[Closed] Badnewz for Corbyn

I disagree with sex outside of marriage

Sos, stopped reading then!

I disagree with sex outside of marriage

DD doesn't like it when posters start referring to themselves in the third person. So he's out too. Think he'll have a dance with the Bear.

Badnewz indeed to show so much faith in politicians.

You do know JC does not mean Jesus Christ don't you?

(duck! as a shoe was being thrown my way by some JC(not Jesus Christ) supporters)

😆

Yeah, he appeals to nutters.

More good news for you Badnews........I suspect Corbyn probably disagrees with sex outside of marriage too.

If he was up to any hanky panky I'm sure the press would onto it.

It's ok OP, there are other right wing swivel-eyeds here already. You don't need to feel so alone (and if not a nutter, then some of them will make you feel normal).

I'm a [u]cultural conservative[/u], ie. I disagree with sex outside of marriage, I think easy divorce is a mistake, [u]etc etc[/u] (the modern Tories don't subscribe to these views, so I'm a fish out of water with them anyhow)

So, you oppose Cameron's liberal agenda over things like gay marriage & immigration? I'm sure you will be missed 😆

(overriding my dislike of his associations with the IRA - who blew up a friend of mine in the 90s).

Can you expand on this bit?

deadlydarcy - Member

It's ok OP, there are other right wing swivel-eyeds here already. You don't need to feel so alone (and if not a nutter, then some of them will make you feel normal).

The vast majority here are lefties so that's normal ... at ease.

I am not left or right ... just your simple overlord.

😆

Whoareya?.......trollishness

duntstick - Member
Whoareya?.......trollishness

Your overlord.

Bow before you speak ... (make sure you bow properly and submit totally to be step on ...)

😆

Not about David Icke endorsing him?

I iz disappoint.

Welcome Badnewz to the club of the angry and disenchanted voter.

I have met a very diverse range of people who have moved to Corbyn. People who have been very solid for years previously in thier non left views. Even my retired neighbour, a lifetime Conservative voter has had enough of the last decade or so of UK standard politics.
Many of us see Corby as 'the last decent person' in visible politics.

I think it is brave and honest of people to re-evaluate who they wish to vote for. I just hope he holds on in there, with the party members and voters and is not destroyed by the so called 'Labour' MPs and the press both of which put greed before country.

God knows what politics will become if he stops being head of Labour, as ruthless and hishonest politicians will no longer see any barrier at all to treating the population of the UK like disposable toys, useful only for wealth creation and as an outlet for sadism.

badnewz - Member
I disagree with sex outside of marriage,

That aside, I tend to agree with everything you've written re Corbyn and agree he is the last hope for decency in politics, those pink Tory NL boys are making a big mistake.

He's very small c conservative. Making sure those women don't get any uppity ideas.

Personally I'm looking forward to Maria Eagle destroying Livingstone...

I was finding myself moving towards Jeremy Corbyn but now I'm not so sure after reading about his IRA links.

I joined the Labour Party after Corbyn's election but I'll be quitting the party if his shadow cabinet (and some backbenchers) vote this Syria bull$hit through, like they did Iraq.

The Tories are playing Labour like a fiddle, knowing very well that the party is radically split between those 'Red Tory' Blairites who keep banging on about wanting power like some despotic leader of a banana republic, and the traditional working class voter base which Labour has survived on all these years.

Its really sad because I was genuinely inspired by Corbyn's rise to the top, and although I don't agree with him on every issue, the climate of sensible, informed debate which he is trying to resurrect in British politics must be allowed to develop at all costs. I fully support Corbyn in his endeavour. Unfortunately, with a deeply divided party full of political chancers who should really put themselves forward for reselection, or cross the floor and join the Tories, I'm not sure if I actually support the Labour Party itself.

"Sex outside of marriage" after being married for 2 snd a bit years I'm not sure there's any type.

