[Closed] Average speed cameras work. Are they even on ?

dazh - Member

Err, just relax and drive a bit slower? If you have to be somewhere at a certain time, leave a bit earlier (only a bit, cos we all know driving fast doesn't save you much time anyway)?

I said that "The whole point of driving is to get from A to B quickly".
You disagreed.
Going to offer up an alternative view?
You've had plenty of time.

hora - Member

lose arms

Steer with your knees?
🙂

ahwiles - Member

possibly, the worst idea i've ever heard.

Would you care to expand on that?
I'm not saying it's a good idea but I think you have probably misunderstood what advanced driving is about.

hora - Member

The one thing that I will leave you with. Never ever panic.

The one instruction my friend got (possibly learning to drive in the army) was "If you're going to crash, do it as slowly as possible".
😆

sbob - Member

And it's cheap too.
Institite of Advanced Motorists

Go on, give it a click. Chances are you'll be able to find a group close to you and more often than not you'll be able to go out with an observer for no greater cost than your petrol for an initial assessment of your driving.

With so many lambasting the driving of others, it's great to see the number of comments and questions from those posters regarding the above. 🙂

Oh.
🙁

speeds will come down to legal levels, for more drivers for a couple of reasons

more and more company vehicles are being fitted with trackers which flag up speeding,agressive cornering and braking

younger drivers have the choice of forking out several grand to be insured or have a black box fitted and instead parting with several hundred instead

As for the average cameras a friends colleague got banned after driving through the M5/M4 interchange

sbob - Member

sbob - Member

And it's cheap too.
Institite of Advanced Motorists

Go on, give it a click. Chances are you'll be able to find a group close to you and more often than not you'll be able to go out with an observer for no greater cost than your petrol for an initial assessment of your driving.

With so many lambasting the driving of others, it's great to see the number of comments and questions from those posters regarding the above.

Oh.

Agree, I've done the full course and the first assessment was free. Seems too many people on here who want to tell everyone else what they can and can't do on the road yet turn their noses up at doing some further training to actually improve their own driving. Crazy!

Watch it with that brush, you're getting tar on me.

I've considered IAM or a.n.other course for years, but never really got around to it. I checked out sbob's links, and it seems there's a course starting near me next month. Funds permitting I might give it a go.

(Does the 's' stand for 'silent'?)

Idiots are easy to spot

No they're not. Not until their phone rings, or they need to change album on their iPod or something.

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks. Testosterone fulled alpha male bollocks.

I'm willing to bet most accidents are not caused by lack of car handling skills. Taking stupid gambles, reckless overtaking, not concentrating I think would rank much more highly.

I'm willing to bet most accidents are not caused by lack of car handling skills. Taking stupid gambles, reckless overtaking, not concentrating I think would rank much more highly.

molgrips - Member

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks. Testosterone fulled alpha male bollocks.

Firstly, I haven't mentioned car handling when talking about driver training.
Secondly, your mention of testosterone and the fact that you think it is "total bollocks" shows that you know nothing about the subject, and the [b]fact[/b] that insurers will often offer discounts to IAM members proves that you are wrong.

Do yourself (and everyone else) a favour; get some training.

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks. Testosterone fulled alpha male bollocks.

Clearly spoken by someone who actually knows very little about driving. Empty vessels make the most noise and all that . . . .

How ironical.

I'd be willing to wager a few bob that the 'not concentrating' contributes far more

+1, you beat me to it.

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks.

Molly, I like you, and you usually talk a lot of sense (often in the face of strong opposition). And I applaud you for that. But you're wrong on this one.

Driver training - any training - doesn't give you the right to then go acting like a tool because you're "better" than everyone else. And good training will teach you this.

It's the same argument with self defence classes. Do people go and sign up to kung fu classes and then go around battering everyone? Of course not; they get taught first and foremost how to avoid confrontation in the first place. Sure, there will be exceptions, every demographic has its asshats, but they will be a minority.

I don't really understand how you think that learning to be better at something will make you worse at it.

Clearly spoken by someone who actually knows very little about driving. Empty vessels make the most noise and all that

Lolz.

But this time, you're simply wrong I'm afraid.

Driver training - any training - doesn't give you the right to then go acting like a tool because you're "better" than everyone else. And good training will teach you this.

