[Closed] Ashes 2013

We can bleat and moan but psychle is right 🙁

For mine, there wasn't definitive evidence to overturn the onfield Umpires call, so it stays with the original decision, them's the rules...

It not hitting the bat should be enough evidence.

The Aussie I'm sat next to is more incredulous than me.

lets forget it eh? it happens.

Cook, although not in great nick is playing a great innings, if KP can get in as well we can score big...

jesus, talk about a jinx

Oops!

garbage from KP.

Figjam...

Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Commeth the hour......

KP to easy to frustrate, if the selectors have any balls or another batsman he will not be playing at the MCG, time to give Root, Carberry, Stokes to have some chances. Bell is doing OK and will see how today goes but probably the one player I wouldn't drop. Cook helped it get going but the pressure seemed to be telling and the game plan went out the window. I'd like to have seen them bat first, might have helped a little.

Whatever happens with the bat they need to lay into them hard in the second innings and try and put some pressure on them.

Edit Sustained pressure and not cop out when it's going well

Woeful from Engerland this morning, just woeful 😆 8)

Yep, not pretty.... And certainly not good enough. Not may wickets taken, and too many given away.

I watched the first over today and went for a ride, wondered how many Englishmen would be left to bat when I came in, was expecting at least 1 or 2 really. Even if we knock them over for 50 this game and series is gone.

Knocking them over for 50 may be difficult - Swanny clearly injured his spinning finger, and Broad's off the field after taking that MJ yorker on his toe.

What's the punchy bogan whinging about now?

There is a comment on the BBC site that sums things up for me.

Never in all my years has the urn been tossed away so tamely with some of the most diabolical, spineless and idiotic cricket ever witnessed in an Ashes series. Words fail me.

I'm not sure I have anything else to say.

Agreed.

At least in the bad old days England were actually crap. Here, they're a good team playing appallingly, which is a lot more annoying.

And swan is off for an xray I reckon a 400 run chase and out for 150 thought there was a bit of batting form coming through but that was an illusion

More dross. England have fielded appallingly this series.

I was there yesterday and you could sense a growing frustration amongst the Aussies and the crowd as it looked although England were going to tough it out and stay on the wicket for a while. Even KP took his time getting some runs on the board and seemed to deflate Johnson for a while, he gave it away too easily in the end though.

From what I saw of today on tv it looked as though England had already thought they'd lost the ashes, seems to be a different mindset. I can't see them winning this one.

Maybe they'll let loose a bit more in the next 2 tests and show how they won the last series...

It's gone now. If Bell and the next 2 had hung around and made their average or a little bit more along with a normal contribution from the tail then their score would have been matched.
I'll not bother checking the scores for the rest of the winter, not because I'm fair weather fan (not after enduring the dark days of Atherton rolling his eyes and looking to the sky) but if they can't be bothered to engage their brains and put a bit of effort in then neither can I.
It's not as if australia are a great team, most are ashes losers, they are average but giving it 110% they wouldn't last 5min against SA or their own side of 10 years ago. Against an England giving 110% they wouldn't be leading the series either.
You can't keep winning the ashes forever but I see this as another 2006/7 blip as hopefully changes will be made to the set-up to make the side perform to their potential, they used to have a knack of playing themselves out of trouble but that's gone. There's a lot of talent there but it' s not showing itself.
6/10 can do better. Must try harder. Prone to chatter and is easily distracted.

6/10?

After watching today's abject display, I'd have said -6/10 would be closer

Its hard to mark england as Boycs notes they have lost to a fairly average team
the batters have just not stepped up to the plate for every single innings and have let everyone down with their performances

The aussies have wobbled in the middle order but batters have stepped in and stopped the slide. England wickets tumble all the time in short bursts

Very very poor. Players need to be dropped IMHO as if you dont perform you dont play. they have not lost their form but they may have lost their drive or work rate???

Players need to be dropped
Captains need to step down
Management and back room staff need to be replaced

The one thing I expect from my test team is a set of bollocks each. I hope we lose 5-0, we deserve nothing less.

