You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Anyway:
What he should say is that people have been fed lies. That he is going to finally tell us the truth. That immigration is not responsible for the housing crisis, or for the one in the NHS. That asylum seekers being housed in a hotel is not the reason your high street is empty, your industries mothballed, your public spaces scorched, your councils bankrupt, and your community spaces shuttered. That we have laid at the door of immigrants the consequences of an entire economic model that has defunded the state and privileged big businesses and private capital, and concentrated asset accumulation in the south of the country with no foresight or plan. That immigration is not the biggest problem we face; that would be the disgrace of inequality and rising child poverty in the sixth wealthiest economy in the world. He will not say any of this, because Labour cannot be seen to threaten higher taxes or higher spending. Better to blame a lack of growth, and then be muzzled by the implicit cosigning of austerity when immigration is blamed for its consequences.
Many on here including me were concerned that Starmer wasn't going to tackle the Tory rhetoric after Labour won. We were constantly told the only thing that mattered was to 'Get the Tories Out.' The irony that the previous Tory landslide was won on the slogan and the idea that the most important thing was to, 'Get Brexit Done' was entirely lost.
Well, they Got the Tories Out and yet we're left with the exact same problems as after the Tory landslide. Pithy slogans are fine but only if they can be followed up with actions. And to take meaningful actions you need an objective and a plan.
We're still waiting for Starmer to step up. We could be waiting a long time because, of course, he never said he was going to step up during the campaign so we can't exactly complain he isn't delivering on his promises.
but only if they can be followed up with actions.
The actions to improve the lives of the minority of folks who came out to riot are the work of generations. Improving their education, their accommodation, their skills and their employment prospects is not going to the work of ten minutes and announced to a fan fare. I don't disagree with much of that opnion peice (I read it also) but telling folks that they believe a set of lies, and here's 'a truth' told to them by the same set of folks that occupy the same strata in the country isn't going to change a thing, they're not paying attention to it.
Yep, nobody is justify JSO and their activities.
Speak for yourself. I fully support JSO's actions and think their protests are fully justified. Disruption to people's lives might be annoying, perhaps even dangerous sometimes but it's nothing compared to the danger and disruption future generations will suffer from climate change. That's why they do what they do, to wake people up to what they refuse to acknowledge and take responsibility for. The problem we have today is that the general population either think climate change isn't as big a problem as they were first told, or that it's all in hand and being resolved by renewable power and more recycling etc. Neither are true and JSO are doing more than many others to hammer that message home in the most direct (and peaceful) way they can.
Erm, he’s only been in power for 6 weeks. What exactly are you expecting to happen in that time?
This.
Am I optimistic? Not especially. But it seems somewhat unfair to expect anyone to reverse umpteen years of Tory vandalism in a month and a half.
Erm, he’s only been in power for 6 weeks. What exactly are you expecting to happen in that time?
This is for the UK government thread but since the question has been asked how about "a clear vision"?
After all apparently the majority of voters worryingly believe that the UK is heading in the wrong direction:
Of those polled, 22% said that they think things in Britain are heading in the right direction, 52% in the wrong direction and 19% neither.
And back on topic, with the exception of not pointing an accusing finger at Farage and shining a spotlight on his culpability I thought that Starmer dealt with the far-right riots fairly well. Unfortunately according to opinion polls the voting public don't agree, although they support the harsh sentences imposed on the rioters by a large majority.
I suspect that Starmer's problem, with respect to the public being unimpressed with his performance during the rioting, is probably fundamentally down to the fact that he so desperately lacks any charisma.
A more charismatic Prime Minister might have judged the mood of the nation and have gone to the scene of a particularly violent riot and made a rousing speech denouncing hatred and division and loudly proclaimed their commitment to democracy and the rights of all individuals to live free from fear, followed by one-to-one interactions with local residents who had been affected.
But he isn't known for his deep commitments and passionate speeches.
