[Closed] BAN TRUMP FROM THE UK PETITION

Instead of the debate being about US gun law which is surely the nub of the problem?

the guns where illegally converted anyway

But bought legally I assume? So if true my point is still potentially valid...

Note really opining this - more of an intellectual exercise.

Understood. Trump is no mug, he's very calculating and his "non PC-ness" is a big part of the appeal.

Trump is no mug, he's very calculating

Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame)[url= http://blog.dilbert.com/post/126589300371/clown-genius ]has a take on that[/url]

NSFW (ish)

Interesting indeed @fasthaggis

190,000 signatures (adverts for Trump) now. Below is the list of petitons debated in Parliament in 2015. Just imagine the scale of the PR victory for Trumpmwhen he is debated innthe Biritsh Parliament and they don't ban him. Its like a massive endorsement 😯

[url= https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=debated ]link[/url]

Having read the link on Trump by Dilbert......there's really nothing new there. If you've had any experience in sales it's quite easy to see through Trump.

He's full of p1ss & wind & no rational person is going to be taken in by it. Trump may look like he's ahead in the polls but the actual number of votes he'll garner are negligible. He has made himself unelectable lately & there is no way the GOP is going to give up a fight before it's even started. If that means Trump gets the boot then so be it.

Another way of looking at is that maybe the GOP are saying "Lets let Trump spout & fart so when we put up a more reasoned candidate he/she will look ok. And (whisper it) now that Trumps planted the seed of some these more edgy ideas lets see if we can't sneak them in under a slightly more liberal guise...."

Again just my 2p.

Anything that his name is linked to eg hotels, spas and other businesses will be getting kicked to the kirb by the countries which are mostly muslim or jewish.

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Do people not know that he has been bankrupt multiple times and that he is just a name that people buy to stick on the hotels and such.

Good grief America.

That Dilbert blog is.... astonishing.

Scott Adams (Dilbert) has a track record of bellendery.

Do people not know that [Trump] has been bankrupt multiple times

He has never been declared personally bankrupt only a number of his companies or ones that bore his name/brand.

I do wonder if he actually wants to be President. Maybe it was "I'll stick my hat in the ring, get loads of publicity, then piss off', and it has got out of hand. Now is trying to bale on the whole thing by saying increasingly stupid things.
Being President would get in the way of his golf (which I suspect he cares more about)..

I must have some kind of lazy/broken brain issue, because I keep seeing this thread title as BAN TRUMP FROM THE KITCHEN.

Can’t we have one petition to ban everything?

It would save a lot of time.

The other petition has worked:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/775538/donald-trump-stripped-robert-gordon-university-honorary-degree/

290k votes so far...

The petition is daft, it is like fighting stupid with stupid. The only winner is, well, stupid.

Has he played his Trump card? 😆

What's with this petition?

Can we petition this and that please... 😆

I've just heard he'd pulled out of golf course development in Argyll, citing fears about the radical Mullah Kintyre...

Cougar - Moderator
I've just heard he'd pulled out of golf course development in Argyll, citing fears about the radical Mullah Kintyre...

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20130902150707[/img]

lol @Cougar 🙂

I see Katie Hopkins hasn't managed to squeeze enough publicity juice out of this yet, so she is now claiming that London IS radicalised and that [i]"a quarter of the population here in the U.K. are right behind Donald Trump"[/i].

🙄

(deliberately not providing a link)

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That sounds like a threat to me.

Over 420,000 so far.

Well, in terms of potential lives lost, the terror suspects returning from Iraq/Syria are probably less dangerous…

Rachel

Good grief.

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allthegear - Member

Well, in terms of potential lives lost, the terror suspects returning from Iraq/Syria are probably less dangerous…

Rachel

Really? In what sense? 😯

Yes, chewkw, I stand by that.

So called “islamic terrorism”, with the exception of 9/11, has killed what, a few dozen people in the last few years? It’s nothing, not even noticeable, compared to general gun crime in US.

