[Closed] Average speed cameras work. Are they even on ?

This is a forum which regularly sees huge swathes of cyclists insist that jumping a red light, when done with care, is safe. I'd like to see the venn diagram of those who defend "RLJ"-ing and those who condemn speeding.

This^^^^^^

2,000 dead people every year on the roads.
Over 5 people every single day...
Don't see the point of joining them or contributing to it by speeding...

I'd be interested in how many of those deaths were actually caused by exceeding the speed limit, rather than an inattentive/careless driver/pedestrian/cyclist?

In the 23 years I've been driving, every accident that has involved someone I know or an accident I have heard of, only one has been directly caused by the spped the person was doing. He was going too fast and couldn't stop when something pulled out infront of him. So he was going too fast for the circumstances. [u]BUT he was under the speed limit[/u]. It was a national speed limit - it has since been lowered to a 40.

Every other one has been caused by one of the parties involved not paying full attention to the job of driving.

EGO?

EVO would do for anyone with one of those. 🙂

Advanced driving is not that heroic really, it's not about "rarr I'm on the limit", it's about being in the right place, taking in all the information, and making a good plan.

Spot on.

But the consequences of getting it wrong are so vastly different, If my souffle fails to rise or my photograph is out of focus it doesnt kill or injure somebody and change other people's lives forever because of my misplaced sell belief in my own skills.

How do you know hes not as good as he says he is?...

That was kind of my point really. He's coming over as a know it all because someone was killed/injured etc...

Damn, i know someone who was killed by a toaster, doesn't mean i'm never using a toaster again. People die, people get hurt, it happens.

Does that mean just because i/we ride motorbikes we should give them up ? How about bicycles, plenty of people die doing that too.

My point is... just because his perception is that 'people were driving beyond their limits' doesnt necessarily mean that just because someone is going quickly they're beyond their limits. Many many hours of riding motorbikes on racetracks mean that IMO my 'limits' are different to a bloke who drives to the shops on a wet Wednesday afternoon once a week.

I think we are on the same page.

michaelbowden >>

Speed "limit" does not mean "drive at that speed all the time".

So, he may have not been "speeding" per se (from a legal perspective), but he was "going too fast for that section of road in those conditions"

I like it when people set conditions on when I can criticise their selfish behaviour, really shows what a robust defence they have.

So much crappy logic on this thread!

Using a mobile is a big distraction, whereas when I'm driving fast my full attention is on the road.

Uh.. yes.. but if you drive fast habitually, then on that occasion when you do get distracted, or someone pulls out unexpectedly, or something else happens, you're already going fast which makes things worse.

If you think speeding's as safe as not speeding, then you are either stupid or lying to yourself.

Wilfully speeding is deliberately making the situation more dangerous (more kinetic energy, smaller margins for error) because you think you can handle it. It's arrogance.

Imagine you're bombing along at 80mph on a country road, it's fine, there's not much traffic, it's not that windy. There's a few cars coming the other way. Unknown to you, one of them's a dozy pillock who's not concentrating, then they get a phone call. They stray across the white line. Now, if you're going 85 you've got far less time to react and slow down. And if you do hit, you've got far more energy so are much more likely to kill yourself and/or the other driver.

Very simple physics. Keep it in your ****ing trousers for all our sakes.

Many many hours of riding motorbikes on racetracks mean that IMO my 'limits' are different to a bloke who drives to the shops on a wet Wednesday afternoon once a week.

You mean your concept of speed is different. However that doesn't change the physics. You're just less worried about it cos you're used to it. Familiarity does in fact breed contempt.

I'd question how useful safe track skills are on the roads however, because tracks don't tend to have many blind corners or people coming the other way etc.

I'd be interested in how many of those deaths were actually caused by exceeding the speed limit

You're still not getting it. WHATEVER THE ACCIDENT, be it inattentive cyclist or mobile phone or whatever, the CONSEQUENCES ARE WORSE IF YOU ARE SPEEDING. Also, it's harder for everyone to avoid. Either you or the other party.

