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Are you really arguing that all-round observation is bad practice?
that I have to keep an eye out in case you are going to overtake me - I don't remember this being taught in the highway code.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/travelandtransport/highwaycode/dg_070309
151In slow-moving traffic. You should
reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow
never get so close to the vehicle in front that you cannot stop safely
leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past
not change lanes to the left to overtake
allow access into and from side roads, as blocking these will add to congestion
[b] be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side[/b]
HTH. Next?
<applauds Cougar and awaits response with baited breath>
Are you really arguing that all-round observation is bad practice?
I may have alround observation, but that doesn't give you the right to take away my safe braking distance - it is the responsibility of the person overtaking me to ensure that they don't inconvenience me, which includes making me brake.
Maybe it is time for you to retake your test:
OVERTAKING, MEETING ONCOMING TRAFFIC, TURNING ACROSS TRAFFIC:-Overtaking unsafely, wrong time or place, causing other road users inconvenience or danger, too close or cutting in afterwards causing another vehicle to swerve brake or stop. Inadequate clearance when meeting oncoming traffic, causing vehicles to swerve or brake. Turning right across oncoming traffic unsafely causing other vehicle to swerve, brake or stop
[url= http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BeDa0s3Dgj8C&pg=PA357&lpg=PA357&dq=too+close+or+cutting+in+afterwards+causing+another+vehicle+to+swerve+brake+or+stop&source=bl&ots=fWlIYRBQ_k&sig=X5vHr0dMzecBxAdYNkk4aWx4QG0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wukOUOLHB6OZ0QXDv4C4Bw&ved=0CGQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=too%20close%20or%20cutting%20in%20afterwards%20causing%20another%20vehicle%20to%20swerve%20brake%20or%20stop&f=false ]see page 256 - Summary of 'L' driver faults[/url]
be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side
they may pass, and I need to be aware that they are passing so I don't swerve into them but if they cut in and take my braking distance and cause me to break, they would fail their test.
Next?
They are not taking away your safe braking distance as has been explained - they will be setting up to use the centre of the road as an escape route in emergancy leaving you with the same amount of space between you and the car in front.
I can see that it can be frustrating that bikes do this when you cannot get past. However it is not having any significant adverse effect on you in the real world
and who relies on their mirrors anyway ?
heard of blind spots ?
Excuse me for not having read all of the thread. Are we saying that it's OK for a motorcyclist to cut into my "safe braking distance" but not a car, van or lorry?
Always assuming that, in the event of something untowards happening, the space in the centre of the road is still clear?TandemJeremy - Member
They are not taking away your safe braking distance as has been explained - they will be setting up to use the centre of the road as an escape route in emergancy leaving you with the same amount of space between you and the car in front.
Then your next paragraph mentions "contemptuous ease"; then there's "badly driven econoboxes",
As to the first, I mean that it's so easy to get past you'd scarcely believe it, not that any contempt is meant.
For the second, OK, bang to rights. It's hard not to look at some of the astonishing inept drivers and wonder how they ever passed a test. The sort of people who drive at a steady 40 in a 50 zone, then carry on at exactly the same pace in a 30 zone. The ones who think that you shouldn't overtake because if that speed's good enough for them, it should be good enough for you. These are the people who like to flash you if, gosh, you have the temerity to wake them from their snooze as you go past.
They are not taking away your safe braking distance as has been explained
if they pull in and the resulting distance between me and them is now closer than the recommended braking distance, or 2 seconds if you watched Police Stop! , then they have taken away my safe braking distance and they fail their test.
For the second, OK, bang to rights. It's hard not to look at some of the astonishing inept drivers and wonder how they ever passed a test. The sort of people who drive at a steady 40 in a 50 zone, then carry on at exactly the same pace in a 30 zone. The ones who think that you shouldn't overtake because if that speed's good enough for them, it should be good enough for you. These are the people who like to flash you if, gosh, you have the temerity to wake them from their snooze as you go past.
You're quite young, aren't you?
Are we saying that it's OK for a motorcyclist to cut into my "safe braking distance" but not a car, van or lorry?
And what if it a Honda Goldwing?
I may have alround observation
that I have to keep an eye out in case you are going to overtake me - I don't remember this being taught in the highway code.
When driving, do you rotate your head 360deg on a very regular basis?
