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anyone ever been done by one?
(specifically those temporary road works ones)
was just wondering if they actually worked as I was driving though one on the M23 last night keeping the needle on the required 50 and loads of people were zooming past me.
igoring the obvious twuntish behaviour but do they know something I don’t or are they just dumb?
Perhaps they were using the speed limit plus 10% plus 1 thingy and it just seemed they were going past faster than they were.
My wife attended a speed awareness course in the North East and there were people on the course who had been done by the average speed cameras on the A!.
I don't know if they work or not, I always stick to the limit or just under it.
You do see loads or people ignoring them though, makes me wonder if they understand the concept of;
a) speed limits
b) speed cameras
c) the word average
But hey, it's them that get caught and not me so who cares?
I've heard of people done by them, but think it's not so common. Mostly as the majority do tend to stick roughly the right speed, "on average".
Also, if traffic slows right down during it, you can then go over the limit. So long as the average is right 😉
Anyway, cop at speed awareness course told us the average speed cameras aren't used for revenue, with implication that Gatsos are. Though doesn't mean you can't get a fine from them. I guess he means the average ones are more lenient.
What he did say is the primary source of speed fines comes from mobile units, handheld guns etc. Which is how I got done and I think most on the course did also.
They can’t be clever avg speed cameras ie do 100 miles, drive 90 miles at 5 mph and the last 10 miles silly fast?
it has to be the avg speed between 1 camera and the next which gives less opportunity to go quick
I stick to 54mph
I 've been past by a range rover sport doing over a ton the braking heavily for the cameras the booting it again on the cambridge average speed cameras section.
Have you noticed how they aren’t taking them away after the roadworks have finished?
Wont be long before the whole motorway network is covered and they get switched back on permanently...
Wont be long before the whole motorway network is covered and they get switched back on permanently…
don't worry once self driving cars are on the road every car/bike/lorry will have a limiter.
I think they keep them on the motorways once the works have been completed for a period of time, just to educate drivers that speeding isn't clever nor a cock waving contest.
You will of course always come across the truck driver up your chuff intimidating you through average speed camera sections, it's ingrained in them that they're above any law in the UK and feel all macho because they're 1.4mm from your bumper.
Of course slam braking whilst in front of them isn't clever either, but slowing down in a progressive manner certainly makes them aware that you are not going to be intimidated and they normally overtake or undertake.. which is fine by me. I'm not in the slightest concerned about those idiots.
I'm more concerned by the morons who overtake you then pull in in front of you giving no warning, no indications and 2mm's from your bumper.. all so they can exit left because they've lost the concept of lane filtering before the junction appears.
Generally though, say 80% of the time, most people are indeed normal and drive correctly through them. Obviously not all of us are morons, most people actually do care about our driving ability and consideration for other road users...
Exceptions to that, yes.. there will always be exceptions.
The M25 ave cameras during congestion times work, two colleagues have been done on the western section (heathrow) doing 50 in a red limited 40.
Wont be long before the whole motorway network is covered and they get switched back on permanently…
Don't tease, that would be bliss.
You will of course always come across the truck driver up your chuff intimidating you through average speed camera sections
Or their speedo is calibrated more accurately than a passenger car?
Average speed cameras have transformed the A9. I used to drive Elgin to Perth regularly and there was almost always a "moment" every trip. Did it again this last summer - firts time in about 8 years..everyone was much better behaved.
They certainly do the ones on the A1 mentioned above got hundreds, then there was a balls up so some had their fines cancelled.
On the M6 and coming soon to the M60 smart section. They have a camera mounted to the side of the pole that is perminately on and set at 70. https://www.speedcamerasuk.com/hadecs-3.htm
Or their speedo is calibrated more accurately than a passenger car?
How is that relevant? Is tailgating ok if you have a more accurate speedo?
Just because the car in front is slower than the limit doesn't mean you can sit on their tail.
Or their speedo is calibrated more accurately than a passenger car?
How is that relevant? Is tailgating ok if you have a more accurate speedo?
Just because the car in front is slower than the limit doesn’t mean you can sit on their tail.
Eggzakerly..
Some people eh, it’s like they need spoon feeding common sense.
Never been done by an average speed camera because I don't drive like a dick.
I think average speed cameras are great and should be installed nationwide, they have transformed the A9 and A90 into roads that are pleasant to drive.
Insightful, from Klunk's link
What police say about speed cameras on A14
PC Jon Morris, casualty reduction officer at Cambridgeshire Constabulary, said: “The speed limits on the A14 are in place for safety reasons and I’d urge all road users to adhere to them.
"Those who choose to ignore the speed limits will face prosecution and more importantly put people’s safety at risk.”