Its hard to mark england as Boycs notes they have lost to a fairly average team
the batters have just not stepped up to the plate for every single innings and have let everyone down with their performances

+1

Credit to Australia but very poor from pretty much every batsman.

To win tests you have to score more runs than the opposition and (99.9% of the time) take twenty wickets. England do not look like doing either. Wonder if some dodgy bookmaker can offer Clarke a few quid to do a 'Hansie' and give us a consolation victory.

Seriously though, the batting has been gash, the bowling mediocre and the catching shit. England are getting a well-deserved thrashing. The really disappointing thing is the quality of the opposition that we are being humped by. Steve Smith looks like a kid who has only just been told about keeping a high front elbow. He is manifestly not a test quality batsman, but seems to be able to score centuries against England. Watson is not a test quality batsman either.

Johnson has bowled spectacularly, but not actually very accurately or with much movement. He has been allowed to bowl short shit or bust spells because England have not put any pressure on the bowling side. He has been quite similar to how Devon Malcolm used to be. If wickets are falling anyway, he could just blow sides away. Any sort of resistance and he started to look like an expensive luxury. Johnson is also very capable with the bat and can field. Two things that big Dev couldn't!

Anyway. I firmly believe England swaggered off to aus believing in their own bullshit. We have been rightly hammered. This is now starting to look like a mid 90s debacle with people going home, injuries left right and centre and the cricket equivalent of a massacre.

I think winning the last two tests may be counter-productive as it might partially redeem some players who need to be axed.

All that is missing is a bi-plane flying over the ground with a champagne swigging Cook grinning to the crowds...our lot obviously seem to think they are winning for some reason. Has anybody actually told them they're being stuffed?

Botham in for Stokes
Me in for Prior (I couldn't play any worse than him)
Broad's dad in for Broad (or his mum)
A small white duck called Bert in for Swann.

Now let's play some cricket.

Actually Swann's old man could be in for him. Probably the best amateur batsman in England at one stage, but if you think KP is egotistical(!)

Anyhow, what is going on down there is not good. If this had been the Aussie side of the 90s and early noughties we would be looking at three day tests.

Are we ready?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-16/england-looking-for-fighting-spirit-to-eke-out-waca-draw/5158310?section=sport

For balance it's the ABC version..

Paceman Stuart Broad, who is nursing a foot injury and might not even bat in England's second dig, backed his team-mates to put in another Herculean effort to secure a draw in Perth.

"We've had numerous Tests over the past four years that we've managed to save when we've had no right to save," Broad said.

"If these cracks keep widening, then it's going to be very hard to bat on, and a little bit scary," Rogers said.

"It's hard to remember cracks like this.

"Maybe when I started (my career in Perth), there were a couple of pitches that were like this, and it got a bit nasty.

The only way this can end in a draw is if Clark falls asleep and forgets to declare

I've been talking to people at work who seem to share the view that we had when we wiped the floor with India at home a couple of years back. Total bafflement at England's abject performance and disappointment at the lack of a contest.

EDIT: From that ABC article:

But England is refusing to wave the white flag just yet.

WTFF? They started waving it when they let Johnson and Haddin get away in the first innings at the Gabba, and haven't really stopped waving it since.

Well, this is going as well as ever...

It just got worse, bad over for Swann, perhaps England would do better fielding in the stands

Just 22 off that over 🙄

When you consistently present a team with a lead of nearly 200, they can afford to play like it's a T20

Wow! A wicket!

On the plus side, that's "house" on Boycott Bingo, with the words "uncovered pitches" uttered.

at last something to laugh about, goodbye Watson

I almost feel sorry for you guys, I truly do (almost) 😆 8)

Brutal batting this morning, great to watch! And now it's time for some brutal bowling as well!

It's Over

Oh dear, this has started well!

Looking back to the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_Ashes_series ]last 5-0[/url] and this one is looking worse, at least they managed some big scores in that series. What is interesting is to see who still stands from that squad.
Cook, Bell, Pietersen, Panesar & Anderson. Is there any chance they can pull something out to avoid being whitewashed twice?

