[Closed] Ashes 2013

I hope they bowl him at Adelaide. Take bounce out of a bowler whose only weapon is raw pace, and who has a best a frail temperament, and watch the runs roll in. Maybe...

Harrison's their best bowler by miles - very Jones-like (including ability to get injured). MJ's pretty much in the Harmison mould - devastating when on song, I liability when not.

They haven't actually got a badly balanced attack. One bloke who is just shit or bust quick. One bloke who bowls a decent pace and does a bit with it (Harris), one bloke who's too thick not to want to bowl all day every day (Siddle) and a very under rated spinner. England collapse in both innings shouldn't divert us from the fact that we also miss a hairy arsed fast bowler.

[url= http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-25/michael-clarke-fined-for-sledging-in-first-ashes-test/5115304 ]HA HA![/url]

I like Anderson's confused face "you what?" I'm surprised he didn't burst out laughing at the gobby shortarse when he came out with his playground threats. The stump mic didn't pick up "yeah and my dads a policeman"

Apparently it was Bailey doing most of the sledging. No doubt Jimmy's response would have been to enquire as to who he was, and as to why he was on the field.

Trott's been sent home suffering from a stress related illness. Tough break, get well soon!

Bummer

Poor bastard. Shades of Marcus Trescothick there, hope he finds the environment he needs to recover. I can only hope that sections of the Aussie media don't now brand him a quitter or suggest that he's been 'broken' by the pressure applied during the test.

It wouldn't surprise me if they did. But at the same time, I suspect it'll have no effect on him whatsoever, and probably the opposite effect on the rest of the team.

I suspect it'll have no effect on him whatsoever, and probably the opposite effect on the rest of the team.

Absolutely spot on. They don't strike me as being a roll over type of team (and frankly after 20 years of being sh*t, I wouldn't want them to be even if it upsets THM that they aren't a bunch of jolly Gower-alikes having a spiffing time touring the vineyards in biplanes during their days off. I'd rather the Aussies hate them as long as we can beat them time and again)

It's a horrific life being an international cricketer if you aren't 100% in the mind. You're on tour for half of the year and even in a home series, it's not like say football where you go training for 3 hours and then back to your family in the afternoon, you're away for weeks on end, sat in some hotel or changing room somewhere with too much time to just think. Hope he gets well soon.

I still believe there is a very good mutual respect off the field. I can only talk from the Australian team. I have the utmost respect for their team."

What does he say when he does lose respect for someone /a team then ? threaten their children with cancer?

Feel for Trott and hope for some compassion about hos he is felling but I wont be that surprised to not see it happen

Its sports its not actually war *
At his best this would weaken England at the present it does not

hope he sorts it out
* yes I know the quote.

He's a petulant child, same as the last convict captain

hearing reports that Warner knew about trotts state of mind when he called him weak. Hope Trott recovers, the england players need to shove warners words up his arse. I can't wait for next week, it's going to be hostile.

Not sure we can get upset about name calling and then call them names

Rise above it

Well, press is reporting here that Warner had no idea, so who knows eh? Surely Trott (or team management) would have known he was fragile and maybe should've reconsidered him being on the tour in the first place? Anyhoo, best of luck to him, I wish him well...

As for the Clarke 'controversy', what a blingin storm in a teacup from the wowsers and PC brigade! It looked to me that Anderson was stalling, maybe thinking they could get off the field for another rain break or bad light, then maybe rain would save 'em overnight (wishful thinking!), Clarke obviously got a tad miffed at this (think of the pressure he and the team were under to get this win), plus there was a seriously hostile intimidating environment out there at that stage with MJ most definitely a good chance to cause harm, Anderson did not at all look like he wanted to face up, Clarke was fired up and yes it was a crude sledge, but perfectly understandable and appropriate (though perhaps a bit wasted on a number 11)

The only reason anyone gives a shit is because it was heard live over the stump mic, how much stuff gets said and never reported eh?

And thanks for sending us convicts down this way Zokes, it's a real hardship to bear growing up with all this lovely weather, beaches and wide open spaces, plus an economy that's actually going somewhere 😀

I wondered where the fair weather supporter had gone

I'm probably the furthest thing from a fair weather supporter you could find guv, I'm with my team 100% through thick and thin (I've supported the St Kilda FC since before I was born for instance, and if you know anything about Australian Football you'd realise what that means about me and my loyalty through trials and tribulations!)