A Trump Presidency will lead to such things as worse healthcare, worse equality and worse income for the lower, more marginalised sections of society - it will kill many, many more than terrorists ever did.

Rachel

The petition is daft, it is like fighting stupid with stupid. The only winner is, well, stupid.

^^^^ That!

it amounts to:

"Trump" Trump in order to show that our morals trump Trump's

Well, if you read the full text of the petition, it’s asking for there to be consistency in the banning orders, not “trumping Trump”.

If someone is spreading messages that this country deems unacceptable, they should be unacceptable no matter who is saying them.

Rachel

So called “islamic terrorism”, with the exception of 9/11, has killed what, a few dozen people in the last few years? It’s nothing, not even noticeable, compared to general gun crime in US.

I am fully in favour of dangerous and violent extremists who have been active in Iraq or Syria being arrested upon their return to the UK.

[img] ?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QIKZhcEhetdGtOLST3QR9b7JUCTZzeBUxEcPLBLnme7J52YbAxCP52CMIpsf8H4QyQ%3D%3D[/img]

From Katie Hopkins latest DM column;

[img] [/img]

*reaches for mind bleach*

Rachel, it's not a few dozen, sadly.

Some facts and figures here. [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/18/fivefold-increase-terrorism-fatalities-global-index ]Terrorism -The Guardian [/url]

Is that supposed to be "imagining" rather than "imaging"? Or does she really mean that she and trump could be run through a photocopier while shouting in the rain? Does she or anyone else read her stuff before it's shoved up on the web?

Rusty - whether it’s correct to call many of those terrorism or more likely civil war is debatable. In any case, I was talking of the terrorism in EU/US.

If we’re going to include all mentioned in your article, then we also have to include all warfare, including that dished out by our own armed forces.

I don't think the victims would be particularly bothered with semantics tbh Rachel.

allthegear - Member

Yes, chewkw, I stand by that.

So called “islamic terrorism”, with the exception of 9/11, has killed what, a few dozen people in the last few years? It’s nothing, not even noticeable, compared to general gun crime in US.

Gun crimes usually related to drugs me think with the exception of few trigger happy cops. Therefore, if they are drugs related then it's just part of naturally evolution really.

I cannot see the reason for linking gun crimes to Trump as Merican has been shooting their way through the history so why change?

A Trump Presidency will lead to such things as worse healthcare, worse equality and worse income for the lower, more marginalised sections of society - it will kill many, many more than terrorists ever did.

Rachel

Also Merican kicked your backside long time ago to reject your value so you want to instill yours on them again?

What's with this fascination about death? Human like to cull each others that is the fact. Death is everywhere around us so what's this trying to make people live forever ... how do you feed them? They are going to eat all the entire planet dry and the endangered animals to extinction.

I was meaning the US healthcare system - I never mentioned the NHS

Also - WTF are you on about in that last para? You’re happy for people to cull each other????

Rachel

Rachel - I'd ignore chewkw - no good comes of engaging...

allthegear - Member
I was meaning the US healthcare system - I never mentioned the NHS

You cannot expect their healthcare system to deal with everyone and even NHS cannot cope.

Also - WTF are you on about in that last para? You’re happy for people to cull each other????

Rachel

If they are [u]determine[/u] to cull each other who are going to stop them?

wwaswas - Member
Rachel - I'd ignore chewkw - no good comes of engaging...

😯

sorry but it just degenerates into zombie brain maggots and incomprehensible conspiracy theories.

It's like talking to a voodoo JHJ.

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-- http://libconthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/the-power-of-pie-charts.html

Ironically undercooked meat deaths aren't that rare then?

allthegear - Member

So called “islamic terrorism”, with the exception of 9/11, has killed what, a few dozen people in the last few years? It’s nothing, not even noticeable, compared to general gun crime in US.

Forget about gun crime- financial crime kills more people than islamic terrorism, in the west.