Er, if I am not mistaken, that applies to all speed limits/cameras, like.
they have transformed the A9 and A90 into roads that are pleasant to drive.
Really ? The A9 is now tedious and boring with people doing dangerous overtakes.
Back in the day you could easily drive at 70+ mph without it being dangerous
On the M6 and coming soon to the M60 smart section. They have a camera mounted to the side of the pole that is perminately on and set at 70.
They're not average speed cameras, I don't think.
On the M6 and coming soon to the M60 smart section. They have a camera mounted to the side of the pole that is perminately on and set at 70.
They’re not average speed cameras, I don’t think
A few years back it was decided by traffic Wales at least (i assume it was a decision from on high so UK wide but never saw anything outside of Wales personally) that all new gantries should have cameras and they should be both fixed and average to prevent surfing. If that ever made it beyond tendering i don't know - I'd imagine it got dropped once pricing came back in, but it was certainly present on specs for a couple of years.
Personally I'm all for cameras everywhere, unsignposted and rigidly fixed at the limit but it'll never happen.
I always assumed the reason trucks seem to speed through with relative impunity was because they were generally limited to 56mph,
56 < ([50 + 10%] + 2)
So trucks could speed through at their normal speed without worrying.
The M25 ave cameras during congestion times work, two colleagues have been done on the western section (heathrow) doing 50 in a red limited 40.
Those aren't average cameras, they're fixed cameras with variable limits, the nearest average bit I think is the M25/M3 junction with a permanent 50 limit and average speed cameras.
Have you noticed how they aren’t taking them away after the roadworks have finished?
Wont be long before the whole motorway network is covered and they get switched back on permanently…
The one's that aren't on have signs saying "camera not in use". AFAIK driving Manchester to London a lot over the summer the ones on the M6 and M4 were all off outside the roadworks. They're presumably left up as they're upgrading them to managed/smart motorways so keep revisiting sections to do work.
Really? The A9 is now tedious and boring with people doing dangerous overtakes.
Surely the dangerous overtakes make it exciting and interesting?
The one’s that aren’t on have signs saying “camera not in use”.
My favorites are the signs which read "sign not in use"
My favorites are the signs which read “sign not in use”
I try not to think about those too much, it could break the space/time continuum (which could really stuff up my average speed through the roadworks).
They have left them on the M3 after the M25 going south. This is, IMO, a good thing as 8 lanes merging is a bit of a choke point.
They have left them on the M3
There's a speed limit on the M3??
A9 boring and tedious ? Naw as a regular user it's meant that at the speed limit your no longer the slowest thing on the road , the dualer sections are no longer like wacky races with people doing 100+ to get past as many folk as possible .
They also average camera's the a92 south which has made it a plesent drive at rush hour again at 70 you didn't dare pull out to pass a truck previously for fear of an Audi /BMW barrelling up the back of you at 110. It also means that bottle necks at Charleston and bridge of Dee are much less congested than previous as you don't have everyone that left Dundee between 6.30 and 7.30 all arriving at 8am trying to negotiate it.
Stick the cruise control on kick back and relax.
Going north up the a92 is still mental with folk "making progress" at everyone's expense. There's been a high number of accidents this week alone.
Proofs in the pudding with the accident statistics.
Cougar, no they're not average speed camera's. But once the average ones switch off, the ones behind the speed sign, these stay on. In case anyone fancied flooring it.
Some people eh, it’s like they need spoon feeding common sense
Ooh, I'm really sorry for explaining their reasoning without condoning their actions. Maybe you should take a teaspoon of civility while I take my common sense eh.
The A9 has been greatly improved, and journey times cut, since the cameras were introduced. The number of times I see selfish prats doing their stupid overtaking manoeuvres has reduced significantly.
The A9 is a total ballache now - admittedly their were complete idiots before, but now is almost as bad as everyone is constantly watching speed and not Road (unless they have cruise control, but even that appears to be constantly checked).
Awful Road to drive now, I'm not a fast driver but I do think the danger has been moved from fast idiots to the constant eye on the speedo and not the road.
They do work between 2 cameras, don't they, so 4 cameras...between cam 1 and 2, then 3 and 4 or between 1 and 2, 2 and 3 and 3 and 4 or between 1 and 4?
Surely the dangerous overtakes make it exciting and interesting?
They're all members of the Schrodinger clan.
ASCs have reduced accidents and fatalities on the A9.
As a regular A9 user, I’d agree with gwaelod and trailrat, (and scotroutes), since the cameras went on the number of speeding drivers has reduced noticeably, i used to have, on average, one serious moment on every trip to snekkie, but nowadays such events have become a rarity.
average speed cameras work.
