[Closed] Aspergers - just realised I think I have it?

So I’m an extrovert. I like people. I get energy through conversation. That’s basically the opposite of aspergers, right?

Yep, although we all have different parts of our personalities and see could put you higher on spectrum than others it doesn't sound like you have what would typically be aspergers (not a term that used anymore by the way).
From the 10 key points that would point to it I have around 8 of them and only really realised in my 20's (now 53) and it did at least explained a lot of stuff I went through at school and early work around not fitting in, not being able to hold a conversation, not be able to look people in the eye etc,.

although not on an autistic or asberger spectrum myself my view is that everyone is different. You are who you are. If it helps you to understand yourself and helps others to understand you than a 'label' can be helpful.
I'm dyslexic, having that label has been helpful at times (especially at school).

I guess it’s perfectly rational that I could just be an asshole. I’m perfectly normal but inconsiderate and egotistical who puts himself before even thinking about anyone else.

Maybe that’s the point. It doesn’t matter what the label is/is not, just recognise my limitations and find ways to be better. I can’t remember things which aren’t important to me so I make lists. I ask the missus to write down what she wants and she refuses as she wants me to work it out and stop being spoon fed. It’s an issue but I’ll work out a way at some point I’m sure.

Maybe I just need to work harder at not being an asshole.

A lot of people suggest I'm on the spectrum. They might well be right but I really don't see what difference it makes to anything, or anyone (even me) to have that confirmed or denied officially.

“you must be autistic, why do you understand me, I can’t understand you, why don’t you see these things which need doing” etc etc

That sounds familiar...

I was literally diagnosed a few weeks ago and I'm 35. Unlike yourself, relationships aren't my forte and have always struggled keeping partners as well as keeping in close contact with friends and family. My diagnosis didn't come as a surprise to me as I ticked all the boxes in terms of being an Aspie and I already have dyslexia and ADHD. But my diagnosis did come as a surprise to a lot of my family and friends.

Have you done an online AQ test ( https://psychology-tools.com/test/autism-spectrum-quotient )? If not defiantly worth a go. Unfortunately the NHS waiting list for adults wanting a diagnosis is around an 18 month wait.

I am in a similar position in that I realised I had strong autistic traits later in life. I came to the realisation that actually there was little point in getting a formal diagnosis as by now I had my coping mechanisms in place and was in a secure place in my life. Formal diagnosis or even realisation may well have helped me when i was younger but now? Pointless and taking away scarce resources from those who really need them

I do not think it right to say " I might have asbergers / autism" for people like us tho - it devalues those who really struggle. I now prefer " I appear to have some autistic traits"

Autism is now seen as a spectrum disorder and we are all somewhere on that spectrum although many of us are on or very close to the neurotypical end

But my diagnosis did come as a surprise to a lot of my family and friends.

Mine was pretty much the opposite way round - many friends were laughing at the idea I did not realise. apparently they all knew i was a bit odd / weird. why did no one tell me?

Just did that test. 40 out of 50 and says range is 33-50 indicates autism.

The thing is, I’m not sure whether I answered them honestly or not.

For example, one question was (paraphrased) “I don’t like being spontaneous, agree or disagree”. I like doing stuff spontaneously because otherwise it’s a huge amount of planning I don’t have interest in. But if someone else says “let’s do this” I’m usually
Up for it. So, I like it but I don’t drive it. Is that agree or disagree? I also work in a reactive maintenance world so am now accustomed to my routine changing so it’s not as uncomfortable as it was, so it no longer upsets me but is that because I have coping mechanisms?

I think I am on the spectrum but I guess the question is should I share that info or will it be badly received

The missus says I might be autistic but if I say “I am” will she react badly? Will she think “well he’ll never change as he’s wired differently so we are doomed”? Will she be disappointed and feel betrayed/deceived into loving me? Now she’s stuck involved with someone who isn’t “normal”? Or will it be a realisation and make her less frustrated by my annoying traits?

She liked you before either of you had even considered the idea right, so if she's really the sort to ditch you over a diagnosis, is that a healthy relationship? There is no such thing as "normal" IMO/IME, but I would seek a professional assessment in the first instance.

Most people are actually quite adaptable when they discover something like this about a loved one, it's just new information that both you and your family could benefit from having. You'll still be the same person.

It sounds like the stigma of a diagnosis/named condition is the biggest worry (possibly that inflated ego you mentioned at work?). Honestly the people who's opinions matter won't care, anyone who has a problem isn't worth continuing to know... And the advantage of knowing if you have a specific condition is being able to understand it better, not knowing just means you're never quite sure.

I guess it’s perfectly rational that I could just be an asshole. I’m perfectly normal but inconsiderate and egotistical who puts himself before even thinking about anyone else.

It wasn’t until nearly my 40’s when I realised I was a narcissistic  materialistic ****.  It took a lot of soul searching and thinking really hard about what people were telling me to realise why.  I won’t go into all the details here but because I’ve spent my whole life working hard for myself and my gains and I’d let the achievements and the external praise continue to expand my ego - it was all about me.   Over the past few years I’ve been through a steady journey of change and I’m really happy to understand the reality of the middle aged very average family man that I am.