Lunch - some respite at last. Time to put the finishing touches on constructing the next innovative batting collapse.

No words!

To be honest all we need are 5 centuries and the extras should take care of the change needed. It's about time some of these guys hit 3 figures

Remember the cake sent in to TMS over the summer with the lion taking the 'roo from behind? Well can someone who's good with Photoshop pop a roo on this taking cook from behind??

[img] [/img]

Found it

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]This one was from the Lions tour...

I thought they would keep it 1 down until tea but just as ABC Radio were complementing them for digging in....

Well, looks like sportsbet bet on the wrong sport

Could someone please make this nightmare go away?

Still, not long until another dismantling to commence on Boxing Day...

Dismantling's not quite the word - it implies systematic deconstruction. This seems more like the tools being used consist mostly of trinitrotoluene.

Well done KP, early trip home

Geez, just not happening for England is it.

Nope. When it's going against you, it really goes against you.

Its ok you can relax now Prior at the crease tow daddy hundreds and an easy win

Broad pushed on a wheelchair to slog a six for the win

IF you could fuse Athertons or Boycs defensive instincts to KP you would have a century machine but he has at least tried
Stokes has at least been one discovery this series

the eternal optimist - these guys could get to 400 if they play well
cue dismissal before the close

he has at least tried

Meh. Even I'm narked at him after his last dismissal. Really starting to think that we need a few new faces, Stokes and Root being two of them.

Stokes has at least been one discovery this series

Well, annihilation evaded for another day

Right then, day 5 starts tomorrow, all scores off the board. Stokes and Prior to open the batting heads down and concentrate. 253-4 sounds possible?

[quote=mikewsmith said]Right then, day 5 starts tomorrow, all scores off the board. Stokes and Prior to open the batting heads down and concentrate. 253-4 sounds possible?

Not based on current form 🙂

So, it's started already. A phone call and an email in the past 10 minutes from Australian friends who are in no way gloating, bragging, or in any way acting in the bullish manner they've complained about us poms doing for the last few years.

I suppose I could ask them how many tests they've won this year ❓

I was optimistic before the series started, have been to the lowest depths of pssimism, so now I'm trying realism.

Theres a new ball due in a dozen or so overs. If Stokes and Prior can get back in in the morning - and it is like starting again, it doesn't matter what score you have on the board against your name, you have to adjust to the light, the pace and bounce - even then you'd say that the new ball will nick one or both out. So I can't see anything other than a defeat.

IF however both can get in, be positive before the new ball comes, that could be another 40 odd runs, leaving 200-odd to get. Australia would be massively favourite clearly, but they aren't as good yet as we've made them appear, and they've not been under any pressure yet with the ball. No, it won't happen but I'd love them to feel a bit of heat over a game that they're nailed on for and just see what they're like if it doesn't go entirely their way.

Maybe I'm a bit nuts - but - I think England have a wee chance.

It would be better if Broad could bat confidently but as longer Stokes and Prior are batting the more the Aussies might get a bit nervy.

Anyone still keen to defend Pietersen?

You will be awarded points for trying, which is more than 'the man' himself.

England 18/1 to win.

You never know......

Bookies are sheisters, arent they?

18/1. To get a score that's getting on for 100 more than anyone's ever chased to win a test match. On a pitch with more cracks visible than the average housing development, never mind a building site. Against a side that has only stopped larruping us for long enough to tell us how badly we're being larruped / how much they enjoy it. They reckon that in this situation 19 times, we'd manage it once?

We might though.........

[quote=tiggs121 said]Maybe I'm a bit nuts - but - I think England have a wee chance.

There's a man who didn't support England in the 90s. This series has reminded me a lot of that - the only difference being that I had some hope before the series started. Let's be honest, who expected England to even have a chance of a draw before this game started?

I'm sure it's already been said, but Pieterson has to be by far the biggest disappointment. For sure the stats say that Cook is doing far worse than him (certainly in comparison to his last visit), but at least it's taken some decent balls to get him out. Has Pieterson actually been out once to a good delivery?

