[Closed] Avoiding Jury Service

Short of getting a swastika tattooed on her forehead

If it worked 18 years ago it should work again now - I'm surprised the last one wore off

I think they'd be pretty understanding about being part of a business that has only just been able to reopen.

Needing to breastfeed a baby got my Mrs out of it 16 years ago.

“Dear Your Honour,

Thank you for this opportunity to do jury service. I have been waiting years for the chance to put criminals behind bars and I look forward to delivering as many guilty verdicts as possible.

See you soon,

Mrs Zip”

Just ask for a deferral and see what happens.

Needing to breastfeed a baby got my Mrs out of it 16 years ago.

Probably less embarrassing to get the tattoo than try and use 'needing to breast feed a teenager' if she gets called up again now

Write to them and explain that her presence at the business is essential. See para 11 on page 5 of the guidance considered by summoning officers here:

Always helpful to quote some of the words used in this back at them when she applies to be excused.

Curto80. That's very promising ,you are a star.
STW to the rescue again.

Having done jury service - an my employer, who was German stop paying me during it ( in Germany, you get paid for the jury time by the state), I understand the hassle factor. But if nobody did jury service, then we wouldn't have juries.

You can ask for a deferment - but I wouldn't trump up a sob story. They are quite reasonable TBH, until they think the piss is being taken.

MrsMC has got called up. It clashes with a couple of her work cases that are due in the same courts in the same period, but her boss has agreed to get someone to cover her cases so she can get jury service out the way before her own court schedule goes properly mental.

Obviously much more complicated for anyone who is self employed.

With the huge backlog in court cases after Covid, I guess we can all expect the call as they try and push stuff through. The whole judicial system was broken due years of under resourcing pre-Covid, trying to get timely justice for victims and the accused in the next few years is going to be a nightmare.

They recently called up my 75-year-old mum - for the third time.

She's been shielding since March last year, I haven't seen her since last July, and the only way she could have got to the court was by bus.

She was terrified.

In the end she called her GP who thankfully provided her with a letter excusing her from her 'duties'.

Absolutely bonkers situation for her to have been in.

They recently called up my 75-year-old mum – for the third time.

She’s been shielding...

...Absolutely bonkers situation for her to have been in

Given jurors are randomly selected from the electoral roll - they have no idea if it’s first or tenth time, nor do they have access to medical records to know who is shielding.

Not sure what’s bonkers about it? It’s not like she tried to get out of it and they insisted she come? How do you suggest they get juries without inviting some people who are unlikely to be able to come in the current circumstances? I’m not sure if they have had to increase numbers but since anyone determined to dodge it only has to call up and say they have a temperature and they’ll be told not to come and book a test (which probably doesn’t come back quick enough to join the next jury) I suspect they may find they need more people!

You could of course just use the people on Twitter who preach that “it’s just flu” and it’s ridiculous that the country has shutdown... but I’m not sure I’d want to be judged by 12 of them!

Worst case scenario when you see the accused if you look down your nose and tut loudly while wearing a suit you quickly find out you didn’t get selected

I have only been called up once and was actually looking forward to a few days off work , when I heard the charge sheet the fella had more charges against him than Billy the kid . Also some pretty grisly stuff. I told the woman I was awaiting an operation which I had actually knocked back once before . She seemed quite perturbed and asked loudly what the op was . I told her It was a circumcision which was true , she went very red and told me I was dismissed. Still fancy a couple of days of work though.

When you are selected for jury service, the judge will question each one of you about your suitability. I could only serve on a case that would run fro two weeks or less - as I had a work trip to Moscow straight after that.
Hence I was excluded from the first case that went on for about 3 months in the end.

If everyone tries to get off jury service, then those serving on the jury will not be representative of the population. It needs to be random, and for people to do public duty for it to work.

How would you feel if you were the victim wanting justice and nobody could be bothered.
It is an interesting (if shocking) experience.

'As a lifelong anarchist, I will be impelled to find each and every accused not guilty, Your Honour.

Surely some bright spark should be calling up people dossing on furlough en masse

If everyone tries to get off jury service, then those serving on the jury will not be representative of the population. It needs to be random, and for people to do public duty for it to work.

