Arthritic knee

Yes me too. Mine was diagnosed in 2013 but as i was too active and too young at the time they told me to wait a few years. I get no pain when not active and can cycle with no issues. Forward to now and it's now painful to walk more than 1km and i live on ibuprofen (paracetamol does not work). I can still cycle with no issues but an MRI scan last year showed its degenerated.

If i win the lottery its the first thing i'll get done. But cycle club friends have had a mixed experience of the operation.

I've had a dicky knee since the cartilage was removed when I was 19. I went for an MRI scan about this time last year as it had been particularly achey for a while and that showed that as it's been rubbing bone-on-bone for 30 years I now have arthritis in the joint. The consultant recommended a partial knee replacement (although I guess he would, a man with a hammer sees everything as a nail etc). I went away to have a a think about it and it's barely given me any jip since. Part of me wonders whether it's kind of reverse psychosomatic - I don't want the op, so I'm not feeling any pain...

She was told by a consultant they it needs replacing, but due to her age she will have to put up with it for the next 17 years before they will operate!

Ungentlemanly question, but how old is MrsHarry? I'm 50 and he was happy to chop into me, although this was BUPA not NHS

Go private if you can, beg/borrow/steel!

Mum had a bad hip for years and was quite quickly starting to hobble about like an old lady. £15K, a couple nights in a private hospital in Aberdeen, a series of Zooom physio sessions and within what seemed like weeks she was back to normal, walking stick confined to the cupboard.

17 years is a long time to put your life on hold.

They aren't interested in doing it until she is 70 because the new knee won't last.

Having spoken to a mate who works with orthopaedic surgeons he estimated the life expectancy on a replacement for an active person is around 10 years, after which you really are in a mess. Hence the question about pain relief.

I was told 15 years, but I guess it varies.

My dad has Naproxen for the arthritis in his hands. Sounds like you need to speak to the consultant or whoever about long-term pain management.

TLDR - Get a second opionion.

Another vote for going private. Not necessary for the Op, but to talk options. The NHS were going to fix the torn meniscus to help me. The private surgeon said there was no point as it would just go again in a day/week/month so he recommended more invasive 'leg straightening' at the same time. I was lucky that I could afford it, but after the op the Arthritis in my knee regressed! I did not even know that was a thing. The estimate is that I have gone from needing a new knee with a couple of years to at least 15, possibly never.

On the pain management front 'The Pain-free mindset' by Dr Deepak Ravindram (NHS pain consultant) is worth studying for a deep dive in the various factors that contribute to pain. https://deepakravindran.co.uk/

'The knee osteoarthritis handbook' ( https://www.noiukshop.com/the-knee-osteoarthritis-handbook-42-p.asp) is more specific and an easier format to follow but also more expensive (£30).

Also various youtube/podcast options by Deepak and Lorimer Mosely (NOI) available online.

FWIW, I just had a look at what the two private consultations and MRI scan that I had cost, and it came to about £600.

I was recently diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, and like Mrs Harry paracetamol and ibuprofen were basically useless. As noted by IHN naproxen does the trick. I've had it prescribed by both the GP and the rheumatology consultant.

I too have it in my knees, plus sports degeneration means very little meniiscus in one side of the right knee. That's relevant later.

Key points after my consultation - NHS

1/ Knee replacements are not as advanced as hips i/ they've been doing them longer and so have refined material and techniques more; ii/ the knee isn't a ball and socket joint so is harder to design a stable prosthetic for anyway

2/ As a result the success is substantially lower than that of hips - he reckoned about 50% saw a marked improvement; 30% or so no difference but perhaps reduced degeneration at least at first; 10% no better or even worse; and 10% wish they'd never met him. Not great odds as far as the NHS views it

3/ If they don't last, while a hip can be redone the smaller bones of the knee mean that doing a second one is a lot more risky, that the prosthetics won't take well.

4/ TLDR - leave it as late as you can. he said one was definitely in my future, but not now.

I discussed quality of life now versus leaving it - in another 10 years I might be dead or dying of cancer, etc. - which he accepted but that's not how the NHS views it. For sure a private surgeon may offer a different opinion, and if you can afford it and want to consider that risk then I'm sure you can get it done.

So - for my specific condition - where the meniscus is damaged on the inside (medial) part; the knee tends to collapse inwards slightly, putting more weight and pressure on the medial part, which rubs more and consequently....etc. Rather than draconian surgical intervention he's put me into an unloader brace. This contraption puts a pivot on my knee joint and then by means of two hefty QR straps, tightened by BOA's (really!) it pulls mid thigh and mid calf outwards, opening up the knee joint and compensating the work of the (missing) meniscus.

