[Closed] BAN TRUMP FROM THE UK PETITION

[quote=ernie_lynch ]It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right.

So they've both moved towards the other?

mrlebowski - Member

He has about 8% of the vote - I'd call that pretty fringe.

What Trump says makes the main news headlines, he has become a high profile Republican politician whose comments are increasingly being discussed by political pundits, but if you want to dismiss him as an irrelevant fringe politician whose comments will never be discussed in mainstream politics then that's up to you, you are of course free to think whatever you want to think. However subeditors, headline writers, and TV/radio news input controllers, don't appear to agree with you.

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aracer - Member

"United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right"

So they've both moved towards the other?

I don't understand the point of the question. Are you suggesting that US politics hasn't shifted to the left with the change from Bush to Obama, and that UK hasn't shifted to the right the change from Brown to Cameron?

I agree with jambalaya. This is all great for Trump - he can use it as an example of how pussified Europeans are so dominated by Muslims they want to suppress his voice. It would have been much better to invite him to an open debate, preferably in Scotland. He would never have accepted. He is not a serious risk to UK public order. We shouldn't be afraid to take him on.

Like one of our elder statesmen said: "come tae Glasgae. We'll just set aboot ye".

UK hasn't shifted to the right the change from Brown to Cameron?

The UK never elected Brown

Eh? what's that got to do with anything? There was a shift to the right when Gordon Brown was replaced as prime minister by David Cameron. And who said anything about it being "a major shift" btw?

EDIT : I can't believe that I'm arguing whether there was a shift to the right when a Labour prime minister was replaced by a Tory prime minister, some people really will say that black is white just to for the sake of contradicting, it would appear. ffs

I'm not arguing. New labour (as was) are routinely described as neo cons, and not really left wing at all by the labour voters. The Uk can't shift from a Pm it never elected. Do you think Blair was particularly left wing?

In real politics it was like a shift from 2% to the left to 1.9% to the left. Its still very left in comparison.

Like it or not you need Merica.

Without Merica you have no legs to stand on. Simple.

As my Texan cowboy mate used to say "We kicked your arse!" (in cowboy accent please).

I bet Trump knows what he is getting when he enters politics so petition or not you are just not at his level. 🙄

Do you think Blair was particularly left wing?

He never said that[ lets just ignore the fact he actually said Brown as well] he said Cameron is more right wing than him

A point, even on stw, its hard to believe anyone will actually dispute.

FWIW I though it was a clever joke by aracer on them moving closer to each other

Do you think Blair was particularly left wing?

No.

That doesn't mean the Tories aren't more right wing than the last Labour government.

Or do you think it does?

.

The Uk can't shift from a Pm it never elected

I said there was a shift to the right in UK politics after the global credit crunch.

In 2005 the largest party in parliament was the Labour Party, in 2010 the largest party in parliament was the Tory Party. Is it really that difficult to understand?

That doesn't mean the Tories aren't more right wing than the last Labour government.

Or do you think it does?

Not a major shift IMHO.

In 2005 the largest party in parliament was the Labour Party, in 2010 the largest party in parliament was the Tory Party. Is it really that difficult to understand?

Well I'm trying to be, I can't say it's easy though.

Nobody has been insulting, tried to make anyone look silly, or even particularly disagreed with your stuff. I have no idea why you get so bitchy. Are you like this all the time?

I bet Trump knows what he is getting when he enters politics so petition or not you are just not at his level. [/quote

I don't want to be at his level - there's nothing down there but cockroaches & sh1t.

 

The UK never elected Brown, the shift was from Blair to Cameron.

I think @ernie is quite correct to say that the economic crises is relevant to the significant shift in politics we are seeing.

It is true that as someone not beholden to financial backers he can say pretty muchnwhat he wants. Its certsinky ironic given how much critism we see of financial interests manipulating politicians where here we see the impact of someone operating of his own free will.