[quote=theotherjonv said]Bookies are sheisters, arent they?

50/1 wouldn't really be all that generous. Maybe 100/1?

The odds you can get on Australia winning are probably closer to the reality? Oh, they're not taking bets on that?

Careful there aracer. You can't go criticising KP on this thread.

So, where do England go from here? Well, Melbourne obviously, but in a figurative sense - where?

Do they forget the practice and go do some bonding? Does Flower have them at naughty boy nets every waking hour from now until Boxing Day?

I'm really not sure what they can do as this tour has unravelled so badly and so quickly.

And to reiterate the point that our Geoffrey makes, this Aussie side is not actually that good. They are over-achieving now they have some belief, but they are a bit of a rag-tag bunch in all honesty. A spinner (albeit a good one) who bats at 11. A keeper with gloves of cement a lot of the time. A hit or miss quickie. Etc.

Another massive disappointment has been Swann. Something that is quite obvious when put alongside Lyon is how little he drifts the ball. This is because he has no 'body' in his action. I also think he is suffering from the kookaburra ball as the wider, but much flatter seam is not as easy to grip to really give the ball his usual tweak. Lyon probably isn't suffering as much as he puts a lot more 'body' into the delivery and 'comes around the outside of the ball' more, thus getting some more action on the ball that way.

What England do need is a genuine 'enforcer' (not a pumped up middleweight like Broad). Someone who can overwhelm with sheer pace (not so much need for lateral movement). The problem is that Finn seems to be going backwards at a rate of knots and Tremlett just bowls piss-pace nowadays.

I'm casting around for anything that could give me optimism at the moment, but really can't see anything.

[quote=dannyh said]Careful there aracer. You can't go criticising KP on this thread.

Really? Clearly I've not read the whole thread (have been following psychle's example from the last few series and avoiding discussing cricket) - have people found some plausible way to defend his shot selection? If he wasn't as good at actually hitting the ball when he chooses the right shots it would be so easy to drop him for his attitude - the trouble is, in the position we're in if he happened to have a good couple of hours we might stand a chance in a game, not something I think any other player (on either team) could do in the same way.

So, where do England go from here? Well, Melbourne obviously, but in a figurative sense - where?
...
I'm casting around for anything that could give me optimism at the moment, but really can't see anything.

I suspect the best thing to do is write off this tour and assume we'll lose 5-0 (to be honest I think that might actually be best for us - anything else could be an excuse to hide the problems). We had a few lean years after 06/07, but came back strong after.

Anyone still keen to defend Pietersen?

I thought you'd stoppped talking about him, lest it enlarge his ego further. Some people just can't help themselves...

and the new hero leaves the field, rather than milk the applause he looks annoyed and pissed off. Something some senior players need to look at.

Still 170 to win

Well played by Stokes, gave the English fans something to celebrate in an otherwise mediocre performance.

Swann gone, last rites being read 8)

At least Broad will have an excuse for finding walking difficult 😉

and Bresnan

gave the English fans something to celebrate in an otherwise mediocre performance.

Mediocre is too kind.

At least Broad will have an excuse for finding walking difficult

He already had one. He was just following your Captain's lead:

And that, as they say, is that 8)

and that is it, time for some changes at the MCG, give some people a chance to do something different.

So it turns out that being the only pom in an office of ozzies is rather hard work today. Talk about bad winners!

I think I may have made a career limiting move by putting the Chairman through to the MD so he was on the phone as the last wicket was taken! 😆 😈

Is Jamie still doing the photoshop wonders?
Any chance of Boycott's mother wafting a bit of Rhubarb in time for the Boxing Day test?

Where from here? Well, the 'same' team needs to play at the MCG. In front of that crowd, to put a bunch of rookies up for the humiliation that follows would be wrong. At least if the current lot fail again then the new crop don't carry the scars, and we might enable them to find some form again when the real pressure's off and see who is still worth keeping.