[Closed] arrogant posh boys

it's not necessarily the case that the cabinet needs to be representative of the populous. what it needs to be is empathetic with the needs of the whole country. your social class does not dictate your ability to be 'well-rounded'.

we put them there, it's our duty to remove them.
unfortunately a democracy relies on the people, all we have is a majority who are either apathetic or politically misguided (ignorant).

it's not necessarily the case that the cabinet needs to be representative of the populous. what needs it to be is empathetic with the needs of the whole country. your social class does not dictate your ability to be 'well-rounded'.

This.

But working class!
Edit; Perhaps not. He has a honorary degree, does this count?

Paddy Ashdown wasn't exactly lacking in "life" was he?

And the press destroyed him, your point is? 😀

Easy one to answer - because if they have one ounce of personality/charisma the media will rip them apart in no time. Would love to see am MP who's experienced more of life's rich tapestry but they would never get past the starting gate.

Much as I loathe him, George Galloway refutes this.

doesnt sound working class to me:

Ashdown was largely brought up in Northern Ireland, where his father bought a farm in 1945[2] near Donaghadee.[6] He was educated first at a local primary school, then as a weekly boarder at Garth House Preparatory School in Bangor[6] and from age 11 at Bedford School in England, where his Irish accent earned him the nickname "Paddy".

it's not necessarily the case that the cabinet needs to be representative of the populous. what needs it to be is empathetic with the needs of the whole country. your social class does not dictate your ability to be 'well-rounded'.

true but having some people around you from a different socio economic backgound would help would it not?

We need more MP's who are capable of delivering a decent left hook

[img] [/img]

Theres not one single MP out of the present lot who looksup to it. I suppose Erik Pickles could belly flop on you 😆

1) Most of the jobs the person in question was offered were well above minimum wage. Not "support the whole family" well paid, but in the 18-22K range. Some were indeed poor, I remember one down at 14 but that was a commission based role.
2) I'm not sure where the numbers come from so it's hard to say, but the number of jobs in the job centre were no reflection of the true scale of jobs available if you scratch the surface and don't just wander about your local high street asking in your favourite clothes stores.

Thing is, personal anecdotes are a poor substitute for national statistics.

anagallis_arvensis

true, but I am not thinking in party political terms here.

AA what are you gettign at then as you keep moving the goalposts? Are you sure that you and TJ haven't melded together?

This question genuinely staggers me. As a small example, if we want to get the long term benefit climents back into work surely it might be better if someone knew something about what their life was like and why they have been on benefits so long?

Knowing something and living it are not mutually exclusive. I am glad I have "staggered" you, but perhaps you are misinterpreting the question. My point is, why do you have to come from the 90% of the populas to be able to represent them?

I would rather a business owner in charge of the country than the checkout staff, for instance. That does not mean the business owner has no empathy or understanding of his staff.

coffeeking, the idea that it's easy to get well paid jobs based on one persons second hand experience is a bit ridiculous tbh, and kind of offensive to those generally struggling. Yes there are work shy people out there but total vacancies are far lower than the unemployed total, and many of the vacancies are short term, badly paid, with poor conditions etc

toys this is what I put in the first post I dont think I've moved the goalposts

What is the stw view on government and mp's. I think all parties should make more effort to have people who reflect the socio economic structure of the society it serves. Can people like Cameron, Osbourne and indeed Clegg And Blair and Brown and Balls etc etc. have the insight needed to help/understand everyone in our country?

tree magnet, a checkout worker may have all the correct skills to be a prime minister or an MP, but you are just taking an extreme view. I didnt say MP's had to come from the majority just that more a mix may be beneficial.

Much as I loathe him, George Galloway refutes this.

True, but what cabinet post do you think he will be offered?

Gorgeous George is, at least, not (to quote Ben Elton c1983) "a grey suit full of **** all".

doesnt sound working class to me:

There's been a couple of TV programs where politicians went out and lived the lives of people at the lower end of the economy
Michael Portillo and Matthew Parris spring to mind but there are others.

I've not seen one that wasn't totally shocked by the experience and I'm positive it made them better politicians

Be careful what you wish for. Tommy Sheridan used to be flag boy for the working classes up in Scotland, and we all know how well that turned out. I blame myself, I voted for his party (no women in my electorate that year) and he got in on the list MP system.

Be careful what you wish for.

Just as not every working-class person is a good egg, not every old-Etonian is out to feather their own nest at the expense of the rest of us. But it's not unreasonable to say that politicians would benefit from a little more life experience, no?

I like properly posh people. They have nice manners.

The most high-profile MP from a working class background that I can think of is Maggie. Be careful what you wish for...