I’d always known I was different but didn’t know why. I spent my late twenty’s trying to be mad Jack McMad the Drinking, Clubbing hero but all I did was wrack up a load of debt.  Could/should of I have put a label on it as a mental illness?  I don’t know but I don’t think so, I think I was just steered down a path due to circumstances and - being an natural introvert - didn’t have a circle of family of friends to tell me earlier about what an idiot I was becoming.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">TDLR, I’m not suggesting people should not examine the possibilities of illness etc or downplaying the Op, I just think sometimes we are coloured by our surroundings, and people slightly left of centre need a bit of guidance at times.</span>

@rickbst170 so the way I did it was to do 3 of the same tests within the space of a month. I suffer from depression and high anxiety so my mood changes regularly. My final result was 47 out of 50.

Feel free to PM me if you want.

I went through a not dissimilar process a year/18 months ago.

My significant ex used to make reference to my ‘autism’

I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m on the spectrum/neurodivergent on the basis that if I view my life through that particular prism then I can make ‘sense’ of things. One of the main things that helped me work through things was a book Autism and Asperger Syndrome in Adults by Dr Luke Beardon. It’s a pretty slim volume and not a psychiatric text book and easy to read. I had a lot of ‘oh, that seems familiar...’ as I read it and highlighted text that had particular resonance for me which turned out about 30-40% of the whole meat of the book.

There is definitely a genetic component Nd. Looking back I can see some pretty obvious traits in my dad, talking with my brother we both ‘self-identify’ (and he works in the mental health) and my nephew is full blown/non-verbal/unable to look after himself.

I don’t view what I have as a disability, just difference.

Not sure what good a diagnosis would do (other than confirmation) but if/when things normalise I will probably seek one myself...

I’m mid-fifties.

39/50 but then i maintain most men exhibit some form of autism, or autistic traits, its the way we do things.
I have i pretty much dislike most people. No girlfriends, a few friends but only a handful. Lots of cycling acquaintances though. Just tried to save a lady who had a heart attack on wsy home, she was having chest compressions and i have had some firdt aid training so i stopped. So i cant be totally oblivious to other people.

OP. You just sound clever with a
focused, analytical mind and have fitted into an area where you excel.
Digging holes in the road, yes of course you could but you wouldn't enjoy it and it wouldnt stimulate you so you might not be the best person to drive a digger, for example.

I think I am on the spectrum but I guess the question is should I share that info or will it be badly received

It can go either way. I’ve been pretty much ‘out’ about it, I pretty much had to tell my boss at the time as I was suffering from anxiety issues (and displaying signs of selective mutism) that if they weren’t resolved would have lead me to getting signed off. But the people I work with have been mostly sympathetic/understanding (and to be honest had already been compensating for certain things ie I can come across as blunt/abrupt/aggressive at times). My old boss pushed me to OH assessment (bu they were sympathetic to my side of things) and it didn’t really go any further. But I’ve a mate who was diagnosed through work (HFA ADD) and had a negative experience as a result. He ended up moving on from that particular job...

The book I cited earlier has an interest section about disclosure (remember that once that genie is out of the bottle you can’t put it back in...)

ETA: I scored 37 or 38 on the AQ test...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Autism-Asperger-Syndrome-Adults-Beardon/dp/1847094457

Thanks all. This is really useful insight.

I read this and from the second paragraph titled “consequences for conversations” I see at least 90% of those traits.

https://www.theneurotypical.com/conversation-with-an-adult-with-hfa.html

Then I read this and it hit me, this is exactly what our challenges have been about during lockdown and perhaps the commute each day previously enabled me to process things better. I also now recognise I need sleep or I’m really really useless.

https://sachscenter.com/confused-by-your-man-he-might-have-aspergers/

Finally I read this blog and that’s the one which made me think “shit, I’ll never really be who I perceive she wants me to be” and it made me anxious about having further conversations about it all.

https://autisticnotweird.com/just-found-out/

The info graphic showing positive traits is exactly me 100%.

Also, no friends anymore but I put that down to being choiceful. I accidentally had kids young (22 then 24) so lost touch with friends. I made friends at work but always ended up managing them so chose not to befriend potential subordinates - to be potentially everyone - anymore. I’ve since moved away and have lots of nice things which my old mates don’t (I’m from a fairly poor background and my friends are still all skint) so don’t think they’ll want to do what I want to. They all just want to get wasted still but I grew up and barely drink (we all used to be tearaways and they still are from what I see on Facebook). I don’t mind though, I guess I don’t really feel like there’s a benefit other then when I need someone to talk to to process ideas.

**** knows. Need to go think about anything else. Thanks again though, really really helping.

As regards telling folk. I have as one of my coping mechanisms that i always rigidly tell the truth because i cannot discern when a polite white lie is in order. this can shock folk but people I am working with I explain why i do this.

It also allows people to use the positve aspects. detailed planning being one. I tell folk at work that I need firm direction but set me on a task and it will be done well - but that I cannot chose which tasks to give priority to

I do feel quite strongly however that people in our sort of position should not use up the scarce resources available as there are people in much more difficult situations waiting for diagnosis.

the test for me being " what will a formal diagnosis acheive?" If I had had it when younger perhaps it could have prevented me taking promotions which I was bad at and which made me unhappy but now? Pointless. all a formal diagnosis would acheive is giving me a label

I have some autistic traits, and so does my wife maybe more so and with slightly different things. Things like noises / rattles in a car really bug me, she doesn't notice.
She likes to have everything meticulously planned and listed, I can't remember the last time I wrote a list.
Neither of us really like people that much.

Our profession appears to attract people with autistic traits & OCD / the recruitment process looks for them - I'm not sure anyone has ever actually looked in to it properly but it's something we joke about.