That's not very fair, he's a dull, logic-driven, prosecutor. He's not Obama and to be candid we went down the popular orator route and look what happened.
Judge him in 6 months, not 6 weeks. If things haven't started to change then you can throw mud. You don't need charisma to be a good leader.
Wait 6 months to criticise him? Like the voting public I will judge him on how he performs on a day-to-day basis. As I said I with the exception of the Farage issue I thought that he dealt with the riots fairly well, that doesn't appear to be the majority view of the electorate though.
And pollsters fully recognise that Starmer is still enjoying the honeymoon period which all new PMs can expect btw. I am not sure that it will extend for 6 months though. I guess it will depend on how he deals with inevitable crisis.
I suspect that Starmer’s problem, with respect to the public being unimpressed with his performance during the rioting, is probably fundamentally down to the fact that he so desperately lacks any charisma.
Nah, that's the sort of bobbins Sunak was desperately trying to sell in June. Biggest problem was the right's shiny new narrative of "2 tier policing". Gained a load of traction, that has.
I find myself agreeing with ernie on Starmer's performance re the far right thug riots.
I would have preferred him to pin this on Fartage more firmly - the right is split at the moment - the opportunity is there to clearly show that there is an 'acceptable' right wing and an unacceptable one. Not just a continuum.
But overall the approach of Starmer and Cooper seems to have stopped the actual rioting as promptly as can be reasonably expected.
That’s not very fair, he’s a dull, logic-driven, prosecutor.
Well whether he likes it or not he's PM and PMs are expected to visit places and speak to the public from time to time, especially at times of crisis and tragedy as in this case. If he doesn't do that then he'll rightly be labelled as aloof, out of touch, uncaring and all the other things which will damage his chances at the next election. The UK electorate do not like aloof technocrats, they want a visible, inspiring and empathetic leader who can connect with normal people.
I think many agree he/they dealt with the riots themselves pretty well. This time.
However, the underlying cause of the riots remain and that has to be dealt with because it is going to manifest itself again. Not necessarily as riots, but perhaps in another way that doesn't end up with public opinion going against the perpetrators.
He needs to do something to start to deal with the decades of lies that have somehow managed to successfully lump illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and legal immigration into a single bag that the right can then say is what is making people poor.
He needs to do something to start to deal with the decades of lies that have somehow managed to successfully lump illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and legal immigration into a single bag that the right can then say is what is making people poor.
Agreed. Stopping people chucking bricks and bottles needs doing first. But it is not all that needs doing.
You can reasonably criticise day to day based on what he (Starmer) says and does. I will do the same, I didn't vote for him, disagree with some of his plans and promises.
But you can't reasonably criticise him day to day on how things are now. That's what was left over from a decade of increasingly spiteful vandalism and division, and it would take a while to turn round however perfect he was.
My apologies, I came to the wrong conclusion based on the fact that Starmer's popularity fell during the rioting. I assumed that it was due to his handling of the crisis (perhaps his personal performance did effect that?) but the public approved of the Labour government's handling of the crisis
Public approves response to riots but Starmer’s appeal fades, new poll shows
In terms of the severity of the response, 44% think the government has reacted proportionately to the outbreaks of violence and unrest and 26% think it didn’t go far enough. Only 18% believed ministers had overreacted. There was a similar view on the sentences handed out, with some 70% thinking they were either about right or not harsh enough.
But you can’t reasonably criticise him day to day on how things are now.
He can't reasonably be expected to have done anything to prevent these riots but he can be criticised for not doing anything to prevent the next crisis that is going to arise because of the conditions and the misapprehensions many people are living under.
I would have preferred him to pin this on Farage more firmly
An open goal which should have been ruthlessly exploited. Opportunities like that don't come very often
Half of voters think Reform leader Nigel Farage is responsible for riots, poll reveals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-uk-riots-poll-b2598252.html
The ground was very fertile and with precision attacks more damage could have been inflicted on Farage
Public approves response to riots but Starmer’s appeal fades, new poll shows
Yes Starmer's approval rating is -7% which puts him at the top of this lot.