Errmm- shopkeepers daughter - middle class

Errmm- shopkeepers daughter - middle class

I like properly posh people. They have nice manners.

So they're frightfully polite as they inform you that, frightfully sorry old chap but your living standards are going to have to drop significantly, as myself and my chums don't see why we should pay any tax

John Major is a pretty good example of someone who came from humble beginnings.

John Major was just a useful idiot to the Tory elite. And not even that for the rest of us

your living standards are going to have to drop significantly, as myself and my chums don't see why we should pay [u][b]any[/b][/u] tax

Any tax? wouldnt it be more accurate to wonder why a small minority has to pay the majority of the taxes?

Do you think the fire brigade comes to your house faster if you pay more tax? shouldnt everyone pay an equal amount?

Does fairness not demand equality.

[IMG] [/IMG]

There seems to be an assumption that being educated in the most expensive and elitist schools and universities makes you intelligent. Nothing further from the truth.

Only a very small % of OxBridge places go to non-paying students. A good proportion of the students from public schools and overseas students gain entry via the the cheque book.

Elitist education = elitist employment oppertunity = elitist political postions or influence = career politicians.

Like others have said, no real life experience.

Can a working class person become an MP these days?

The most high-profile MP from a working class background that I can think of is Maggie. Be careful what you wish for...

Eric Pickles?
John Prescott?

OMG zulu has turned up with a graph and completely unrelated rant... mods please close the thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Major was just a useful idiot to the Tory elite. And not even that for the rest of us

I am sure he speaks highly of you too. It does not change the fact that he came from humble beginnings yet held the highest political office in the land.

Any tax? wouldnt it be more accurate to wonder why a small minority has to pay the majority of the taxes?

Yes, we've all seen the West Wing.

You forgot to add that poor people pay a higher percentage of their income in tax, than any other group.

Good on him but that was what? 20 years ago?

yet held the highest political office in the land.

It's what he did in that office with Edwina Currie that gives me nightmares

Only a very small % of OxBridge places go to non-paying students. A good proportion of the students from public schools and overseas students gain entry via the the cheque book.

Sorry but this is not true.

It is true that a chequebook will help you get a better education by sending you too a good school and hence making you appear smarter, but you don't get into a top uni without the grades.

And more to the point, you don't get into Oxford or Cambridge even if you have top marks in all your A-levels if you don't have good interviews - I was a case in point 😀

Obviously the education thing helps with that too ( So I have no excuse 😉 ), but the claims that money directly buys places at Oxbridge (to any significant degree - I'm sure it's happened at some point) are just wrong.

But back to the OP, yes, there should be efforts made to remove the barriers that exist to poorer people getting into politics. None of the main parties are doing anything about that whether it be the ConDems or Labour.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

not not more or at least up ere we arent

i am lower class

self employed

meaning?

He then, as his father and elder brother had done before him, moved to Gordonstoun, in northern Scotland, and was appointed Head Boy in his last term. *** obtained a C-grade and two D-grades at A-level,[5] and after his schooling spent a gap year abroad, working as a house tutor and junior master for two terms in September 1982 at the Wanganui Collegiate School in New Zealand.

Upon his return to Britain, *** matriculated at Jesus College, Cambridge, to read history

Can you name this Royal?

you forgot to add that poor people pay a higher percentage of their income in tax, than any other group.

They should stop spending so much on beer and fags then!

The government could maybe lower the tax on petrol as well, that should have the greenies up in arms.

Job jobbed!

meaning?

you want to have a low income to pay less tax, was simply a joke sorry if it offended.

clubber a council house origin mate of mine got in to cambridge on less than good grades because of their interview and extra curricular performance.

Exactly. A classic case of cream rising to the top which is fine for the very best from poorer backgrounds but there's a lot of people who are equally able as those that do get in from better off backgrounds but don't because they're outperformed at exams/interviews because they've not had the same level of support.

no offece taken just dint know what you meant
maybe i should read the thread properly

toys19 does the fact that someone from a council estate would get into Cambridge being worthy of comment not prove that something is wrong?

JY - that would be Prince Edward, Prince Charles only had two A levels, Edward was supposed to be the bright one. That said Gordonstoun wasn't regarded as an academic school.

toys19 does the fact that someone from a council estate would get into Cambridge being worthy of comment not prove that something is wrong?

a) I never said something wasn't wrong with being able to buy a better education. We both know its wrong.
b) I only commented on it to prove that the poster who said anyone can buy their way into a top uni as not true. I was not saying "oooh isnt it amazing, this council hosue guy went to cambridge." Only a reasonably intelligent person can buy their way into a top uni, and only a very intelligent person will get in and make it into politics.

