[Closed] Average speed cameras work. Are they even on ?

We shouldn't all have to drive to the lowest common denominator.

The answer to this is blatantly obvious:

Everyone thinks they are a great driver, even if they're not. So you can't trust people to make the right call.

There's also a strong argument for everyone driving at similar speeds. That includes people going too slow as well as too fast.

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[quote=Rebel12]So I think my standard of driving is way above average

And here lies the problem - everyone [b]thinks[/b] they have 1337 skillz behind the wheel.

It may *look* like safe overtaking opportunity for you in a 40mph limit, but what about the 'speeder' who's doing 60mph+ in the other direction (towards you) ?

Everyone thinks they are a great driver, even if they're not. So you can't trust people to make the right call.

So the solution is to educate people, not to treat them all like imbeciles just because some of them are.

"i know someone who was killed by a toaster"

This comment intrigued me.

Now he's brown bread.

It may *look* like safe overtaking opportunity for you in a 40mph limit, but what about the 'speeder' who's doing 60mph+ in the other direction (towards you) ?

Funnily on some of our rides we have commented on that...

"what happens when we meet a group like ours coming the opposite way"

I had a close one with a BMW and wiped out it's mirror with my shoulder.... it was a close on that i can tell you.

I've done lots of extra training since passing my test. AIM, police type fast road training, observational training and a couple of track based handling sessions. So I think my standard of driving is way above average. Sure I still make the odd mistake but who doesn't. The extra training, awareness of hazards combined with a high performance car with good handling and good brakes means that often I can drive above the posted limits completely safely whilst at the same time taking accounts if any harass that might be present.

So you're an amazingly good driver in a super duper car in your opinion.

Often I will get flashed when passing a slower driver even though an overtake is safe an legal.

But then in the opinion of loads of people who have actually seen you driving, you are clearly a bad enough driver that they feel the need to warn you by flashing their lights. Clearly their warnings have just reinforced your belief that you are a super driver, but seriously, if you're scaring people all the time, then you're being at best discourteous, and quite likely dangerous, even if only by the trail of surprised and shocked people hitting their brakes behind you as you zoom past them into a narrow gap.

And here lies the problem - everyone thinks they have 1337 skillz behind the wheel.

Yep. According to the instructors on the Speed Awareness course I did a while back, the vast majority of people think they're "above average" drivers.

However, that being the case doesn't mean you can conclude that all of them aren't. Ie, most people overestimate their ability, that doesn't necessarily make them bad drivers.

The police are after me. They pulled me over as Im so gorgeous they want to put me under arrest.

Bugger. I've always been convinced they were a load of sh*te and never actually working but I just read the first 5 replies from the front page of this thread and I now know I'm wrong! I always obey those zones but could never fathom why some people belted through them but I'd never heard of anyone being caught.

Every day is a school day!

Cougar - I wonder what percentage of those on "speed awareness courses" have been in accidents (as a result of their driving) where they have been speeding?

Perhaps it's the *statistically safer* drivers who get caught speeding?

Poop! Poop!

Whether a Ford or a Ferrari,
Whatever I can get to carry me near or far,
Just give me any car,
I love to ride the Tar,
An old Excalibar,
Yes, any motor car.

And I'll be happy - ho-ho! Messing around in cars!

But then in the opinion of loads of people who have actually seen you driving, you are clearly a bad enough driver that they feel the need to warn you by flashing their lights

Sorry, but that's not necessarily true either. The poster is a bad driver [i]in their opinion.[/i] A lot of people just don't like being overtaken.

You can overtake someone who's doing half the speed limit, on a straight road with perfect visibility for miles, giving them plenty of space before during and after the manoeuvre, and still get flashed at. I've had it happen.

But why, all restricting people does is create frustration and increased stress and tension on the roads.

A speed limit doesn't cause me any stress or tension whatsoever. Driving slower also reduces traffic congestion, paradoxically making journeys quicker.

It's funny how some drivers [i]assume[/i] you're going to overtake them, just because of the car you drive.

Equally, I find it amusing when drivers sit on your tail, knowing they have to wait for *you* to overtake the car ahead before they can. And you know they are eager to hurry up...