Ok I should clarify. I meant the surf-mat school of driver training ie 'I've done the police course now I can go as fast as I like'. Training drivers to be safe, aware and responsible is indeed extremely valuable as you say.

It's a shame hardly anyone does it 🙁

Thing is, and I'm just guessing, anyone who goes and gets advanced training was probably at the less likely end of causing an accident in the first place.

Ok I should clarify. I meant the surf-mat school of driver training ie 'I've done the police course now I can go as fast as I like'. Training drivers to be safe, aware and responsible is indeed extremely valuable as you say.

It's a shame hardly anyone does it

Right with you up until that last sentence.

DD > you're probably right. The ones who are already AWSUM! won't believe they need any training. I've posted pictures before now of what happened to the last one of those I encountered.

Ok I should clarify. I meant the surf-mat school of driver training ie 'I've done the police course now I can go as fast as I like'. Training drivers to be safe, aware and responsible is indeed extremely valuable as you say.

It's a shame hardly anyone does it

Mol, sorry for being quick to have a go but I thought you were just being dismissive of all driver training.

There's quite a few people who do it - the IAM for starters. I also did a course with [url= http://www.hpc.org.uk/ ]High Performance Club[/url] which was very insightful and a bit more focused for those that want to drive fast but safely than the AIM course. These are geared toward road rather than track driving.

I'm never going to say I don't break the speed limit - I do, often and intensionaly when the roads are quiet. It's just that if I'm going to be doing it then I wanted to do it with as much training and knowledge as I could get to make things far safer for all concerned.

Completely different attitude I think to a boy racer (and I used to be one) who just drives everywhere at max speed, but with very little talent or margin for error, pi**ing everyone else off in the progress.

The courses have taught me a lot but most of all that despite doing the courses, I still have so much more to learn.

Right with you up until that last sentence.

?

How many people do that kind of training?

molgrips - do you reckon my NIP for 57 in a 50 on a road safe at 70 makes me a boy racer? Was I going that fast because I'm a testosterone fuelled alpha male reckoning I can drive fast because I'm awsum?

I agree with most of your post rebel12 but I question the emphasis on talent. Surely the trick is to not put yourself in a situation where you need 'talent'?

I have no idea how hard I can corner in either of my cars - I can't see how I need to know?

molgrips - do you reckon my NIP for 57 in a 50 on a road safe at 70 makes me a boy racer? Was I going that fast because I'm a testosterone fuelled alpha male reckoning I can drive fast because I'm awsum?

I have no idea.

molgrips - Member

I have no idea how hard I can corner in either of my cars - I can't see how I need to know?

When you have done all you can to avoid evasive maneuvers but some unforeseeable turn of events means you might have to resort to them, it is very useful to already know how the car will behave at or beyond the limit.

I know how it performs under hard braking and swerving. Just not cornering. I also know how it corners and stops on snow, cos I've tried all those things so that I do know the limits.

However I can't imagine a scenario where knowing the cornering limits would be advantageous.

molgrips - Member

I know how it performs under hard braking and swerving. Just not cornering.

Swerving is cornering. 🙂

I have no idea.

But I thought all speeding was dangerous?

I agree with most of your post rebel12 but I question the emphasis on talent. Surely the trick is to not put yourself in a situation where you need 'talent'?

I have no idea how hard I can corner in either of my cars - I can't see how I need to know?

No you're right, most people will never get near the limits of their cars (and it's probably not a good idea to go too close to them) on a public road. But if you're going to be driving fast, in bad weather conditions, or driving a twitchy RWD car then it helps to know how your car handles on the limit - to recognise when you're close to it so you can slow down before it's too late. I didn't realise this as a teenager and lost the back end of my car several times on wet roundabouts, spinning full 360's, luckily with no damage to anything. If I'd have had more talent at the time (rather than blind bravery/stupidity) then I'd probably have been able to recognise that I was driving way too fast for the conditions or done something to correct the slide before it became a problem. Maybe talent was the wrong choice of word - knowledge and experience might be more appropriate.

But if you're going to be driving fast

Er yeah the whole point of this discussion is that you really ought not to be.

Maybe talent was the wrong choice of word - knowledge and experience might be more appropriate.

Spot on.

How many people do that kind of training?