IMO its quite wrong to look at Trump's vote as a national overall percentage. What matter is who wins the Republican nomination and if its not Trump whether he stands as an independent. I still believe he could win the nomination but doubt he can win the Presidency in that case, but it isn't impossible. The Democrats best chance maybe Trump standing as an independent.

The UK never elected Blair or Cameron either.

The UK never elected Blair or Cameron either.

Its not pedantic to point out that we dont vote for the PM its just a fact.

We understand how the elective system works though don't we. If someone votes labour when Blair is leader, it's not a stretch to suggest that they know what they are voting for, particularly when he's the most visible labour person in the campaign.

Its not pedantic to point out that we dont vote for the PM its just a fact.

We understand how the elective system works though don't we.

you seem to be arguing that a shift from a Labour government to today's Conservative government wasn't a shift to the right

Then after all the Trump publicity you have the Clinton as the next Merican President ... Oh me goat ... not another Clinton.

It's a bit like Mrs Blair becoming the next leader of Labour party and the next British PM innit. 😆

That will learn you! 😯

It's like JFK all over again ... 😮

However subeditors, headline writers, and TV/radio news input controllers, don't appear to agree with you.

The numbers don't & wont lie - he's only in the press because it's click bait/copy.

What would you rather everyone did?

Pretend it didn't exist or face up to his ugly side of politics?

He's a news channels wet dream.

Well, I enjoyed signing that petition. I can't believe I'd not seen a link to it on my Facebook feed. Facebook loves sending me things to sign.

Anyway, nope if we ban rappers and hate preachers we ban that nasty piece of work. There's more than a whiff of Kristallnacht about him.

In the spirit of continuity may I assume Japan's Immigration policy is lunacy also? Do we need another petition ?

Do we need another petition ?

There are certainly some interesting ones in there....

Stop all immigration and close the UK borders until ISIS is defeated.
444,712 signatures

[url= https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=open ]And they're all shit. This whole petition thing is a pathetic waste of space.[/url]

I think we should all be communist. End off. Ya, Left enough?

With communism we all need permit to travel from one region to another ... ya ... Communist!

If you lot compare to me now you lot are bourgeoisie pretending to be communist. 😆

If the entire country turns communist now I will even be better off with my current pay ... 😆

Stop all immigration and [b]close the UK borders [/b]until ISIS is defeated.
444,712 signatures

konabunny - Member

Stop all immigration and close the UK borders until ISIS is defeated. 444,712 signatures

I wouldn't have thought there are 444,000 seaside B&B owners in the whole of the UK, but apparently there are.

So when other petition for their concerns you consider them unworthy but when you petition for something yours are worthy ... 😯

HHhhmmm ... my gut feeling tells me something is not right but I cannot put my finger on it ... hmm ... so sneaky they are (Yoda's tone). 😆

he's only in the press because it's click bait/copy.

He's only in the press because he is seeking the Republican nomination for president in 2016, and the previous US President was a Republican.

If he was seeking the nomination for some fringe political party he would be mostly ignored.

However much you might like to dismiss Trump the reality is that today he has significant input in the mainstream debate.

And I certainly don't think that his brand of bigotry should be ignored, nor do I think it should be treated as if it's harmless and some sort of joke, which appears to be the attitude of some.

[img] [/img]

ernie_lynch - Member
However much you might like to dismiss Trump the reality is that today he has significant input in the mainstream debate.

What are you talking about? Clinton is going to be the next Merican President. End off.

Debate how you like she is going to be the Merican President that will learn you ... 😆

[b]edit: Oh ya define "... good men ..." [/b]

And I certainly don't think that his brand of bigotry should be ignored, nor do I think it should be treated as if it's harmless and some sort of joke, which appears to be the attitude of some

Well, since we mostly agree except on one thing.

A plan of action? A question I've asked 3 times now & which you have yet to answer....

I say get him in the spotlight & lets have a closer look a him.....& you say?...

 

[quote=Junkyard ]FWIW I though it was a clever joke by aracer on them moving closer to each other

Exactly - though your words are far better than mine, my only excuse for being so accidentally obtuse is that I was in a hurry. The point being that our government is still way to the left of the current US government.