If I'm not in a rush, I'll happily it behind a lorry doing 40mph....

Cougar - I wonder what percentage of those on "speed awareness courses" have been in accidents (as a result of their driving) where they have been speeding?

Perhaps it's the *statistically safer* drivers who get caught speeding?

Interesting question.

I used to drive everywhere like my head was on fire when I was younger, with a string of SP30s to show for it. These days I'm a lot more respectful of the limits, and have a clean licence. (The incident resulting in the course I took was a road that drops from 50 to 40 to 30, downhill; they clocked me doing 30-something (about 36 IIRC) right after the sign where it drops to 30).

I've had a handful of accidents over the years, some my fault and some not, but never at speed; almost certainly all under 20mph. Most recently, I was taken roughly from behind by a large Polish gentleman who failed to stop in time when traffic lights changed. I was stationary at the time so, speed might have been a contributory factor for him, but it wasn't for me.

I was taken roughly from behind by a large Polish gentleman

*s*****

You put that in purposely you naughty mod.

I find it amusing when drivers sit on your tail, knowing they have to wait for *you* to overtake the car ahead before they can. And you know they are eager to hurry up...

If I'm not in a rush, I'll happily it behind a lorry doing 40mph...

In that situation, I'd increase my braking distance so that if someone wants to overtake and I don't, they've got space to hop between.

but it wasn't for me.

If he'd been driving waaaaayyyyy too fast, it may well have been a very big factor for you.

You put that in purposely

I originally typed "I've had a handful of bumps" but went back and corrected it.

If you are getting frustrated driving at the speed limit, that is entirely your problem, and something YOU need to work at. If you're taking a while to get served at the bar, do you start shouting and barging people out of the way? If your train is not as fast as you'd like, are you going to charge into the cab and hit the accelerator?

If you feel frustration, then you need to grow up and learn some patience.

As for your own amazing skills - there are other people on the road too. Many of whom are not good drivers. You need to drive defensively, as I'm sure you ride when on your pushbike.

If he'd been driving waaaaayyyyy too fast, it may well have been a very big factor for you.

Sure. But that wasn't the question I was answering. That's what we in these discussions like to refer to as "something else."

I used to drive everywhere like my head was on fire when I was younger, with a string of SP30s to show for it.

I used to do this and I used to do it sideways. A few STW'ers swore never to get in a car with me again. I've calmed down now though. The thing is I NEVER got a speeding ticket.

I might have driven swiftly etc but I never lost my power of visual awareness.

Sure. But that wasn't the question I was answering. That's what we in these discussions like to refer to as "something else."

Until we have your Utopian world of negligible accident figures because of the awesome level of skills of drivers, folk have to be limited so that when they take you roughly from behind, you risk a slightly scratched rear end rather than one that needs mechanical repair.

Rebel12 » So I think my standard of driving is way above average

And here lies the problem - everyone thinks they have 1337 skillz behind the wheel.

Yes but the courses I've done have me a better driver, in much the same way as taking piano lessons will make you a better player of the piano. It's not rocket science you know. The courses have also made me a more considerate and observant driver - therefore safer whether traveling above or below the limit. I suggest you try some additional training yourself before tarring everyone who drives fast with the same brush.

It may *look* like safe overtaking opportunity for you in a 40mph limit, but what about the 'speeder' who's doing 60mph+ in the other direction (towards you) ?

Yes but I'd never get into that situation because I would have already made allowances for someone (currently unseen) coming towards me over the limit in the opposite direction before starting any overtake manouvere. Similarly if I'd never go round a blind bend fast enough not to be able to stop in half of the distance visible because there might be a late overtaker still on the wrong side of the road just around the corner.

This is where driving a performance car helps - It gives you just that extra margin for error or safety factor to stop/react should you need it.

I might have driven swiftly etc but I never lost my power of visual awareness.

I take your point, and (kill me now) I agree with it. I'd argue these days that if you get caught speeding, your crime isn't speeding, it's speeding whilst not paying sufficient attention. The mobile units aren't generally hard to see and, to my chagrin, I have no idea where the [s]speed trap[/s] safety camera was that caught me that day.