The sort of people who drive at a steady 40 in a 50 zone, then carry on at exactly the same pace in a 30 zone
I am not young but this ^^ is something that should force a retest.
driving too slow (40 in a 50 wouldn't count though) is also a test failure.
Sorry, uncalled-for pisstaking on my part. Apologies.
And what if it a Honda Goldwing?
Then it [b]is[/b] a lorry. Just a very large one.
When driving, do you rotate your head 360deg on a very regular basis?
I have never done this, even when not driving...
120-130deg commonly though if wanting to change lanes.
I am not young but this ^^ is something that should force a retest.
Why? I read somewhere that if the driver feels it's acceptable to speed at a level significantly higher than the permitted limit, I think it was at speeds of 100mph+, and they have the ability to make judgements on other road users, and believe that they have full control of the vehicle then this should be considered perfectly normal and acceptable.
It is my choice of whether I obey the limit or not, not some expert hidden away in an office.
And what if it a Honda Goldwing?
Point and laugh.
You're quite young, aren't you?
Ooh, that man's trying to chat me up. Calling me young and everything.
Ooh, that man's trying to chat me up. Calling me young and everything.
Apart from that being an obvious yes, you will find it quite strange when your attitude changes as you get [s]more mature[/s] older.
if they cut in and take my braking distance and cause me to break, they would fail their test.
If they cut you up then they'd fail the test. If they safely manoeuvre into a gap then they would not, even if that results in you having to ease off the loud pedal for a moment.
I don't know if you're being deliberately disingenuous or just confused, but these are two different situations. The times when I'm overtaken, be that by bike or car or lear jet, I very, very rarely have to brake unless they've dived back in directly in front of me and then dropped anchor. You see them coming, slow down a bit, they pass you into the larger gap you've just created, and you re-assume your road position behind them.
I really don't understand why this is difficult or in any way a huge problem, unless you're driving fixated on the tail-lights of the vehicle in front or just pissed that you've been overtaken. Sure, some people drive / ride like tools, but plenty don't.
I'm afraid i'm one of the muppets.
I'm less of one of the muppets than i used to be 🙂 But i got older and had a child/wife, so i've calmed myself down. However many people who've seen me overtake them would argue.
In my defence, i feel 100% in control of my bike even at 140mph, my 140mph is like your 50mph in a car.
It's all about risk assesment, i feel more likely to hurt myself at 10mph at Afan than at 140mph on the roads on my R1's.
Ohh. Lots had happened on this thread since I last looked. As I only have my phone I'll have to make a few posts as I can't copy all that text to quote as easily 🙂
How can you say the layout of the road has nothing to do with whether or not you filter?
What if you get to the front and realise you need to turn left? Or if you get to the front and there's another bike already at the front you'll have to force your way into a line of queuing traffic. There are loads of situations where you shouldn't be filtering and you see bikes jamming their way in at the front of queues every day stopping traffic while they work their way back in.
OK, slightly badly worded on my part, sorry. What I really ment was that KNOWING the layout of the road as someone else said has nothing to do with it. You dont need to know in advance. Not necessary.
If I'm turning left or right at the end it's no problem I'll spot a gap at some point and move over. Can't ever remember getting stuck in the wrong place TBH. But if I did I'd simply carry on the wrong way and sort it put later by turning round or taking a different route.
You're making an issue here where none actually exists. 🙂
In my defence, i feel 100% in control of my bike even at 140mph, my 140mph is like your 50mph in a car.
Nahh. No it's not. 140 on a bike is like 140 on a bike. Nothing like anything at all in a car, apart from basic physics. 🙂
As an extension of that,
"Knowing" a road can give you a false sense of security / overconfidence. You might know about the road but not the diesel spill at the junction.
I'm not saying anyone isn't allowed to do anything. I'm just saying it's inconsiderate and dangerous to overtake where there isn't sufficient space to pull in without forcing people to brake
Here we go again.
If someone overtakes you and pulls into the gap in front which FORCES you to brake then you are too close to the car in front. How does pulling into my previous 50mph/50yd gap FORCE you to break? It doesn't, does it?
As an extension of that,
"Knowing" a road can give you a false sense of security / overconfidence. You might know about the road but not the diesel spill at the junction.