Ah right - I misunderstood what you meant, apologies. Ignore that.

molgrips - Member

But if you're going to be driving fast

Er yeah the whole point of this discussion is that you really ought not to be.

Err, I know but like I've said I do often exceed the speed limit. I enjoy driving and enjoy driving quickly. I'm not talking about racing or acting like a dick, but making smooth and fast progress in a car I enjoy driving and when conditions allow with good observation plus consideration and respect for other road users.

Generally I'll drive to whatever is appropriate for the conditions rather that what the posted speed limit is. Sometimes that's way under the speed limit, sometimes quite a bit over.

I've tried driving more slowly but I'm afraid to be honest I really struggle not to drive quickly sometimes. So I though I may as well increase my skill base to make the margin of safety that bit better.

Good observation and applying some common sense to where I drive quickly is probably why I've still got a clean license (touch wood).

most people will never get near the limits of their cars (and it's probably not a good idea to go too close to them)

In modern cars, that's certainly true. If you're driving on the road in a manner that's exceeded the limits of ABS, ESP, WTF and so on, your problem isn't knowing the cars limits.

My first car was of 1977 vintage. Second 1985. Knowing the limits of those vehicles was important because there was a very real chance that you could exceed them without trying particularly hard. I taught myself how to handle skids on a rainy Toys 'R' Us car park late one night; at the time I was tooling about, but in hindsight it's served me well in terms of maintaining control and not panicking when things do go wrong.

Thinking about it, I'd go as far as to say that now, with a modern car, I've got so complacent (and so out of practice) that 40 year old me would probably make a fist out of a loss-of-control situation that 25 year old me wouldn't have blinked at. Maybe as well as IAM, I should look at booking a skidpan session.

I too enjoy 'brisk' driving, but it's way way within the limits of the car and to be honest now I have a Passat it's just too wide for me to feel comfortable on country roads. I like the road to flow, I don't like to push anything. It's all about relaxed progress.

When the road straightens out I stay at 60. There's just no need to go any faster, and the fun's gone without the corners.

Anyway - never mind present company. People cannot be trusted to make their own judgments about appropriate speed. Or stopping distance, or levels of attention...

Thing is, and I'm just guessing, anyone who goes and gets advanced training was probably at the less likely end of causing an accident in the first place.

i know a few people who've done the IAM thing, every one of then has done it to help/massage their insurance after picking up a few blemishes on their license...

(the course did seem to calm then down a bit as a side effect)

Fair comment ahwiles. As I said, I was only thinking aloud really.

molgrips - Member

Anyway - never mind present company. People cannot be trusted to make their own judgments about appropriate speed. Or stopping distance, or levels of attention

With the right education (I believe) they can.
Take away the need for people to think for themselves and they will, however, stop thinking for themselves.
That's ok if you can think for them, but unfortunately nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool, so I'd rather we strived towards the former.

Like so many things in life, education is the bottom line!

. But if you're going to be driving fast, in bad weather conditions, or driving a twitchy RWD car then it helps to know how your car handles on the limit - to recognise when you're close to it so you can slow down before it's too late.

Yeah, you sound like a really safe driver. I really hope you never drive anywhere near where my kids ride their bikes. How about, you don't drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down, or take it to the track?

Yeah, you sound like a really safe driver. I really hope you never drive anywhere near where my kids ride their bikes. How about, you don't drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down, or take it to the track?

No chance of driving near your kids I'm afraid - I try and avoid driving through council estates if possible 😉

Careful now.

edlong - Member

How about, you don't drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down

Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?

Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?

You exceed it, then don't do that again.

(-:

Yep. 🙂

Trouble is driving is 10% skill 90% attitude and its a generation thing coming from parents and grandparents.

"They have never driven before so they have no bad habits" absolute classic, sorry love but if you drive like a clown, your kid will as well no matter what they are taught when learning to drive.

I've done the IAM and found it really good but one thing I was told that stuck was Advanced Drivers have less accidents but when they do have one they do it proper........ Normally involves excess speed.

Yeah I loved doing the course, and I scared my mate after when I showed him how I'd been taught to drive by them, legally but by reading the road, it felt sooo much faster and smoother.

They don't condone speeding and I actually got pushed out of the way by someone a while ago with a IAM badge in his windscreen whilst I was overtaking in lane 3 he was doing 90+ and came bombing up behind so when I moved back into lane 2 i recognised him as one of the observers from the local IAM.