However, back in The Day, a) I was a lot younger and less experienced so less likely to spot a camera, and b) speed cameras weren't the high visibility things they are now. Police used to do their damndest to hide out of sight so they could catch you. It was a lot easier to get caught out.

deadlydarcy - Member

Until we have your Utopian world of negligible accident figures because of the awesome level of skills of drivers, folk have to be limited so that when they take you roughly from behind, you risk a slightly scratched rear end rather than one that needs mechanical repair.

I've got a mate who works for the HSE.
I was having an interesting chat with him about the effect of replacing old hard surfaces in playgrounds with that soft rubber stuff you now get.
Care to guess what the outcome is?

Mr rebel12, I salute your intransigence (and your superior driving skills) in the face of logic and common sense. You are the very epitomy of someone who has constructed an entirely new form of thinking to justify their own unjustifiable actions. One day hopefully you'll look back on this discussion and cringe with embarrassment at the arrogance of it all.

Care to guess what the outcome is?

Is it a "risk compensation" thing, i.e. no difference? A bit like using antiskid surfaces so people can drive/ride around corners faster?

I was having an interesting chat with him about the effect of replacing old hard surfaces in playgrounds with that soft rubber stuff you now get.

Although this bit could suggest that there has been a significant reduction in the number of tyres going to land fill and being flytipped? Not sure the HSE look into that side of things though...

So you're saying my three year-old pays attention to the floor surface before attempting some climbing?

Who me? Nope, I was just asking a question. I didn't speak to a friend at the HSE, I don't have any friends at the HSE.

Anyway, you're in a better position to answer that than me. Does he/she? Do you by proxy allow her/him to do more "dangerous" stuff than otherwise? Would your sample of one, represent the entire population? Lots of questions... 🙂

molgrips - Member

So you're saying my three year-old pays attention to the floor surface before attempting some climbing?

Why would I be commenting on a child I didn't know existed? 😕

Let me rephrase the question.

Do you think all kids take greater risks just because the floor is now soft? Bearing in mind little kids use the playgrounds, this seems very unlikely indeed.

Care to guess what the outcome is?

Care to just tell us? Some supporting links would be useful too.

Mr rebel12, I salute your intransigence (and your superior driving skills) in the face of logic and common sense. You are the very epitomy of someone who has constructed an entirely new form of thinking to justify their own unjustifiable actions. One day hopefully you'll look back on this discussion and cringe with embarrassment at the arrogance of it all.

Almost can't be bothered to respond to this but against my better judgement I'm going to. It's ironic that you yourself can't see someone elses point of view.

Driver training makes better drivers - simple. I can't see why this would grate with you, unless you honestly believe that just because you're not a confident driver yourself then everyone else should drive to your level too.

Additional driver training is available to everyone. Maybe if you took some then you might unlock a world of possibility and perhaps also unlock that closed mind of yours?

Driver training may make better drivers, but the unintended consequence also kicks in when driver training makes people think that they are driving gods and needn't bother about speed limits since they are now so well trained.

Do you drive a 335d rebel12?

HoratioHufnagel - Member

Do you drive a 335d rebel12?

No - why?

edlong - Member

Driver training may make better drivers, but the unintended consequence also kicks in when driver training makes people think that they are driving gods and needn't bother about speed limits since they are now so well trained.

Have you done any extra driver training Edlong?

Many many hours of riding motorbikes on racetracks mean that IMO my 'limits' are different to a bloke who drives to the shops on a wet Wednesday afternoon once a week.

I expect you don't realise it, but none of it is about you. It is about other road users. Other road users don't calculate for a biker doing a ton-up in their driving. Your actions screw with them, not with you.

The first time I met someone facing an amputation through their own actions was a lad who worked for me and raced bikes. Big track spill through overestimating his own ability and paralysed an arm. He thought he was pretty handy on his bike too.

The outcome is an increase in more serious injuries.
I don't have any links to his data, in fact I haven't seen the figures myself, but I have no reason to question him.
It was of interest to us both as we work (in my case worked) with explosives so have a fair amount of experience in dealing with potentially dangerous circumstances and dealing with the risks involved.