What about the SNP, Eck comes up grand in his new portait(s)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/26/alex-salmond-new-portrait-at-the-national-portrait-gallery_n_8654918.html

The Tories are playing Labour like a fiddle,

I thought Corbyn would be great entertainment value if elected. Not disappointed so far. He's been outdone by the Mao's Little Red Book episode though.

Unfortunately, with a deeply divided party full of political chancers who should really put themselves forward for reselection, or cross the floor and join the Tories, I'm not sure if I actually support the Labour Party itself.

Maybe he's waiting for all the Blairites to resign or defect on their own so he can create an actual left wing party.

Or maybe he's sticking to his principles.. you know, like people are always wanting politicians to do..?

So you don't approve of sex before marriage so can't support the Tories but you are prepared to back an individual who you yourself note has a poor track record of giving credibility to Terrorists and who's party is generally more lax on moral issues ?

I'm very confused and would suggest you are too 😯

Maybe he's waiting for all the Blairites to resign or defect on their own so he can create an actual left wing party.

That seems to be his purpose

Or maybe he's sticking to his principles.. you know, like people are always wanting politicians to do..?

They say they want it, until they are confronted with the reality.

Badnewz, welcome to the corbyn appreciation society.

They say they want it, until they are confronted with the reality.

Nah, that's not it.

The issue is that people have already made up their minds about politicians. So anything that your guys say is always right, because your guys have said it, and vice versa. Consequently, every single political happening of any kind disgusts half the country, regardless of what it is. So that's what gets reported.

So - politician says something, papers criticise it. Changes his mind, and *no-one* says 'oh that's great, well done', the papers just criticise the u-turn.

No politican can win. Now this sucks for the politicians, but it sucks for us more because it completely ruins political debates and turns it into a continuous bun-fight. And without good debate, democracy is next to worthless; and all the politicans do is spend their time lobbing the buns ever harder, and not working out how to solve anything.

This is why I voted for him - as a way off this ridiculous and damaging merry-go-round. I sincerely hope he becomes canny enough to make David and co look stupid. He is, if you listen hard, but it's hard to hear over the screaming.

More cheap smearing from jambalaya. No surprise there then.

I disagree with sex outside of marriage

My wife disagrees with sex inside marriage. 🙁

If it makes any of you feel any better, i am a cultural heretic (or whatever the opposite is to cultural conservatism), and i thought about the importance of shaking up politics via whoever challenged the nonsense of westminster and the conservative-lite that was the labour party recently, so politically I took a bit of a lurch to the right to get to supporting the not-all-that-radically-lefty-at-all Corbyn.

This is why I voted for him - as a way off this ridiculous and damaging merry-go-round. I sincerely hope he becomes canny enough to make David and co look stupid. He is, if you listen hard, but it's hard to hear over the screaming.

This is a courageous analysis.

Badnewz - what a nice bloke you are. Judging by this evening's papers, JC will be welcoming some new friends.. Not too many in the Labour Party at the moment.

I bet he feels a bit miserable right now.

@dd he is the gift that keeps on giving, I read in the Guardian today even Watson is going to vote Yes. I do hope Corbyn survives this as it would be far too soon for the fun to end. As leader of the Labour Party he's going to get a lesson in how little power or influence he has on the issue which seems to have been most important to him over the past 20 or more years. He is a seriously misguided man. I've no doubt at all that given his relationships with terrorists would have been closely monitored by the security services and quite rightly too. I posted right back when he was first nominated as a leadership candidate that his terrorist links would be a major issue.

OP if you are against sex before marriage Corbyn is hardly going to be much of an idol on that front either. In case you didn't follow the earlier Corbyn thread I very nearly paid £3 to vote for him as I was keen the public got to get a good look at his ultra left wing politics.

Yawn

he opposes bombing Syria- Good! at worst he makes people think about it for 10 more seconds.

He is the first genuine opposition we've had for years.

@dd he is the gift that keeps on giving

I've no doubt at all that given his relationships with terrorists would have been closely monitored by the security services and quite rightly too.