And one last thing (I'm sure I've pointed it out before perhaps), do you guys even know what a bloody bogan is?? Calling Australians a bogan is like calling all Poms Mancunians or Scousers, which is daft wouldn't you say? Muppets... 😉

Echo the sentiments above about Trott. Really feel for him, hope he recovers well and we see him back in England whites soon

theotherjonv - Member
even if it upsets THM that they aren't a bunch of ....

How odd?

Since no-one knows the background to Trott's decision, no comment would seem to be the most appropriate response combined with best wishes.

it's a real hardship to bear growing up with all this lovely weather, beaches and wide open spaces, plus an economy that's actually going somewhere

Sounds great, hopefully that makes up for the distinct lack of culture, casual racism, skin cancer, droughts, water shortages, forest fires and shit beer. 😉

And the 4th most obese country in the world, well the inhabitants, not the country itself

It's quite amusing to see how cocky the Australians are getting after winning one test match (after how many losses before that?).

Lots of comments on Australian newspaper websites about 'normal service resumed' etc, and someone claiming this team is looking like the best ever Aussie test side. Such short memories. 😆

And Psychle - I suspect the fair weather supporter bit was about the fact that you didn't seem to post much when Australia were getting trounced, yet strangely you seem a bit more active on the cricket threads now.

Bit like how we kept hearing test cricket was dead in Australia and everyone there only cares about Aussie rules football - seems to have gone out of the window now for some reason....

good point houns 🙂

How odd?

Not really. It was not a comment about Trott the individual, but at the point raised that if the Aussies / Aussie press try to use Trott's illness as a way to unpick the hard exterior of the England team, they'll find in fairly short time that it'll have the opposite effect. Because that's the way the team have become, and something that you've commented on recently.

Yes, they are difficult to love, but they're also difficult to beat, and after 20 years of being the other way round, I know what I'd rather.

yes but what has that to do with me? Unless you meant TMS not THM?

it was a crude sledge, but perfectly understandable and appropriate

It went way past the mark from banter and humour or insults into threats.
Poor and poor you would defend it tbh

TBH I think roughing up tail enders is pretty cowardly. As they can barely bat why so scared of removing them with skill that you resort to intimidation?

Well the press here were quoting that Warner had no idea

Are you sure that quote isn't an old one?

I'm probably the furthest thing from a fair weather supporter you could find guv

Welcome back to the cricket threads, non fair weather supporter - clearly there's been some other reason you've not been posting on them recently.

Blimey - give the guy (physcle) a break unless this is STW's version of sledging! 😉

psychle is into his cricket for certain. I'm pretty sure we've been exchanging banter since 2005 on here.

He's probably 'slightly' more into it this week, thats all 😀

yes but what has that to do with me? Unless you meant TMS not THM?

Unless I'm totally wrong (in which case i apologise) you have repeatedly criticised the England team not just over their performances, but because they've not been particularly 'nice' in how they go about it (eg; Broad standing his ground when given not out). If they can use this ("do it for Trotty, let's show Warner and his mates what we think of them", etc.) to make them play better, EVEN IT IT MAKES THEM EVEN LESS LOVEABLE - I'll take that trade.

for the record, my take on sledgegate is that its all part of a fiercely competative series and although I think that Clarke's comments were clumsy that doesn't really suprise me. He is under immense pressure to succeed and there is a thread of genuine dislike between the teams.

Bowling short to tailenders? All part of the game. I fully expect Jimmy, Broad and whoever the 3rd seamer is to be right at the aussies in the next test. The trouble with trying to intimidate professional sportsmen is that if it doesn't work you are just motivating them even more. I think it was Napoleon who said something like 'do not intervene or distract your enemy when he is making a mistake'. No need to sledge england, they were more than capable of chucking the game away with no help at all. Far better to smile broadly and keep quiet. That approach relies on a little discipline and no-one being a gobshite though.

Does anyone actually think that KP, Broad, Cook etc are going to be unsettled by the Aussie talk? I think not, and its likely to backfire.

Unless I'm totally wrong (in which case i apologise) you have repeatedly criticised the England team not just over their performances, but because they've not been particularly 'nice' in how they go about it (eg; Broad standing his ground when given not out).

Steve Waugh has a theory that players the Aussies get stuck into (Ganguly, Broad etc) are ones who play the game in an Australian manner...