This post is going to be long enough as it is so I will however cut to the chase.
Prevention is better than cure.
By concentrating on mitigating the effects of an outcome, we fail to address and eliminate the root cause of that outcome.
An accident at 40mph is always going to be more favourable than the same accident at 60mph, I'm sure we're all agreed, but we should be aiming for eliminating the accident entirely, not just mitigating the outcome.
My greatest fear is that we have already gone too far down the road of mitigation (pardon the pun) to be able to address elimination.
The "speed kills" mantra has been so successful in warning people of the dangers of speed that those people now equate driving within the speed limit with safe driving.
I've overheard conversations in the pub where someone has been involved in an accident (which was their fault) but they have justified their position by exclaiming that they weren't speeding, and then gone on to accuse the other party of speeding (well, they must have been to "cause" the accident).
Prevention is always better than cure, and education is the key to prevention.
If someone asks what's the best way to spend their money to improve their cycling on this forum, the answer won't be "buy a dropper post" it will be "go and see Jedi".
There seem to be a lot of people here who are quite vehement about their desire for others to drive more safely, but how many of those have sought additional training once they've swapped their pink licence for a green one?

And the floor is yours... 🙂

Driver training may make better drivers, but the unintended consequence also kicks in when driver training makes people think that they are driving gods and needn't bother about speed limits since they are now so well trained.

After your first advanced ride/drive, which is done without advice or input, you get a list of the things you must do better (or at all!).

If you're inclined to delusions of driving godhood, it will be a long list.

If your delusion is very strong, you'll walk away and say they can't handle your talent - no harm or good is done. Otherwise, you will have just had a very humbling experience.

rebel12 - Member

Additional driver training is available to everyone.

And it's cheap too.
[url= http://www.iam.org.uk/iam-groups/iam-groups-directory/search ]Institite of Advanced Motorists[/url]

Go on, give it a click. Chances are you'll be able to find a group close to you and more often than not you'll be able to go out with an observer for no greater cost than your petrol for an initial assessment of your driving.

Driver training makes better drivers - simple. I can't see why this would grate with you, unless you honestly believe that just because you're not a confident driver yourself then everyone else should drive to your level too.

I completely agree. But you're making a lot of assumptions about my driving. You see, like you, I am also a driving god (aren't we all?). In fact I'm pretty sure I could get round a track faster than you. In fact I'm certain of it. However this willy waving is completely besides the point.

If you had asked the instructor on your advanced driving course if your new skills now allow you to drive faster than everyone else on public roads, what would have been his answer? I'm pretty sure I know what he/she would have replied.

The "speed kills" mantra has been so successful in warning people of the dangers of speed that those people now equate driving within the speed limit with safe driving.

Couldn't agree more. Read a statistic somewhere that excess speed was only a factor in around 7% of all accidents. Yet there seems many on here who treat speed as the holy grail when it comes to road safety. No wonder when the media, reliance on speed cameras to police the roads and 'Speed Kills' campaign seems to have brainwashed those who have little interest in driving besides getting from A to B.

In reality though I'm pretty sure it's in-attention and poor driver skill/judgement that causes the vast majority of all accidents. Of course that's a very difficult thing to measure so it's far easier to demonize something that can be defined and then conveniently forget about the rest.

People have a lot to learn.

I still think if you go into a garage to buy certain cars it should result in the instantaneous revocation of your license on the grounds that you must actually not like driving.

You probably think a Mondeo is boring. To me a car is mostly a method of transport (to go and do fun things) rather than something fun. Not that I don't enjoy driving, but it's not sufficiently important to me to have fun on the public roads to want to buy a car you'd approve of. Of course you do get a lot of poor drivers driving certain types of car (though I think you've missed your chance trying to ban them when they buy their car - you can't even buy a Rover any more), however you'll also find that they're not the people for whom speed limits on open roads are at all relevant. What's more, despite your perceptions, such people are not only involved in less accidents than those driving cars they've bought because they "like driving", they even cause less of them.

edlong - Member

Driver training may make better drivers, but the unintended consequence also kicks in when driver training makes people think that they are driving gods and needn't bother about speed limits since they are now so well trained.