I’m open to seeing a counsellor because I think it could be interesting. I’m very open too, with everyone which is sometimes an issue in some settings.

That said, I don’t think I need a test to validate anything. Knowing what the root cause is (even self diagnosed) feels like it’s sufficient to allow me to work out how to be better at stuff. It sounds like I have a predisposition to certain outcomes from situations so now I recognise I should not just act on them and need to consider whether that outcome will be perceived as normal. Diagnosis from a professional isn’t necessary

although not on an autistic or asberger spectrum myself my view is that everyone is different

I find this outlook strange, if here is a slidin scale spectrum for this sort of thinking, then it means that we are all on it at some level, just some are higher up than others

(As an aside, I just scored 27 in that AQ test.  While I was doing it I was thinking about how people describe me;

Work & athlete: Logical, professional, driven, reliable, hard working, focused diplomatic, difficult to read

Social: Awkward, anti-social, naive, moody, selfish, focused, irritable, Dry SOH, unwittingly cross boundaries, a step too far.

An interesting morning, on the social piece if I go somewhere with people e.g a Club Ride, I find that unless I'm tired I have to work quite hard at conforming to everyones else social standards - observing my place sort of thing. I'm wondering that I have a selfish introspective ego still lock inside me and have developed a socially acceptable "front".  Blimey, more personal development work to do to find the real me!)

just scored 44/50, dont know what to do with that though

Tagnut69 - do nothing until you have 2hrs free to think it though. It’ll get it the way (see how I haven’t put my phone down for 2hrs yet have 12 jobs to do today).

It’s kind of nice to type what’s in my head instead of proof read and alter every line. That’s a refreshing new feeling - it’s ok to say what comes out on this thread. Doesn’t matter if I’m blunt as that’s what you all do anyway

I scored 6, and I would describe myself as a pretty normal/ average adult UK male.

If that helps at all....

I will also say the following.

It is surprising how over represented white men are on the autistic scale, It is always surprising how women an over come the testing (as they seem to be able to, or perhaps have to) develop coping strategies. Also, finally, academic prowess is not a common feature of autism....

Grenade thrown,  I'm off to the shops

21 here although people think im on the spectrum due to my need to organise and label things. TJ makes some sense, im nearly 50 and have become more mindful of my social inadequacies and have developed skills to improve that part of me. Maybe if I'd done that test 20 years ago I would scored higher.

I'm also not sure having a diagnosis is very useful unless you're extreme, much of the rest it comes down to being a bit crap at life which in reality most of us are in one way or another. Being diagnosed as a bit this or that is no more useful than someone telling you you're an arse in social settings. Having a diagnosis doesnt excuse behaviour other people find objectionable.

Again TJ is right, everyone trying to get a diagnosis to explain their personality traits undermines the severity of peoples conditions on the extremes who really need outside help to function.

@nickc your talking absolute bollocks! Let's see your evidence.

Again TJ is right, everyone trying to get a diagnosis to explain their personality traits undermines the severity of peoples conditions on the extremes who really need outside help to function.

Whilst I am not unsympathetic to the argument (there certainly isn’t sufficient mental health resource available full-stop), where do you stop being deserving of help? There is prevalence to suicide, anxiety and other MH related issues. The average age of death for someone with ASD/ASC, according to a Swedish study, is 54 (compared to 70 in a matched control)...

Article in New Scientist by Simon Baron-Cohen "Why autism and invention are intimately related".

talking absolute bollocks!

It’s pretty much acknowledged that there’s a failure to identify girls (and women) early (and that they have to develop coping strategies accordingly)... Presumed societal.

Scored 15 on that test so basically it fits in with my assessment that I'm occasionally a self-centred asshole.

Maybe for the rest of us who feel like we don't fit and there's possibly a screw loose somewhere or something, who every so often wonder if we're 'on the spectrum' there should be a just an average bloke test? So it can reassure us we're on the spectrum of being just an average bloke or at worst, unique or laugh to see a pudding crawl, well yes Mum I would actually?
edit: for coherence.

where do you stop being deserving of help?

deserving is a bit of a loaded word. I would say if your quirks and traits are causing you significant anguish or issues in your life then seek a diagnosis. Think " what will the diagnosis achieve?"

i cam to the conclusion that for me there was no point despite little doubt I have those autistic traits because I have my comping mechanisms in place, I have a good friendship circle and I am about to retire.

A diagnosis can also sometimes act against you in that you have a ready made excuse for being an arse.

Diagnosis at school would have helped me no doubt. Even in my 20s. Now it would merely be an exercise in ego without and tangible gains

A diagnosis can also sometimes act against you in that you have a ready made excuse for being an arse.

Equally, I know someone that if they had a diagnosis would have been able to use the discrimination card to stop a pretty aggressive ‘constructive dismissal’ attempt at their work.

I guess I’m in the I’d like to know as if I’m autistic then I can explain shit/make sense of my life camp.

If I’m not then just what the **** is wrong with me...

Metalheart.

I came to accept that " I have some strong autistic traits" and reading up on this made a lot of sense to me. Indeed one thing I read was a lightbulb moment where I suddenly realised that these autistic traits explained many of the odd interactions. a lot of anguish and soul seaching over a year or two and now I have reached a point of (once again) knowing who I am and most of the anguish has passed

sounds like we are in similar places overall but maybe I am a year or two further down the line.

your talking absolute bollocks!