Fair enough TOJ - my main point (in the past) was that I thought Broad was a cheat (still do) and you are correct that I felt that the England team had/has an attitude (gamesmanship, cheating, general sureliness) that made them/makes them difficult to like - oh and to give you some ammo re the Gower link, their awful dress sense (the vests etc!!) 😉

At the top level, I think sledging is sad but part and parcel of the game. I can live with it but would prefer it not to be required. Note the respect that Federer, Nadal, Murray show for each other despite wanting to rip each others guts out (metaphorically speaking) on each point. My wider concern * is how it trickles down into school sport and the sport I play. Luckily, we have a cricket league that is self-selected and based on a style of play and behaviour that we all enjoy. The only rule of sledging here it that it can only be directed at your own team!!! But it is becoming a worry at the school level.

* I am sure that Anderson can look after himself.

Perhaps the real question here is why was Trott's "condition" not assessed better/earlier before we got to this stage?

At least I am the best in my family was a great reply to a sledge from the other Waugh.

Sledging should be edgy but it should also be funny - it should no tbe a threat

IIRC someone mentioned to mcGrath about his wifes cancer as well - way over the line

The next England batsman who gets a gobful from Warner should just say:

"Hey Dave, if you can stay off the booze long enough to play a full series I'll listen to what you've got to say. Until then you can * off you knuckle-dragging, pumped-up T20 slogging, short-arsed, little *".

Actually, scrub that - just say it in a press conference.

Also, I think all the England players should only ever refer to Clarke as 'Kim' - as in Kim Hughes, because that is ultimately how he is going to end up as captain.

Failing that, we could just rise above it and do a 'Jardine' - "what a positively ghastly little country" (or something along those lines).

As for what Clarke said to Anderson, it was absolutely fine - Anderson was indulging in some sharp practice. Johnson had his tail up and Clarke didn't want anything to 'break the spell'.

Again, Anderson ought to have just said "Calm down, Kim. You know what happens when you get too emotional......"

[quote=teamhurtmore said]my main point (in the past) was that I thought Broad was a cheat (still do)

In the same way that Haddin and Clarke are (I'm sure I can find the videos if need be), or in some other sense?

England seem to have no problem with what goes on during play, but think Warner's post match comments were unprofessional and disrespectful, regardless as to who they were aimed at. Would you have KP talking about how funny it is having a walking LBW victim in your team who rarely scores more than 30?

sledging will never go away*. We have to accept it and live with it. i said in the summer of cricket thread a few months back, that England started getting good when Fletcher took over and they identified the group of players that were technically 'good enough' but had the mental strength to deal with the pressure. Without both parts, they wouldn't succeed - Rampsrakash vs Collingwood for example.

You see it now in the mental assessments they do, Broad being highlighted as one of the guys who will use the recent shitstorm in the press to actually motivate rather than affect him negatively.

* not in professional sport, where it ISN'T a 'game' any more, it's livelihoods and careers and self-esteem..... winning is all, not how you won. I'm glad that you (THM) have a league where it isn't accepted, so you can play in a way that you enjoy. I played both hard league cricket and Jazz Hat cricket in my time and you approach each differently. Sadly, for me, when i couldn't cut it in the tough stuff any more, playing only the friendly stuff didn't satisfy the urge any more.

Oh, and re the tennis analogy. Don't buy that for a minute. They might not be yelling at each other from the back of the courts, and all appear chummy off it, but don't think for a minute that if one sees a chance to disrupt the other by slowing down the play / taking a piss break / all that incessant brow mopping, they won't grab it with both hands.

Yep, agree that sledging will never go away nor gamesmanship. In cricket we (England) give as much as we get and cant get worked up about any of it nor the stick and stones from one Aussie. Its all part of the media circus that goes with the profession. I just dont like it.

TOJ - you forgot Djok's ability to feign an injury at key moments!!! 😉 But its about balance - and that is where I feel England get it wrong at times, that's all.

Our league is hard and competitive BTW its just that over the years we have weeded out those teams that do not know how to strike the correct balance. I open to batting and the bruises all over my arms, shoulder and chest attest to the competitive nature of the cricket and my falling skill levels and advancing age!! Oh and the dodgy patch just short of a length on the home pitch.

Anyway it was nice to wake up this morning without another overnight horror show!!

And thanks for sending us convicts down this way Zokes, it's a real hardship to bear growing up with all this lovely weather, beaches and wide open spaces, plus an economy that's actually going somewhere

Well, it was, until you idiots somehow managed to elect a poor imitation of a chimpanzee as your PM. Can't blame me, I can't vote yet....