Of course, if that isn't the type of degradation she has then it won't work, but there are options for some kinds of conditions beyond surgery and analgesia (I was on 6-8 parrots a day, now rarely take them) - so I'd definitely DYOR and see whether there are other options.

(he said men like wearing them because chicks dig scars / look like Robocop when I have it on - women less so because ruins the cut of skinny jeans, etc. YMMV)

https://www.ossur.com/en-gb/bracing-and-supports/knee/unloader-one

Watching with interest as am back in the MRI scanner tomorrow, 2 years after a partial menisectomy.

New knees may not need to be full new knees now. They offer partial replacements for the more active, if you can find a very good surgeon. They partially redo the arthritic areas, which means a smaller op and also a return to activity quicker.

Depends how far gone your other half's knee is... but here is some of the gumph....

Partial Knee Joint Resurfacing | 

I've had right one done (at 48) as a partial replacement.

Currently on the waiting list (since June) for orthopaedics with a view to getting the left one done. This time told me I was too young, but I said I wasn't too young 6 years ago when my right one was done... Then told me my BMI was too high, which I've sorted. If I'm lucky I might hear by Easter/Summer.

With my first a cortisone shot helped a good bit, but when I had it with this one it only helped for maybe a couple of weeks.  I was having cortisone shots once a year in my wrists too which was helping them.

I'm currently on paracetamol (seems to do nothing but I'm told to keep taking it anyway.

Naproxen too, definitely the best for me helping knee and wrist. The odd time I've stopped it for a few days then return of higher levels of pain has been quick.

Also got tramadol to take if it flares up or is too bad on a night.

I've found a knee brace makes a big difference when I know I'm going to be on my feet a length of time. NHS here refused to supply one, but this one is good for me with out breaking the bank on an unloader... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08NY9K9HS/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A28PR2DD67KHKI&psc=1

I'm wrestling with whether to spend £16.5k+ going private out of recent inheritance with my Mam passing :/

What I can say is when I got my right knee done it made a massive difference. It still limits me, but I'm not in pain 24/7 only after I've over done it, but due to the left one's current condition that's not happening.

By the way don't think of partial replacement as being minor compared to the full replacement. The trauma and recovery etc is pretty much the same.

So – for my specific condition – where the meniscus is damaged on the inside (medial) part; the knee tends to collapse inwards slightly, putting more weight and pressure on the medial part, which rubs more and consequently….etc. Rather than draconian surgical intervention he’s put me into an unloader brace. This contraption puts a pivot on my knee joint and then by means of two hefty QR straps, tightened by BOA’s (really!) it pulls mid thigh and mid calf outwards, opening up the knee joint and compensating the work of the (missing) meniscus.

A brace was/is also an option for me, sounds like we have the same issue. Do you wear it all the time?

That is the issue I have too... and a fitting for the Unloader is next week. Does it work @theotherjonv ??

A brace was/is also an option for me, sounds like we have the same issue. Do you wear it all the time?

No.

It's kind of one of those upward (or downward) spiral things. While waiting for it, etc., the knee was getting ravaged and hurting every day, and as a result never had chance for inflammation etc. to die down. Ibuprofen messes me up gastrically (some past bleeding incidents) so I only take when really necessary, hence on lots of paracetamol

Once i got it, I wore it continuously (not exactly, you have to build wear time up, not least so your soft inner thighs don't chafe against the anchor points 😉 ) and the pain and inflammation reduces, so you need to wear it less, and so on.

If I'm going out for a walk, or know I'll be on my feet for a lot of the day, then I'll wear it to prevent it getting painful. If I'm just having a day WFH where the longest trip will be to the fridge and back (several times granted) then no need. It only works when stood up anyway, so pointless wearing it when spending a lot of time sat down.

It's not uncomfortable, you get used to it, but you are aware it's there. Some of that though is the aforementioned chafing, the anchors have that strong silicone (think like knee sleeve stuff, or hold up stockings if you're that way inclined) and that can get sweaty and rub - but it needs to be held in place, if the leg slips inside the anchor points then the straps aren't pulling properly. Hence needs to be direct to skin, over trousers or a tubigrip doesn't work anywhere near as well.

[edit - @macraque; absolutely, I'm delighted with it]

One other minor problem.

You can't easily take it off or put it on with trousers or even shorts on - the anchors are too bulky to pull the bottom of your garment legs over, unless you wear very stretchy fabrics or massive loose fit flares.

