[Closed] Average speed cameras work. Are they even on ?

ahwiles - Member

rebel12 - Member

It's completely selfish to drive at say 40 in a 60 limit when conditions would easily allow 60+

('morning all )

why?

didn't your advanced training teach you to expect to get stuck behind horses/milk floats/bikes/trucks/cattle/classic cars/cars running a space-saver/etc. and not to get stressed out when you do?

Yes but those vehicles can't go any faster can they so that's fine. A modern car on the otherhand can easily achieve NSL in clear conditions. Totally different.

xiphon - Member

Rebel12 » It's completely selfish to drive at say 40 in a 60 limit when conditions would easily allow 60+

And equally it might be considered selfish (in a dangerous way) to drive 60 PLUS in a 60 limit.

Why is it selfish? So long as it's safe to do so and I'm considerate of other road users it's not selfish at all.

Anyway I think this thread has gone on long enough. It's almost impossible to try and educate those that do not want to learn.

What makes traffic flow better is most people travelling at the same speed. The faster people go, the more braking is required so the more the speed changes.

Giving yourself a decent braking distance rather than driving up the arse of the car in front would have the same effect. You get these phantom 'standing wave' traffic jams when someone brakes, and the vehicle behind is too close and brakes harder, and so on. Sadly, we haven't yet invented Increase Your Braking Distance cameras.

I do speed occasionally, but I definitely do not do it habitually. Cruise goes on at 70mph on the motorway. And then people can't believe I get 60mpg from the Passat...

(it is nice when people pull over, i do it myself - it's a nice habit i made an effort to adopt when i lived in NZ)

When driving slowly you mean? I frequently pull over in the caravan. And how much motorway is on the journey is a factor in where we choose to go.

Giving yourself a decent braking distance rather than driving up the arse of the car in front would have the same effect.

It still happens, even if there is adequate braking distance, it's just not as bad.

rebel12 - Member

Totally different.

maybe, maybe not.

and what training were you given to deal with the insufferable stress when it happens?

molgrips - Member
When driving slowly you mean?

yep, i'm a slow driver, i can grow a 'tail' quite quickly.

my first car was a mini with drum brakes, i've had my fun/terror, i've found all the cars i've had since reassuringly boring.

Anyway I think this thread has gone on long enough. It's almost impossible to try and educate those that do not want to learn.

Taking your cricket bat home? Seriously though, have you considered at all the possibility that people don't want to be 'educated' because you might actually be wrong? Like I said at the beginning of all this, the silly justifications and logic-warping arguments do nothing to promote your cause, they just mark you out as someone who isn't willing to accept that they're wrong and be up front about it.

Then it's not 'adequate'. I'm not talking about the "two second rule", you need more than that to absorb the speed fluctuations.

Why on earth would people not want to be better educated? I don't think I want to share living space with those people.

Then it's not 'adequate'. I'm not talking about the "two second rule", you need more than that to absorb the speed fluctuations

Thing is, you don't realise how much someone in front has slowed down if they are a long way off. So you end up needing to brake harder than if you were closer. It ends up about the same I'd think.

And besides, when it's busy there just isn't the room. If you want to see how people CAN co-operate well in extreme traffic situations, try the M4 on a Friday afternoon between Reading and Swindon. Almost all the lorries have gone, and usually it's a raft of traffic all doing 50-60mph, fairly close, but still moving. The sheer volume of traffic still flowing often amazes me.

Giving yourself a decent braking distance rather than driving up the arse of the car in front would have the same effect. You get these phantom 'standing wave' traffic jams when someone brakes, and the vehicle behind is too close and brakes harder, and so on. Sadly, we haven't yet invented Increase Your Braking Distance cameras.

What we need is this:

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12215915 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12215915[/url]

Somehow I doubt though that the motoring lobby will be supportive of this type of thing.

Cougar - Moderator
Why on earth would people not want to be better educated? I don't think I want to share living space with those people.

And you get to hang out with some awesome folk on our real ale evenings.

Somehow I doubt though that the motoring lobby will be supportive of this type of thing.

I thought they were supportive of it? After all, most of us just want our motorway journeys over with unless we are on holiday or something.

And you get to hang out with some awesome folk on our real ale evenings.

Do you get trained how to drive home after six pints of of Old Growler?

I thought they were supportive of it? After all, most of us just want our motorway journeys over with unless we are on holiday or something.

Dunno. I'm happy to be corrected. I'd be interested to know the position of the likes of rebel12 and sbob on this though. There's huge potential for technology to make driving both safer and faster but it would mean drivers abdicating control to computers which I assume many wouldn't be happy to do.

My parents have the Focus which parks itself...it's pretty amazing to watch. I've been on a plane that landed under autopilot and would have no problem with either road trains or automated vehicles.