There's loads of evidence, if you care to look. I'm not suggesting autism isn't a thing, but...Rates amongst the general population (even with increased prevalence of testing and awareness) is less than 2%. Autism is diagnosed in black people up to 20% less than white people and up to 65% less in other BAME groups, There are 4 males for every 1 female diagnosed, and up to 40% of people with autism are likely to have severe intellectual impairments, rather than exceed the average.

These are the facts around autism...The truth is, if you find yourself repeatedly being accused of being a socially maladjusted ****-bag with little of no regard for the feelings of others, and you're a white man with higher than average intelligence...It's more likely than not, that you are in fact a socially maladjusted ****-bag with little or no regard to the feelings of others, rather than some-one bravely suffering with a pathology

I went to Curious Dog at the theatre. At the end Mrs said ‘wow what d’ya think of that’ and I replied ‘seems pretty normal really’. Yep I’m on the spectrum but never diagnosed. Life is good and I generally get on with most people, but we all have our traits and obsessions. Unless it’s a real burden be happy.

Metalheart - PM me if yo want to chat off forum about this.

These are the facts around autism…The truth is, if you find yourself repeatedly being accused of being a socially maladjusted *-bag with little of no regard for the feelings of others, and you’re a white man with higher than average intelligence…It’s more likely than not, that you are in fact a socially maladjusted *-bag with little or no regard to the feelings of others, rather than some-one bravely suffering with a pathology

I was with you on the facts, but you lost me when you called me (and several other people on this thread) a socially maladjusted ****-bag... nice display of regard for other people’s feelings.

Looks like you’re suffering from Neurotypical Syndrome...

Nice touch with the pathology bit.

PM me if yo want to chat off forum about this.

Cheers, I’m good thanks (worked through most this with the help of some aspie friends about a year back).

Appreciate the offer though.

sound

I scored 40 out of 50 on that test, which might explain a lot

You are me with a violin (I was planes and computing). What will you do with a diagnosis? Do you ever think “how do they know that” when somebody reads a situation involving people and interactions, rather than just facts and logic? That’s my standard scoring of how I am.

I filled in the autism spectrum quotient and scored off the scale. My wife is the opposite, so we are average. She filled it in on my behalf, not believing my score, I was still over the threshold! As I said, how will a diagnosis help with your daily life?

I know this isn’t aimed at me

how will a diagnosis help with your daily life?

But, 18 months/a year ago I was this. Now, I guess I’d just like to know... (otherwise I’m a ‘self-identifier’... if that makes sense). But practically? There isn’t funding for something to actually help is there, so in that sense, nothing.

38/50. I know I'm not NT, but I didn't expect to be that far along.

49/50 for me.
Although I did go to a special school from 3-5 years, couldn’t hold a pencil the right way around before starting infants school, ive somehow ended up with a foundation degree and have a well paid job.
I was never diagnosed as autistic just assumed by all my teachers and parents through life. I work on trains (not that I’m a spotter) but I can remember the routes and timetables of the trains on my network even though I don’t need to, I’ve not made a conscious effort to learn it.
I’ve got no idea what I’d do if I had a diagnosis, nothing would change 🤷🏻‍♂️

For some perspective, this is: An Internet forum. For people obsessed by bikes. Just saying. Maybe I have some self-awareness after all 😉

The older I get the more convinced I am that all men are on the spectrum, some are just further along it.

There’s definitely an element of using a diagnosis to explain selfish behaviour and lack of empathy for others and that small element can overshadow people who would really benefit from some help.

I think women get a pretty poor deal around this problem. Here’s an interesting and enlightening R4 programme about camouflaging and other ways women are expected to cope silently:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5ksLlzTkhpd8vtb76VYGCmg/what-it-s-like-to-learn-you-re-autistic-later-in-life

Wife and I both score highly, but are very different. I plan things, including mental preparations for social stuff, and am reasonably introvert. Wife is spontaneous, avoids commitments, always late, and more egocentric than me.
Through my daughter's diagnosis, I realised I share many and more traits of what was Asperger's. My wife however is, at 50 discoverd that she may have some autistic traits, but is undergoing a ADHD assessment. May be worth looking into too, it's not what most folk think it is.

There’s a saying in Nd circles that if you’ve met one person with autism, well, you’ve met one person with autism...

In this specific case, we are all unique little snowflakes ❄️ (my counsellor told me so... mind you, she also called me a slippery fish... 🤔)

@metalheart or anyone here, I was wondering if you have used either hypnotherapy or meditation to help with you Asperger's? I have done hypno in the past for phobias but nothing towards my ASD.

At the risk of being self indulgent this is where I am at now and the useful things I have learned:

The things you struggle with - learn coping strategies and include your friends and partners and even work colleagues in this. I sometimes go off on a tangent ( and don't understand I am at a tangent) or miss the point of something or misunderstand peoples intentions. Coping strategies are asking for clarification / repeat back until I am sure I have got it right and along with that giving people permission to go " whoa stop - you are off on one again" and that I then have to accept that without question. so my partner and friends will now not just think " TJs being weird again" but will tell me because they now know I will not take offense and will act upon it. My answer to them usually is " Oh am I? I'd better sit down and shut up then"

Another one is anxiety in airports around being late and missing flights which is both unpleasant for me ( and my other half) and has lead us to spend many an unneeded hour sitting around in the airport. Coping strategy is to tell my other half the anxiety is building and then for her to take charge which I then have to trust.