Agreed. 100% correct. You shouldn't let prior knowledge of a road override basic technique. 🙂
How does pulling into my previous 50mph/50yd gap FORCE you to break? It doesn't, does it?
Because I've decided that I need 50 yards to stop safely, me, not you. 🙄
They are not taking away your safe braking distance as has been explained - they will be setting up to use the centre of the road as an escape route in emergancy leaving you with the same amount of space between you and the car in front.
Good explanation from TJ. I was thinking this earlier but I didn't brin it up as I couldnt be arsed explains another thing that nobody would understand.... 😉
How does pulling into my previous 50mph/50yd gap FORCE you to break? It doesn't, does it?Because I've decided that I need 50 yards to stop safely, me, not you.
By still, why is it FORCING you to BRAKE? It's not is it?
I'm going to keep hitting this nail with the same hammer until the nail goes in or the hammer snaps! 🙂
PeterPoddy - Member
They are not taking away your safe braking distance as has been explained - they will be setting up to use the centre of the road as an escape route in emergancy leaving you with the same amount of space between you and the car in front.
druidh - Member
Always assuming that, in the event of something untowards happening, the space in the centre of the road is still clear?
I'm going to keep hitting this nail with the same hammer until the nail goes in or the hammer snaps!
happy banging.
Personally I can do all of the above bar moving left and looking up the inside. But I'm rarely in such a rush I have to move all over the road to desperately get past the next car
Phhhhhh. Some people, the more they type, the dafter they sound. 🙂
No. You in a car CANNOT do all of the above. You cannot pull the same manoeuvres as a bike. You cannot overtake in the same way. You are too big, too slow (hyper cars excepted) and too low down. End. I know this because I drive and ride both. It is a fact. Stone. Cold. Fact.
Re "desperate"
Do you write for the Daily Mail, the Star, or the Sport?
There is absolutely nothing desperate about it. Nothing. It's called using what you have (small size, manoeuvrability and lack of passenger space on one side) to maximise your view of the road and plan your next action. Not it it 'swerving' 'darting' 'wandering' or any other adjective you care to use. It's all nice and smooth and I doubt you'd really notice it happening.
And it's not desperate (on my part personally) because I know, 100%, that I WILL pass you. Wether it's here, now, in a hundred yards, or in 2 miles. So I'm all nice and relaxed about it. I look at the bigger picture (which is a framed portrait of a nice empty road.... 🙂 ) I will be passing. I will choose when based on my own decision, not somebody's grudging 'permission'
If you drop back a bit or move left a bit, thanks for that. If its safe I'll overtake and say thanks as I do. (more and more people are like this I find, refreshingly) if it's not, then I'll go some other time, but at least I know you've seen me. So thanks again.
But I'm Coming past, like it or not, wether you think it's safe or not. That's my choice and prerogative. Sorry if you don't like it but it's one of the three reasons I bought a bike in the first place and why I still have one, namely doing 35,000 miles in a van round the south east for years and being bored stuck in traffic watching bikes filter past. 🙂
druidh - Member
PeterPoddy - Member
They are not taking away your safe braking distance as has been explained - they will be setting up to use the centre of the road as an escape route in emergancy leaving you with the same amount of space between you and the car in front.
druidh - Member
Always assuming that, in the event of something untowards happening, the space in the centre of the road is still clear?
didn't brin it up as I couldnt be arsed explains another thing that nobody would understand
😛
Here I go..!
TurnerGuy - Memberbe aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side
they may pass, and I need to be aware that they are passing so I don't swerve into them but if they cut in and take my braking distance and cause me to break, they would fail their test.
Next?
Turnerguy,
If you spot a motorbike with your excellent all-round observation, why wouldn't you increase your braking gap to accomodate the inevitable overtake?