My parents have the Focus which parks itself...it's pretty amazing to watch

The scary thing about that is how fast it turns the wheel. It can apparently get itself into spaces that are quite hard to get out of manually!

Boy racers, fast cars...... caravans, real ale ...
I think I see both sides of this discussion 😉
Please can we all be a bit more considerate on the public roads ? 😉
Ta
Great thread btw ...

I've had a self parking car since 2006 🙂

Dunno. I'm happy to be corrected. I'd be interested to know the position of the likes of rebel12 and sbob on this though. There's huge potential for technology to make driving both safer and faster but it would mean drivers abdicating control to computers which I assume many wouldn't be happy to do.

Well I like to "make progress" along interesting roads, however I would happily let an onboard computer deal with motorway journeys and general commuting duties. The computer can do a better job than me so let it get on with it.

I'd love to have a car that drove itself. Driving is often pretty dull, especially on motorways.

molgrips - Member
I've had a self parking car since 2006

dazh - Member

I thought they were supportive of it? After all, most of us just want our motorway journeys over with unless we are on holiday or something.

Dunno. I'm happy to be corrected. I'd be interested to know the position of the likes of rebel12 and sbob on this though. There's huge potential for technology to make driving both safer and faster but it would mean drivers abdicating control to computers which I assume many wouldn't be happy to do.

I enjoy driving (even on a motorway) so I can't say I'd be overly keen for such a thing.

Self park, auto this and auto that is pure laziness and it means that the a driver may never need to learn proper car control. Electric handbrakes are pathetic - technology for technologies sake. Soon we might all end up sat vegetating in a box 24/7 surrounded by screens and technology doing everything for us. That's no life so far as I'm concerned.

Some level of risk is good - it helps us learn things and develop as humans. If we remove risk and skill from everything we do then life would be pretty sterile and pretty dull. Maybe that's the way some people want to go perhaps?

Having said that then I think though that this technology is inevitable eventually and so I'd probably have no choice but to adapt. You never know it could be nice to go out for a few pints after a long ride, press the 'HOME' button on the car and then sleep things off before you get home. That's not a bad compromise I suppose?

Self park, auto this and auto that is pure laziness

Lol. Washing machines, cars, computers, power tools.. all laziness...

Not entirely. Not only do I have more space in my centre console, but it also does safety related things like if I am in drive and I open the door, it puts the handbrake on. My wife's aunt saw an old woman being dragged down the road and ultimately crushed to death because she'd gone to get out of the car when it was still in drive.

That's no life so far as I'm concerned.

You may feel that cars are an extension of your personality, others just consider them utility transport. You must respect that. You will still be able to buy cars in the future with manual everything, because there will still be a market for it. It's NOT ok to denigrate a point of view simply because you hold a different one.

I'd be happy for my car to drive me somewhere - I'd be going to do something useful and fun when I got there, so accusations of it being 'no life' aren't really fair. To me, thinking your driving is your life is no kind of life.

 

What you need there is a thing called a "taxi."

Some level of risk is good - it helps us learn things and develop as humans. If we remove risk and skill from everything we do then life would be pretty sterile and pretty dull.

i agree, and there are still plenty of opportunities for us to manage risk; rock climbing/mountain biking/sailing/wheelchair rugby/rough pubs/etc.

Electric handbrakes are pathetic - technology for technologies sake.

Not entirely. Not only do I have more space in my centre console, but it also does safety related things like if I am in drive and I open the door, it puts the handbrake on. My wife's aunt saw an old woman being dragged down the road and ultimately crushed to death because she'd gone to get out of the car when it was still in drive.

And that's where the difference lies Molegrips. You would prefer to have the space inside the car for an extra cupholder. I would prefer the extra control that a manual handbrakes gives in severe winter conditions or in an emergency.

I suppose it's a bit like comparing someone who rides a normal bike with someone who's happy with an electrically assisted bike. Neither is right or wrong, and they both serve a purpose - it's just that I'm someone who would prefer to pedal.

As a side note, a work mate's electric handbrake didn't work fully and after leaving it her Landrover rolled backwards outside her house, crushing the bumper and bonnet of the car behind. Technology isn't infallible just the same was as humans are not either. Lucky there had not been a child in the way on that occasion.

I think that the old woman in your post deserves a Darwin award perhaps?

Cougar - Moderator
What you need there is a thing called a "taxi."

Yeah that's really practical for daily commuting.

And cables on manual handbrakes have never snapped? I'm not a particular fan of electric handbrakes myself but your arguments against aren't very convincing. The only time I use my handbrake in winter is messing about in the empty company car park if there's been fresh snow, actually driving in snowy conditions is very rare for me and I'd imagine most people.