They may well be as paranoid and right wing as you but he is no threat to national security though he may well be to the neo con consensus you so warmly embrace

I posted right back when he was first nominated as a leadership candidate that his terrorist links would be a major issue.

I dont think you would let me do this about Israel or Jews

molgrips - Member

I sincerely hope he becomes canny enough to make David and co look stupid. He is, if you listen hard, but it's hard to hear over the screaming.

This is the real problem tbh- it's not that important what he actually says, because so many people will never hear it. It'll be drowned out by "he thinks it's a tragedy that Bin Laden's dead" and "he says Hamas are our friends" "hr wouldn't let us shoot terrorists". It's a little gratifying in that he's required his opponents to resort so completely to the big lie, but the problem remains that the big lie[i] works[/i]. But tbh, with the current shower, they're so taken with big lies they'd probably have gone that way anyway.

its true that to hear his message you need to listen to everything he says

he is not a sound bite politician
Problem is most voters only know the headlines they dont really do politics

I am sorry but no one is going to listen to what he says. His delivery is turgid and based on his response to the SDR largely irrelevant to the matter at hand. He is frankly out of his depth, this is no shame on him, it is an incredibly difficult job leading the opposition, but on this week's performance he is making Miliband look like a superstar. Go back and look at how Michael Foot performed in the House of Commons - then you will see what someone of ability can do.

Northwind, junkyard and molgrips have it right IMO.
JC talks a lot of sense but lacks the where with all to make it come across in a radio friendly 10 second soundbite.
Unfortunately John Mcdonnell attempts this for him and it does not always succeed.

mefty - Member

I am sorry but no one is going to listen to what he says. His delivery is turgid and based on his response to the SDR largely irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Thing is, though... His political opponents don't agree with this analysis. Nor do the press, or people like Jambalaya, or his opponents in the party. If he was irrelevant, and if nobody would listen to him, they wouldn't put such immense effort into lying about him, misrepresenting him, and trying to drown out what he actually says. They would just leave him to be irrelevant.

A strange irony, this. You can measure someone's weakness and strength best by how and where they're attacked. And Corbyn is mostly attacked for things he [i]hasn't[/i] said, not for things he has. And as demonstrated in a million STW threads, if your first resort is ad hom and straw men, it's because your own argument is poor.

The real problem with Corbyn's Labour- and this isn't Corbyn alone, it's a multitude of shortcomings- is that they're not effective at countering this. They're too internally conflicted so their leaders can't depend on support, and their frontmen aren't strong enough. So poor arguments are working. ChrisL made a very canny observation a while back... what Labour have missed most is an Alistair Campbell. Corbyn wants to fight clean but he needs an absolute bawbag, to fight dirty for him.

He is obviously not irrelevant because he is the leader. The problem with your thesis it doesn't distinguish between those who are dangerous to their opponents and those that are essentially rubbish. You are never going to be ignored as leader. I am afraid I think in this case it is the latter.

Corbyn wants to fight clean but he needs an absolute bawbag, to fight dirty for him.

Many in Labour would say he has got plenty of these doing this for him.

EDIT:

The real problem with Corbyn's Labour- and this isn't Corbyn alone, it's a multitude of shortcomings- is that they're not effective at countering this. They're too internally conflicted so their leaders can't depend on support, and their frontmen aren't strong enough.

But that is a failure of leadership.

I think mefty sums it up well. As a labour leader, while he's quite good at being labour he's phenomenally bad at being a leader.

Just having principles doesn't carry any weight.

Just having principles doesn't carry any weight.

Just a few weeks ago Corbyn was elected leader with nearly 60% of the vote - more support than any other Labour leader in history, and double what all the other candidates put together got. It seems to me that having principles does carry some weight, ie, I doubt that it was his inspirational speeches and clever soundbites what done it.

mefty - Member

He is obviously not irrelevant because he is the leader. The problem with your thesis it doesn't distinguish between those who are dangerous to their opponents and those that are essentially rubbish.