I'm probably the furthest thing from a fair weather supporter you could find guv

Well, you certainly seem to be conspicuous by your absence on these threads compared to your previous chipper self in 06/7 😉

do you guys even know what a bloody bogan is??

Yep, the chav's Australian cousin. You see plenty of them on Hindley Street of a Saturday night. Usually of poor intellect, and poorer attitude. Three examples:

1) David Warner
2) The editor of the Courier Mail
3) Tony Rabbott

Another bad thing about the whole Trott situation is that it avoids the spotlight being on some other issues that England need to address ON the field.

Namely the fact that the Aussies have worked Root out, and I can really see him struggling in this series.

But much more importantly, the monumental pillock that is Kevin Pietersen. His second innings dismissal was a disgrace. Again.

"I'm KEVIN PIETERSEN, I don't duck bouncers, I take them on because I'M KEVIN PIETERSEN. I'm THE MAN".

Despite the fact that there was barely anyone behind square, two men back and a short leg in, on a bouncy track with a quick bowler who was getting good value out of bowling short, KEVIN PIETERSEN will not adjust his approach one iota.

This says all you need to know about 'KP' and his attitude to the team and the match situation. He is simply not interested in anything other than KEVIN PIETERSEN, the brand.

Expect him to start talking about himself in the third person at some point during the series........

I'm of the opinion that the ECB knew about Trott prior to sending him and did nothing to support him, just like Mike all those years ago.
I personally can't see what the problem is but I hope eh sorts himself out. 😐

Honestly, it makes Groves & Froch's pre-fight banter seem like librarians chatting during their tea-break.

This says all you need to know about 'KP' and his attitude to the team and the match situation. He is simply not interested in anything other than KEVIN PIETERSEN, the brand.

I really don't agree about this KP bashing. Everyone else plays stupid shots to get out, yet as ever, it's KP who attracts the flak.

Yes, but 'KP' is a swaggering big head of the worst kind. He has attracted pretty much universal loathing wherever he has laid his kit bag. He simply cannot fathom why people like to wind him up (because he has not got a self-deprecating bone in his body and is bound to bite in case you are wondering). He is tolerated because he is a uniquely talented player (in recent England memory any way). When this lot retire, you will not see a single complimentary word (on a personal level) from any of his team mates.

I also find it massively frustrating watching someone who has his talent play the way he does. All hands, no second line of defence, and only ever one ball away from doing something really stupid.

In my opinion a lot of this stems from how he has triumphed in cricket through bloody mindedness. When he started playing professionally in South Africa he was a filthy off spinner who batted at nine and couldn't buy a run. Through sheer hard work and, critically, self-belief, he has made himself into a test batsman who averages nearly fifty. This is a testament to him, and I admire him for this. However, this self-reliance often results in flawed personalities. As exemplified by Pietersen.

My issue is with how this has now translated into riding roughshod over the team ethic. He will say it isn't true. His teammates and coaches will say it isn't true. But they're all thinking the same thing.

People talk about inhibited players getting themselves out before they have even taken guard. Sometimes Pietersen does this through his craven need to assert himself. I wish he'd just leave the attitude at the pavilion gate and play witha clean slate.

If there wasn't a need to assert yourself and the attitude left in the pavilion, we would not have had IVA Richards, for one.

Wasn't it a known fact amongst bowlers that you needed to get Viv early, when he was trying to assert himself?

I'd have that down as a weakness (of sorts), then!

Thanks for strengthening my argument, though!

Just to clarify. It wasn't just necessary to get him early, from a run-saving and obvious point of view. Many bowlers of the era have commented that his main weakness was a need to assert himself against the bowlers, and thus is was 'their chance' to get him out.

That average may have been 60+ without the peripheral stuff.

I suspect looking after his average was not Viv's bag. However looking at their records, and more importantly the games they influenced, it seems a weakness worth having.

I think it was Gower who was once asked about the best tactic for bowling to vivi.

'Set the stumps up quickly and start bowling before he even gets to the crease'

He has attracted pretty much universal loathing wherever he has laid his kit bag.

Well, I quite like him. Like Viv, he's a big-hitting test batsman, as opposed to a T20 bludger like Warner.

I also thought he was a reasonable choice as captain, and I wasn't alone in this assertion.

I also thought he was a reasonable choice as captain, and I wasn't alone in this assertion.