Rob Hilton - Member
Anyone know how 2 cameras can cover 3 lanes

molgrips - Member
Very simple physics. Keep it in your **** trousers for all our sakes.

Or pay for a track day you selfish twunts.

Speed "limit" does not mean "drive at that speed all the time".

So, he may have not been "speeding" per se (from a legal perspective), but he was "going too fast for that section of road in those conditions"

100% correct, good driving is about assesing the road and the conditions. Which is why there are times it is not safe to drive at the speed limit and times when it is safe to drive over the speed limit.

[u]JUST becuse you exceed the speed limit[/u] on a given stretch of road does not inherently make you dangerous. Yes if you get caught you need to accept it and take the consiquences

How do you know hes not as good as he says he is?...

Who's as good as who says they are? No idea who you are referring to, I'm referring to the consequences of speeding and driving in a manner that causes collisions
(I don't use the word accident as that suggests something unpreventable, you don't accidentally lose control because the corner is tighter than you thought, you just failed to drive appropriately for the road conditions)

michaelbowden - Member
JUST becuse you exceed the speed limit on a given stretch of road does not inherently make you dangerous. Yes if you get caught you need to accept it and take the consiquences

But it is more dangerous than if you were driving slower.

100% correct, good driving is about assesing the road and the conditions

Much of it is un-assessable though. You could be a driving god, you can't however see what's coming around the next corner or predict what idiot drivers will do next.

I've got nothing against ASC at roadworks or for that matter at dangerous sections of road.

Oh and drive to the speedo not the satnav. Traffic flows better if everyone goes at the SAME speed not some people doing 10% more than others.

This one needs some explanation though. IMHO the main thing that would improve traffic flow on UK roads is a bit of lane discipline. There seems to be a dedicated section of motorist determined to reduce all the three lane motorways to tow lanes by totally ignoring the empty lane on their left.

Stopping people doing this would have a better effect on traffic flows then people travelling at 70mph on their sat nav

Once we've got rid of those we can go after the tailgaters too

Lifer - Member

michaelbowden - Member
JUST becuse you exceed the speed limit on a given stretch of road does not inherently make you dangerous. Yes if you get caught you need to accept it and take the consiquences

But it is more dangerous than if you were driving slower.

Absolutely. There's very little in life that doesn't involve you making a risk assesment! 🙂

molgrips - Member

100% correct, good driving is about assesing the road and the conditions

Much of it is un-assessable though. You could be a driving god, you can't however see what's coming around the next corner or predict what idiot drivers will do next.

Mol have you done a IAM course? This is exactly what it's about, if you can't see round the next corner, you adjust your speed.

Driving threads always end up like this.

One side saying slow down & the other side go faster.

Naturally the optimum place is somewhere in between.

Stopping people doing this would have a better effect on traffic flows then people travelling at 70mph on their sat nav
Once we've got rid of those we can go after the tailgaters too

But it's been tried for years. Notices on the motorway info gantries. Public information films. Discussions on forums. It's fairly evident that people are going to drive stupidly because nearly all of us over-estimate our skillz. Until we all drive perfectly, we just have to do stupid things more slowly.

This one needs some explanation though. IMHO the main thing that would improve traffic flow on UK roads is a bit of lane discipline.

On a typical trip down South on the M4 I might meet a middle lane hogger once or twice, so it's hardly a big issue. And it's not much more than an annoyance since you can only do it when the traffic's already flowing freely anyway so your journey time is hardly affected.

However when it starts to get moderately busy, people are changing lanes all over the place to pass other cars, and it's the lane change manoeuvre that carries most of the risk. And you have to slow down to wait for a gap, speed up again, then someone piles up behind you and has to brake, etc etc. This braking and accelerating not only uses more fuel but inhibits flow of traffic, much like turbulence in a fluid flow. It's a very well known and researched phenomenon. That's why you see those 'stay in lane' signs, and why variable speed limits work in INCREASING traffic speed.