They do work between 2 cameras, don’t they, so 4 cameras…between cam 1 and 2, then 3 and 4 or between 1 and 2, 2 and 3 and 3 and 4 or between 1 and 4?
Older ones ran in pairs, so it could be lane 1 of batch 1 paired with lane 2 of batch 3. Think the modern ones are a bit smarter so just check your speed between any 2 fixed points.
I always assumed the reason trucks seem to speed through with relative impunity was because they were generally limited to 56mph,
56 < ([50 + 10%] + 2)
10%+2 is ACPO guidelines, ie a police recommendation. It's not law anywhere, you could theoretically get done for doing 51mph (though you'd have to be pretty unlucky).
I always thought the 56mph thing was related to fuel economy?
They do work between 2 cameras, don’t they, so 4 cameras…between cam 1 and 2, then 3 and 4 or between 1 and 2, 2 and 3 and 3 and 4 or between 1 and 4?
All of the above, though they don't cover the dualled sections and the two at Tomatin/Daviot always operate as a pair.
Ok, ta. I'll stick to my normal then...cruise control at speed limit (which is 2mph below according to GPS - which isn't 100% accurate but seems to be better than speedo (according to those signs that show your speed, GPS is the same, speedo 2mph faster) and drive.
Speeding motorists have reduced but those not watching speed and either braking hard then slowing down a lot or just 'crawling' have increased.
Once every car is "connected" they can do away with cameras Surprised they aren't already fining people based on Google Maps and Waze use.
I used the A9 some weeks ago & was impressed with how quickly & effortlessly I covered a lot of miles. Constantly speeding up & slowing down as traffic bunches is a pain. Stick the cruise control on chill out a bit.
Surprised they aren’t already fining people based on Google Maps and Waze use.
Seems like a sure-fire way of getting people to not use those apps. It's not like there's a shortage of alternatives.
Eggzakerly..
Some people eh, it’s like they need spoon feeding common sense.
Seriously ??
You admitted to deliberately slowing down to cause 30T trucks inches behind you behind you to slow down and driving in the wrong lane?
All legalities aside and the laws you are brewing by doing this it doesn't sound anything close to common sense.
FWIW those roadside displays that show average time to destination/junction are calculated using Bluetooth ID. ....
FWIW those roadside displays that show average time to destination/junction are calculated using Bluetooth ID. ….
I thought it was using phone mast triangulation.
Seriously ??
You admitted to deliberately slowing down to cause 30T trucks inches behind you behind you to slow down and driving in the wrong lane?
All legalities aside and the laws you are brewing by doing this it doesn’t sound anything close to common sense.
Yeah seriously.
No reason for a truck to be up yer arse is there ?
Unless you like it that way.
So, instead of being shoved from behind or flashed for doing the speed limit.. slow down a bit over a section of say 100mtrs and they get the picture that you aren’t going to be intimidated and either overtake or undertake.
I do it yes, I’ll continue to do it because I value MY life and don’t want nor need to be intimidated on the public highway by morons who think they own the road.
Happy to share that with you.
If you feel any different then by golly speed all you like.
Yeah seriously.
No reason for a truck to be up yer arse is there ?
Unless you like it that way.
So, instead of being shaved from behind or flashed for doing the speed limit.. slow down a bit over a section of say 100mtrs and they get the picture that you aren’t going to be intimidated and either overtake or more likely undertake.
I do it yes, I’ll continue to do it because I value MY life and don’t want nor need to be intimidated on the public highway by morons who think they own the road.
Happy to share that with you.
and you don't think just pulling into the correct lane is safer ?
Quite honestly it sounds to me like you are more worried about "want nor need to be intimidated on the public highway by morons who think they own the road."
Any pissing contest with 30T of truck only ends one way if it goes wrong.
Average speed cameras have transformed the A9. I used to drive Elgin to Perth regularly and there was almost always a “moment” every trip. Did it again this last summer – firts time in about 8 years..everyone was much better behaved.
Yup,as others have said, trips up the A9 have gone from almost being guaranteed to have some sort of close call everytime (either daft overtaking on single lane road, or the frantic MUST overtake at all costs to gain 2 seconds in time at the merging of a dual sections), to being a far more relaxed and well flowing affair.
On my trips from Stirling to Ullapool I used to feel frazzled by the end of the journey - now it seems pretty straightforward stuff. IMO Average speed cameras have been a total blessing to that route.
So, instead of being shoved from behind or flashed for doing the speed limit.. slow down a bit over a section of say 100mtrs and they get the picture that you aren’t going to be intimidated and either overtake or undertake.