Yes he's more popular than Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson, who would have thought it?
Public approves response to riots but Starmer’s appeal fades, new poll shows
And today's other big news is that water doesn't flow uphill
It was obvious that Starmer's appeal would fade?
New PMs have a honeymoon period until "stuff" happens
You know this - stop being a smart arse as usual
Ah, we are descending into insults now. Well it was pleasant for a while.
And no, I hadn't realise that Starmer's honeymoon period was already over, nothing smartarse about that
After all apparently the majority of voters worryingly believe that the UK is heading in the wrong direction:
I believe that the UK is heading in the wrong direction. I also believe - as do people in that poll you linked to (for what vox pops are worth, which is jeff all until the week before an election) - that we're better off than we were. I refer readers again to Douglas Adams' "lizard" quote.
I suspect that Starmer’s problem... is probably fundamentally down to the fact that he so desperately lacks any charisma.
Nail on the head. He makes John Major look like John Noakes.
I don't think you need charisma to tell people what the problem is and what you plan to do about it.
Obviously having charisma helps in delivering the message but if Labour are going to wait until Starmer develops a personality before they try to articulate a message I think people better start mentally preparing themselves for a Tory government now.
I know that you are a very poor quality troll but surely you’re aware of the impact of climate change to date, i.e. the current climatology and that future changes are pretty much baked-in. The only question left is how bad will this shit show be? The answer is a lot worse due to people with attitudes like yours.
If having a differ opinion to yours is trolling the I plead guilty. Having studied climate change for a few years I am very aware of the problem and the damage we, as a species, are causing to our planet. I’m also very aware that to stop it getting worse is going to require supranational cooperation d action. Our ability as citizens to influence is virtually zero. Even if we had a fully committed U.K. government it still won’t make any difference without a lot of international cooperation and I do t see that happening soon. Of people want to protest peacefully and legally about it then fine, but let’s not kid ourselves they are going to make any positive difference to the outcome
It's the same old, same old on here, people who don't like Starmer and the current Labour Party moaning that they aren't running the country the way they want them too, and using every avenue to blame them for whatever goes wrong.
Having studied climate change for a few years
Yet you appear to be embracing SSP5.85 rather than mitigating it?
perhaps even dangerous sometimes but it’s nothing compared to the danger and disruption future generations will suffer from climate change
I don't think Hallam and JSO is the cine qua non of climate change activists in the way that during his trial he tried to present himself as. I think if anything they just get in the way, they offer no solutions they just want folks to know very badly that they think climate change is dangerous.
"Climate change may kill people, and to prove it we're going to stage a stunt that may kill people". I don't think that quite the message they're going for if I'm honest. If if it is, and the message is in fact; "We want you to pay attention to climate change and in order to do that we're going to stage events and we decided we're prepared for people to die" . 5 years isn't ****ing long enough.
It’s the same old, same old on here
Yup, and you predictably turn up for the same old same old.
I can't see much "moaning" of Starmer on this thread beyond mild criticism that he didn't focus on Farage's obvious contributions to the misinformation behind the riots.
In fact the consensus appears to be that Starmer dealt with the crisis created by the riots fairly well.
But don't let that stop you regurgitating same old same old narrative that you always do.
He needs to do something to start to deal with the decades of lies that have somehow managed to successfully lump illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and legal immigration into a single bag that the right can then say is what is making people poor.
He's been PM for 6 weeks, Parliament's been in recess for most of that,not yet had a Budget to establish spending priorities.
It's not quite like rubbing a lamp and getting three wishes.
May kill people
If the drivers in the jams had the French/German reflex of making a corridor for emergency vehicles no lives would have been threatened.