One side saying slow down & the other side go faster.

You mean one side saying stick to the limits and one side saying there's no need if you're a driving god. So what's in the middle? Break the limits a bit? How much is ok?

This is exactly what it's about, if you can't see round the next corner, you adjust your speed.

What about if there is a car coming the other way?

What about if you are passing a junction?

If you are on a straight road with no other traffic, and no junctions, then I guess it's fine. However I think it's safe to say that's a pretty damn rare situation!

Are there really no takers for my bloke with a red flag? After all, if you have an accident surely it's better if you're going no faster than walking pace?

You mean one side saying stick to the limits and one side saying there's no need if you're a driving god. So what's in the middle? Break the limits a bit? How much is ok?

Oh dear, someones blown a gasket..

edit: & with that Im out - enjoy your ranting & raving boys & girls.

My speedo over-reads about 10% (I'm assuming my sat nav speed is more accurate...) so I generally do 60mph on the speedo going through 50mph average speed sections (there's certainly a buffer, I'm assuming about 10% so you're OK doing an actual 55mph anyhow). Not saying I'm big or clever and I will do 50mph if there's road workers about but the ones on the M5 by Bristol are just there until they put in more of the hateful 'managed motorways' crap. I am curious what the 'allowance' is though as when they first went up I misjudged the last set and had actually got up to 75mph before going through the last camera and didn't get a ticket - I reckon it must have been at least 60mph average for that section. Disclaimer: No children's faces were harmed during this incident

Oh dear, someones blown a gasket..

Top debating there.

deadlydarcy - Member

Top debating there.

😯

Calm down! I'm out too now, and I agreed with you. What's your problem?

Any motorcyclist who thinks they can ride past any speed cameras with impunity should think again;

Admittedly its only in France at the moment, but it is a very mobile technology

What about if there is a car coming the other way?

What about if you are passing a junction?

Again all part of the continious assesment you should be doing whether you're traveling above or below the speed limit!

That video 😆

There seems to be a dedicated section of motorist determined to reduce all the three lane motorways to tow lanes by totally ignoring the empty lane on their left.

Agreed. This is one of the biggest problems on the motorway network. I drive around 30K per annum and amazed at the number of drivers who get on the motorway, drift into the middle lane and stay there, regardless! In fact I am convinced that the central barrier on the M56 between the M53 and junction 12 is actually a massive magnet. The left hand lane is by far the clearest with the right hand lane being clogged by stop starters.

You mean one side saying stick to the limits and one side saying there's no need if you're a driving god. So what's in the middle? Break the limits a bit? How much is ok?

Oh dear, someones blown a gasket..
edit: & with that Im out - enjoy your ranting & raving boys & girls.

Is there a special "Edinburgh Defence" type name for this type of thing ?

Where someone makes a valid point and then gets accused of "blowing a gasket" or "ranting" and patronised.

Didn't seem to be ranting at all to me 😐

You mean your concept of speed is different. However that doesn't change the physics. You're just less worried about it cos you're used to it. Familiarity does in fact breed contempt

Possibly, however it can also breed awareness, perception, skill, ability, ability to avoid things etc etc.

I'm not disagreeing that speeding isn't 'bad'.... more saying that speeding doesn't instantly make me vastly more likley to be a statistic lying at the side of the road bleeding.

I've only had 1 road accident in the last 10 years. I was doing the 'overtaking a lane of stationary traffic' you lot always go on about as being dangerous..... it was that day 😉

Possibly, however it can also breed awareness, perception, skill, ability, ability to avoid things etc etc

So you're better able to avoid things, that's great. So why speed up then to make it more difficult again?

more saying that speeding doesn't instantly make me vastly more likley to be a statistic lying at the side of the road bleeding

Obviously not, that's not what we're saying. You're extrapolating something ridiculous to try and argue against. Reductio ad absurdum.