As rebel12 is probably alluding to with his question, you've almost certainly got the wrong end of the stick with regards to driver training.
The vast majority of advanced driving is all about attitude and mentality, not how you can make your car go faster round a particular corner.
I seriously recommend you look into it. 🙂

So the roads would be safer without lessons or a test at all?

A better analogy might be, the roads may be safer if we replaced the driver's airbag with a large steel spike in the middle of the wheel.

dazh - Member

If you had asked the instructor on your advanced driving course if your new skills now allow you to drive faster than everyone else on public roads, what would have been his answer? I'm pretty sure I know what he/she would have replied.

I'm sure the instructor would have replied that his new skills should enable him to choose an appropriate speed for the road he's driving on.
😉

[img] [/img]

The vast majority of advanced driving is all about attitude and mentality, not how you can make your car go faster round a particular corner.

That's round in circles at least once, so FTFAGOS-ICBA.

dazh - Member

Driver training makes better drivers - simple. I can't see why this would grate with you, unless you honestly believe that just because you're not a confident driver yourself then everyone else should drive to your level too.

I completely agree. But you're making a lot of assumptions about my driving. You see, like you, I am also a driving god (aren't we all?). In fact I'm pretty sure I could get round a track faster than you. In fact I'm certain of it. However this willy waving is completely besides the point.

If you had asked the instructor on your advanced driving course if your new skills now allow you to drive faster than everyone else on public roads, what would have been his answer? I'm pretty sure I know what he/she would have replied.

Are you Jenson Button by any chance?

Where did I claim to be a 'driving god'? If anything the AIM course highlighted areas where I needed to up my game - in particular observation and reading the road ahead.

AIM don't condone or promote driving above the speed limit.

I'd argue these days that if you get caught speeding, your crime isn't speeding, it's speeding whilst not paying sufficient attention. The mobile units aren't generally hard to see and, to my chagrin, I have no idea where the speed trap safety camera was that caught me that day.

On that point we disagree. I know where the safety (sic) camera was on both occasions I've been caught. Not only that I also know exactly where I was when they nabbed me. On the first occasion they were in a layby just over the brow of the hill and nabbed me as I came into sight (and hence as they came into sight for me) - I know this as I braked the instant the van came into view and the speed they gave was what I was doing before braking. On the second, a similar situation but they were round a bend - though in a way that was even more irritating as I got nabbed for 57 in a 50 on a DC which is perfectly safe at 70 at that location. I'd love for one of the "always obey the speed limit" advocates to explain to me why my driving there was more dangerous than doing 70 on the same road a few miles away at a point where that is perfectly legal.

I still wonder what it would have been like if I'd chosen to go on a "speed awareness" course after the latter - I suspect I'd have had to force myself to keep quiet, and might have struggled if asked to admit that my driving was dangerous.

Sorry meant IAM, not AIM. Sodding auto-correct.

I still wonder what it would have been like if I'd chosen to go on a "speed awareness" course after the latter - I suspect I'd have had to force myself to keep quiet, and might have struggled if asked to admit that my driving was dangerous.

Don't know the location but in all likleyhood not dangerous - just not legal. Some speed limits I would argue are innapropriately low. Often they are lowered by the local Council due to a serious accident at that location, whether that accident was caused be excess speed or not.

Similarly some speed limits are too high (e.g. NSL on a narrow, twisting country lane) or 30 past a school entrance.

Similarly some speed limits are too high

It's a limit, not a target. I've not yet got nabbed for driving below the speed limit where I feel it is appropriate.

It's a limit, not a target.

This may be true, but we've already established that we can't trust some people to make sensible decisions.

blimey, it's come over all "=AWESOME!!" hasn't it ?

aracer - Member

It's a limit, not a target.

It is a target, to achieve if safe to do so.
You would fail your driving test if you chose to drive under the speed limit when it was safe to do the limit.