How would you feel if you were the victim wanting justice and nobody could be bothered.
It is an interesting (if shocking) experience.

Honestly, the jury system is a relic of a bygone era. It would simply be much better to have a panel of judges review the evidence in serious crimes.

IIRC you can defer for 2 years.

It shouldn’t be that big a deal to do so I’d hope, however, she will be liable to attend at some point within 2 yrs of her deferral.

Honestly, the jury system is a relic of a bygone era. It would simply be much better to have a panel of judges review the evidence in serious crimes.

How so?

Can barristers still de-select jurors? I was told by a barrister to not be seen carrying a quality newspaper or wear smart clothes. A middle aged fellow juror (an actress off the Archers no less) in a tweedy suit was objected to and off she went. That process also makes juries unrepresentative.

My father was called up twice, whilst self-employed, both at colossally bad moments for his business, and was able to defer.

‘As an ex prison officer of sixteen years servicea lifelong anarchist, I will be impelled to find each and every accused not guilty, Your Honour.

as I can tell by looking.

I think they’d be pretty understanding about being part of a business that has only just been able to reopen.

The phrases 'legal system’ and ‘understanding’ in one sentence seems pretty optimistic. I believe in the jury system because I have met enough people who are currently judges to know we aren’t there yet with them being a representative cross section of society.

I realise that underfunding, particularly of the CPS and the legal aid system, has a huge part of the problems but the current system seems to be hugely biased in favour of the bureaucratic timetable rather than people caught up, if only as witnesses, in the system

If I was still employed by someone else I'd jump at the chance of doing jury service.
These days it would be impossible.

Honestly, the jury system is a relic of a bygone era. It would simply be much better to have a panel of judges review the evidence in serious crimes.

Honestly, in my experience as a juror, it doesn't come down to the evidence as there often isn't anything conclusive either way. It comes down to who you believe.

For the record, I've been on juries that have both convicted and acquitted the accused.

I've also deferred for 6 months because I was working away. They are pretty accommodating TBH - they don't want people who don't want to be there (edit: if they can help it)

Can barristers still de-select jurors? I was told by a barrister to not be seen carrying a quality newspaper or wear smart clothes. A middle aged fellow juror (an actress off the Archers no less) in a tweedy suit was objected to and off she went. That process also makes juries unrepresentative.

Rings a bell but truthfully I don’t fully recall how it worked out. I think the accused can reject a jury but not the barrister..

Juror challenging;

Tldr -Only in exceptional cases and not because you’re reading the Guardian or own a suit;

The methods of replacing one or more of the prospective jurors called into the box are:

For the prosecution to ask a juror to Stand By.
For either the prosecution or the defence to Challenge for Cause.
For the judge to use his discretionary power to remove a juror.
Prosecution to ask a juror to Stand By
The circumstances in which it would be proper for the Crown to exercise its right to Stand By a member of the jury panel are:

To remove a manifestly unsuitable juror, but only if the defence agree. An example of the sort of exceptional circumstances which might justify Stand By is where it becomes apparent that the juror selected for service to try a complex case is in fact illiterate or would for any reason find it difficult to follow the case.
To remove a juror in a terrorist or security case in which the Attorney General has authorised a check of the jury list, but only on the authority of the Attorney General and where the information afford strong reasons for believing that a particular juror might be a security risk, be susceptible to improper approaches or be influenced in arriving at a verdict.
Challenges for Cause
This can be made by either the prosecution or defence and may either be a challenge to the whole panel of jurors (challenges to the array) or to an individual juror (challenges to the polls).

Whilst the common law power of challenges to the array is preserved by the Juries Act 1974, it is now almost inoperative and is of historical significance only.

With regards to challenges to the polls, a juror can be challenged on the grounds of bias, which would cause him to be unsuitable to try the case. For example, where he has expressed hostility to one side or connected to one side in some way.