I was on the A36 recently which stopped due to an accident which showed on Maps in minutes. Two cars moved to leave a corridor, me and another car on French plates. I heard sirens and moved as far over as possible, so did the other French car. The other drivers only reacted as the ambulance tried to push through.
However, I've been mightily impressed with the great British public who have done more to clear the streets of fascists than the government. Starmer - unimpressed, whoevet said he should have been taking on Farrage directly I agree with.
“Climate change may kill people, and to prove it we’re going to stage a stunt that may kill people”. I don’t think that quite the message they’re going for if I’m honest. If if it is, and the message is in fact; “We want you to pay attention to climate change and in order to do that we’re going to stage events and we decided we’re prepared for people to die” .
You're just making stuff up. Do give it a rest.
If having a differ opinion to yours is trolling the I plead guilty
you’ve told me in person in the past that you enjoy trolling people online!
He’s been PM for 6 weeks, Parliament’s been in recess for most of that,not yet had a Budget to establish spending priorities.
It’s not quite like rubbing a lamp and getting three wishes.
I keep seeing this 6 weeks excuse.
If he genuinely had no idea of the issues facing the UK and had no ideas on how to start fixing them prior to taking on the job then the UK probably voted the wrong person into office.
But OK, let's say he's just started and needs time to find his feet. How long before we are allowed to start pointing out his shortcomings? 6 months? 2 years? 4 years?
Yet you appear to be embracing SSP5.85 rather than mitigating it?
No I’m just realistic about how change will happen, how slow it will be be and how little a single country can do let alone an individual or group of individuals.
you’ve told me in person in the past that you enjoy trolling people online!
I’m not sure we have ever met so I’m not sure when we had that conversation. Again if you define trolling as having a different opinion on a subject then there are lots of trolls in your world
"Keir Starmer condemns 'intolerable racist' riots in Northern Ireland shocker"
An open goal which should have been ruthlessly exploited. Opportunities like that don’t come very often
Half of voters think Reform leader Nigel Farage is responsible for riots, poll reveals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-uk-riots-poll-b2598252.html
The ground was very fertile and with precision attacks more damage could have been inflicted on Farage
The majority of the people who supported Farage will support the alleged motivation behind the riots, if not the riots themselves. Quite a few will have been displeased that he didn't push against the trouble caused by counter protesters and has largely remained silent. Attacking him allows him to play the victim.
He makes John Major look like John Noakes.
I wonder if he is the same in person. Read several accounts from journalists and the like saying Major is actually really charismatic in person.
What if Starmer drove a Mitsubishi Carisma, would you change your mind then?
I keep seeing this 6 weeks excuse....
But OK, let’s say he’s just started and needs time to find his feet. How long before we are allowed to start pointing out his shortcomings?
What really major long term problems have you/your employer solved in the last 6 weeks? Serious question. If these things are so obvious and simple.
I'm also disappointed at what I haven't heard from the new government. But I'll judge by their actions in 6 months, not their words in 6 weeks.
What really major long term problems have you/your employer solved in the last 6 weeks? Serious question. If these things are so obvious and simple.
Within the first six weeks of arriving at a new company? Absolutely none.
However, after 6 weeks in a new company I've got a good idea about the issues and I'm able to articulate a plan to begin improving things. More importantly, I'm able to articulate a goal for where I think the company should be in 5 years.
Starmer hasn't had 6 weeks. He's had 4 years as leader of the opposition. If that hasn't allowed him time make a plan of action and articulate it to the country then I don't know how much time is going to be enough.
If there hadn't been a fairly large outbreak of rioting then the argument that parliament wasn't in session, everyone is on holiday, etc might have held water. But there was, so some acknowledgment of the conditions and misapprehensions that led to the violence and at least a rough outline of how these are going to be tackled should have been made as soon as things settled down.
So far we've had nothing. That's a problem.
So far we’ve had nothing. That’s a problem.