The whole point of driving is to get from A to B quickly. If it wasn't then we would all still be walking everywhere.
Of course, the aim is to not only get there quickly, but safely.

rebel12, you're still completely missing the point. The fact that you can drive more safely at speed than the next person is completely irrelevant. You simply can't have one set of drivers driving to completely different rules than others. The speed limits are there not just to improve safety through limiting the severity of crashes, but also to provide a standard environment where all road users know what to expect.

I have an idea though. What about allowing people like yourself to opt out of speeding laws in exchange for an automatic 10 year prison sentence if you're involved in a crash? Somehow I don't think you'd go for that though.

The whole point of driving is to get from A to B quickly. If it wasn't then we would all still be walking everywhere.

Another superb example of warped logic to justify driving fast. Keep 'em coming!

(...waiting for the 'if we spend all our time looking at the speedometer it's more dangerous' excuse)

dazh - Member

Another superb example of warped logic to justify driving fast. Keep 'em coming!

Yet you fail to offer an alternative.
Come on then, what is your alternative? Spit it out boy.

dazh - Member
waiting for the 'if we spend all our time looking at the speedometer it's more dangerous' excuse

It only takes a fraction of a second to glance at the speedometer, and doing so should not make driving dangerous.
Does taking your eyes off the road make driving more or less safe though?
Let's have an actual answer.

dazh - Member
You simply can't have one set of drivers driving to completely different rules than others.

It may have escaped you but we already have that situation (using your definition of completely different rules meaning different allowed speeds). 💡

dazh - Member

rebel12, you're still completely missing the point. The fact that you can drive more safely at speed than the next person is completely irrelevant. You simply can't have one set of drivers driving to completely different rules than others. The speed limits are there not just to improve safety through limiting the severity of crashes, but also to provide a standard environment where all road users know what to expect.

I have an idea though. What about allowing people like yourself to opt out of speeding laws in exchange for an automatic 10 year prison sentence if you're involved in a crash? Somehow I don't think you'd go for that though.

But people do already drive to a different set of rules. Some drive far too slow to be safe, others too fast for the conditions? Not sure what you're trying to get at here? All I'm saying is that if you're going to drive faster than the posted limit then extra training will make you a far safer driver. Any many limits are already artificially low - e.g. the 70mph limit of a motorway when traffic is light. That was set in the mid 60's when cars were positively death traps compared to today's vehicles.

They are thinking of upping the limit to 80mph on motorways soon. Will that then make it suddenly safe in your eyes just because it's now legal?

Oh and why not have different rules whilst we're at it. Perhaps for example if you'd completed an Advanced Driving course and retests every 5 years then you might get a special [b]'Red Numberplate'[/b] which means that you can drive at a faster limit than people who haven't passed the course. Could make sense and it might improve the uptake of further driver training making the roads safer for all.

Driver training makes better drivers - simple. I can't see why this would grate with you, unless you honestly believe that just because you're not a confident driver yourself then everyone else should drive to your level too.

Yeah but usually when there's accidents, TWO cars are involved. Not speeding is defensive driving.

The speed limits are there not just to improve safety through limiting the severity of crashes, but also to provide a standard environment where all road users know what to expect.

Absolutely bang on.

Nipping out for a bit, so take your time Daz. 😉

Come on then, what is your alternative? Spit it out boy.

Err, just relax and drive a bit slower? If you have to be somewhere at a certain time, leave a bit earlier (only a bit, cos we all know driving fast doesn't save you much time anyway)?

dazh - Member

Come on then, what is your alternative? Spit it out boy.

Err, just relax and drive a bit slower? If you have to be somewhere at a certain time, leave a bit earlier (only a bit, cos we all know driving fast doesn't save you much time anyway)?

Long distance it can save quite a bit of time and it can also be good fun and safe on the right road, helping keep concentration levels high and avoiding daydreaming.

Don't understand some of the posts on here - if you want to dawdle please go ahead, but don't then whinge when people who can happily go faster overtake you in a safe and considerate manor.

Oh and why not have different rules whilst we're at it. Perhaps for example if you'd completed an Advanced Driving course and retests every 5 years then you might get a special 'Red Numberplate' which means that you can drive at a faster limit than people who haven't passed the course. Could make sense and it might improve the uptake of further driver training making the roads safer for all.