Gun crimes usually related to drugs me think with the exception of few trigger happy cops

That's almost certainly not true. The vast majority of deaths from guns in the US is suicide, double the figure for killings.

If you're looking solely at actual homicides, a quick Google would suggest somewhere in the region of 20% are drugs-related, though that's a difficult statistic to pin down with any degree of accuracy. And "trigger-happy cops" is just Mail-eqsque hyperbole, police shootings and other accidents is about 3%.

I think you'll find that some Americans will say their tight border controls and surveilance at home plus aggressive action abroad has kept them safe at home. Hence limited domesric terrorist deaths.

I see the 30,000 gun deaths is still being talked about. As I said thats 20,000 suicides plus a lot of criminal on criminal killings all with illegal weapons.

Plus what Americans do about gun control and domestoc terrorism is their business not ours. Just imagine how the voices of Europeans telling Americans how they should run their society goes down - answer like a lead balloon. They will say STFU and mind your own business as without us you'd all be speaking German.

STFU and mind your own business as without us you'd all be speaking German

you clearly have a greater confidence in the British ability to learn foreign languages than I do - it’s only been 70 years!

Rachel

I think the best thing to do is let Paxman in full attack dog mode get at him!

Or would that just be too cruel....?

I think you'll find that some Americans will say their tight border controls and surveilance at home plus aggressive action abroad has kept them safe at home.

So why do they want to spend $6 billion on building a wall between themselves and Mexico then?

EDIT : To be fair you did say "some Americans". Who did you have in mind - Donald Trump?

@allthegear, my point is "Euro Liberals" complaining about Trump just plays right into his hands. We might think the NHS is great but most Republicans (and many Democrats) think its a total disaster providing second rate care. Irs a different political landscape thats my point. Look at his Twitter post about Katie Hopkins, he well kniws that will wind up us "Liberals" even more and make him more popukar amongst hus supporters

@ernie, Trump has suggested Mexico pays for the wall extensions (as walls alreadynexist) in return for the free trade agreement that exists 😯

Trump is nuts, we are just helping him by reacting

he well kniws that will wind up us "Liberals"

So why are most "Liberals" here laughing at him?

Trump just plays right into his hands

Really?

How?

You might argue that any publicity is good publicity, but I'd counter that anyone with half a brain can see Trump for the dangerous loon he is. The closer to the light he's held the more easy it will be for folks to see through him.

It's a lot of noise for someone who doesn't stand a chance of winning. They voted Obama in last time for crying out loud, switching to Trumpet from there is preposterous.
All this is just clickbait.

The closer to the light he's held the more easy it will be for folks to see through him.

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more 'mainstream'.

He does not stand a chance of winning, that is correct.

However, it should not be underestimated the damage giving him a platform is doing. His racist rhetoric is putting many many lives in danger, and I am not talking white lives here, I am talking the already isolated Muslim communities throughout the western world.

His words, his actions, his demeanor is dangerous, worryingly so. And comparing it to that of the treatment of the Jews is about as accurate as you can get. We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

What we are witnessing is a polarization of politics with an international dimension compared to 10 years ago, due to the worse crises in capitalism since the 1930s.

It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right. Before we start getting too sanctimonious and superior.

I don't see the link between Capitalism and racism but good try.

We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

I don't think we are. The US have always had their share of loonies (as have we), Trump isn't a lot worse than Palin was

I don't recall any other politician in recent history making the bigoted, racist, sexist and damaging statements that Trump has made.

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more 'mainstream'.

So what do you?

Ignore it?

Pretend it doesn't exist?

Or try to show it up for what it is?

I don't recall any other politician in recent history making the bigoted, racist, sexist and damaging statements that Trump has made.

I looked at it yesterday, thought about it, changed my mind and didn't click the email confirmation, then heard the UK politicians don't want anything to do with it and thought, definitely sign, if only to make them squirm, which party does he donate to over here I imediately wondered. In the short time of deliberation it had doubled from over two to four hundred climbing as fast as the Clarkson one, with the news media featuring it on almost every bulletin, the same news media that created the furore in the first place. If he wasn't reported, would it really have happened?