Procedure:

Any challenges for cause shall be tried by the judge before whom the accused is to be tried. See Section 12(1)(b) of the Juries Act 1974.
The challenge must be lodged before the juror is sworn (Rule 25.8 of the Criminal Procedure Rules) and cannot be exercised during the course of the trial. See the case of Morris (1991) 93 Cr App R 102.
The burden of proof is on the challenging party and the judge may order that the hearing shall be in camera or in chambers. See Section 118(2) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
The challenging party must provide prima facie evidence at the time that the challenge is made. This approach was confirmed in the case of Chandler(No 2) [1964] 2 QB 322.
Judges’ discretionary power to remove a juror
The judge has a residual discretion to exclude a juror selected by the initial ballot. The discretion should be exercised where an individual juror is incompetent to act but counsel do not challenge or exercise the right of stand by. For example, when a judge notices that a member of the panel is infirm or has difficulty in reading or hearing. This residual discretion was confirmed by the Court of Appeal in the case of Ford [1989] QB 868.

However, the Court also confirmed that judicial intervention should not undermine the random nature of jury selection or influence the overall racial composition of the jury. The Court held that the trial judge was right to conclude that he should not order a multiracial jury to be empanelled.

I'd take a look at whatever the list of exemptions is and try to find something that fits, even tenuously.
Alternatively ask your doctor to write you a note claiming depression or some other such thing.

From the gov site -
"You might be able to change the date of your jury service to another date within the next 12 months. You’ll need a good reason, for example:

you’re an essential worker
you’re having an operation
you’re sitting an exam
your employer will not give you time off work
you have a holiday booked

You can only ask to change the date once.

To change the date, reply to your jury summons giving your reason. When you reply you can suggest 3 possible dates in the next 12 months that work for you. "

I really have pity for anyone being asked. It could be fraud case or something where the victim hasn't been harmed fraud and the like,and i suppose that's a bonus but there's also the possibility it does involve harm,death or abuse, and that can have a lasting effect.

Alternatively, you could be Henry Fonda and see what nobody else is seeing 😕

It shouldn't be an issue to defer, ahead of time. But once you're there it's game on like Kilo posted above - I don't think jury selection with the defence barrister running the rule over you is a thing in the UK. There's an element of just grasping the nettle and doing it - there's never a great time to do jury service for most people.

I did one in Edinburgh that was 3 days, done. But one in Liverpool lasted many weeks - so the time commitment could be luck of the draw.

Honestly, the jury system is a relic of a bygone era. It would simply be much better to have a panel of judges review the evidence in serious crimes.

Do you say that from the perspective of the accused or the prosecutor?

Honestly, the jury system is a relic of a bygone era. It would simply be much better to have a panel of judges review the evidence in serious crimes.

I agree with you, and I suggested the same thing on this forum some years ago. The majority however thought that juries were a good thing.

I've wanted to be called up for jury service for several years, but have never been called up. I think it's one of the fairest and most impartial way to ensuring justice having a random selection of people decide the outcome of a trial.

I’ve wanted to be called up for jury service for several years, but have never been called up. I think it’s one of the fairest and most impartial way to ensuring justice having a random selection of people decide the outcome of a trial.

Every time I see someone reading the Daily Express / Mail I really hope they never get called up for Jury service esp with a non white defendant. They've been fed racist hatred and bilge day in day out their whole lives and then we put them in charge of someone's liberty?

I think it's complete madness. No wonder white middle class people have the lowest conviction rates...

Tell her to tell them to call me. I was once called for service a few weeks before I gained British citizenship, and so wasn’t eligible. That was 15 or so years ago, and I haven’t been called since, but I would love to be.

As others have said, defer. I've written a couple of letters for employees who we'd have struggled without due to seasonal work and the timings of JD, they went through unchallenged.

These seem like pretty good reasons to me, just need a bit of finessing 🙂

It will be 2 weeks after our shop reopens and they reckon for 2 weeks minimum.
Obviously this will be a really rubbish time to have her absent. There’s also no way I can run the shop on my own.
She would have to go to the centre of London on public transport and I’m really not happy for her to do that before she has had her jabs.

My brother's deferred at least twice just by having a job booked and sending them a (not exaggerated) breakdown of what it'll cost to hire someone as qualified as he is, to take his place, and a copy of his invoice showing what the loss would be if he has to cancel the job. I don't think any of those things would come under the listed excuses but they've always responded positively.