I think that the old woman in your post deserves a Darwin award perhaps?

It was a tragic accident caused by an honest mistake. You really need to take a look at yourself if you think that's something to laugh at.

I would prefer the extra control that a manual handbrakes gives in severe winter conditions or in an emergency

a) that's fine, you will probably always have the choice

b) you should not be using the handbrake whilst driving in winter

b) you should not be using the handbrake whilst driving in winter

WFT! ????? 😆

The electric handbrake thing is a classic example of fixing something that isn't broken.

I've had two cars with it; a Passat, and my current i40. On the Passat, it took to failing to release, much to my embarrassment when I was at the head of the queue leaving a ferry. The auto-hold thing is nice, but really I think I'd forgo that for one I can release reliably.

And that's where the difference lies Molegrips. You would prefer to have the space inside the car for an extra cupholder. I would prefer the extra control that a manual handbrakes gives in severe winter conditions or in an emergency.

I'll have the extra cupholder please. Excuse my non IAM qualified ignorance, but what extra control does a manual handbrake give? I only use mine when I'm already stationary, and it has two states: on or off.

Auto-hold is a separate system to the electronic handbrake actually, on my Passat.

WFT! ?????

You handbrake your way around corners in the snow, on public roads?

You handbrake your way around corners in the snow, on public roads?

It's ok, relax, he's done a course.

I really hope none of you lot are driving to Fort William tomorrow.

The tailbacks will be huge 😀

Auto-hold is a separate system to the electronic handbrake actually, on my Passat.

Oh well if you drive a Passat I can understand why you don't like driving. Possible the dullest car on the planet - the automobile equivalent of porridge. Get yourself a good car - you might start to enjoy it.

Excuse my non IAM qualified ignorance, but what extra control does a manual handbrake give? I only use mine when I'm already stationary, and it has two states: on or off.

It allows you to handbrake turn and drive like a ****ing loonatic. There are other benefits but this is the answer you wanted to hear isn't it?

Must go now, I'm late for a meeting after sinking one too many pints at lunchtime and will now have to speed recklessly and without a care for my own or anyone else's safety to make it in time. Enjoy having fun with your cupholder 😆

There are other benefits

Like?

Rebel12, thought I recognised your 'name'

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/buying-a-car-not-from-the-registered-keeper

Imo, a secondhand RS4 says a lot 🙂

There are other benefits
Like?

Of course if it turns out rebel is talking bobbins again then by all means let rip 🙂

Oh well if you drive a Passat I can understand why you don't like driving

I do like driving. I also like driving fast. I am just grown up enough to know that it's far too ****ing dangerous to do on public roads.

The more powerful and capable a car is, the faster you have to drive to get any kind of thrill. The faster you drive (as above) the more dangerous it is, even if you are in a fancy car.

I had my choice of fast car when I was car shopping, but I bought a Passat because I wanted to enjoy relaxed comfortable driving, not look for speed and thrills.

I have an MTB for that.

GPS/telemetry box in my car? yep I'm in for 20% by choice but would welcome it being made compulsory (with proper checks and everything, no point making honest people jump thru hoops while the dishonest just bypass the system)
Telemetry should pick up more than speeding too, [b][i]constantly[/i][/b] burying the accelerator followed by hard braking would indicate crap driving so such behaviour would be punished via premiums, not immediate I know so not great, but maybe a warning beep at the time from the box would be a timely reminder to the driver to "cool their jets".

Road train yeah sounds a good idea, we'll be waiting for the technology to mature and proliferate, doubt I'll be using it in my lifetime. What if the lead driver is IAM trained? Tickets for all? 😉

it is nice when people pull over, i do it myself - it's a nice habit i made an effort to adopt when i lived in NZ, where literally EVERYONE does it, it's amazing

Weirdly, this is true. I say weirdly because, in pretty much every other respect, the standards of driving in NZ are pretty poor, and drivers are pretty selfish, and inconsiderate. You would never get let out of a junction in a busy town, for instance. BUT, on the country roads, people in slower vehicles pull off to let drivers of faster vehicles past. And not just farm vehicles or caravans, even Reg and Doris on their slow Sunday afternoon drive, will get out of the way of faster cars.

BTW re. the electric handbrake thing, the manufacturers know that no one likes them, they do it to save weight and hit eco-targets. It's not a solution in search of a problem, it's just a solution to a different problem from the one you might have thought.

they do it to save weight

How much weight does it save? The tiny drum brake in the hub of my Prius can't weigh much.. and the motor assembly for the caliper on the Passat is fairly hefty.

However I can imagine it'd save drag over the mini drum brake.