I've had 0 road accidents in 20 years of driving. However, I've had some near misses caused by a) being inattentive, b) messing about and c) being impatient and wanting to go fast.

The c) miss was potentially by far the worst. I'd have been killed.

This is one of the biggest problems on the motorway network.

I disagree. It's a minor annoyance.

What about if there is a car coming the other way?
What about if you are passing a junction?
Again all part of the continious assesment you should be doing whether you're traveling above or below the speed limit!

Yes but you are almost always passing a junction, entrance, or oncoming cars, that's my point!

So why speed up then to make it more difficult again?

Because it's fun doing 150mph on a motorbike mate, despite it being dangerous... it's cracking fun.

Don't forget, a Sports 1000cc motorbike will go from 60mph to 130mph in the time it takes you to change to Radio 2 on your buttons on the steering wheel.... won't take that much longer to get back to 60mph too.

People seem to miss just how quick superbikes are at picking up speed... Therefore going from 60-130mph isn't the long drawn out affair as it is in a car... you can do it if you hit the 300m marker on a junction and be over 130mph by the 100m marker LOL.

Because it's fun doing 150mph on a motorbike mate, despite it being dangerous... it's cracking fun.

Right - so you're just being selfish then?

Don't forget, a Sports 1000cc motorbike will go from 60mph to 130mph in the time it takes you to change to Radio 2 on your buttons on the steering wheel

Ah, that must be why there are so few motorbike accidents then.

Right - so you're just being selfish then?

I guess so fella.... If that's your perception of my speeding then yes i'm just being selfish.

Ah, that must be why there are so few motorbike accidents then.

I wasn't aware they were all caused by blokes doing 130mph.. you'd have thought they'd write more about that...

So you're better able to avoid things, that's great. So why speed up then to make it more difficult again?

Mol, do you ride (a) a fully rigid bike with canti's or (b)something newer with better brakes and some suspension that enable you to cover difficult terrain more easily and stop quicker?

If (b), do you still ride over the same terrain at the same speed as you would on (a) - or do you go slightly quicker and ride slightly more challenging terrain, to make it more difficult (enjoyable) again?

Obviously not, that's not what we're saying. You're extrapolating something ridiculous to try and argue against. Reductio ad absurdum.

I've had 0 road accidents in 20 years of driving. However, I've had some near misses caused by a) being inattentive, b) messing about and c) being impatient and wanting to go fast.

The c) miss was potentially by far the worst. I'd have been killed.

So by your own admission every 'near miss' you've had has been caused by inattentiveness and not assesing the road situation correctly and adjusting your speed to suit. NOT CAUSED BY EXCEEDIING THE SPEED LIMIT! 😉

Ah, that must be why there are so few motorbike accidents then.

I wasn't aware they were all caused by blokes doing 130mph.. you'd have thought they'd write more about that...

They are mostly caused by car/van/lorry drivers not paying attention/seeing the other (two wheeled) road users and pulling out on them

or, by people being fallible.

we can't stop people crashing*, it'll happen.

we [u]can[/u] influence the damage that results. Through training, speed limits, policing, etc.)

(6 points for being a tit, and a slightly crashy history in which noone was hurt, but important lessons were (hopefully) learned)

(*not meant in a pre-determined sense, but pragmatically)

So by your own admission every 'near miss' you've had has been caused by inattentiveness and not assesing the road situation correctly and adjusting your speed to suit. NOT CAUSED BY EXCEEDIING THE SPEED LIMIT!

Had I not had a generally relaxed attitude to driving, they wouldn't have been near misses, they'd have been serious accidents... That's what I'm saying - get into the habit of chilling out and you're automatically in a much more forgiving situation, if you OR THE OTHER DRIVER makes a mistake.

They are mostly caused by car/van/lorry drivers not paying attention/seeing the other (two wheeled) road users and pulling out on them

Stats?

It's easier to see a motorbike doing 60mph than one doing 150mph isn't it?