I offer my sincere apologies as I appear to have started a particularly stupid argument about Blair being more right wing than Cameron (which I certainly wasn't suggesting).

Trump's ratings amongst Republican Primary voters are up 😥

He described Katie Hopkins as a "respected journalist" (apologies if that's been posted already)

The point being that our government is still way to the left of the current US government.

Which policies do you think 'our government' are pursuing which are 'way to the left of the current US government' ?

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/barack-obama-backs-gordon-brown ]Barack Obama backs Gordon Brown's handling of global recession[/url]]

[i]"US president fails to endorse David Cameron's deficit reduction strategy but praises his predecessor at No 10"[/i]

But the Tories are "way to the left" of the Obama administration?

I was comparing the government, not Obama vs Cameron. The US government is more than Obama.

Surely we all agree that america is more right wing in general than we are in general

The US government is more than Obama

Of course it is. And 'our government' is more than Cameron. Which why I said the Tories and the Obama administration.

So getting back to your point that our government is "way to the left" of the current US government, can you provide a list of our policies which our government is implementing that are "way to the left" of the policies being implemented by the current US government?

500,000 signatures now

Bit of a read but fascinating how all his current rhetoric is at odds with what he's said in the past.

It's like he's just saying it now because he thinks it's popular with a certain segment of the voters, not because he believes it.

[url= http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/donald-trump-has-even-flip-flopped-on-bigotry#.adyKOLL8R ]http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/donald-trump-has-even-flip-flopped-on-bigotry#.adyKOLL8R[/url]

A politician is saying stuff he doesn't necessarily believe in ?

Some people claim that "respected columnist" Katie Hopkins, as Donald Trump likes to call her, doesn't actually believe a lot of she says either.

Liked this: Harrison Ford explains to Donald that "Air Force One" was just a movie.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35059128

Didn't like this: Daily Express reports Donald is right, police say there are No Go areas in London due to ISIS (despite the Met saying exactly the opposite!)
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/625545/Donald-Trump-Muslims-speech-British-police-ISIS-radicalisation-London

People the Home Office will exclude from the UK: a West Country pensioner! http://m.westbriton.co.uk/Home-Office-hits-deportation-row-Falmouth/story-28253828-detail/story.html

Serving officers in terrorist hotspots including London and Birmingham said that forces are becoming increasingly nervy over the rising threat of Islamic State (ISIS) inspired attacks, with some telling staff not to wear their uniforms in their OWN patrol cars.

It's funny how police uniforms attract ISIS terrorists.

Luckily I'm not a copper so I'm really not worried about ISIS inspired terrorist attacks in London. I just hope that the terrorists don't change tactics and start targeting civilians instead.

You hear people say [i]“there’s no such thing as bad publicity”[/i]
Trump and Hopkins make it look like it works,but there must come a point where all their spin flatlines or bites them on the arse.

Liked this: Harrison Ford explains to Donald that "Air Force One" was just a movie.

Longer version:

😀

[quote=konabunny ]People the Home Office will exclude from the UK: a West Country pensioner!

Except of course he isn't excluded from the UK. I don't think Trump is planning to apply to be a UK resident.

No, he hasn't been excluded yet - hence the use of the future tense.

Let's say we banned him, what then if he actually became president.

The guy will be up against Bernie Sanders and Hilary Clinton - he is going to win.

he referred to that creature Hopkins as a "respected journalist"
* banning him, BURN THE *ER

haha, I hadn't seen that roasting before.

Unless the blacks were a family of white people. hahaha

Good to see obama break into a fit of the giggles at that one ^

Trump really has no humour has he and it was a good line about the blacks that even Obama could not stifle his laughter.

To have that fragile an ego, that you can't laugh along, says something about the man...

Yes, Donald, we sure do have a "Muslim problem". I guess this must be what you're talking about, huh?