I really hope none of you lot are driving to Fort William tomorrow.

sadly I will be, so I shall take care, flashing everyone that overtakes me - just for the craic of course 🙂

The more powerful and capable a car is, the faster you have to drive to get any kind of thrill. The faster you drive (as above) the more dangerous it is, even if you are in a fancy car.

I'd say the opposite is true, for me at least.

When I've had underpowered cars, I've ragged the tits off them in order to get any sort of performance out of them (and by 'performance' I'm talking about climbing sustained inclines, not powersliding across McD's car park). With a bit of grunt under the right foot, that's no longer necessary. I'd hazard I'm a considerably more relaxed, smoother, and probably slower, driver in a bigger car than a smaller one.

That might just be me being weird, though. Could also be an age thing, I've grown up a bit since the days of normally aspirated 1.7D Fiestas (hateful things).

Made the meeting - now early thanks to some seriously excessive speed and dutch courage. Phew!

bearnecessities - Member

Rebel12, thought I recognised your 'name'

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/buying-a-car-not-from-the-registered-keeper

Imo, a secondhand RS4 says a lot

Come on what does that say Bear - spit it out please?

xiphon - Member

There are other benefits

Like?

Of course if it turns out rebel is talking bobbins again then by all means let rip

Anyway just to add, a manual handbrake can sometimes be used to regain control of steering and attitude in an inadvertant slide.

ABS can actually lengthen stopping distances in the snow by not allowing a wedge of snow to be built up infront of the wheels. Careful use of a manual handbrake can be used overcome ABS, building some useful wedges of snow ahead of the rear wheels and stopping in a shorter distance.

Any more questions????

sadly I will be, so I shall take care, flashing everyone that overtakes me - just for the craic of course

I'll be in a red Seat Leon with two bikes on the roof, make sure you give me a wave too 🙂

The best fun I had driving recently was a 1.2 3 cylinder Corsa in Ireland.

It handled well but was incredibly underpowered. However it sounded like a racing car heard from a great distance when you thrashed it. So I had great fun on country roads flogging the nuts off it doing about 45mph 🙂

With a bit of grunt under the right foot, that's no longer necessary. I'd hazard I'm a considerably more relaxed, smoother, and probably slower, driver in a bigger car than a smaller one

That's kind of my point. 60mph feels quite fast on country roads in a 1992 1.1 Polo, it feels like a crawl in the Passat. Another thing that stops me going too fast on country roads is the width of the thing.

ABS can actually lengthen stopping distances in the snow by not allowing a wedge of snow to be built up infront of the wheels. Careful use of a manual handbrake can be used overcome ABS, building some useful wedges of snow ahead of the rear wheels and stopping in a shorter distance.

I'm sceptical - I'd have to try that out.

Having said that, even on my winter tyres I'm going that slowly on fresh snow that I never feel any kind of panic, and I certainly never need to hit the handbrake. I've always been able to stop perfectly well and in control on snow, regardless of the car I've been driving.

Anyway just to add, a manual handbrake can sometimes be used to regain control of steering and attitude in an inadvertant slide.

It regains control of your attitude? 😕

It regains control of your attitude?

Aeronautical term, comes from years of glider flying - sorry, should have been clearer.

It kind of means a combination of the direction in which your car is traveling in relation to the ground, and the angle at which the car is actually facing compared to your direction of travel.

It kind of means a combination of the direction in which your car is traveling in relation to the ground, and the angle at which the car is actually facing compared to your direction of travel.

What's the IAM recommended method for controlling roll and yaw?

dazh - Member

It kind of means a combination of the direction in which your car is traveling in relation to the ground, and the angle at which the car is actually facing compared to your direction of travel.

What's the IAM recommended method for controlling roll and yaw?

Probably similar to the STW method for controlling Trolls.

Anyway have to go into a meeting now. Talk amongst yourselves . . .

The best fun I had driving recently was a 1.2 3 cylinder Corsa in Ireland.

It handled well but was incredibly underpowered. However it sounded like a racing car heard from a great distance when you thrashed it. So I had great fun on country roads flogging the nuts off it doing about 45mph

Christ on a stick - just noticed this and had to respond before I go. So it's okay to flog the nuts of a car driving close to it's limits so long as you [b]don't go over the speed limit and it's in Ireland?[/b] Well done Molegrips, that's the most stinking case of total and utter hypocrisy I've ever heard. Hats off to you!

Anyway must dash - Adios Amigo's 🙂

Well done Molegrips, that's the most stinking case of total and utter hypocrisy I've ever heard

with the obvious exception of the engine

😆

The Corsa, being brand new, actually had surprisingly big and wide tyres and the ride was excellent. As was the build quality, I was most surprised. But the engine was a nightmare. Merging to motorway speeds was really hard, and the economy was rubbish along with it.

Can I join IAM? 😯

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