I'm with you on the slowing down momentarily for tailgating trucks bit, it enforces braking distance. But if you're being undertaken (and doubly so if it's "more likely" to happen), you're in the wrong lane. Stop being a road hog and move over please.
I’m with you on the slowing down momentarily for tailgating trucks bit, it enforces braking distance. But if you’re being undertaken (and it’s “more likely”), you’re in the wrong lane. Stop being a road hog and move over.
Exactly ... but be aware the driver might not even see you if they are as described inches away....
Ages ago my Dad was driving in slow traffic (Padiham road) and my brother and I were in the back. A truck hit us at 2-3mph... and the back of the car was completely crushed..incredibly no one was hurt. The driver was incredibly apologetic and my Dad said he believed he honestly he just didn't see us. Similarly I was once on a bus that clipped a parked car ... (empty) ... not going fast at all and the car was just destroyed,
Those memories have stopped with me... and I've driven a few class 'C''s with air brakes as well... so quite honestly I wouldn't consider who is right or wrong... because so much can go wrong... Small comfort to your partner, parents or kids who was in the right...
I always thought the 56mph thing was related to fuel economy?
Nah - 56mph = 90km/h
All of the above, though they don’t cover the dualled sections and the two at Tomatin/Daviot always operate as a pair.
I should correct this...
ASCs on the A9 cover the dual carriageway between Dunblane and Perth and only the single carraigeways between Perth and Inverness. Sorry if I misled.
According to the “Live traffic” thingumybob on my TomTom, some of the cameras are on but not all
Nah – 56mph = 90km/h
Relevant to European lorries, but ours?
Nah – 56mph = 90km/h
Relevant to European lorries, but ours?
As ours will have to comply with EU regs, yes, especially if they pop over the Channel. There’s a reason UK spec cars have to be able to display vehicle speed in km/h.
According to the “Live traffic” thingumybob on my TomTom, some of the cameras are on but not all
I have the tomtom live service. There's absolutely no way in hell that it knows what cameras are on at any given time
I agree the A9 cameras are a brilliant success in saving lives, reducing incidents and making the road less stressful to drive. Combined with increased truck speed, it's faster overall too.
@scotroutes - got a source for the Bluetooth thing?
Journey Times on the A9 are measured using Bluetooth technology and the available data is
sourced from Transport Scotland’s established journey time stations immediately north of
Inveralmond Roundabout, Perth and immediately south of the A96 Raigmore junction,
Inverness.
But there are many similar systems installed throughout the UK
https://tracsistraffic.com/technology/bluetooth-traffic-surveys/
Every day's a school day, thank you
*Turns off Bluetooth*
The A9 has definitely got a lot safer with the cameras but it means that Edinburgh to Aviemore is now a three hour journey because traffic moves at 50 on the non duelled sections, caused by the mathematically challenged driving at that speed to make sure they don't average above 60. We need a new kind of speed awareness course I think!
because traffic moves at 50 on the non duelled sections, caused by the mathematically challenged
Except trucks and most vans are limited to 50 on the single carriageway section, so ultimately almost all traffic will do 50mph unless they have an amazingly clear run with no trucks or vans which is highly unlikely
Been driving up the A9 for years and it used to be a rat run of dickish behaviour, never had a problem on the A9 since the introduction of the average speed cameras and it’s a much more pleasant journey with the aid of cruise control and gps alert speed warnings.
A9 has been improved enormously by average speed cameras.
Used to be at least one butt clenching moment every time I drove it, now that's rare.
But the dickheads still manage to smear themselves across the road surface from time to time. Sadly sometimes it's the people in the other vehicle.
There’s a reason UK spec cars have to be able to display vehicle speed in km/h.
Saves printing two different sets of dials?
Pretty sure my 1977 Ford Fiesta had secondary km/h, and that was unlikely to be going round Europe any time soon,
I do 5 days a week on the A9 and I've got to say I'm a big fan of the cameras.
I've not noticed a big slow down, matter of fact I think it's easier to overtake the trucks now cos the coppers mainly leave the cameras to police the singletrack and focus on the dual. So you can overtake trucks quickly rather than worrying about being caught at over 60 by a copper.
I think theres actually no need to dual the bloody lot now, thats whats going to be delaying me in the future.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Really ? The A9 is now tedious and boring with people doing dangerous overtakes.</span>
Back in the day you could easily drive at 70+ mph without it being dangerous
Some of the stuff people used to do on the A9 was just crazy. I drove it this summer, and it was no problem at all.
Saves printing two different sets of dials?