Some problems I foresee with this:

1. See above, limits and other road laws enforce a standard, predictable environment which prevents accidents, as well as mitigating their severity. Take away the predictability, and you have more accidents, probably at higher speeds, which means many more deaths and ruined lives.
2. How much faster? Upping the limits to 80 or 90 make almost no discernible difference to journey times for an average journey, so why bother?
3. Giving a red number plate to 'advanced drivers' would be like waving a start flag to your average petrolhead and boy racer, actively encouraging them to drive faster, because they have a bit of paper to prove they're better.

Also I haven't even bothered mentioning a lot of the other reasons against driving faster which haven't been mentioned such as increased carbon emissions, fuel prices, noise, particulate pollution etc

Right, off home now. On the train, which is much faster than driving. Normally I'd be on my bike, which unsurprisingly is also much faster to get to work and back.

That's the thing, isn't it. There's "overtaking in a safe manner" and there's "driving like an aggressive tool."

Giving a red number plate to 'advanced drivers' would be like waving a start flag to your average petrolhead and boy racer, actively encouraging them to drive faster, because they have a bit of paper to prove they're better.

But they'll [i]be[/i] better. If a boy racer is going to, uh, boy race, I'd rather they had a bit of training under their belt.

Long distance it can save quite a bit of time

Not that much time. The UK is quite small.

and it can also be good fun and safe on the right road

Ah! At last you mentioned the 'fun' part. So how would you separate the 'safe' people having fun from the idiot boy racers? And do you really think the public roads are the correct place for this type of fun?

dazh - Member
Ah! At last you mentioned the 'fun' part. So how would you separate the 'safe' people having fun from the idiot boy racers? And do you really think the public roads are the correct place for this type of fun?

God you're a killjoy - Yes [b]FUN[/b], what's wrong with that? Having fun driving means that I enjoy learning more about it, learning more about car control, general driving awareness, what's safe and what's not etc.

Idiots are easy to spot - but unfortunately we need more actual traffic police on the road to do that, not yellow speed camera boxes that can't tell a good driver from a bad driver.

There's plenty of people on the who don't ever learn anything after passing their test. The have never explored the limits of a car etc. Unfortunately although they may never exceed the speed limit these people tend to come unstuck in a tricky situation (when driving in snow for example). They lack the skills and tend to panic when something unexpected happens.

It can save time.... as by it's very definition, you're travelling at a faster rate (miles PER hour).

Popping to the shops might save you 1 minute. Driving 300 miles might save you an hour or more.

Obviously depending on the road conditions, traffic, weather, roadworks, etc.

[quote=rebel12]Idiots are easy to spot

Yup, usually doing 150mph on their sport bikes, under the illusion they are Gods.... 😉

rebel12 » Idiots are easy to spot

Yup, usually doing 150mph on their sport bikes, under the illusion they are Gods....

Inclined to generally agree with that - then again on an empty motorway with good visibility, the right training and a bike/car that's more than capable then the risk could be a lot less than you think. Illegal - certainly, Dangerous - not necessarily.

Oh and why not have different rules whilst we're at it. Perhaps for example if you'd completed an Advanced Driving course and retests every 5 years then you might get a special 'Red Numberplate' which means that you can drive at a faster limit than people who haven't passed the course. Could make sense and it might improve the uptake of further driver training making the roads safer for all.

possibly, the worst idea i've ever heard.

rebel12 - Member
Some drive far too slow to be safe,

Ah all those famous fatal slow speed head on collisions we're always hearing about.

rebel12 - Member
God you're a killjoy - Yes FUN, what's wrong with that? Having fun driving means that I enjoy learning more about it, learning more about car control, general driving awareness, what's safe and what's not etc.

Keep it on the track. What's wrong with it is other people are using the roads and no matter how great you think you are it only takes one mistake. Which if you're having fun aka driving like a selfish dick is going to be worse than if you were driving the speed limit.

Man-child racers are just as bad as boy-racers.

The one thing that I will leave you with. Never ever panic. I always stay calm. **** courses. There are people out there with Phd's who arent working. Relax, lose arms, smooth throttle always.