The other aspect is relish the good parts. Detailed planning being mine. I used to think everyone did this and only recently realised its rather beyond what most people do to the point of being obsessive. Example being I hope to go to Aus for a road trip in a couple of years. I have already worked out what car I need, where the dealers are and what equipment I need. Relish the positives and use them. Good bosses will use this aspect of my personality as well if they know its there - so tell them.

Even in the first sentence of this post is a coping mechanism just for here. I am not sure how appropriate this is hence that first sentence!

I do still find it odd that my friends knew I was weird but I had no idea. 🙂

Morning all.

Thank you all for contributing! Definitely helps with perspective.

I’ve done a lot of thinking and can answer a few questions I’ve seen (one which seems to have been deleted too).

1) “perhaps you are just a self centred asshole - a lot of middle aged white men with egos are”. Now deleted. And

2) “why would a diagnosis help you”

I think these are intrinsically linked. Maybe I am an asshole. That means I knowingly make decisions to the detriment of others for my personal gain. Whether this is consciously or subconsciously I could be a bad person. Perhaps I don’t have enough regard for others, or simply hold my own worth in such regard I don’t care who I hurt. This makes me a bad person.

Or...there is an issue with my brain that means I do things which come across as asshole moves but actually we’re with the best intentions and due to ignorance/inability to see the impact from other people’s shoes.

That means a diagnosis is helpful - it would tell me to stop beating myself up for being an asshole because it’s not my fault and it’s a neurological issue. It’s still an issue, don’t get me wrong but it makes it ok to find another way to solve it. If I’m not ASC then I am an asshole and need to work on more traditional things to stop being an asshole. Like listen to people more, think about myself less etc. If I am ASC then listening isn’t going to fix it, so looking for patterns in social cues or doing more research into the subject will help.

I guess I’m saying both outcomes make me seem an asshole but one should be punished and the other should be accepted and worked around without guilt or remorse. So a test would help me personally if I went down that route.

That said, I think I’ve seen enough data now for me to forgive myself and accept I need different solutions so I don’t need a formal test. I’ve forgiven myself so that’s enough.

Next up, how to move forwards. I don’t think that for now I need to tell anyone. I need to understand more about ASC and educate myself and my immediate family. A label is scary for other people. It changes things. Nothing here is changing other than increased acceptance and willingness to work through things differently. So I don’t need a label at least for now, I need to get them all to understand I need to do things in different ways to give them what they need. If I can get them to accept that point and accept that my ASC is different from the next man, and the next, then I’m not like rain man, I’m still me but stop berating me for forgetting to show you I love you with kisses, or forget to do a load of laundry. Instead give me a list of things with times and due dates ans we will all be happier.

So what? Well for now I’m more comfortable with myself, have let go of some guilt and look forwards to sensible conversation about how we do things differently to achieve more successful outcomes. I don’t need a diagnosis and I don’t need a label. I need to educate myself and family about what works better and execute those ideas. Actually, as I type
I’ve realised it probably doesn’t event need a conversation. I’ll just slowly research what works well and implement those things without conversation. Then let the positive outcome speak for themselves and suggest other nee ways to achieve whatever it is that hasn’t been working. Though I guess everyone should
Do that, ASC or not. If something isn’t working try something else instead of repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome. A smart guy with mad hair said that once didn’t he?

Hope this makes sense. Really appreciate your insights everyone. I feel 100 times better today.

Ps I’m not actually an asshole. I’m really nice and try really really really hard. And outwardly I don’t seem that different so I look “normal” to most people. This whole thing is about my own realisation that I’m different but noone else notices so I can’t be that bad.

Cheers

Interesting to read everyone's experiences and views.

Can I ask has anyone found their "symptoms" worsening as they get older?

43/50 on the test btw.

The anxiety in airports thing for me has certainly got worse until recently when the coping strategies have eased it a lot.

Since reading this thread last night, speaking to the missus and taking 4 or 5 tests online It's looking highly likely that i've probably got some fairly heavy autistic traits.

For years I've had depression, which was then diagnosed as general anxiety disorder, which was then diagnosed as OCD, which I've kinda hung on to for the last 12 years. Once I said autism/aspergers to the wife last night and explained the test, she almost left scorch marks in the carpet how fast she agreed. Her best friend has two kids, one with autism and she said she saw a lot of the symptoms in her friends daughter that she sees in me.

I know none of this is a diagnosis or will it make any difference to my Sunday, but as someone who almost requires validation in a diagnosis, i may look into this more and have a word with the doctor at some point.

Two things:

1) The one person who needs to accept who you are is you. You don't appear to have done that and any label, name or diagnosis isn't going to change this, it's not a magic bullet.

People - Aspies and NTs alike - are usually pretty poor at introspection. If there's things you don't like about your behaviour then work on that, but don't be striving to march to someone else's drum. It's exhausting, near-impossible and if you are on the spectrum then that's one of your superpowers that you're suppressing.

2) It sounds to me like you're not the one in the relationship that has the issues. "I'm not telling you, work it out" is the approach of a narcissist and if you're scared that she'll leave you if you get a diagnosis then either you're massively overthinking it / overworrying about it or you're better off rid. A definition won't (directly) make you a different person, you'll still be as equally on the spectrum or not as you were prior, and either she loves that person or she doesn't.

It is always surprising how women an over come the testing (as they seem to be able to, or perhaps have to) develop coping strategies.

The majority - as close to "all" as makes no odds - of research into Asperger's / Autism has been around boys / men. Autism in women can present differently and it's very poorly recognised, let alone understood.

These are the facts around autism…

Assuming for the sake of argument that these are actually facts, they are facts around rates of diagnosis of ASD, not incidence.