You may be having fun and in control zipping around, but when I look out of my junction, see a clear road (or look in my mirror and see a clear lane) then start my manoeuvre and suddenly a motorcyclist appears out of nowhere it's bloody dangerous. I don't want to be hit by a speeding motorcyclist, or car for that matter.

By speeding, you are making it even harder for other road users to see you and plan and react. I don't think that's something you want to be doing on a motorbike no?

Haven't read through all of this but they do seem to work in that I recall reading about "questions being asked" in a local council as they were spending a fortune on instllation and maintenance but not getting enough revenue in to cover it, so a net loss.

It's easier to see a motorbike doing 60mph than one doing 150mph isn't it?

By the time you've 'seen' me at 150mph i'm already 1/2 a mile up the road 🙂

(crashing into a truck of course)

By the time you've 'seen' me at 150mph i'm already 1/2 a mile up the road

Yeah or wrapped around my wing!

I disagree. It's a minor annoyance.

When most people drive correctly, i.e. over to the left except for over taking, idiots hogging the middle lane effectively reduce a 3 lane carriageway to a 2 lane. This moves everyone else in to the outside lane for overtaking causing unecessary congestion and all because they don't have the mental capacity to be able to cope with moving out from the inside lane to overtake.

You may be having fun and in control zipping around, but when I look out of my junction, see a clear road (or look in my mirror and see a clear lane) then start my manoeuvre and suddenly a motorcyclist appears out of nowhere it's bloody dangerous. I don't want to be hit by a speeding motorcyclist, or car for that matter.

By speeding, you are making it even harder for other road users to see you and plan and react. I don't think that's something you want to be doing on a motorbike no?

I do of course see your point... However it rarely enters into my mind at my chosen times of speed of this sort of level. They're not as common as some of my replies my imply... i don't do 150mph all the time LOL. However.... i'm probably rarely at speeds you would deem acceptable if i'm on a rideout.

Fallibility is indeed the key, none of us are perfect 😉
It's a risk assessment everytime you venture onto the roads, whatever mode of transport you're using.
I (also) ride a motorcycle myself, and accept that sadly any life threatening 'accident' I may have (being particularly vunerable on two wheels) will most likely be someone else's fault. Statistically.
Legislation will not keep me 100% safe. People make mistakes.

Fair point. I too boot my car (100mph) very rarely (done it about three times), usually on the M48 which is empty and has no junctions after the bridge. And it's only for a minute too.

In Germany I took advantage of the lack of speed limits.. for a bit, then I realised how dangerous it was...

any life threatening 'accident' I may have (being particularly vunerable on two wheels) will most likely be someone else's fault.

Yes, but the point is YOU can do things to mitigate OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes and poor driving. You need to know this as a cyclist, I imagine it would also come in handy as a motorcyclist. Defensive riding/driving.

all it takes is one troll.....

In Germany I took advantage of the lack of speed limits.. for a bit, then I realised how dangerous it was...

You see, i'm a bit weird... I can't recall the last time i took my car over 80mph (2.0 10plate Mondeo).... it feels WAY more unstable. At 100mph the car just wants to go straight, handling is crap... this isn't the mondeo, it's just 'cars' well, day to day cars...

however doing 100mph on a motorbike you feel like you can get off and walk, you can corner, brake, control and ride without any of the same feelings as in cars.

Once you hit 150mph then the bike starts losing it's handling... but still feels planted.... Once you hit 180mph (topped out Hayabusa/Gixer1000) then you're relying on the road being straight as an arrow and the world goes by VERY quickly....

3 miles a minute LOL.

I can't recall the last time i took my car over 80mph (2.0 10plate Mondeo).... it feels WAY more unstable

Mine was fine at 100mph, only started to feel less stable at 110mph. As for going straight - this was open autobahn so not very windy.

however doing 100mph on a motorbike you feel like you can get off and walk

But if you hit something...

But if you hit something...

the IF factor is prbably part of the reason it's fun...