Over 400 charged so far, dozens given lengthy prison sentences, changes in prison procedures to accommodate more prisoners, changes being reviewed on tackling extremism and the crimes committed within these areas, etc, etc.
Is it possible you can just admit you don't like the current Labour government, Starmer isn't a one man band, but gets named every time something occurs, what exactly are you after, the Prime Minister of the UK to raise a press conference every time he has a soundbite, visit the scene of every crime, micromanage all his cabinet personnel at each crisis, what?
Rioters Get Time
Cooper's Gonna Get`ya
Livestream Your Crimes
Farage Stokes Hatred
Starmer Secret Gigolo
Is that clear enough for the people missing the absolute shower we had for 14years?
Is it possible you can just admit you don’t like the current Labour government, Starmer isn’t a one man band, but gets named every time something occurs, what exactly are you after, the Prime Minister of the UK to raise a press conference every time he has a soundbite, visit the scene of every crime, micromanage all his cabinet personnel at each crisis, what?
Is it possible you could actually read what I and others have written before going off on your usual rant?
It would make a refreshing change.
Is that clear enough for the people missing the absolute shower we had for 14years?
I hate to tell you but you got the tories out. Can't keep using that excuse forever.
https://metro.co.uk/2024/08/19/young-mum-balaclava-wearing-introvert-flasher-charged-riots-21451910/
Father of five Thomas Ward, 35, of Colliery Street, Manchester, was jailed for 32 months after waving his penis at female police officers during disorder in Manchester.
Ward, appearing via video link from HMP Birmingham, also deliberately targeted female police officers, reaching inside his shorts, taking out his penis and waving it at them, Manchester Crown Court heard on Monday as he was sentenced.
What a strange way to express your deeply held concerns with levels of immigration.
^^ It seems the rioters inhabit a very broad church, from those that have never seen the inside of a plcell to those that have spent as much of their adult life inside one as out.
That being said, the willy waver is possibly in an annex to the main congregation.
What a strange way to express your deeply held concerns with levels of immigration
C’mon we’ve all been there. One minute you’re discussing the impact of immigration on local services, and the need for safe routes to claim asylum, the next minute your hand is in your shorts and you’re waving your Big Fella at a passing member (geddit???) of the constabulary.
But I’ll judge by their actions in 6 months, not their words in 6 weeks.
Words come before actions and as Brucewee mentions, he has had 4 years to prepare the words. Words that actually state why the country is in a mess for so many people and the fact that the root cause for that is not immigration (with majority of it required and handled via Visas). Explaining what illegal immigration actually is (i.e. people over staying Visas) and plans to address that if it is necessary based on numbers.
Repeating that until at least some people start to get it that don't currently would be a good start in not adding to the number of idiots blaming immigration for everything.
I hate to tell you but you appear to not understand tenses.
It's true, despite having learned 4 foreign languages to B2 level over the course of my life I never understood tenses.
However, let me try.
Past tense: Keir Starmer did not explain why people were poorer and why it wasn't the fault of immigrants because he didn't want to scare Tory voters.
Present tense: Keir Starmer is not explaining why people are poorer and why it isn't the fault of immigrants because he has only been in the job 6 weeks.
Future tense (bit tricky because English doesn't have a future tense but here goes): Keir Starmer will not explain why people are poorer and why it isn't the fault of immigrants because **excuse tbd**
My worry is that the real reason Starmer isn't explaining these things is because a) he's still running scared of the right wing press and b) immigrants are just as useful to a Labour government looking to pursue neo-liberal policies as they were to a Tory government pursuing neo-liberal policies in that they provide an excuse as to why people are continuing to find their standard of living being eroded.
Hope I'm wrong about that but I don't think making excuses for Starmer and Labour is going to help anyone.
My worry is that the real reason Starmer isn’t explaining these things is because a) he’s still running scared of the right wing press and b) immigrants are just as useful to a Labour government looking to pursue neo-liberal policies as they were to a Tory government pursuing neo-liberal policies in that they provide an excuse as to why people are continuing to find their standard of living being eroded.