57 years old and have been Aspergers driven most my life, officially diagnosed by my wife.... although i have non of the social issues many Aspergers people have.

My Aspergers has been useful over the years, Education, business, family,loyalty and my wife recognises that it has supported our family hugely.

However now the kids have gone, business ticks over, well lets just say my Aspergers comes up short in creating an ongoing relationship with my wife, i am actually not fit for purpose anymore and i get a lot of grief for "not seeing things" being a typical Aspie..

I can not help what i am and i know there are a lot of blogs written by women with Aspergers partners and how miserable it is, at times i feel its like telling a blind person to just "look" i simply dont see things.

As i have got older my limited coping strategies have all but disappeared partially due to not needing to bother.

And for the record i dont understand the fuss around Christmas birthdays, anniversarys - typical Aspergers.

I do think that men with Aspergers are vilified and if i had dyslexia i wouldn't be getting bollocked because i can't spell.

Again,

A failing of seeing things or being 'fit for purpose' is not your fault. It's who you are. If that's not acceptable to your partner then the deficit is theirs. Getting grief for this is abuse, it's no more appropriate than ragging on a one-legged man for limping. Stop apologising, you're old and ugly enough to grab it with both hands.

I am so badly done with people trying to "change" other people. Encouraging someone away from a destructive heroin addiction is one thing, telling them their personality is wrong is quite another.

You can't help what you are. We can't help what we are. But ****, be proud of it rather than ashamed. It's taken a lot of time and a lot of work to get to where I am but if I had a do-over I wouldn't change it for the world.

Own it. It's awesome. And Normies are weird.

Assuming for the sake of argument that these are actually facts, they are facts around rates of diagnosis of ASD, not incidence.

Excellent point, well made. Diagnosis out with white males is poor as this is where the resource is, like most things, mainly targeted.

Neurotribes (the Steve Silberman book) identifies the ‘autism epidemic ‘ in the Uk as a reaction to Thatcherism and a method of getting kids help that they needed, and boys always first in the pecking order...

But, calling it a disorder kind of partially destroys the rest of your argument. Ah, you’re ill so you need treatment... I’ve a nephew that has definite ‘impairment’ (non-verbal, needs constant supervision, destructive, and will be off in a flash given half a chance). You can see the intelligence behind his eyes, he definitely understands. But that is the more ‘extreme’ end of the spectrum. Advancement of one end can have ramifications on the other... 😔

Sorry, I’m rambling.

This makes me laugh though... the institute for the study of the neurologically typical

http://erikengdahl.se/autism/isnt/

I also want the ‘I’m not just weird, I’m autistic’ badges as a t-shirt... 🤪🤣

I can not help what i am and i know there are a lot of blogs written by women with Aspergers partners and how miserable it is, at times i feel its like telling a blind person to just “look” i simply dont see things.

this, very much

"Wasn't it Descartes who said; I am what I am?"
"No, it was Popeye the Sailor Man!"

Personally.

Spent a long time in my 20s trying to fit in (which was a predictable failure). The only good thing to come of that was genuinely realising who I was and eventually learning to be happy with it.

edit, not the only thing I guess because by then I also had picked up a bunch of coping strategies for dealing with stuff

knowing about ASD would have helped speed up the process of developing those

If there’s things you don’t like about your behaviour then work on that

Yep, and it helps to have partner/friend/parent/anyone who can be honest with you and tell you how you are behaving so you can then modify behaviour to better fit in with the norms of society (assuming you want to)
For example, I can now even do small talk as over the years I have forced myself into it and it isn't too bad now (although wife still laughs at some of my efforts) and it just makes social encounters a lot easier than how I was until my 20's when I would just be staring at my hands and not saying a word (I was always just seen as rude and antisocial)
I am however still brutally honest and can't lie which is sometimes good and sometimes bad.
I still can't deal with noisy surroundings/people at times and have to leave the room
And I still avoid social situations of more than 1 or 2 people (when I was young the social situations usually involved alcohol which was the key thing that helped!)

I was lucky that I fell into jobs where objectivity and analytical skills are the key part and the social side is not so important but I constantly have to ensure I keep a lot of traits in control as I know they are not exactly helpful.

Cougar. If there are things that your traits lead you to do that upset people or that make social interactions difficult then surely its not unreasonable to look for ways to decrease the upset?

I have certainly got worse over the last 10 years since first kid came along. before that the wife and I both had careers but just after the boy came along the contract I was working on ended and it was easier for the wife to go back to work, now with 2 kids both at school I find my self rattling around the house, all the time in the world sheds full of bikes but no time to get out.

Assuming for the sake of argument that these are actually facts, they are facts around rates of diagnosis of ASD, not incidence.

Sure. Look, I'm the PM of a GP practice that has a DES for a supported-living village. The village houses folks with all sorts of impairments, from physical to mental and with all forms of diagnosis and age ranges. The few folk with a diagnosis of AD we look after are by and large; non verbal, have extreme physical limitations, exhibit limited social interaction/ awareness, and have extreme distress reactions (spitting, feces throwing) if they are upset. These folk have Autism.