Every time I see someone reading the Daily Express / Mail I really hope they never get called up for Jury service esp with a non white defendant. They’ve been fed racist hatred and bilge day in day out their whole lives and then we put them in charge of someone’s liberty?

I think it’s complete madness. No wonder white middle class people have the lowest conviction rates…

Have you seen the demographic profile of our judges? Be careful what you wish for.....

I've been called up twice and both times asked not to do it as I'm self employed and work on my own so it would cost me two weeks work. Both times it has not been an issue.

What happens if you just ignore the letters etc ? Can't imagine they have anyone available to come and smash your back door in to see if you are there.

Have you seen the demographic profile of our judges? Be careful what you wish for…..

They might all be white, but I suspect very few read the Daily Hate every day.....

They might all be white, but I suspect very few read the Daily Hate every day…..

More likely to be the Daily Tory/Borisgraph....

@morecashthandash

Have you seen the demographic profile of our judges? Be careful what you wish for….

Are you suggesting that judges follow thr Daily Mail or similar in decisions and sentencing?

That's just another angle on "Enemies of the People"

Are you suggesting that judges follow thr Daily Mail or similar in decisions and sentencing?

That’s just another angle on “Enemies of the People”

No I wasn't, I was trying - and failing, obviously - to point out that judges are not exactly representative of the population in terms of age, gender, race, economic and educational background for those who feel that the jury system was flawed

Mrs Zip’s request not to do it has been declined.
She stated that the shop is reopening.
She looks after her mum and not happy to use public transport.
The notification came through at 9.20 tonight, is a robot responsible for a random response?
Any way to appeal?

Did she ask for a postponement/ change of date or to be excused?
You can still ask for a change of date if it was the latter. You can also appeal the decision, but what the success rate is I have no idea.
From the gov. Website

If your request is turned down, you can still ask to change the date of your jury service.

If you disagree with the decision
You can appeal if your request to change the date of your jury service or be excused is refused. Write to the Jury Central Summoning Bureau, including:

why you disagree with the decision
your juror number (this is on your summons letter)
your name and address
your date of birth
the name and address of the court you’ve been summoned to
the dates of your jury service
Head of the Jury Central Summoning Bureau
HM Courts and Tribunals Service
Jury Central Summoning Bureau
Phoenix House
Bradford
BD3 7BH

Thanks ,that’s an avenue for us to pursue.
It’s the Old Bailey so it’s unlikely to be a quick one.

It’s the Old Bailey so it’s unlikely to be a quick one.

Not necessarily. It’s also just a Crown Court for central London, so the vast majority of cases will be ‘mundane’.

Could get through a few cases over two weeks.

I turned up for mine, there were TV crews on the court steps. Got ushered into the main Crown court, defendents were in a dock with bulletproof glass from dock to ceiling. Judge explained the jurors selection process which included "Are you related to, or know someone in the local police force" my hand went up so quick. My partner's (at the time) brother in law was in the local plod armed response unit. So that was me excused. So spent the rest of my time at home, ringing up each morning for a no thanks message.

I've been called up twice. Both times they contacted me a couple of days before to say i'm no longer needed.

panel of judges review the evidence in serious crimes.

Like this bunch of illiberal types?

See many legal comment blogs for why that hasn't worked so well.

I've just had to do it

its was the worst work week per month plus another week. Tried to get out of it but ended up having to do it

What a complete waste of time and my tax money

What a complete waste of time and my tax money

You think that a fair trial is a waste of tax money? Would you think the same if you were accused of the crime?

What happens if you just ignore the letters etc ? Can’t imagine they have anyone available to come and smash your back door in to see if you are there.

Well if you have acknowledged the letter as Mrs Zippy has, you have a bit of an issue. You can't now use the "I had no idea about it, so not wilful contempt" argument. I don't know how often they will pursue contempt for failure to attend, I suspect most likely with those who have argued and still don't attend. No idea how they can tell if you "had a temperature yesterday and have booked a test" - under normal circumstances you'd be expected to provide a Dr's note to say you were unfit to attend but since you won't see a Dr.