I don't know why you say that tbh. If he was essentially rubbish, they would have no reason to attack him like this- he'd be their ideal Labour leader, and they'd want him in charge for as long as possible. If his fall were inevitable, they'd want it to happen later, not sooner, closer to the next election. The strength and nature of the attacks speak clearly IMO.

mefty - Member

But that is a failure of leadership.

How so? The divisions which plague the party pre-date him.

The real problem is the divide between the parliamentary party and the wishes of MPs, and the party [i]membership[/i], not the leadership. Corbyn's mandate is clear, and that divide doesn't go away just because you get rid of him- it gets worse. Some of the talk just now is of kicking him out and preventing him running again- which is essentially admitting that they think he could be re-elected and they want to defeat the democratic process of their party and disenfranchise 60% of their members. That's catastrophic. This is what he's up against, people who're prepared to break the party apart. (I won't say "risk", I think it's a given; a coup now destroys the membership and the campaigning machine. You'll notice there's people who want rid of him but nobody that wants to replace him...)

(people rightly say, the party isn't the electorate; but with mayoral and local elections coming up, good luck running succesful campaigns having just given 6/10ths of your members the finger and having publically split your party in two.)

Personally I think Corbyn and the Labour party desperately need rid of these nutters. They'll still be nutters even if he leaves tomorrow. But he needs them to be incorrigible before he can act.

And a new leader can't suddenly create a new team- the most noteworthy thing about his opposition in the leadership race was that the party's brightest and best were pretty damn rubbish. The party is weak regardless of who's at the top and a leader can only lead the team he's got. (this [i]is[/i] a failure of leadership, just not this leader)

mefty - Member

Many in Labour would say he has got plenty of these doing this for him.

Who? Well, OK, I know there's many people in the party right now who'd deny the sky is blue if Corbyn said it, but apart from them?

giving credibility to [s]T[/s] terrorists and [s]who's[/s] whose party is generally more lax on moral issues ?

FTFY

He is frankly out of his depth, [b]this is no shame on him,[/b] it is an incredibly difficult job leading the opposition

Exactly. I feel sorry for the guy because he is set up to fail. He knows (and knew from the start) that he is not the right guy and for the rest of us its a case of the Emperor's New Clothes. It just requires the little child to state the obvious - he is politically and economically naked. And for all the press hounding accusations, well yes, but at the same time his "rise" was a classic press fuelled event in itself (remember Clegg and the new vision from the TV debates?). Unfortunately we have the press and the politicians that we deserve.

I fear for his personal well being. FWIW, I agree with him on his anti-bombing stance but little else. But he doesn't have his party with him and his allies are very weak. He must be feeling very, very stressed right now. I hope that it doesn't take too much of a personal toll. Sad really....

This thread reads lile me saying why I I wont vote for a certain tory leader when the answer is ALWAYS because they are a tory, the same applies to those on here damning Corbyn with their feint praise and their heartfelt sincerity for his malaisse

As for his rise being press fueled by the press [ I honestly laughed out loud at that its ludicrous] who could disagree about the overwhelming wave of support there is for Corbyn in the press before and after 😯 One tires of reading the fawnin praise for him

What a very odd claim THM and the you hope he is ok shows you for what you really are that is a pretty horrible way of going he is not up to the job, mentally weak and he may have a breakdown. All pretty personal attacks wrapped up as "concern"

But he doesn't have his party with him and his allies are very weak.

Not sure I agree there. The party as a whole is with him, it's his MPs who are not. It seems to me those MPs have a choice, they can continue with their spoilt-child dummy out the pram stance and undermine and manoeuvre against Corbyn at every opportunity, which will hand victory to the tories, or they can honestly ask themselves whether they can support the new wishes of the greater labour party. If not the latter they should either step aside or be deselected. His opponents and the media are doing a good job of turning irrelevant things like McDonnell and his red book into a media furore, with the obvious aim of painting a picture of incompetence. People can see through that though, and they won't forgive the cut your nose off to spite your face infighting for much longer. I actually think Corbyn is playing it quite well by turning the other cheek, rising above the childishness and continuing with his attempts to win his critics round. As long as he has the people who voted for him behind him he'll be ok, and I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise.