I happened to " bump " into the chairman of the local IAM when he was washing his car outside his house by taking a planned diversion on the bike and informed him of what had happened and he wasn't happy.......

Cougar - ...I taught myself how to handle skids on a rainy Toys 'R' Us car park late one night

I did exactly this with my first (and only) rear wheel drive car about five years back. It was a 3L Cossie-engined Granada and it scared the Hell out of me, especially as it was huge, heavy and hard to stop.

One other thing worth mentioning is that at the age of (almost) 40, I'm still learning how to drive safely and still do stoopid things.

Last month, going South, just before Kinross, with slushy snow all over the road and more coming down all the time, I lost control in a scary way.

I'd been on cruise control set at 44, which felt safe, and was still overtaking most other drivers. I have Winter tyres all round. I slowed behind an Audi which was doing about 30 and when he pulled back in, I stupidly pressed the CC button to get back up to speed. Very bad idea. The engine tried to make up the difference immediately and I lost the front wheels, then the back ones and fishtailed over both lanes for perhaps five of six seconds. Managed to get it back and was surprisingly unshaken but if there had been more traffic around it could have been nasty.

I now know not to use CC at all in wet / slippy conditions, after a wee bit of research.

Point being, there's always something new to learn and no matter how good we think we are, our brains still occasionally switch off. Well mine does.

Properly tail-happy car that, I'll bet. I had a Scorpio for a while which I think is the same basic car in all but shell. The back would step out for gits and shiggles, as my one and only foray into RWD it took a bit of getting used to.

No chance of driving near your kids I'm afraid - I try and avoid driving through council estates if possible

I'm sure that you realise that comment says nothing about me, but speaks volumes about you.

Cougar - Moderator
Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?
You exceed it, then don't do that again.

(-:

Really? I thought it was written on signs beside the road...

Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?

If you're driving sensibly, the limit on any modern car might as well be in a different galaxy. You don't need to worry about it unless you're racing. If you're driving anywhere near the limit of your car's capabilities on a public road then you're a danger to yourself and everyone else. Go to a track if you want to do this.

Really? I thought it was written on signs beside the road...

Ah, but the driving gods would have these removed and replaced with "You Da Man. Go For It. (But only if you've had further training.)"

TooTall - Member
I drop well below the limit for the first half then go over the limit for the rest

So, on average, despite your erratic and pointless behaviour, your time taken to cover the distance is the same as if you had obeyed the limit.

Nice one.

One change of speed is hardly erratiic and it's not pointless, sometimes you get folks try to keep up, without having put in the slow bit, o you can trick them into getting tagged.

[quote=Rebel12]But if you're going to be [b]driving fast, in bad weather conditions[/b], or driving a twitchy RWD car then it helps to know how your car handles on the limit

Here's an idea - [b]slow down to a safe speed for the road conditions[/b] - just a thought?

(Or don't they teach you that on your "advanced driving course" ?)

Here's an idea - slow down to a safe speed for the road conditions - just a thought?

There's no point. These people have convinced themselves that cars are a plaything and the public roads are their race track (they pay taxes don't you know!), and they've constructed an entire rationale based on warped logic to justify their actions. Personally I'd have more respect for them if they just came out and admitted that they don't give a sh*t for anyone else and that risking death and injury to others is a price worth paying for their 'fun'. Trouble is they won't admit that cos they still see themselves as 'responsible' road users and they crave acceptance by everyone else, hence the ridiculous justifications.

Personally I'd have more respect for them if they just came out and admitted that they don't give a sh*t for anyone else and that risking death and injury to others is a price worth paying for their 'fun'. Trouble is they won't admit that cos they still see themselves as 'responsible' road users and they crave acceptance by everyone else, hence the ridiculous justifications

Personally I'd have more respect for your opinion if you'd actually looked into taking some advanced driving lessons and tried to improve your road skills. Or are you one of these people who believe that the minimum standard is fine. I've passed my test, I never drive fast so by default I must be a safe driver. Not taking extra training pretty much sums you up a someone who couldn't care less about their standard of driving in my book.