HAve a word with yourself Dino.

I've had a fair few crashes racing though and even more on trackdays. The most spectacular of which was from 160mph braking too late and going over the bars in a rolling stoppie, the bike flipped, shattering my femur, hand and wrist, a couple of ribs later, a collar bone and plenty of bruising... it was an interesting day

Has Barry Sheene joined the forum?

Wasn't there a thread about famous people on the forum recently?

I drop well below the limit for the first half then go over the limit for the rest

Ok, so you really do not get the point of these cameras then do you.

Ho hum - Member
Has Barry Sheene joined the forum?

Wasn't there a thread about famous people on the forum recently?

I'm not Barry Sheene, i'm just an average bloke who loved doing trackdays and then went racing.

I guess I can't bring myself to 'do a weeksy' on the public roads, ok on a track day, I'm too scared I get taken out.
Plus I wouldn't want the points 😉
Touching 3 figures every now and again <ahem> can't really be justified, so I won't try, but 150 to 180's a bit savage mate.

Sorry, going back a bit,

If you think speeding's as safe as not speeding, then you are either stupid or lying to yourself.

Just as an aside, I watched a TV programme a couple of years back about motorists who habitually broke the speed limits. One thing they found was that when the speeders were forced to drive to the posted limits (for purposes of the documentary), one of two things happened. Either they got frustrated far more quickly and were more prone to making erratic decisions or succumbing to road rage; or, they were bored and their attention wandered away from driving, instead they were fiddling with the stereo or otherwise occupying their mind with other things, and started making mistakes.

Now, I'm not saying the solution there is to allow them to speed - rather, it highlights a training issue - and it was a short-term test with a small pool of volunteers rather than a properly conducted scientific study. Point is, it's not as black and white as you're asserting, it's more complicated than that.

WHATEVER THE ACCIDENT... the CONSEQUENCES ARE WORSE IF YOU ARE SPEEDING

You're right of course, but that do you suggest? Should we drop the NSL to 20mph? Then when there's a pile-up on the M6, it'll be a nice gentle one. That sort of thing might've been viable once, but these days it's a balance between limiting everyone's speed for safety reasons whilst enabling them to make progress.

The problem is that fixed limits aren't a particularly ideal method of regulating speed. On some 50mph roads it's perfectly safe to do 70mph at times, on others it's dangerous to do 30. Driving past a school at 4pm and at 4am carries very different risks.

Inappropriate speed is far more dangerous than breaking some arbitrary figure assigned to a road several decades ago. We either need variable speed limits or better driver training, or ideally both. If people were properly equipped to judge road conditions and drive accordingly, the roads would be a lot safer and we wouldn't need these poxy little signs everywhere.

You could be a driving god, you can't however see what's coming around the next corner or predict what idiot drivers will do next.

Of course you can. You know what a blind bend looks like and adjust your speed and road position accordingly. You assume everyone else is an idiot and constantly roll through what they might do next. The roads aren't 'black box' systems, there's plenty of clues to be picked up on.

it's the lane change manoeuvre that carries most of the risk. And you have to slow down to wait for a gap, speed up again, then someone piles up behind you and has to brake, etc etc.

Touching 3 figures every now and again <ahem> can't really be justified, so I won't try, but 150 to 180's a bit savage mate.

I don't disagree and it's been a while since i maxed out a bike...

However i do struggle not to see 150mph each and every time on a Japnese 1000 sportsbike. It's just so sodding effortless to do and so quick and easy.... along with the fun factor of seeing your mates disappear in your mirrors.

Happily for you lot i no longer own a Japanese 1000, the wife does though so i use that a bit... I own a bike that struggle at more than 130 now due to being a sit-up type.