..oh and as i drive a van that can be a bit slow at times, i will pull in a bit and leave a bigger gap to the vehicle in front to let faster CARS overtake.
when i'm out on my bandit, i'll let cars overtake slow moving trucks etc on the long straights and i'll sit behind, because i know that:
a) they need the space to ovetake, where i do not
b) they are probably not watching me behind, instead being frustrated and looking for the next overtake opportunity of their own.
c) i can overtake them easily and safely at the next opportunity.
just a bit of consideration tbh
I can happily move over the white line to look
If you're doing this coffeeking, you are defiantly part of the problem.
just a bit of consideration tbh
I think that's the point that most (certainly those who ride motorbikes) have been trying to make but it has been lost in the usual STW outraged pedantry 😉
If you spot a motorbike with your excellent all-round observation, why wouldn't you increase your braking gap to accomodate the inevitable overtake?
who said I had
- checking your blind spot is something that most normal drivers should do.excellent all-round observation
I may, and often do, drop back, particularly if I am not already doing the speed limit, but it is not up to me to do that. If I have the minimum braking distance in front of me then, basically, there is no gap to overtake and pull into. In this case the biker should wait to be noticed and let me drop back and create the gap.
If someone overtakes you and pulls into the gap in front which FORCES you to brake then you are too close to the car in front.
now you are just making yourself look silly.
so I have to maintain 2x the minimum safe braking distance just to accommodate the possibility that someone might want to overtake me ?
Are you assuming that I can just ease off the accelerator to get my braking distance back? What if I am travelling down a slope, what if I am driving a diesel that is slow to respond to engine braking?
In those cases I would have to brake.
If I have a 2 second gap in front of me then I might accept a bike/car overtaking and leaving me 1.5 seconds whilst I ease off the accelerator to adjust the gap, but any less than that is unacceptable. i.e. they should put themselves at risk, and not me.
they will be setting up to use the centre of the road as an escape route in emergancy leaving you with the same amount of space between you and the car in front.
that might be less of a crime and I will probably already moved over to the left side of the road, but if something happens who is to say that either the bike wont also move to the left in the accident, or that road conditions will not cause my braking car to move to the right.
As long as my braking distance is not compromised I have no issue with moving over to the left of the lane to let a motorbike pass, and also not much issue with the speed at which they do it. It is not speed that kills, it is dangerous/impatient driving...
I think that the only answer is to mount cameras on your car so when the insurance claims are being made you have evidence that exonerates you from having caused any accident by dangerous driving and slope out of any insurance claims that the bike rider might try to make against you because you couldn't stop in time before hitting them, or even any case that the bikers relatives might try to bring against you as they grieve the family member that was riding the bike.
I am going to order some tomorrow.
http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_1&products_id=111548
200
i thought i was a good driver, no points, no prangs in over 20 years of car/van driving.
then i learned to ride a motorbike and discovered just how much i didn't know about motoring.
my points are:
a)don't think you have nothing left to learn about driving/ riding
b)try to be more aware of the impact your driving behaviour has on others.
c) drive so that you can help others (especially, faster vehicles) make progress also.
d) concentrate, even in queues. the time when there is not much going on is the time when you should be most aware.
now who wouldn't want to spank the tits off this just once?
[img] 
[/img]
What are we talking about?
now who wouldn't want to spank the tits off this just once?
Only the once? Lightweight.
f I have the minimum braking distance in front of me then, basically, there is no gap to overtake and pull into. In this case the biker should wait to be noticed and let me drop back and create the gap.
You are on a wind-up aren't you but just in case you are not, do you actually have a driving license? If you do, it must be a horrendous experience for you just nipping down the shops.
You are on a wind-up aren't you but just in case you are not
why ?
I said minimum braking distance, that's MINIMUM.
What gives you the right to take that margin away from me?
And notice that I said I would accept losing 25% of that gap whilst I adjusted, i.e someone not taking half the gap but putting themselves more at risk than me during the maneuver.
I assume that you are one of those drivers that just cuts across your bow when pulling back in after an overtake.
Why would you assume that?
Unless you've ridden bikes, you simply don't understand the contemptuous ease with which you can get past anything with four wheels, unless you happen across a Veyron on a regular basis. So the question is, why on earth would any sane person sit there in a queue of badly-driven econoboxes all doing 48mph in a 60 zone, when you can do one or two overtakes and get past all ten of the trundling diesel Golfs.OK, they're not all diesel Golfs (quite often it's a Hyundai, driver comatose at the wheel). But just because they don't want to go any faster, why should everyone else wait? If you're in a car you may well not have the acceleration or visibility to get past, but just 'cos someone with a faster vehicle does have that power, why get all grumpy over it? I leave additional space if I look in my mirrors and see bikers, precisely because I drive a 3 tonne truck and can overtake very few people - so I assume that others will want to get past me and the mobile chicane blocking my way.