If you have done some advanced training then I'm happy to take this back. Otherwise maybe for your own and all of our sakes - perhaps you ought to get some, or at least try some before trying to brand us as reckless hoons. I thought I was a good driver until I did a fast road course. That made me realise how much I could actually improve and how much I still had to learn. Heaven forbid you might find that you actually start to enjoy driving.

rebel12 - Member
Personally I'd have more respect for your opinion if you'd actually looked into taking some advanced driving lessons and tried to improve your road skills

Oh give over.

nobody has suggested that drivers who take extra training are loons.

(the people i know who've done IAM are now relatively calm and cautious)

most of the posters [u]are[/u] suggesting that people who talk about things like 'appropriate safe speeding' are loons.

which is a reasonable point. If sticking to the speed limit is boring, tough - build a bridge and get over it.

you [u]might[/u] be well skilled and safer than most, but driving quickly reinforces the public perception that speeding/driving like a loon is ok.

most of the posters are suggesting that people who talk about things like 'appropriate safe speeding' are loons.

Would you suggest that an advanced driver doing 90mph on a quiet motorway with good visibility, good weather a well maintained car that's capable of 150mph + is driving like a loon?

most of the posters are suggesting that people who talk about things like 'appropriate safe speeding' are loons.

Ah, so I'm a loon for doing 57 on a 50 limit DC?

no, i'd say he's breaking the speed limit. and that it's the thin end of a nasty wedge.

define: 'quiet'

when does 'quiet' become 'busy'?

i'd go on to suggest/guess that he wouldn't have passed the IAM test driving like that.

aracer - Member

Ah, so I'm a loon for doing 57 on a 50 limit DC?

loon is a strong word, i now regret paraphrasing it.

the sheffield parkway is a 50 limit DC, it's a nasty bit of road, with many short entry lanes, people driving over the limit cause a few hairy moments.

(sometimes, people trying to join get desperate and force their way out, if there's someone in the 'outside' lane doing 60, there can be nowhere for the 'inside' laners to go, so it's sharp braking all round)

it'll be 50 for a reason.

no, i'd say he's breaking the speed limit. and that it's the thin end of a nasty wedge.

Have you ever broken the speed limit Ahwiles?

of course i have, but i don't try and defend it as 'safe and appropriate'.

i'm much slower now than i used to be. Am i less dangerous? - of course it's hard to say but it's got to help surely?

If you're driving sensibly, the limit on any modern car might as well be in a different galaxy. You don't need to worry about it unless you're racing.

which is a reasonable point. If sticking to the speed limit is boring, tough - build a bridge and get over it.

Aye.

The problem with speed is that it's relative, and addictive. If you drive at 80mph on country roads, then when you end up at 55mph you feel very frustrated. But it's all in your mind. You really do not need to be 'pushing it' everywhere you go.

If you speed all the time then it'll become habit, and 80mph will become the norm instead of 60. Doesn't sound like much but you're carrying around over 75% more kinetic energy to have to deal with. Why? If there's a crash, whoever's fault it is, you're going to be in 75% more trouble, and for what? It's just blind habit, isn't it?

Just train yourself to chill out, enjoy the flow when it gets windy, enjoy the view when it's not, and enjoy the music when it's busy. You don't need speed to enjoy a drive.

It is good to understand the limits of your vehicle, just so you can avoid getting too close to them.

It's a point with some merit - but on a dry or wet road, I have never got any car to skid, even my MkII Polo, despite trying really quite hard on a couple of occasions (when I was a lot younger). So now I know that the limit is not close to anything I may choose to do, in terms of cornering. If it's icy or snowy, then it's different, and I do test out my cars in suitable car parks etc when I get the chance. I also test out brakes on empty roads.

the dual sheffield parkway is a 50 limit DC, it's a nasty bit of road, with short entry lanes, people driving over the limit cause a few hairy moments.

The 50 limit I'm referring to is perfectly safe at 70 (which is what the limit on it used to be). Does that help with your assessment of "appropriate safe speeding"?

ahwiles - Member

of course i have, but i don't try and defend it as 'safe and appropriate'.

I'm also not defending braking the limit. It's just there are places and situations where it is perfectly safe to do so.

aracer - Member

Does that help with your assessment of "appropriate safe speeding"?

i'm not claiming that there is such a thing, it's not my assessment to make.

we cannot let people decide their own speed limits.

that's anarchy.

rebel12 - Member

I'm also not defending braking the limit.