The most spectacular of which was from 160mph braking too late and going over the bars in a rolling stoppie, the bike flipped, shattering my femur, hand and wrist, a couple of ribs later, a collar bone and plenty of bruising... it was The most spectacular of which was from 160mph braking too late and going over the bars in a rolling stoppie, the bike flipped, shattering my femur, hand and wrist, a couple of ribs later, a collar bone and plenty of bruising... it was an interesting day

Im a story teller & the story must be true!
Looking forward to you in our Donor Unit soon!

Im a story teller & the story must be true!
Looking forward to you in our Donor Unit soon!

Complete Kn&b

It was a race, it was on a circuit with ambulances and medical staff etc. WTF else was i supposed to do in a race. I came down the back straight, missed my braking marker.. Well techincally i hit my braking marker right.. but 30 bikes in front of me braking meant i should have moved my braking marker LOL. The lessons you learn in your first race 🙂

That's simply not how you change lanes efficiently. That's the behaviour of someone who only ever sees the tail-lights in front of them, it's a symptom of bad driving, not lane changing.

mol was describing why not changing lanes on exceptionally busy periods/stretches on Variable Speed Limit motorways (when VSLs are in place) is better than people constantly diving in and out of lanes.

Until folk drive perfectly, and it seems no matter how the driving test changes or what aids are added to cars, they're going to do stupid things, we're just going to have to put up with doing them more slowly. All this "inappropriate speed" stuff seems to be spoken by those who believe they have higher skillz levels than the rest of the populace. I'm as happy for the driving gods to be restricted as those with average skills.

I'm not Barry Sheene, i'm just an average bloke who loved doing trackdays and then went racing.

why not keep it to the track then instead of using the public highway?
if you have an outlet for your speed thrills that's done in a place where you are less likely to injure yourself and others why ride like a tit on the public road?

i couldn't give a toss if irresponsible motorcyclists wrap themselves round trees at 100mph (something they do quite frequently on the roads near my folks on the edge of the Romney marsh) as long as they don't injure anyone else but surely it makes sense to do that with a gravel run off area and paramedics 30 seconds away?

why not keep it to the track then instead of using the public highway?
if you have an outlet for your speed thrills that's done in a place where you are less likely to injure yourself and others why ride like a tit on the public road?

i couldn't give a toss if irresponsible motorcyclists wrap themselves round trees at 100mph (something they do quite frequently on the roads near my folks on the edge of the Romney marsh) as long as they don't injure anyone else but surely it makes sense to do that with a gravel run off area and paramedics 30 seconds away?

Agree, despite not racing i still do plenty of trackdays now. They do give you the time and place to unleash your inner child of course.

However, if i were to only do 70mph on a motorbike on the roads, i may as well throw in the towel.... and i really don't wish to do that.

All this "inappropriate speed" stuff seems to be spoken by those who believe they have higher skillz levels than the rest of the populace.

Thing is, they probably do. That doesn't mean they have (or believe they have) l33t skillz necessarily though, rather that the rest of the populace contains a very large number of clueless drivers. If you're in any way a reasonably competent motorist, you're almost certainly "above average".

What irks me a little, with the temporary average speed camera zones on the motorways is that they are just so very very long when you compare them to the amount of active roadwork crews you see within that section. I'm no roadworks expert but I'm sure you could fit all active stages of preparation and construction into a couple of miles of road rather than slowing us down for an entire 15-20mile stretch.

"inappropriate speed" stuff

Remember - statisitics can prove anything. I once saw an HSE piechart where 16% of the accidents were attributed to being "struck by a stationary object" "Speed" is a factor in nearly all motoring accidents, but in terms of vehicle/vehicle collisions (not including motorbikes, obviouslly) everyday speeding isn't that big a factor in terms of how serious an outcome will result.

Anybody in support of constant re-examination, once someone passes their test?

Say, every 10 years, you need to clock up at least 4hrs 'instructor time' , and re-take both the practical and theory tests?

Anybody in support of constant re-examination

Yeah, in theory.

In practice it's a non-starter, we just don't have anything like the resource to do it, and putting the infrastructure in place to cope with demand would be a big (expensive) undertaking.