The idiots who flash past at 120mph leaving no margin for error are fools, obviously, but all of us, regardless of the number of wheels used, can agree with that.
Couldn't agree more. I'm also totally with PP, Cougar, and TJ. What they are advocating is exactly what I do, almost instinctively. If I see a bike's light coming up astern, then I pull slightly left, and lift fractionally off the throttle, giving a bit of clear space for the bike to slot into just left of the white line. He's got a clear line of sight, and I've allowed myself a bit more space between me and whatever's in front. I might even knock it down a gear, just in case I can see a clear window of opportunity down the left hand side and the turbo's already spinning to give me the extra acceleration.
That's nessessary as the 1.9TDi Skoda econobox takes a bit of extra welly to get past the Toyotas, Hyundais, Peugeots, etc, doing 38 in a 60, and narcolepsy in a moving vehicle is dangerous. 😈
then i learned to ride a motorbike and discovered just how much i didn't know about motoring.
The one thing riding taught me was just how bobbins my observational skills had been in a car to date.
Why would you assume that?
because you seem to assume that it is your god given right to overtake and cut down my MINIMUM braking distance.
I was just thinking about saying something like "and if we then had an accident because you had taken away my minimum braking distance it would be my right to own you with bombers", or something like that, and then I remembered that I do actually have a set of Z2 Bombers in the boot of my car right now...
basically everyone is talking about courtesy on the road and I have said that if I see a bike I will often try to accomodate an overtake, but if I am not shown a similar level of courtesy from another driver in not exposing me to extra risk by cutting in and taking my braking distance, then I am going to get pretty hacked off about it.
It appears that donorbikers are pretty effing awesome. Which is good, I don't want any ordinary kidney, heart, liver, etc when I'm having one.
you seem to assume that it is your god given right to overtake and cut down my MINIMUM braking distance.
Do you have some sort of right foot mobility disability which prevents you from adjusting your speed slightly? Does letting someone past you actually affect you in any way whatsoever, other than righteous indignation? Are you actually held up, delayed in any way, otherwise put out?
Chill out, be a bit more tolerant of others, use your mirrors. Look up what 'minimum' means.
TurnerGuy
Have you read ANY of the posts re safe overtaking and adapting to conditions/circumstances while driving?
I am not advocating 'cutting across bows' or squeezing into small gaps and if you cannot accommodate someone in a faster vehicle overtaking you by the simple means of lifting your foot off the pedal for a second or two, then there is something seriously amiss with your driving and attitude.
To be honest, I wouldn't expect anything other than general silliness from a biker, so I adjust my driving to accommodate them...it's easier than getting angry with them. As I said previously, I'd rather someone else had to live with the sight of them flying towards some stationary object at 50 or 60 mph (or even an AWESOME 140mph) having left their mount.
As soon as they're riding on my rear bumper, peeking out looking for that gap to overtake, I just want them out of my way as soon as possible.
Oh, oh, oh...funny one a couple of weeks ago. I'd been saving this up for STW. There was a bunch of them, one of whom was taking it upon himself to berate a few drivers for something (I couldn't tell what, but from some of the responses on this thread, there appears to be a lot they get sandy-vaginitis about) - all the berating was happening on approach to a roundabout, whereupon, he was so busy berating somebody, that he bumped into one of his gaily leather coloured mateys who had stopped. Thankfully, it was just at low speed, so nobody was hurt - did wind my window down so he might hear me laughing though. But he didn't 🙁
OK, slightly badly worded on my part, sorry. What I really ment was that KNOWING the layout of the road as someone else said has nothing to do with it. You dont need to know in advance. Not necessary.
If I'm turning left or right at the end it's no problem I'll spot a gap at some point and move over. Can't ever remember getting stuck in the wrong place TBH. But if I did I'd simply carry on the wrong way and sort it put later by turning round or taking a different route.
You're making an issue here where none actually exists.
That's fair enough. My point was I see a lot of people burn down the outside of a line of completely stationary line of traffic then get to the front where they're blocked by an island for a pedestrian crossing or something so they can't just get to the front to beat the traffic away when lights change. And when they get there they steer their bike in front of someone at 45 degrees and poke the front wheel in so the driver has to let them in.
I, like you, would just carry on in the wrong way or wait if I had to but I think we'd be in the minority.