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/storm-desmond-muslim-charity-dispatched-to-cumbria-amid-further-flood-warnings-a6767066.html ]Would you like some help?[/url]

I forget which journalist it was, but one on Twitter was talking about how he wrote an article which mentioned as an aside that Donald Trump had quite small thumbs.

Donald took that personally.

Apparently he still gets the occasional text from Trump, with a picture of his thumb and the words "Look! Normal sized!"

😀

For those who think that Donald Trump's insane rantings are fairly harmless and that the way to deal with them is by engaging him in debate.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/18/republicans-are-so-bullish-on-war-that-30-percent-would-bomb-a-fictional-country

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/12/trump-leads-grows-nationally-41-of-his-voters-want-to-bomb-country-from-aladdin-clinton-maintains-bi.html

Trump has helped significantly in spreading division and hatred. Clearly he should be banned from the UK under existing government policy of banning hate preachers.

I still vote for Trump if he is here just to annoy the lefties ...

Is that roasting supposed to be funny?
Is it "unless the blacks were a family of white people."?
What is so funny about that?

That bloke thinks he is funny? Really?

A bit like me saying JKF was suicide innit?

Funny - the lefties jump up and down complaining how the press don't give Corbyn fair representation, yet remain oblivious to the possibility that the press representation of Trump might just be p, shock horror, unrepresentative and biased

Personally I suspect trump knows exactly what he is doing, and is delibaretly trolling the lefties for shits and giggles, and probably loving every minute of it. As with all politicians, sometimes it's Well worth watching one of his full speeches to get the context & humour, rather than being outraged after watching a 30 second edited snippet.

Personally I suspect trump knows exactly what he is doing

Who on earth thinks Trump doesn't know what he's doing ffs?

And the "shits and giggles" that you talk about has led to the majority of registered Republican voters now supporting a ban on Muslims being allowed entry into the US, 30% want to bomb a fictional place from a Walt Disney cartoon, and 28% want mosques in the US to be shut down. I expect those figures to continue to grow

Pick your knuckles off the floor and read the link :

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/12/trump-leads-grows-nationally-41-of-his-voters-want-to-bomb-country-from-aladdin-clinton-maintains-bi.html

You might think it's all just a bit of a laugh but it must be a very scary time for Muslims living in the US.

And we really don't need Trump spreading his poison and lies over here.

Ah, ridiculous polls!

It's like jumping up and down saying that a quarter of British Muslims supported the Charlie Hebdo massacre - you can make a poll say just about whatever you want if you try hard enough.

So you think Trump [i]"knows exactly what he is doing"[/i] but that he's having no effect on US politics - the polls must be made up.

You must be either very stupid ninfan or believe that those who listen to your nonsense are very stupid.

Although I suspect that it's probably a bit of both.

but that he's having no effect on US politics

I said no such thing

Much like Farage, he has set the agenda for a large portion of the contest, taking it places that the 'established' politicians would never have gone. like immigration, free trade and the balance of trade (especially with China, Mexico and the Middle East)

If he's taken it there with some gimmicky stuff that trolls and undermines the established order, but ultimately gets people talking about the some of the subjects that otherwise wouldn't have been, but actually connect with voters, then it's a clear win for him.

Like I said, you need to ake it with a pinch of salt and a sense of humour - like the 'horrific' things he said about his daughter

Trump for London mayor.

ninfan - Member

Like I said, you need to ake it with a pinch of salt and a sense of humour

If you were an american muslim, how funny would you find it to have someone running for president on a platform that includes banning you from ever leaving and re-entering your homeland? And then to hear how much support it has from your fellow citizens? I'm sure [i]I'd[/i] find it hilarious.

Or, you're pretty sure that black lives matter, and then you see a protestor beaten up with his approval. LOL. Or you're that guy beaten half to death in Boston, whose attackers said "Donald Trump was right, all these illegals need to be deported." I think those were tears of laughter, aye?

ernie_lynch - Member

So you think Trump "knows exactly what he is doing" but that he's having no effect on US politics - the polls must be made up.