Your worries are entirely reasonable and I agree I would have preferred more clarity on this.
I'm just not leaping to assume the worst every time someone doesn't do what I want, when I want it.
Do you honestly think these types would listen or understand things being “explained” to them? They are not reasonable normal people. It’s not normal to go out and smash stuff up, nor wave your Willy at police. They just want an excuse to riot, in my opinion the thing they are rallying on is immigration, but the majority of the rioters are just people who want to get angry and do a bit of shouting. Rational sensible arguements dont really work on a bunch of irrational angry people who just want to cause trouble, however they can
DT78 I think it's much more complicated than that. Sure there's a few as you describe but many suffer from multi generational poverty and addiction with all the problems that brings. So when some shit stirrer like Farrage comes along and tells them their problems are all down to some other easily identifiable group they believe him/her and react in the way that seems most appropriate to them
These people don't operate in a vaccum. They've not had their misapprehensions about immigration (legal, illegal, and asylum seekers) and the connection to the cost of living crisis challenged by friends, family, and co-workers because so many people in society share the same mistaken beliefs.
Just because people were against the riots doesn't mean people don't believe the same things as the rioters.
It’s true, despite having learned 4 foreign languages to B2 level over the course of my life I never understood tenses.
You do seem a little tense.
Six weeks? Nowhere near enough time, but Starmsy has played what is in front of him pretty well - other than (on the purely political side) not using the Farage Riots to drive a wedge into the right.
Six months? Yes, I'm going to want to see some definite progress.
A year? That's the natural moment to really say that there is a clear direction of travel, whether it is the right direction and whether the velocity is correct.
(bit tricky because English doesn’t have a future tense but here goes)
Which will no doubt come as a surprise to industries like airlines and logistics, and weather forecasters everywhere.
The danger of Starmer - or any politician, responding to rioting with placatory speeches telling them how their lives will be improved is that it tells the rioters that they were right. That they had a purpose. It gives the sorts of folks that are stirring the issue; the Farages and Robinsons of the world all the ammo they need to encourage more rioting. "See? Get out onto the streets and politicians will listen to you" Post any riot, the only message that any govt can send is "we will punish rioting as fully as we can"
Do you honestly think these types would listen or understand things being “explained” to them?
Maybe not your EDL type who is a chronic alcoholic and wants a fight, but they are very small in numbers and despite the damage and fear caused by the rioting not really the problem.
The real problem includes the 14% who voted Reform UK six weeks ago. Can their opinions be changed through persuasion? Absolutely. They didn't get to the position where they are now on their own.
For a start they have been told for literally years, by the government no less, that one of the three most important issues currently facing the UK has been the illegal arrival of asylum seekers in small boats. They have heard endlessly about the negative effect this has on services and the cost to taxpayers.
They have endured literally decades of hostile rhetoric, from successive governments no less, towards Muslims. From the "War on Terror" to Israel's current "just war".
Politicians, senior politicians, have been feeding and stoking fear against foreigners in general and Muslims in particular for years, is it any surprise that for a small minority of people this has translated into intense hatred?
Politicians have had a significant role to play in the situation which we find ourselves in today. And whilst Labour have never matched the crass and crude levels of the likes of Patel, Braverman, and Sunak, with their crusade to stop the small boats, they certainly have, perhaps more subtly, contributed significantly with their neo-colonist military adventures which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of brown people in distant lands. And their steadfast support for that mostly English speaking outpost in the Islamic world, fighting for Western interests against an alien culture and indigenous peoples.
The real problem includes the 14% who voted Reform UK six weeks ago.
And the Farage Riots were the perfect opportunity to make these people feel like they are beyond the pale. Nail the riots on Farage, create a clear gap between acceptable right wing and unacceptable. It would also have put a-holes like Jenrick in a bind - who to back...