You may not see this happen too often but I seem to, perhaps it's from driving in London too often.
Sure. But that sort of random nobbery is a different situation to what we're discussing.
There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels and even some on any number of other wheels from 3 upwards (to include all trucks) The difference now is in consequences. Cars are now so safe in comparison with even 10 years ago and bikes are so fast.
Overtaking doesn't bother me as hopefully I am aware of them coming up behind me and can adjust my speed. What bothers me is the tail end Charlie who is so desperate not to lose his mates that he forces into a space that might hold 2 bikes but not his 3rd one. He is the dangerous 1.
Saw a close one with 4 guys filtering up to a 4 way set of traffic lights. They headed up the opposite dual carriageway to filter to the front and nearly got collected by somebody pulling out to overtake a slower car as he turned left onto the dual carriageway. Had he not pulled back in he would have hit al 4 of them. Big dent and poss write off for him but likely broken bones at least for the bikers. Thing was I could see it unfolding as it was an unsafe manoeuvre to be pulling.
Have sat with biker till ambulance arrived after silly bit in a 4x4 took him out on a roundabout. Broken both wrists and just missed the sign with his head.
I would love the speed of a bike but know I don't fancy the consequences of it going wrong though.
There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels.
No arguments here.
Have you read ANY of the posts re safe overtaking and adapting to conditions/circumstances while driving?
reading posts whilst driving is something that I leave to the youngsters...
I am not advocating 'cutting across bows' or squeezing into small gaps and if you cannot accommodate someone in a faster vehicle overtaking you by the simple means of lifting your foot off the pedal for a second or two, then there is something seriously amiss with your driving and attitude.
I have already said that I am fine with someone overtaking me where 1) I have anticipated the move and increased the gap in front of me ready for them to pull into, or 2) they pull into the gap but don't halve it (if it is a minimum gap) but momentarily take the larger share of the risk whilst I make the adjustment.
I do not see why I (and any family in the car) have to be exposed to higher levels of risk just to accommodate whoever is overtaking.
I take it that you don't actually drive a car much nowadays.
It is a continual occurrence on a mway that people pull in front of you leaving only 30% of the gap that was there, even when I might have 10 minimum gaps to the car that previously was in front of me, even when I am in the freakin' slow lane. Or they will pull in front of me last minute to exit the mway, as I am, even though there is no-one behind and I am not exactly dawdling.
It beggars belief.
I don't think there is much wrong with my attitude - I let my far share of cars out at junctions, unless they are a BMW (I drive an alfa so letting one out would be plain wrong), I keep left on the mway when possible and I am not imminently about to overtake someone, I give way to trucks if they want to change lanes, etc.
I cannot actually remember any time where I have been angered by a bike overtaking me - perhaps because I have always anticipated it or just because it is a bike - although bikes weaving from lane to lane and undertaking will hack me off.
Look up what 'minimum' means
what the heck does that mean - it sounds like something from the twenty-twelve series - similar to "There are lots of solutions - the trick is finding one that works".
I don't see why the Reliant Robin owners are getting off with it!bruk - Member
There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels.
To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of ignorance. A. Bronson Alcott
what the heck does that mean
Well, if you looked it up as I suggested, you'd know.
"Minimum" means the smallest, it's not an absolute. Larger values are also acceptable.
I have already said that I am fine with someone overtaking me where 1) I have anticipated the move
So you have a problem when you fail to anticipate it? There's an obvious solution to that.
I don't think there is much wrong with my attitude - I let my far share of cars out at junctions, unless they are a BMW
Then I'd respectfully disagree. (I'm actually assuming you're joking here)
I have a theory that many BMW drivers drive the way they do because of exactly this attitude; it leaves them no other choice. I had a Merc for a while, and found that the only way to make progress was to drive to the stereotype because no-one ever gives you a break or lets you out, ever. Indicating just tips people off so they can get the drop on you and block you in.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Or something.
A. Bronson Alcott
Did he ride a bike or drive a car? It's important.
diesel alfa right?
not a real alfa
not a real alfa driver
Fixed it for you Druidh.
Seen many daft overtakes on the A9 from cars as well. Hedge-hopping we call it as they try and overtake 2 or 3 cars to get closer to the back of the ruddy caravan straining behind some underpowered estate. Best plan sit back wait for the dual carriageway and relax. Think of the ride/climb ahead instead.