You must be either very stupid ninfan or believe that those who listen to your nonsense are very stupid.

Although I suspect that it's probably a bit of both.

Ya, but I disagree with you cos my interpretation is that either I am stoopid or are you incomprehensible ... ahhhh ... that is the question. Get it? Get it? 😆

Northwind - Member
If you were an american muslim, how funny would you find it to have someone running for president on a platform that includes banning you from ever leaving and re-entering your homeland? And then to hear how much support it has from your fellow citizens? I'm sure I'd find it hilarious.

You object to that? Really? Do you know what the British did in Malaya when they fought the communist? They fenced in the entire community. As they called it ... starve off their suppliers and supports. Not forever but until such time as the emergency was manageable.

Or, you're pretty sure that black lives matter, and then you see a protestor beaten up with his approval. LOL. Or you're that guy beaten half to death in Boston, whose attackers said "Donald Trump was right, all these illegals need to be deported." I think those were tears of laughter, aye?

Advocating rules breaking is right, aye? C'mon ... are you trying to rationalise bureaucracy or are you trying to create chaos? I am sure that you want the rules of the land to be respected, aye? Then make up your mind ... rational or otherwise? Aye.

Your simply laughing off others for being rules suckers but yet you constantly perceive rules to be a necessity for our daily lives, may it traffic speeding rules, health & safety rules etc yet when the illegals are told to stick to the rules, the rules are wrong ... aye. 😆

Told you I see you lot coming ... rational ... aye ... 😆

Ernie. Whilst I don't agree with most of what our usual trolls a spitting out. The polls point by ninfan seems valid. I can find no part of the link giving me an actual sample size. Just % after %. So it [i]may[/i] be representative, but the fact that It is not obvious (at least to me) is pretty telling.

Having said that. I still think Trump hateful man and want him nowhere near the UK.

*if someone can point me to a link of sample size then fair play.

If you were an american muslim, how funny would you find it to have someone running for president on a platform that includes banning you from ever leaving and re-entering your homeland? And then to hear how much support it has from your fellow citizens? I'm sure I'd find it hilarious.

Well, I could start off by thinking "phew, isn't it a good thing that I live in a secure country where the president does not weild absolute executive power, but is restrained by an extensive bi-cameral legislature, along with a written constitution that protects the free exercise of religion and a Supreme Court that jealously protects it, long with a final check on the power of government in the second amendment." Then sit back and think "wow, that's rather clever actually isn't it?"

I can find no part of the link giving me an actual sample size. Just % after %. So it may be representative, but the fact that It is not obvious (at least to me) is pretty telling.

The last sentence of the article in the link says : "Full results here" which takes you to the full 102 page report.

It also says in capital letters :

IF YOU HAVE BASIC METHODOLOGICAL
QUESTIONS, PLEASE E-MAIL
information@publicpolicypolling.com,
OR CONSULT THE FINAL PARAGRAPH
OF THE PRESS RELEASE

To save you the bother of looking

Public Policy Polling surveyed 532 usual Republican primary voters and 525 usual Democratic primary voters on December 16 th and 17th. The margin of error for both parties is +/-4.3%.

Oh look, 19% of those far more intelligent and reasonable democrats support bombing Agrabah too.

And? So? What's your point ninfan......that Americans across the political spectrum are ill-informed? Really.......no shit???

The whole system relies on the majority being ill-informed, relatively ignorant, and therefore easily manipulated.

And just to show how politically ill-informed Americans can be a poll in 2009 showed that 42% of Americans thought that the central pillar of communism - [i]"from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"[/i] was actually from the United States founding documents.

[url= http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/was-karl-marx-founding-father ]Was Karl Marx a Founding Father?[/url]

Ill-informed, ignorant, and clearly confused, provides huge scope for someone like Trump to sow hatred and division and use it as an instrument to secure power. Trump course knows exactly what he's doing.

steveoath - Member
Having said that. I still think Trump hateful man and want him nowhere near the UK.