I quite like the idea of making an advanced test mandatory within a couple of years of passing a regular test.

xiphon - Member
Anybody in support of constant re-examination, once someone passes their test?

Say, every 10 years, you need to clock up at least 4hrs 'instructor time' , and re-take both the practical and theory tests?

VERY much so... if it were govenment funded, i'd like it less than that... maybe every 2 years.

Although the downside of increasing the number of uninsured drivers sky rocketing would be a concern.

Anybody in support of constant re-examination

I'd rather pay for something proactive like this than something reactive like insurance...

Anybody in support of constant re-examination, once someone passes their test?

Totally. Wouldn't need to be a a complete test, eye exam, reaction test and hazard perception would probably cover it

I still think if you go into a garage to buy certain cars it should result in the instantaneous revocation of your license on the grounds that you must actually not like driving.

statisitics can prove anything... "Speed" is a factor in nearly all motoring accidents

Quite. We've discussed this before but, you need to look at statistics like that critically. When they say "speed is a factor", do they mean it was a [i]causal [/i]factor or just that one of the parties happened to be breaking the limit?

If a party was breaking the limit in (for example) 70% of collisions, but 70% of drivers are speeding anyway, then isn't speed statistically irrelevant here?

As Molgrips was explaining in capitals earlier, for a given collision speed can easily influence the severity of an incident. But if we're actually trying to reduce the number of accidents, perhaps it'd be more effective to focus on things like people tailgating or trying to negotiate a roundabout with a phone pressed to their ear.

As an aside, I'm amazed that it's still legal to smoke in cars. On what planet is holding something in your hand which is [b]on fire[/b] whilst driving a great idea?

If that 70% of drivers weren't speeding, there'd be less accidents.

... in your opinion.

<mod>
I've deleted a couple of the more aggressive comments from earlier in the thread. Please play nicely and refrain from hurling insults about.
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If that 70% of drivers weren't speeding, there'd be less accidents.

... in your opinion.

Is the reverse true then?

M60 average cams catch 460 offenders a month.

*goes back thru thread to check for modding.*

All this "inappropriate speed" stuff seems to be spoken by those who believe they have higher skillz levels than the rest of the populace. I'm as happy for the driving gods to be restricted as those with average skills.

But why, all restricting people does is create frustration and increased stress and tension on the roads. The likely outcome if this is more accidents not less. I must admit myself that I've had more close calls when pottering along within the limit than when driving intentionally fast. The brain switches off when you're stuck to an artificially reduced limit. Not ideal but true.

I've done lots of extra training since passing my test. AIM, police type fast road training, observational training and a couple of track based handling sessions. So I think my standard of driving is way above average. Sure I still make the odd mistake but who doesn't. The extra training, awareness of hazards combined with a high performance car with good handling and good brakes means that often I can drive above the posted limits completely safely whilst at the same time taking accounts if any harass that might be present. For someone who's not had this training then these hazards might seem like unexpected events, but in reality 99% are totally predictable.

I fail to see why if conditions allow then a speed limit can't be safely exceeded. We shouldn't all have to drive to the lowest common denominator. Often I will get flashed when passing a slower driver even though an overtake is safe an legal. I think that slower drivers with less skill seem to think that everyone else should be brought down to their level. I don't mind people driving slow. It's a good chance for an overtake, but just because you want to drive slow, don't assume that everyone else does too.

I'd recommend the extra training to anyone. Similarly I'd recommend to anyone to get a fast car, then you will appreciate the extra level of road holding and safety that can be achieved.

Forgot to add, that I'd never dream if exceeding limits in a built up or residential area, too risky. I'm talking about clear roads, good weather and visibility, low traffic volume etc. I also have plenty if consideration for other road users, particularly cyclists (being one myself), horses etc. Many others I've seen just barge right past - well within the speed limit I might add.

[edited.]

I'd love to see the mess we'd be in if everybody that could, drove a "fast car".