“We want you to pay attention to climate change and in order to do that we’re going to stage events and we decided we’re prepared for people to die”
I don't think anyone has said they're prepared for people to die as a result of a JSO protest. Has that even happened? Did they die because of the protest or because our roads are choked with traffic and drivers don't understand how to let emergency vehicles through when they appear? Or did they die because the emergency vehicles were late in any case? Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure blocking the M25 is a particularly good way of making your point, I'd focus more on the banks and corporate sector than normal people trying to get to work. But in a world where climate change gets completely ignored whilst a yacht full of millionaires sinking gets blanket news coverage for an entire afternoon you can see where they're coming from.
One thing that will continue to work in Starmer’s favour is the shit state of nearly everything after 14 years.
One of the things that will work in Starmer's favour is that the economy could be in a far worse situation than it is right now.
As far as inflation, levels of unemployment, and the risk of recession, is concerned, things aren't too bad. The UK economy has certainly experienced far greater crisis* than it is currently experiencing.
* Generally in 10-12 year cycles.
The danger of Starmer – or any politician, responding to rioting with placatory speeches telling them how their lives will be improved is that it tells the rioters that they were right.
It is not about telling them their lives will be improved, it is firstly about putting straight why their lives need to be improved and have become worse and that rioting or even supporting anti immigration is not the answer.
It is not about telling them their lives will be improved, it is firstly about putting straight why their lives need to be improved and have become worse and that rioting or even supporting anti immigration is not the answer.
But you need to do it in a three word slogan so the hard of thinking can understand it and the right wing press can't twist and distort it.
Has that even happened?
Thankfully no, but not through any actions of the protestors, it's not like they did a risk assessment. One of the vehicles trapped in the M25 was a lorry delivering food to a hospital. I personally know of a blood delivery vehicle that narrowly avoided it, had their their plan to block every motorway surrounding the M25 been carried out, the chances of deaths through direct accidents and indirect deaths caused by the complete standstill of the south east...who knows? Trying to fly drones into Heathrow airspace on the other hand puts lives in danger directly, but again not to Hallam and his fellow protestors, but to other people.
you can see where they’re coming from.
Yes, they should be free to protest. That shouldn't include the freedom to decide that their protests can involve the death of other people, regardless of how slim you me or they think that might be.
Think i never understand about JSO is how they're so big here, but not as visual in places like Norway, which i believe has about 3 times the fossil fuel production we have, or the usual suspects like the US, OPEC countries and so on, where real differences could be made in fossil fuel production due to the level of extraction in those areas.
I do agree in a way with NickC, but in a slightly different angle, the dangerous stuff JSO do isn't really any worse than a lot of what we see elsewhere in civil disobedience protests, but i do feel the targeting of the general public over the years is starting to see some attacks occurring on the protesters, which is not a good thing and we are just waiting for the first big incident to occur.
Not sure how we wean ourselves off fossil fuels, they are wide ranging implications, as it's not just going to be fixed by changing to electric cars, there's so much more, even electric cars run on bitumen covered roads, and use plastics and other fossil fuel based chemicals in their production. As someone else said earlier, i think scientists have to come up with a good plan and push it hard, and governments need to stop thinking in 5-10 year timescales.
Father of five Thomas Ward, 35, of Colliery Street, Manchester, was jailed for 32 months after waving his penis at female police officers during disorder in Manchester.
Part of the joy of this legal process is imagining those who froth from their armchairs about immigration and think they're part of a 'silent majority' discovering the type of people who are 'on their side' are exactly the type of folk who the Mail and Express have also been telling them to hate for the past few decades.
Probably too much to expect them to have their own 'are we the baddies?' moment.
Part of the joy of this legal process is imagining those who froth from their armchairs about immigration and think they’re part of a ‘silent majority’ discovering the type of people who are ‘on their side’ are exactly the type of folk who the Mail and Express have also been telling them to hate for the past few decades.