You have not applied your rational positivist thought logically or consistently. What you have just demonstrated is merely emotional bias without any rational reason to support your opinion.

Your interpretation of hate is merely based on the media hype like any biases.

*if someone can point me to a link of sample size then fair play.

If you are consistence with yourself (world view) this is a question you would ignore but then by trying to hate (... an opinion that might or might be measurable and with no data to support his (Trump) personality and definitely no sample size, yet you went on to speculate like everyone else ... ) you are being irrational and contradictory to yourself.

What's this data for if you like to speculate like everyone else?

😆

ernie_lynch - Member

And? So? What's your point ninfan......that Americans across the political spectrum are ill-informed? Really.......no shit???

The whole system relies on the majority being ill-informed, relatively ignorant, and therefore easily manipulated.

😆 You are thinking too much ... chill man chilll ... human beings don't survive by liking each others.

We have to cull each others from time to time as that is the nature of things.

Merican can ban whoever they wishes ... I say do it Merican! You can! Show the world that you can take on the system rather than let the system grabs hold of you.

Merican! Merican! We all love Merican! (<- that's a song btw) 😆

They all think the Merican Presidents are stoopid yet all of them have to beg the Merican like a beggar to help them win wars. 😆

Your interpretation of hate is merely based on the media hype like any biases.

This!

and always from the same people who jump up and down screaming in horror about the press when they dare to do it to Miliband or Corbyn...

The whole system relies on the majority being ill-informed, relatively ignorant, and therefore easily manipulated.

Ah, The toiling masses, who have neither the time nor the inclination to examine social theories eh?

Can't imagine that you could ever find examples of ignorance or manipulation amongst the righteous British left of course, no, lets just all laugh at the stupid Americans because it makes us feel better, and pretend they're somehow different from us eh?

http://volokh.com/2013/07/10/political-ignorance-in-britain-2/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/29/britons-not-ignorant-most-countries-facts-wrong

ninfan - Member

"Your interpretation of hate is merely based on the media hype like any biases".

This!

Let me get this right.......you are quoting Chewwy to back you up?!

😆

.....lets just all laugh at the stupid Americans

No one has called the Americans "stupid". They are clearly not stupid, just like any other nation on earth.

What there is however evidence for is that an uncomfortably large percentage of Americans are ill-informed and relatively ignorant. That's how Donald Trump can manipulate them by spouting lies such as that the British police are scared of Muslim areas of London and that New Jersey Muslims celebrated 9/11.

Ah, The toiling masses, who have neither the time nor the inclination to examine social theories eh?

Well bearing in mind how anti-communism and crass patriotism is drummed into them throughout their lives I wouldn't expect 42% to think that the principle pillar of communism was in their Bill of Rights.

I'm not sure how much time or inclination they need to know the difference between their own society and communism, or at least be aware that they aren't living in a communist society.

ernie_lynch - Member

Well bearing in mind how anti-communism and crass patriotism is drummed into them throughout their lives I wouldn't expect 42% to think that the principle pillar of communism was in their Bill of Rights.

I'm not sure how much time or inclination they need to know the difference between their own society and communism, or at least be aware that they aren't living in a communist society.

But we all know communism is just but a utopia don't we?

Commune this commune that ... What? Communist is communist! Dear Leader Mao would consider 70 million culling is nothing but a drop in the sea. No one in history comes anyway close to Dear Leader Mao brilliance. Not even the mighty Mongols.

Communist ya ... the machine of culling. I like! Cull!

You communist or socialist? 😆

ernie_lynch - Member
Let me get this right.......you are quoting Chewwy to back you up?!

Why not? After all your logic does not make sense other than trying to use information to confuse.

It's a bit misinterpreting statistic innit and you are not even a PhD in positivist research yet try to interpret statistic in a positivist determination.

Now now ... see told you I can see you coming ... innit! Aye! 😆

edit: You may quote me if you wish ...

This thread does prove that its not just Americans who are morons.