Bikes can overtake far quicker and pick off strings of cars. Still can't stop that quickly though and that can cause hem problems.
Your average bike will out-brake your average car, pilot wits notwithstanding.
I take it that you don't actually drive a car much nowadays.
It depends what you call 'much'?
Probably around 8k miles in private car, 3-4k on motorbike and around 20k in 'company car'.
FWIW I see much worse from car drivers than those on motorbikes on a daily basis for the simple reason that, generally speaking, bike riders are considerably more aware of conditions and are much better at reading the road than those who have only ever driven a car.
Have you read ANY of the posts re safe overtaking and adapting to conditions/circumstances while driving?
reading posts whilst driving is something that I leave to the youngsters...
Ahh so that's why so many old folk get lost on the roads regardless of all the sign posts 😆
druidh - Memberbruk - Member
There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels.I don't see why the Reliant Robin owners are getting off with it!
Or these f888ers
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Well here's my view on it. If Coffeeking and Co were to get on the back of the motorbike of the bikesafe instructor we have been out with,he would have a hairy fit. If said police officer was out in plain clothes/bike or car and witnessed me filtering between cars,that have a two second gap between them,while they are driving under the speed limit.. I can tell you now he would be praising me for doing so. As much as you might think that he would probably want to pull me over for a word,or a fine,you have got it all wrong*
*going by the way I described the scenario.
Cougar - Member
Your average bike will out-brake your average car, pilot wits notwithstanding.I think you will find that's not true.
Will I?
I have just ridden 132 miles the long way home from work via Achnasheen,Coulags,Eilan donan castle and up through Glenshiel. I passed 4 cars in total between 7pm and 9.30pm
Move up here, you rarely get cars on the road!
Mmm disagree about braking distances, on perfect dry roads with a great rider on board possibly close but on standard rubbish roads not a chance!
Yes, cars are quicker at braking simply because they brake with two tyres rather than one, and they're not limited by the vehicle trying to flip over.
I've got some figures from the 27th April 2004 Autocar magazine:
Suzuki GSX-R 1000: 100mph - 0 in 5.63 seconds
Lotus Elise 111R - 4.09 seconds
Peugeot 206 Gti 180 - 4.39 seconds
Porsche 911 GT3 - 4.00 seconds (interestingly, the raw physics suggests that a 911 obtains a 50:50 weight distribution whilst braking fully).
The bike is beaten by everything, including a hot hatch. I'm fairly confident a standard hatch would also beat the bike.
So, the 911 is 1.63 seconds quicker under braking from 100-0. Call that about a second from a typical track top speed to a typical track cornering speed, and it can be seen why bikes often fail to live up to the lap times you'd expect round a race track, especially tight race tracks with lots of braking involved.
Actually never seen a dangerous overtake by a unicyclist so they are excluded. 😀
Cool, I sit corrected. Thanks for the info.
No worries Cougar.
Live and most importantly let live. Respect other road users and try to ignore the tossers.
Cougar; I had a Merc for a while, and found that the only way to make progress was to drive to the stereotype because no-one ever gives you a break or lets you out, ever
Very true. I drive a massive fat-cat businessman's Volvo S80D (I got it cheap!). It's GOLD and has leather seats and everything. No bugger will let me out at junctions - many seem to go out of their way to impede my progress.
Never had any such problems in my Focus estate, Honda Accord or my Portuguese army jeep (the latter also never, ever got ticketed, no matter where I parked it).
It does go both ways though. If I borrow my wife's tiny Fiat Uno, everyone pulls out in front of me and cuts me up.
Cars brake with 4,motorbikes with 2.
Oh and Martinxyz - yes the Highlands are fantastic when the road's quiet, but an undiluted nightmare for most of the Summer IME. It just takes one tourist in a hired car to do 20 round all the corners (90% of the road) and then put the pedal to the metal on the rare straights to turn your journey into a frustrating disaster.
Why do they do this? I have tried to rationalise it and I wonder if they feel guilty that they are going so slowly and holding up a queue of traffic, so burn rubber the moment they feel it's safe to do so, thus preventing safe overtaking?
And I can't even begin to talk about singletrack roads and passing places - despite the abundant signage, the 'normal' practices just vanish from March to September.