...

It's just there are places and situations where it is perfectly safe to do so.

see? - you are, aren't you?

v8ninety - Member
It is good to understand the limits of your vehicle, just so you can avoid getting too close to them.

How will knowing the limits of your vehicle help in your own example of wet diesel-strewn roundabout? Unless you have diesel super sense as well...

aracer - Member

The 50 limit I'm referring to is perfectly safe at 70 (which is what the limit on it used to be). Does that help with your assessment of "appropriate safe speeding"?

[img] [/img]

it'll be 50 for a reason.

Any suggestions, given we've established it's just as safe as the bit a few miles away which is 70 limit (I'd actually argue that bit is less safe)?

we cannot let people decide their own speed limits.

that's anarchy.

So all the people doing 50 in a 60 limit are anarchists? Have you never broken a speed limit, or are you also an anarchist? How about the twisty bit, is choosing the correct speed for that all by myself without the aid of speed limits also anarchy?

it's a limit, not a target.

Have you never broken a speed limit

of course i have (really try not to now though), i'm simply not attempting to defend it as 'safe'.

Yeah, but it seems choosing an appropriate speed by using your brain rather than blindly assuming the speed limits tell you the safe speed makes you an anarchist.

i'm simply not attempting to defend it as 'safe'.

Oh - I thought it was about anarchy, not safety. Are you telling me 57mph wasn't safe?

How about you ask the council [i]why[/i] they changed the speed limit from 70 to 50?

Maybe under the Freedom of Information Act (or whatever its called)?

There are many places where speed limits are in place to calm traffic, as opposed to "a dangerous road". The M4 going into London is an example of this.

How about you ask the council why they changed the speed limit from 70 to 50?

😆 - you're seriously expecting them to give a rational explanation?

Ok, it might not be the council, but whoever changes the speed limits... 🙄

aracer - Member

Are you telling me 57mph wasn't safe?

is it really that hard sticking to the limit?

(clue: it isn't)

question: how much time are you saving by driving at 57 instead of 50orless?

anyway, to try and respond to your question fairly:

maybe it is, maybe it isn't. you don't have to convince me, i'm not a policeman/judge. carry on about your buisness as you see fit.

Any suggestions, given we've established it's just as safe as the bit a few miles away which is 70 limit (I'd actually argue that bit is less safe)?

Have you tried finding out why the limit was reduced? This information is usually available.

ahwiles - Member

it's a limit, not a target.

Yes but often the speed limits set bear no relationship to the road conditions or the actual improvement in vehicle technology in the last 50 years since limits were introduced. I'd far rather (and believe it is far safer) to take road and traffic conditions into account when I choose what an appropriate speed is - not blindly drive around believing that so long as I stick to at or below the posted limit then that makes me a safe driver, as so many on here seem to think.

is it really that hard sticking to the limit?

That's not the point we're debating. Still waiting for you to explain why it's not safe just because there are signs with 50 on.

how much time are you saving by driving at 57 instead of 50orless?

A bit less than you save by driving at 70 rather than 50 in a 70 limit.

[quote=rebel12]Yes but often the speed limits set bear no relationship to the road conditions or the actual improvement in vehicle technology in the last 50 years since limits were introduced. I'd far rather (and believe it is far safer) to take road and traffic conditions into account when I choose what an appropriate speed is - not blindly drive around believing that so long as I stick to at or below the posted limit then that makes me a safe driver, as so many on here seem to think.

Oh dear, oh dear.... so by that logic, by going [b]faster[/b] than the speed limit, you're actually a safer driver? Seriously?

You do have the option to choose the appropriate speed - [b]up to[/b] the speed limit in force.

Nobody's forcing you to drive/ride around [b]exactly on[/b] the speed limit all the time....

aracer - Member

Still waiting for you to explain why it's not safe just because there are signs with 50 on.

it's only been a couple of minutes! 🙂

from page9 (i had a think, and then edited/blathered a bit):

ahwiles - Member

anyway, to try and respond to your question fairly:

maybe it is, maybe it isn't. you don't have to convince me, i'm not a policeman/judge. Carry on about your buisness as you see fit.

2000 people are killed every year by motor vehicles, the [u]least [/u] we can do is question our national driving behaviour, which clearly sucks. Speeding is part of that.