So at times where at the end of a walk i get back to the car and want to take it off to drive home. You look all around, not a soul in site, drop your trousers to take it off.....and guaranteed a car or walkers appear.

But we're all MTBers, so I assume we've all stood in a car park with just our kecks on at one time or another.

Thanks... mine is specifically for skiing. I seem ok for a few days, then the load just gets too much and gradually the pain gets worse. So this could be just the ticket.

I have arthritis in my left knee, as a result of decking my bike at walking speed, my knee took the full impact, followed by my elbow, shoulder and the side of my face - fortunately my helmet saved my skull from a harder impact. I had an X-ray several years after my doctor shrugged and said I’d done something, but I’m getting older, so get used to it.
I’m managing it with Naproxen twice a day, and occasionally CoCodamol, but the arthritis in my thumbs is far more severe, that only flared up around eighteen months ago and there’s nothing much can be done about it, I’ve taken Naproxen and CoCodamol and several ‘doses’ of Voltarol today, and my hands have been very painful all through today, whereas I barely notice my knee most of the time.

So there’s one advantage to having the damage to my hands. Not much of one, it has to be said, but the likelihood of my knee requiring surgery has receded significantly, ‘cos I don’t notice it hurting much now. *Shrugs*

I’m planning on getting my bike out and starting riding again, but soft knee protecton will be a requirement, if only for my peace of mind.

I have arthritis in both my knees, was quite bad a couple of years ago spent over 12 months really struggling to walk, had to buy a car after managing without for many years, was just in constant pain. It has eased up now, but it is still a constant ache, and it gets worse if I have an enforced prolonged break from exercise.

There are some interesting developments in artificial cartilage that will probably be widely available in the next couple of years, and I think that will really improve the capability and success for this kind of knee surgery, so that is keeping me from pestering my doctor for surgical intervention at the moment, but if I return to the pain and immobility i was suffering a couple of years ago I don't think I will be able to hold out for a solution that is always just over the horizon.

My wife was recently diagnosed with arthritis in her knees. At only 46 she is too young for a replacement but was offered a high tibial osteotomy as an alternative. She's had the surgery and is still recovering but isn't getting the same arthritic pain she had prior to the op. She's a keen runner so will be interesting to see how it is once she's given the ok to start again. Would be worth talking to your surgeon to see if it's an option. We're hoping that it will give her up to 10 years before replacement is required.

@tourismo - Good to hear your wife is doing well. Did she have a high patella / patella alta? I was informed I have that position which results in my issues (see separate knee thread). I'm yet to have the operation (TTO) but under the guidance of my surgeon he'll be going in to have a look/check positioning whilst I'm under in a few months time.

The same surgeon wll also doing my other knee for a meniscus repair first of all end of this month...Damn knees...

Best of luck everyone else, all I can say based on my experience advocate for yourself as much as you can. Not all opinions are equal...

If I followed the advice I was initially given I'd have got absolutely nowhere.

@paddy0091 Don't think patella alta has ever been mentioned. She was told it likely due to wear and tear, but this doesn't seem to be based on any evidence. She was never a high milage runner and didn't play lots of football or rugby which often seems to precipitate knee problems. She was initially told she would need a bone graft but it wasn't as bad as expected so didn't require one in the end. Hope all goes well with your op.

Just got an appointment to see the orthopaedic consultant mid-March for my other knee, so they've not knocked me back for the op due to age(55) this time.  Usually 2-3 months after seeing them for the op, so fingers crossed as it's been flaring up overnight alot again and waking me up.

I'm feeling lucky reading this thread as a year ago I had arthritis in both wrists, not great when your a self employed in building trade and for 4 months in pain

I've been diagnosed with auto immune arthritis so the 6 wee yellow tabs once a week has totally cleared it but probably on it indefinitely and need to hope I don't catch flu etc

Sciatica this past month is more painful but prescribed codeine 3.5 X stronger than bought over the counter masks the pain

The joys of getting older

When my thumb joints are really playing up, I bought some elastic supports, NeoG I think they’re called Boots sell them, I usually wear them in bed, but they’re good for helping during the day as well, I’ve had an orthotic support made up to help support my hand when I’m using my bow, and I think there’s enough room inside it to go over the elastic support if I take the foam spacers out that I’m using at the moment - drawing a recurve bow with around 34lb draw weight makes the bones in the joint do unpleasant things…

Here’s the orthotic…

Me wearing it…