Well at least his protest didn't kill any children, like those JSO murderers, right? You need to decide what you want, exactly 🙂
I don’t think anyone has said they’re prepared for people to die as a result of a JSO protest
I went out for an ice cream yesterday. i didn't intend to run over a small child in the event that they carelessly stepped off the pavement in front of me, but I was fully aware that that might have happened. Still, ice cream is ice cream.
But you need to do it in a three word slogan so the hard of thinking can understand it and the right wing press can’t twist and distort it.
I am sure they have creative types that could come up with something - "Immigration is not the problem" okay that is 5 words but not really my area.
I suggest you do some reading about English future tenses. Then you will have learned 😉
OK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_tense#English
The will/shall future consists of the modal verb will or shall together with the bare infinitive of the main verb, as in "He will win easily" or "I shall do it when time permits". (Prescriptive grammarians prefer will in the second and third persons and shall in the first person, reversing the forms to express obligation or determination, but in practice shall and will are generally used interchangeably,[6] with will being more common. For details see shall and will.) The meaning of this construction is close to that expressed by the future tense in other languages.
Nope, still no future tense. It's OK though. There are workarounds.
Just to tenuously link the language discussion to the JSO discussion:
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180806-can-language-slow-down-time
Speakers of languages that the researchers classified as strongly future-tense-marking are a bit less responsible with regard to the future
Probably too much to expect them to have their own ‘are we the baddies?’ moment.
The paradox being that much of Labours support doesn't rate immigration as especially high on their list of issies or problems, but it does give this labour govt (like every other western govt) a problem. You need immigration to support the economy as the native population ages and gets smaller, at the same time, it's unpopular with great swathes of the electorate. We've seen the last Tory govt be wildly incompetent dealing with it, it's quite the achievement to have policies that are all at the same time; cruel ineffective and expensive.
Anyway, I'd imagine that two things will fall in Starmer's favour, 1 All he has to do is be less inept than the last Tory administration, and 2. demographics may (if he's lucky) take care of the rest, the ONS think that immigration rates will fall in the next few years anyway.
Nope, still no future tense.
English has four future tenses. You're using a narrow prescriptivist definition because there isn't a modification we make to verbs to express the future.
the ONS think that immigration rates will fall in the next few years anyway.
What are they basing that prediction on, out of interest? The 'success' of the 'hostile environment' over the past decade, or just the fact that we are such a basket-case of a country that there are now more attractive options for immigrants, skilled and unskilled? Not to mention more attractive options for our UK citizen skilled workers, if we're talking about net migration.
A brave government with a large majority needs to make the case strongly that we need more folk from abroad to pay for, and to wipe the arses of, our ageing population, and that stupid stuff like stopping overseas students bringing family over is cutting off our collective noses to spite our face.
Nope, still no future tense.
No, you mean English doesn't have an inflectional future tense that changes word spelling or adds prefixes suffixes etc etc to reflect past present or future, because unlike other European languages it's less influenced by Latin verb inflection and grammar. If you want a language that doesn't do even the conditional or uses auxiliary words - like English and many other languages do do infer future tense then you want German, where they say things like "We go to the movies tomorrow"
What are they basing that prediction on, out of interest? The ‘success’ of the ‘hostile environment’ over the past decade, or just the fact that we are such a basket-case of a country that there are now more attractive options for immigrants, skilled and unskilled?
A little of column A and a little of column B. Either way, if Starmer doesn't **** it up monumentally, and on past performance - where his normal approach seems to be do nothing, do the wrong thing, then finally do the right thing that he should've done at the beginning, then Ill be surprised if he hits this particular nail on the head.
Maybe those arguing about grammar should start their own thread lol
How much of that ONS graph is predicated on “tough” government action reducing immigration, or is it that potential immigrants are realising the streets aren’t paved with gold and there are probably much better places in Europe to head to?