The vest majority of adult white men (and it's nearly always white middle aged men) that go to see their GPs with an SD of mild autism, are mostly in fact either a. suffering from a different disorder (anxiety narcissism, social anxieties, OC disorders) which has similarities/ co-diagnosis as mild AD b. have a mild-moderate social maladjustment from childhood (mostly because of; under/inappropriate/over socialisation, combined with poor or inadequate parenting) But it's really hard to find online SD tools for anxiety narcissism, (for instance) so folk go and find what there is, and what there is, is sites that tell you you have mild AD

Now, as science is discovering there are all sorts of groups of adults that have undiagnosed disorders, but  the overall rates of AD in adults is still less than 2% of the whole population, about the same as the rates of other personality disorders...Which leads us onto the other important part of this, and please, don't think I'm having a go, I'm not, but the SD of low or ,mild AD traits can be inappropriate for you for all sorts of reasons. For instance, look at this list of indicators of undiagnosed ADHD in adults

• more severe impairment in social and emotional communication
• characteristically restrictive behavior patterns and special interests,
• A detail-oriented perceptual style
• lack of volatility of thought and behavior,
• more severe impairment of communicative modes of expression, and
• a rarer tendency toward disorganization.

Seem familiar? sound like anyone you know who's SD themselves with mild AD or Asperger's?  Or how about...

Compulsive disorder?

The manifestations of compulsive personality disorder consist of an intense preoccupation with order, lists, and formalities and an emphasis on peripheral details at the expense of flexibility and openness. As a result, the sufferers’ social competence may be massively impaired. Their social contact behavior is characterized by formalism, distance, and strict adherence to rigid notions of morality and values (e1, e9). Excessively high performance standards, perfectionism, a disproportionate inclination to self-criticism, and agonizing indecisiveness when the customary rules and values do not apply are all features of compulsive personality disorder that typically are not seen in persons with Asperger syndrome.

Or Social-Anxiety disorders?

The category of social anxiety disorders contains social phobia and avoidant personality disorder (e5). The main feature of social anxiety disorders is an intense fear of situations where the affected person occupies the center of attention, which leads to the development of strategies for keeping out of such situations. In the extreme case, there may be total withdrawal from social contact. The root cause is a deep-seated fear of criticism and negative judgment by others. Persons with these disorders often have longstanding social behavioral inhibitions, e.g., avoidance of eye contact and reduced communicative expression from childhood onward (11). Such persons’ inadequate emotional perception is characterized by the selective perception of social cues connoting a negative assessment, e.g., rejection or disdain (e6). When they face less social stress, e.g., within the family, they can usually succeed at recognizing the emotions of others

Right, so going to a random online site and SDing yourself and coming to a conclusion about "who/what you are" is probably not in your best interests. Getting a diagnosis by a trained specialist will probably provide you with some strategies and tools that will (in all likelihood) ease some of your anxieties and help you cope, but only if you know what it is you've "got" in the first instance...

TL;DR Online self diagnosis is not what you should aim for, go and see a professional who in likelihood can help.

Anndd taking off my professional hat for a moment...High IQ/Low EQ is not an indicator of a disorder, OP just because you learned violin and was quite prolific don't mean a thing, my partner was a national competition grade pianist back in Canada when she was 12, she's not mildly AD, my brother was grade 8 at classical guitar at 14, he's not mildly AD either, although he can be an asshole (this is a joke...)

Having to go back and edit the formatting is a “feature” right?

I've only read the opening post, but thought I'd share my thoughts.

I had a bit of a 'moment' the other week where a colleague who has ADD described her symptoms to me, and realised everything she said also described me to a tee. Cue me feeling quite sensitive and scared by the thought of having a 'condition' (not sure if thats the right word!) to think about. What does it mean? Is there something wrong with me? Do I need meds? etc etc etc.

After talking to my partner about it, we came to a few conclusions:

- ADD, Aspergers, autism etc... all of these things are a spectrum. Every person on the planet has behaviours and tendencies that relate to all of them, just to a different level. At what point does a trait become extreme enough to be classified as a condition? Thats up to you
- If you have coping mechanisms and ways to manage it without it impacting your life significantly, then continue to do so, and self-manage it and speak to others or research on other coping mechanisms. If it's having a significant impact then perhaps there are other things that can help (meds etc). It doesn't always mean it's a condition, just the quirks of being you.
- If you feel like thats the case, speak to a doctor, they are here to help.
- Lockdown. All of my 'symptoms' have been amplified by being generally fed-up with lockdown and stressed with work. The world isn't normal at the moment, and that will affect everyone on some level. I'm quite confident the behavioural things that I show that are bothering me will return to normal and be non-problematic when the world moves back to normal and I'm less stressed with work.

I hope that gives some perspective, the thought of something 'not being quite right' in your brain can be a pretty scary thing, but really it shouldn't be- you're not suddenly different, you just have better awareness on what you can do to help manage it yourself.

Also, theres a great documentary called 'billion dollar deals and how they changed the world"- theres an episode about the pharmaceutical industry and how they target new medicines to mental health conditions. Really interesting, I won't say any more about it but it's worth a watch.

This is great guys. Thanks so much!

@nickc - thank you for your professional
Insights. Definitely useful. For clarity, my dad has aspergers (formal diagnosis), my brother has similar traits and dyspraxia, and my son is showing strong traits (to an uneducated eye) which suggests the likelihood of me having a genetic disposition is high enough that when coupled with the “self assessment” bits and pieces (not just a test but reading up on aspergers generally) I’m happy enough with my self diagnosis for now.

