee bit of cultural sensitivity isn't so hard. There's many dictators to chose from after all.
I'm beginning to think that that other post from pistonheads calling us a bunch of leftie snowflakes isn't actually that far off the mark.
Because I don’t think anyone in the orchestra dressed up like a Nazi to perform it, presumably. I know Waters has been doing it for 30 years now, but a wee bit of cultural sensitivity isn’t so hard. There’s many dictators to chose from after all.
He's dressed up as a FACIST. The uniform he wears has a hammer and sickle on it - not a swastika. It's a commentary on facism, not just the nazis. And the point of *the law* is it's illegal in germany to glorify naziism. So even if he was wearing his best Hugo-Boss outfit then it would still be entirely appropriate given the context.
An anti-facist show that glorifies facism? It's transparently not about that. It's transparently not about "cultural sensitivity". It's transparently about the Israel lobby and it's groupies wanting to take down someone who's openly critical of Israeli government policy by calling him anti-semitic, even when he's clearly the exact opposite.
It's about making it so difficult to openly be critical of Israel, because to be called an antisemite pretty much makes you persona non grata globally - especially with people who don't care to look into the detail.
That's why the German court threw out the challenge to his concert - because he is NOT glorifying facism.
The uniform he wears has a hammer and sickle on it – not a swastika
Yes yes I know all that, that's why I said "like" a Nazi. And he's obviously dressing like a Nazi, he's supposed to look like a Nazi, the costume was designed specifically to look like that as it's instantly recognisable. But this is Waters we're talking about, a man who's never been shy to make sure everyone knows that he thinks very highly of his own opinions, so doubtless he content about the investigation. any publicity an' all that. And it's two hammers, not a hammer and sickle
even when he’s clearly the exact opposite.
He's said some pretty profoundly anti-Semitic things in his time. While I generally support his views about Palestine and the Israeli state, he's not above making some pretty crass comments that put him into the "Yeah very much an anti Semite" category for me.
I’m beginning to think that that other post from pistonheads calling us a bunch of leftie snowflakes isn’t actually that far off the mark.
I’m happy with that. Even the name pistonheads makes me think of Clarkson and those other two utter ****s. Lefty snowflake is basically a compliment in my eyes. What’s the alternative?
He’s dressed up as a FACIST. The uniform he wears has a hammer and sickle on it
If he had a uniform with a hammer and sickle on it, he wouldn't be dressed as a fascist.
He’s a bit of a knobber on Russia though. But then, who here is an angel who’s opinions exactly match the “correct and approved” line?
The invasion of two different countries by a genocidal authoritarian leader of a death cult isn't like using the wrong spoon at a fancy dinner party. It's pretty easy to work out if you should be in favour of it or against it. Waters being an apologist for the Putin regime is reprehensible.
If you agree with Putin you’re in the wrong. Not a difficult thing to work out. I mainly boycott Pink Floyd on the grounds that I don’t like the music. If a band I liked turned out to support Putin it would definitely put me off them. As per someone further up the thread, I’ve found myself no longer listening to Ryan Adams. Don’t know how much of that is down to his behaviour versus his output being on a downward spiral for quite some time.
tthew
I’ve just come in from the Warrington Neighbourhood Weekender festival, having watched my all time favourite band, Pulp live for the first time. Just an aweome show. I’m going to be really upset if Jarvis turns out to be anything but a magnificent bastard for the rest of my life.
Nope Jarvis is just a magnificent bastard 😀
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I think we can all agree that that is definitely a nazi style uniform…
Compare and contrast… (Der Röger cuff band…🤦🏼♂️)
I’m beginning to think that that other post from pistonheads calling us a bunch of leftie snowflakes isn’t actually that far off the mark.
If it's any consolation, I doubt that most regular readers would include you in that accusation.
(Echo chamber as we are, and all.)
I think we can all agree that that is definitely a nazi style uniform…
Richard Branson hasn't done well in the #MeToo era, then
Wasn’t there once a magazine called something like “Barely Legal”?
And a local to me brewery had to withdraw a beer named the same recently...
My missus lolled. And I'm pretty sure Pamela Stephenson's no duck egg. I guess the New Puritanism's winning eh?
If you are referring to the Charlotte Church thing, then you may be misremembered.
I believed it was actually Chris Moyles that had done that countdown thing for her 16th. From memory she's spoken about it at length
I believed it was actually Chris Moyles that had done that countdown thing for her 16th.
Oh, what a shocking surprise! Horrible human being. 😖
Slightly off topic, I watched the film 21 with my daughter last week. It's about MIT students card counting at casinos under the direction of their professor, played by Kevin Spacey. I wouldn't have picked it but as my daughter did I watched it. Not a bad film and Kevin Spacey played the manipulative older man very well, probably as that's what he was doing in real life.