He was an appalling choice IMO. Genuinely baffled by anyone who thinks it was a good idea.

Aussies look in great form in both their International & Test Records this year

Losing test series 4-0 in India and 3-0 against England? 😯

Making Pietersen captain was done for the same reasons, and with exactly the same results, as making Botham captain. He was an appalling choice.

On the subject of Viv Richards. He was the best batsman of the post WW2 game. Better than Lara, better than Sachin in my opinion. If he had a weakness it was the need to dominate early on. Anything that detracts from a batsman playing each ball on its merit is a weakness. This can apply to scoreboard pressure, or the field setting, or the aggression of the fielding side. All of which are external to the batsman so beyond his control to a large extent.

What a batsman can influence is his own mindset and approach. Any batsman who predetermines his actions is putting himself at a disadvantage.

.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25166475 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25166475[/url]

Typical aussie behaviour. They were announcing KP as 'South African born Kevin Pieterson' when he walked out in the last series. I was wanting to see if they did the same for their own when they play their ****stani spinner with the freshly printed passport but he's unlikely to get a game.

Just checked the forecast here in Adelaide. 18C and rain for Thursday 🙁

Team thoughts? I'd bring Bresnan in if fit and maybe give Ballance a go.

I think they'll want to stick with four bowlers and will swap Bresnan for Tremlett, that will also shorten the tail a bit. The bold choice would be Stokes but I think they'll probably go with Ballance or Bairstow.

So, double spin, uncapped all-rounder, and a pitch made out of memory foam.

At least the punchy bogan has yet to lean that T20 batting rarely works in test matches...

36/1

Rain and all, going to be interesting. The boss is over in Adelaide (a Scotsman so no idea about cricket) and was surprised to find not much accommodation left...

The boss is over in Adelaide (a Scotsman so no idea about cricket) and was surprised to find not much accommodation left...

I wonder why....

Got tickets for Sunday and can't wait. Pity I didn't manage to pull off tickets for all five days like I did last year. Also a pity England haven't pulled off what they did three years ago too.

MONTY TO BAMBOOZLE THEM oops on caps lock

MONTY TO BAMBOOZLE THEM

One hopes...

Got tickets for Sunday and can't wait.

109-1 halfway through the second session tells me that I will....

Yawn

any tickets for monday? might still be Australia's 1st innings

about time for another

Turn up on the day for Monday...

Montyyyyyyyyyy!

Great timing, back to evens?

p'raps. p'raps not...

So close to being England's day, you'd have bet your house on Carberry there!

Jeez, that is one slow, horrible wicket! 22 yards of weetabix.

Absolutely critical that England basically bat once. Ok so maybe chasing down a hundred in the last dig might not be too bad against an attack with only one spinner, but no more than that. Finish them off for less than 350, take our time and post a big total. Then nick one or two out with the new conker before Swann and Panesar take over.

That's the theory anyway.

Strangely, this is the kind of surface where England miss someone of real pace who can reverse it. Anderson is merely ok with reverse. Someone like Flintoff or Jones would be ideal. It just goes to show what absolute gods Waqar and Wasim were!

1st session critical, if they can get among them early then it could go Englands way, if not then Australia could end up totting up a total and be up at 400 without anyone doing anything special.

The big test is how England go with the bat, there will be pressure on everyone after Brisbane, Australia already have runs on the board regardless of the pitch.

I'm worried. Next session is crucial. I can't see this being a draw, with the pitch turning as it is already, and I can't see us chasing a big total in the last innings. We need to get these last wickets for not many to give us a chance to make a lead that's big enough to put pressure on and let Monty and Swanny to do their thing. If Aus score enough to take a lead, I would then worry we'll be 2-0, a tough game at the WACA to come, and the series and ashes slipping away.

The 2 spinners is a bold call and looks like England want to win, Australia don't want to loose. A win on a draw pitch would be a very good result.

We've picked the bowlers to win the game for sure. But you also have to score more runs than the opposition. I've been defending the batters for a while now as having too much talent to continue to fail, but we need that faith repaid now by a daddy ton or two.

I KNOW cooky, belly, kp, and co have the capability but I'm less confident each day they don't do it. I know it's only day 6 out of 25, but time's already running out.

aye its the batters who have let them down for sure and need to step up to the plate. the problem is none of them are in form.

well no wickets yep and it's back with Australia for now, could do with seeing the back of Clark