I feel with absolute certainty that a few years down the line, having hurled ourselves into another disastrous middle eastern quagmire that we can't extricate ourselves from, and which has produced yet further horrific consequences for ourselves, Corbyn will be too dignified to say I Told You So

I don't know why you say that tbh.

Simply because it is what I believe, there are plenty of observers who think Cameron is going relatively easy on him.

How so? The divisions which plague the party pre-date him.

To an extent, and no leader can expect to quell all noises off, however he seems to have upset many in his shadow cabinet, who were at least willing to give him a chance, and that has magnified his problems.

Who?

Labour MPs, and not just the most outspoken ones, are talking about being threatened with deselection etc.

but its still not his fault the PLP is at odds with the membership. Granted he is the figurehead or the physical reality of this but the real issue for labour is that those elected are less left wing than those who are members

Its true none of us know how this will be resolved but, fairly obviously, the leader has the support of the members and not of the PLP

This will inevitably lead to difficulties that his opponents can exploit as "concern for his well being" or just present the party as disparate and unfit to rule.

He is the first genuine opposition we've had for years.

Sort of true, however it primarily appears to be his own party members he's in opposition with...

Just a few weeks ago Corbyn was elected leader with nearly 60% of the vote - more support than any other Labour leader in history

We never doubted Corbyn would be popular with a broad swathe of Labour voters, but that's not enough to win an election. What's important is whether he can win back voters who've left the party and/or win new converts.

I read in the Guardian today that Len McClusky had told Corbyn to be more careful with what he says and not just spout out the first thing that came into his head. As I've said before Corbyns been doing that for years and he was mostly ignored, now he's leader he can't spout the same nonsense. The Labour Party would be well served to look at Hollande, a left wing politician who managed to get elected and has actually dragged his rock bottom popularity up a bit with his response to the January and November terrorist attacks.

Just having principles doesn't carry any weight.

Sad state of affairs :/

 

He had more support as this was the first election held with the £3 a vote system. Any comparison with the past is irrelevant as that was a different voting system.

He won every election college. You can't fault the mandate he got from the Labour electorate.

Corbyn's ratings are better than Hollande's, even after his recent uptick.

I wouldn't fault his mandate, just responding to the comment that he was the most popular leader ever.

The Paris attacks have forced Corbyn to be exposed on his weakest issues, terrorism and security. What I am surprised at is how he has not been better prepared, surely he must like most of us realised such an attack was quite probable ? I don't see him surviving too much longer with Watson and Benn openly against his position. Dianne Abbott complaining about lack of loyalty from the Shadow Cabinet was laughable, who would be loyal to a man that's voted against his own party 400-500 times ?

[img] [/img]

Dianne Abbott complaining about lack of loyalty from the Shadow Cabinet was laughable, who would be loyal to a man that's voted against his own party 400-500 times

Herein lies the big problem with Corbyn. On his way power he presented a 'new politics' of open debate, but also 'party unity' - he just can't ride both horses at once. We heard how there would be a democratic revival in the party whereby the leadership would be steered by the membership - yet he discarded this overnight on nuclear policy. Then this week we hear that the shadow cabinet would meet to decide a collective stance on Syria, and Corbyn goes and torpedos this by sending a letter to all the MPs undermining that collective responsibility. Whenever he is interviewed on telly he is paralysed into mealy mouthed fence sitting, trying to avoid answering the question for fear of committing himself to anything - if he wants to be respected, then he needs to stop sending such contradictory messages himself.

It seems to me those MPs have a choice, they can continue with their spoilt-child dummy out the pram stance and undermine and manoeuvre against Corbyn at every opportunity, which will hand victory to the tories, or they can honestly ask themselves whether they can support the new wishes of the greater labour party

Precedent?

there are plenty of observers who think Cameron is going relatively easy on him

I think this is true. The Tories would love Corbyn to stagger on for as long as possible, slowly pulling the Labour party apart.
Then would come a protracted and messy leadership election, by which time the next general election would be upon us, with Labour in no state to effectively campaign.
If Corbyn survives until Christmas I can see the press wolves being called off him for a while, then go in with vengeance in about a years time.