To whomever mentioned my partner and narcissism; she’s not narcissistic. I appreciate you weren’t having a pop at her and were simply sharing info so please don’t take this the wrong way or as me being defensive - she is simply the most caring, nurturing amazing person who is certainly not narcissistic. I didn’t add that for the first year she and I lived together I was quite sick. I could just about hold down my job but did no cleaning, cooking, shopping etc. Then I stopped being sick and managed to pick up/include additional tasks in my routine. This was perceived as being “capable” following my sickness, so the question posed becomes “I know you’re capable, so why don’t you see what needs doing around the house? Are you lazy? Do you not care enough? - they are not self centred narcissistic questions/instructions like “please go and bring me something for my gain” or “you need to do xxx so I can have yyy”. They are just questions looking for answers into why I don’t reciprocate her love and effort in the house.

Interestingly though, my failed relationship with the kids mum was largely due to her (my ex) being a bar narcissist. I didn’t see it but after I left her (what an ordeal that was) other people pointed it out to me. And wondered how or why I was and still am so passive when she (as I now see) essentially abused me for the whole time we were together. She ruined me. Emotionally and financially whist simultaneously stifling my career. But that’s not the point here. NB anyone who finds themselves in that position - leave. Narcissistic behaviour exploiting ASC persons won’t change or be comprehensible so all you can do is leave and start again for you and the kids. ****ing terrifying but a necessity which has allowed me to be free. I didn’t know I wasn’t until I left and now see how ****ed up that relationship was. Scary to leave but worth it. Just make sure you sleep enough to carry on. Sleep is key.

Reading back my original post shows me I was overwhelmed and overreacted. Not because of labels per se but because it changes everything. I have been trying to find ways to “notice” more of what needs doing in the house. I find if I’m less tired I am more observant. But perhaps this is only because I can take in more information and so am committing things to memory - I see the bin is full, I remember I must empty bin. When tired I don’t have capacity to store that so it doesn’t happen. HOWEVER, If I now realise I’m not being lazy and the part of my brain which notices things doesn’t work when I’m consumed with something else, then the key isn’t sleep. The key is to make notes. To take time to do a walk round and list things which need doing. It’s to incorporate a new sub routine in my daily routine.

That’s one observation. I felt I needed to consider everything I do from a new paradigm and re-evaluate life in its entirety. Pretty overwhelming! Hence the panic in my “tone”.

Now that I’ve had 3 days to process it all I realise that actually she loves me dearly and will be supportive I’m sure. It’s just not being able to predict people’s reactions to events makes it difficult to plan the conversation. I think I’ll say “I’ve been reading up on ASC ref my boy and have found that lists are helpful. Committed time for important things helps. Clear instruction etc. Then I weave these into my ways of working and show value. Then we can explore more, together.

I think saying “oh shit, I’m autistic and will
Never show you love the way you traditionally expect it so stop hoping it’ll happen because it never will” is probably not great to hear. Instead, quietly putting steps in place to improve the relationship will go down well, and later I can support why they worked with a conversation about ASC off the back of some success. A positive spin on things.

She loves me and I love her. It’s unconditional so I am not worried about her leaving - unless I push her away (as I do) when it gets difficult for me to talk about.

Feeling much better about it all but still very new. You guys are great.

@nickc – thank you for your professional
Insights. Definitely useful

+1 thanks for taking the time to state your opinion/point of view.

Lots to think over in that (and allows me to make more sense of your previous contributions). It is appreciated.

nickc - you are certainly right that there is a fair bit of self indulgence ego and excuse making around this and that middle class white weirdos like me claiming to be autistic both devalues those who have significant autism and if we are not careful end up diverting resources from those who really need them

All I can say is the realization I appear to have some strong autistic traits has helped me. Its both explained some difficulties I have had in the past and helped me to find ways round those difficulties in the future. Two close friends of mine are special needs teachers specialising in ASD and they both agreed that I have some of the traits

Its an odd one tho - where are the lines between a bit odd, eccentric, weird and " labelled"

This makes me laugh though… the institute for the study of the neurologically typical

I've often said that "normal" is just a numbers game and if NT were the minority we'd have support groups for them.

Cougar. If there are things that your traits lead you to do that upset people or that make social interactions difficult then surely its not unreasonable to look for ways to decrease the upset?

Hm. This is the 'offence' argument in different pyjamas, isn't it. It hinges on whether their reaction is reasonable.

If your partner is getting upset / angry with you for watching football on Saturday afternoons, do you stop watching it or is it in fact unfair of her to expect you to give up something you love? 'Changing who you are' vs 'accepting who someone is' is a very situational thing perhaps? I don't think there's one 'right' answer here.

rickbst170

if you want to talk some of this thru off forum PM me. I am sort of out the other side of this now

As regards the anxiety thing and it getting worse with age, I don't think that's necessarily related to Aspergers and folk dealing with that shouldn't be so quick to self-diagnose.

Cougar - in some of the instances I can think of their reaction was not unreasonable. its just I didn't understand why they were annoyed and they did not realise I had no understanding of why they were annoyed. so once we had the realisation he was able to explain clearly to me why he was annoyed, I understood and could then avoid upsetting him. Previously my attempts to reduce the annoyance simply made it worse. its a too way process ( this is a good mate of mine) He now knows not to hint or be subtle. I now know to say " I don't understand, help me"

Sure. Makes sense. 👍

As regards the anxiety thing and it getting worse with age

Agree. It should actually be better as long as you accept it for what it is and have used experience over your life time to deal with it.

an odd one with my airport anxiety ( reasonable to be anxious but not at the levels I reached sometimes) - last flight I took I didn't get it at all. Trouble is I have no idea why not so do not know if I can replicate the conditions.