Construction and Use regs '86:
"35.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer which, if the vehicle is first used on or after 1st April 1984, shall be capable of indicating speed in both miles per hour and kilometres per hour, either simultaneously or, by the operation of a switch, separately. "
Back in the day you could easily drive at 70+ mph without it being dangerous
And yet the number of accidents and fatalities has reduced. 🤔
Saves printing two different sets of dials?
Construction and Use regs ’86:
“35.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer which, if the vehicle is first used on or after 1st April 1984, shall be capable of indicating speed in both miles per hour and kilometres per hour, either simultaneously or, by the operation of a switch, separately. “
Also, EU Regs mandate km/h capability, but allow for mph in markets using imperial measurements, such as UK. So German/French (etc) market vehicles only have to display km/h, though now with digital rather than analogue, many have the ability to display in either.
I drive from Suffolk to Somerset regularly as well as other trips around the country and using cruise control works well for limited areas (although I wish people would overtake by putting their foot down instead of staying on their set speed). I tend to focus on driving safely and trying make sure I have space. I speed occasionally but in 13 years of trundling across the country by various routes on Motorway and A roads I've had one ticket and that was three miles from home by a local mobile unit! :-/
Interested to hear about the Bluetooth initiative, I’m not that worried about the ping from my car/device if the information it only a “ping” and captures nothing more than that.. which it should do becuse you have to pair the devices together for any meaningful data to be accessed..
Which is obviously a Data Privacy issue, and against many laws in the country.
So happy to leave my Bluetooth on for those reasons, if it helps traffic flow management.
I'm just going to cover my van in tin foil, cos #bigbrother
I also find the A9 much improved, a significant element from my perspective is allowing the big trucks to do 50mph.
I also find the A9 much improved, a significant element from my perspective is allowing the big trucks to do 50mph.
Yep. Two initiatives running in parallel make it difficult to ascertain which caused the biggest improvement in accident statistics. I reckon that increasing the speed of the slowest vehicles whilst minimising the speed of the fastest is a pretty good combination though.
I'd happily see the whole motorway network covered by ASCs tbh, freeing the traffic cops to monitor poor driving instead.
And then a sensible debate on why we have cars on the road that are capable of stupid speeds anyway....
So happy to leave my Bluetooth on for those reasons, if it helps traffic flow management.
The issue is that your bluetooth ID is being collect when you step in any large shop too (every supermarket does bluetooth tracking to work out 1) who you are so they can advertise to you and 2) to learn about the movements of their customers through their own store AND between other stores because they buy the data from the 'impartial' companies who have the hardware installed). You can probably guarantee that companies collecting this data are also selling it. So yes if your BT ID was only being tracked on the side of motorways by traffic monitoring agencies then it would be fine. But it's being collected constantly whenever you are in a busy town. And that can build a pretty solid picture up of you
Yeah I know, but only Walmart (Asda) do this and I don’t shop in Asda so I don’t care.
And a few festivals this year have done it too, but again I don’t go to festivals so that’s fine.
Apreciate the privacy element though, it’s certainly a concern and the ICO have been looking at devices that have Bluetooth and who knows if this will become the next privacy issue.. dunno.
Bluejacking is possible, you can get apps for that and have been able to for sometime.. again another privacy concern.
But I do see the application for traffic management utilising Bluetooth to monitor traffic a reasonable use of it. And therefore I’m fine with it.
To clarify for BoardinBob, my TomTom only registers some of the many speeding camera gantries on the Newport section of the M4, not all of them, and, rather cleverly I think, often flags up mobile units on the dual from Usk to Ross (not always correct, but when it registers a false alarm will usually ask if the camera’s still there). I don’t know how it does it, or if it’s accurate, but there’s some kind of voodoo shenanigans going on there.
my TomTom only registers some of the many speeding camera gantries on the Newport section of the M4, not all of them, and, rather cleverly I think, often flags up mobile units on the dual from Usk to Ross
Mine does the same however as far as I know it relies on users flagging up the location of fixed cameras and also hot spots for mobile cameras. When I’m driving through average ones I’ll get a random warning but I believe that’s only because someone has reported one at that point. There’s no way the authorities are feeding details of what cameras are on or off to TomTom
I do it yes, I’ll continue to do it because I value MY life and don’t want nor need to be intimidated on the public highway by morons who think they own the road.
You understand that two wrongs don't make a right, yes? If you're in the way, just get out of the way - it won't cost you anything and lorry dude can crack on however he likes.
I don't travel regularly on the M42 round Brum, but I remember trips in 2001/2002 during rush hour that were a nightmare compared to the same trip now, even with the massive increase in traffic volume. Got no problem with smart motorways, me.
(The roadworks related to the Oldbury viaduct are another matter - blinkin criminal, they are....)