Jamba, when you were trained not to recognise the emotion of feeling embarrassed (because that's how you should feel when you post such shite), who did it? I'd be interested to hear how it was trained out of you?

[i]deadlydarcy - Member
More cheap smearing. No surprise there then. [/i]

No surprize at all...
😉

Lord preserve those who dare disagree with the STW big hitters, eh?

"lacks the where with all to make it come across in a radio friendly 10 second soundbite."

I cant help feeling that might be partially down to the media not wanting to find 10 second sound bites. The media can pick and choose what they broadcast/print to suit their own agenda and there is nothing that JC or anyone else can do about it. and that piece of turd murdoch owns most of them!

Just having principles doesn't carry any weight.

Sad state of affairs :/

damn straight. so many people seem to be concerned with how well he plays the politics game, and dont give a second look to his actual policies.

The tories got in because the left is so wildly divided. In my humble opinion, the greens (who i voted for), need to suck it up and ask their members to support JC. Natalie Bennet has already said she doesnt worry abnout JC, as he is pulling in the same direction as she is, so if he wins she gets what she wants, even if she isnt sitting in the driving seat.

there are plenty of observers who think Cameron is going relatively easy on him

He'd be crazy not to.

For 20 years the two main parties have been fighting over the centre ground where the votes are.

Now one party has given up on the centre ground and ****ed off to chase Green/SNP/Non voters. The last thing the Tories want is the Labour party coming back onto their turf. Corbyn is a political gift for the Tories and LibDems and a curse for the Greens/SNP. (Although how much of a curse remains to be seen.) Hard to imagine why the Tories would want to put effective pressure on Labour to come back onto their turf, quite the opposite.

dont give a second look to his actual policies.

What policies! He's not announced any.

The goodnewz is that people are waking up to just how insidiously contrived the left/right paradigm actually is ..

I share @outofbreaths views, it's the centre ground which wins the elections and if you are a Tory right now the last thing you want is to see Corbyn deposed. Also if the Tories start attacking Corbyn it may cause the Labour Party to rally around him whereas now they are ones doing the attacking, even TommWatson the deputy leader is on his case !

Where I disagree is that Corbyn hasn't announced any policies, he announced he was going to print money to pay for everything - Corbyns version of QE

he announced he was going to print money to pay for everything

No he didn't!

No he didn't!

Of course he didn't - don't sound so surprised ffs. The credibility of the comment was completely undermined by the fact that it was made by jambalaya.

Ever noticed how the " liberal, caring, concerned, socially minded and fair" types who spout equality on rights for all are actually the most dogmatic, narrow minded selfish people out there. They have no interest in the views of others but are happy to spout insults and abuse at anyone who is not so"nice" .
Now am I talking about JC or some of the posters above?

And shouldn't any politician put his personal principle way behind those of his constituency first, the country second, and the party third?

There is no doubt many on the left are intolerant and rude about the right and no doubt, as your post showed, that the right are rude back

Given this what exactly is your point?

And which point did I indicate that my views were rightward leaning?
Some might be, some most definitely would push Marx to feel sympathy towards DC.
The point is that those who promote being nice are so often those who actually are so unpleasant to any who dare disagree. It tends to be a trait. Religion often has the same view as do those who feel strongly about equal rights.
"Treat everyone the same but you are not allowed to disagree". That sort of thing.

Anyway on a more important note, could the OP learn to spell please?
Or burn down Garmin. See other post 🙄

Ever noticed how the " liberal, caring, concerned, socially minded and fair" types who spout equality on rights for all are actually the most dogmatic, narrow minded selfish people out there.

No. I have however noticed that there are dicks on both sides. Try not to be one 🙂