On the other hand, the idea that its impossible to attend because the shop can't open and the mother needs care is probably somewhat tenuous - what happens if Mrs Z gets ill (there's a nasty virus going round you know!). The "don't fancy getting on a bus" line will definitely not wash with the court clerk who has probably had to get on a bus/tube throughout as an essential worker in London.

What happens if you just ignore the letters etc ? Can’t imagine they have anyone available to come and smash your back door in to see if you are there.

I was called up, just before a house move. Read the letter & put it to one side to respond & promptly totally forgot about it.

I assume the people who bought my house didn't get their back door smashed in & I never heard about it again. I've also heard of people just ignoring/binning the letter & never hearing anything. obviously not applicable in your case as you've responded now.

Easy one to get out of, just cough a bit, temperature & loss of taste/smell at the moment is a great excuse.

I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked. The lengths people want to go to get out of their civil duty, and no doubt complain about brazen criminals getting off scot free.

Thankfully I'm exempt, so can feel a complaint is right and just 😛

Medical. Doesn't need to be documented. "Ok but I must use the loo every 30 minutes or else" will work if it's really important.

Just wait until you need a jury - and are face with 3 judges who are politically appointed .

it might just be a good idea to turn up - or don’t whinge when the above happens ...

judges who are politically appointed .

Judges in the UK are not politically appointed. That doesn’t mean that accused of a serious crime I’d prefer Judges to lay people.

I’ve done a stint at the Old Bailey, 2.5 days sat in the canteen then sent home.  Just over 2 years later got called to Kingston CC.  Sent home the Monday of week 2 without seeing the inside of a courtroom. I really didn’t want to get called for a long trial as my job is not the sort where I can just walk away for several weeks and would’ve been stuffed if on a trial long enough that my employer no longer covered the salary.

Jury waiting rooms are split down the middle of people who really want to do it and have the time, and people who really don’t want to be there as have other pressing matters.

I really didn’t want to get called for a long trial as my job is not the sort where I can just walk away for several weeks and would’ve been stuffed if on a trial long enough that my employer no longer covered the salary.

For anything longer than 2 weeks they usually warn you, and my understanding is they are a bit more agreeable to excusal then - nobody wants to be three weeks into a six week trial when a juror suddenly “takes ill” or has to deal with a family emergency.

The loss of earnings allowance also starts to go up quite a bit once the cases become protracted.

Medical. Doesn’t need to be documented. “Ok but I must use the loo every 30 minutes or else” will work if it’s really important.

They may not routinely demand proof but the judge is perfectly entitled to ask for it. I expect it will depend if they think you are taking the piss or are struggling with numbers.

I received my letter last week.

They could be a little less provocative in the request!

The first thing you see opening the letter are the words ‘Jury Simmons’ so you think your in trouble!

Not told my employer yet as just awaiting the result of an internal interview.

Kind of looking forward to it, but 2 weeks is the Max I could do as we have a young son and Mrs FD hours of work can alter, and I’m the one who normally flexes my work for child care etc.

Does make me wonder that at some point I might have to have an ingrained dislike of (enter stereotype here)

Judges in the UK are not politically appointed.

You would hope not. I sometimes wonder how close Judge John Deed may be to the truth when MrsMC is watching it though.

The jury system is flawed in a lot of ways, not sure I fancy any of the alternatives. Secret Barrister is an excellent discussion of the issues

oddly if you just ignore the letters I suspect they might not smash your door in, but they can apply large fines or a few weeks of porridge I guess. It's not like your dealing with HokeyDokey Parking inc.

I agress juries are an anachronism. And you can't trust judges. Simply select people at random and send them off for a spell, or apply a fine. No one is innocent. Assign the crimes and number selected by postcode obvioously

Am I right in thinking that having a Saturday, Sunday,Monday pre booked hotel stay 3 weeks after Mrs Zip is due to start her duty means they won't stick her on a really long case?

That is my understanding.

What isn’t clear (and this could be affecting more people than normal this year) is whether “I’ve booked a weeks leave, planning on staying at the in-laws” counts as a prebooked holiday.