Indifferent to these dopey petitions but all for getting more of that balloon trick on page 1. Proppalol.

Who would win the Hairstyle Slapdown?

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LHS - Member

I don't see the link between Capitalism and racism but good try.

I made absolutely no link between Capitalism and racism, although the link is obvious.

This is exactly what I said :

ernie_lynch - Member

What we are witnessing is a polarization of politics with an international dimension compared to 10 years ago, due to the worse crises in capitalism since the 1930s.

It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right. Before we start getting too sanctimonious and superior.
Posted 18 minutes ago #

You probably have noticed that we have in recent years experienced the worse global crises of capitalism since the 1930s.

Perhaps you haven't noticed though that this has directly resulted in completely unexpected gains for the left, for example in Greece and the UK Labour Party.

It has also resulted in huge gains for the right, again in Greece and UKIP in the UK, and of course more currently in France.

This greater political polarization can be linked to prevailing economic conditions. I suggest you consider that rather than relying on smart-arse comments such as "good try" 💡

mrlebowski - Member

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more 'mainstream'.

So what do you?

Ignore it?

Pretend it doesn't exist?

Or try to show it up for what it is?

I would suggest that you don't treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

I don't think he is.

Perhaps you haven't noticed though that this has directly resulted in completely unexpected gains for the left, for example in Greece and the UK Labour Party.

It has also resulted in huge gains for the right, again in Greece and UKIP in the UK, and of course more currently in France.

ernie_lynch - Member

I would suggest that you don't treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

I don't think he is.

He most definitely isn't and it is a very dangerous game being played.

wrecker - Member

It hasn't changed anyones views. There are plenty of loons who must love him. They were loons before and they will be loons when Trump has gone.

But right now they're loons being empowered and emboldened. I've posted about this a couple of times and maybe in this thread, so, not to repeat myself but it's pretty bad news. lots of people have unpleasant thoughts but don't feel brave enough to share them. Now you've got a * presidential candidate being a **** on telly, other *s are more likely to go out and be ****s.

It might not change views but it'll change how vocal people are about those views, and whether they choose to act on them.

Yeah I don't see any differences in left gain or right gains. Think you are trying to make a link that's not there.

Hesn't there always been these gains/losses though ernie?

Well if it was so these gains wouldn't have been unexpected. The general consensus is/was that they were unexpected.

I would suggest that you don't treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

Hmm, I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

Trump is a loon, an intelligent loon which makes him dangerous. That's why I think he shouldn't be ignored.

As for the "mainstreaming" of his views? They've always existed, acting like an ostrich doesn't make them go away.

Ah, get you. I thought it was more just running away from whatever they already had, rather than a collective shift of position (left/right).

As for the "mainstreaming" of his views? They've always existed, acting like an ostrich doesn't make them go away.

As for the "mainstreaming" of his views? They've always existed

Well it's the first time I've heard a high profile US politician from a political party which regularily forms governments, ie not a fringe politician from a fringe party, call for all muslims to be banned from entering the country, quite apart from a few other hate based comments.

Well it's the first time I've heard a high profile US politician from a political party

Could this be because he's mostly funding his campaign himself though?
Others have sponsors, donors to potentially upset, and PR people with a tight control on things, limiting what they can say.

Could this be because he's mostly funding his campaign himself though?

Quite possibly but whatever the reasons the level of bigotry which Trump has been expressing has never been mainstream US politics.

Well certainly not for quite a few decades.

Well it's the first time I've heard a high profile US politician from a political party which regularily forms governments, ie not a fringe from a fringe party, call for all muslims to be banned from entering the country, quite apart from a few other hate based comments

He has about 8% of the vote - I'd call that pretty fringe. If he wasn't Trump we'd all have forgotten about him long ago.