Am I right in thinking that having a Saturday, Sunday,Monday pre booked hotel stay 3 weeks after Mrs Zip is due to start her duty means they won’t stick her on a really long case?

I think you might be digging yourself a hole here. Mrs Z cannot possibly do Jury duty because not only does the shop need her in these economically tough times, she has caring duties for her mother which she couldn't possible get out of. BUT just two weeks later she can afford to take a three-day break... The Clerks have seen and heard it all before - and I suspect have declining sympathy for people with "ah but also this" excuses, ultimately the Judge would decide - and they aren't daft either.

FWIW - I'm guessing there is a good chance the weekend you are thinking of is a bank holiday weekend. In which case Juries don't sit on bank holidays so any long case would resume on the Tuesday.

Fwiw Mrs t-r was called up
phoned up and told them she was. Teacher ....

Boom no more jury duty

So tell them Mrs zippys a teacher.

think you might be digging yourself a hole here. Mrs Z cannot possibly do Jury duty because not only does the shop need her in these economically tough times, she has caring duties for her mother which she couldn’t possible get out of. BUT just two weeks later she can afford to take a three-day break…

We are using up trips from last year that were cancelled.
Going on Saturday night and the shop is closed Sunday and .Monday.
It will be the first time I’ve seen my 86 year old parents since October.So we are not exactly hitting club Tropicana.

Sent the the letter back stating I couldn't do jury service because I suffer with IBS and Diverticulitis which can mean i very little warning I need the toilet !!
2 days later I get an email removing me from being call in the future.

Bit of a thread resurrection. I was called up about 6 weeks ago for the usual 2ish week stint. I was emailed today to say it would now be an 8 week case, due to start on 10th Jan. This would leave me 4 working days to mitigate an extra 6 weeks out of work. I think that's an unreasonably short amount of time. I wonder if I ask for a deferral it might make it more likely to go back to a 2 week stint, some time in the future?

Just visit your local pub a few days before hand and you’ll be unable to attend due to covid isolation. Job done

Do they do the jury selection without you being present now? When I did my service a few years ago, the jury for any given case was selected from a larger group at the court. Perhaps you are going into a pool who might be selected for a longer case and so may not be called, or perhaps the protocol has been changed due to Covid?

Every time I see someone reading the Daily Express / Mail I really hope they never get called up for Jury service esp with a non white defendant. They’ve been fed racist hatred and bilge day in day out their whole lives and then we put them in charge of someone’s liberty?

I think it’s complete madness. No wonder white middle class people have the lowest conviction rates…

ever done jury service ?
Will all the people here wanting to avoid doing it, then the accused are going to get those that will bother to turn up. Now , if that is the Daily Express middle England pensioner so be it.
But maybe it is up to other segments of the population to take jury service seriously to even that demographic out.

Come the revolution when I'm in charge (gawd help us) the access path to our state pension would require a couple of months of jury service (or other voluntary community based work if not enough jury members needed). Old enough to have seen a bit with the security of a pension rather than screwing your work over, young enough to still have some recognition of what it was to be younger.

No jury service, no pension.

Come the revolution when I’m in charge (gawd help us) the access path to our state pension would require a couple of months of jury service (or other voluntary community based work if not enough jury members needed). Old enough to have seen a bit with the security of a pension rather than screwing your work over, young enough to still have some recognition of what it was to be younger.

No jury service, no pension

I would be against that approach - but it would be a skewed demographic with maybe less flexible ideas than , say, the 20-30 year olds.
Following the German system would make more sense - when you are called up for jury service , it is compulsory - but the state is responsible for paying you salary. Your company don't continue to pay you, so effectively they just have to hold the job open until the case finishes.
On the case I was on, it lasted 2 weeks - we could state when chosen whether we were able to commit to the time - but it had to be a very good excuse. In the prior selection one of the potential jurors knew the accused ! That case also lasted 15 weeks - so unless you are paid somewhat the financial burden on people is unacceptable.

I'm with you convert.

Received paperwork a couple of weeks ago for mid March 2022, never been called up before but may end up being excused due to minor connection to the case 😕

may end up being excused due to minor connection to the case

Please tell me you're the defendent...