41% of the youth going into HE. Chav population growing out of control. Apologies to those who chose not to, or failed to gain a place at uni, but there may become a dividing line in society, those that went into HE and those that didn't. Also, those that went to not-oxbrdge-not-russell-group uni might find themselves not really being middle class.

Many people 'think' they are middle class, but the fact is that those pouring out of HE nowadays may find that, unable to get on the housing ladder and working just a few paychecks away from oblivion they are not in fact middle class. When the government sucks everyones money away, treats the population like stray dogs, whilst flaunting their own money and their lobbyist friends money in our faces, society will change to something far worse than what Maggie's government brought to life.

Teachers are middle class? Poorly paid for what they do, but yes, the 40% that survive past 2 years are. But I'm willing to bet that teachers, under solid anonymity, might want to rage about those they pass through the system who aren't up to the job.

working just a few paychecks away from oblivion they are not in fact middle class

I'd suggest that's always been most middle class people.

Haven't read the thread entirely(thank god), but this:

Basically, whatever colour the government, we're ruled by a remote, cossetted elite who snear at everyone outside their own immediate circle.

Is where it's at. The selection process for the three main political parties are run in such a way so as to keep as many "ordinary folk" out. They simply want to minimise the local hero MP who will put the concerns of their constituents ahead of the party line.

We are in an induced state of political apathy, Induced by those in Westminster.

Many people 'think' they are middle class, but the fact is that those pouring out of HE nowadays may find that, unable to get on the housing ladder and working just a few paychecks away from oblivion they are not in fact middle class. When the government sucks everyones money away, treats the population like stray dogs, whilst flaunting their own money and their lobbyist friends money in our faces, society will change to something far worse than what Maggie's government brought to life.

I'd be inclined to agree with this to an extent. For recent graduates, there's not that much to look forward to - several years perhaps working in unskilled, insecure jobs, no hope of getting on the housing ladder or building any financial security.

However, I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that society as a whole is responsible for the economic situation as it is. Rich, poor, the vast majority of society bought into consumer culture, the "have-it-now" and the fetishization of luxury celeb lifestyle. The banks lent it irresponsibly, and borrowers at all levels spent it irresponsibly. Of course, the crisis has hit people harder who had less to begin with, and all we see is the richer in society going "I'm alright Jack" and of course, it makes us angry. But I think the situation we are in is actually a symptom of us chasing a fairly skewed set of social values - property and money before people, mainly, and I don't think that set of values is confined to a particular class of individuals - it spans society as a whole.

Well you see if cameron hadnt gone to posh school with rebekah brooks posh husband and been at the brooks for posh xmas dinner with james murdoch and had a conversation with james murdoch about the bskyb takeover which james murdoch is now bitter about and blabbing to levenson.
.....And cameron hadnt appointed posh boy jeremy hunt to replace posh boy vince cable on the bskyb oversight thingy, who then set up a series of secret, undecleared and ilegal meetings and conversations between his posh self and bsksybs posh chief lobbyist then posh boy jeremy hunt wouldnt have ok'd bskybs takeover and poshboy jeremy hunt wouldnt be being forced? to resign.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17829360

They should stop spending so much on beer and fags then!

Or electricity, gas, clothing and council tax.

John Prescott?

Got to ask at what point he stopped being working class though. A LONG time ago. I don't know if he ever really associated with his background when he was deputy PM and honestly, being from Hull, I can say that nobody ever really associated him with being from where we were (even the admittedly middle-class suburb I lived in).

I don't care about their backgrounds as long as they do their jobs properly. I don't see how just starting from a working class beginning would make you more qualified to lead the country. If that was true, Stalinist Russia would have been a utopia as they'd demolished most of the other classes before long.

For Nadine Dorries read Caroline Flint and (in the next few years) Louise Mensch.

Nasty, hair-flicking, opportunists who turn around and scratch your eyes out the first time you don't give them the job or credo they think they deserve. The 'type' is becoming very prevalent - both Flint and Dorries struggled to hide a smile while turning traitor. Sickening self-promotion.

Posh? No problem - so long as you're competent. I assume all the people who say Cameron and Osborne cannot comment on issues affecting the poor will also agree that anyone who has dragged themselves up from humble beginnings cannot comment on inheritance tax - for example. Just the usual trite, point-scoring shite.

If they are arrogant, then that is more of a problem, but again, Dorries has all the hallmarks of a nasty, hair-pulling playground bully. Snide.

I wouldn't want the lower classes in power - look at the state of them

Politicians have a lot of power in our society so they have to know about life in the real world . The problem is that Cameron , Osborne and the rest have no idea how ordinary people live. Their deficit reduction plan is not working and they don't care whether it does or not because it won't affect them anyway. We need growth in the economy and a new government to get it started

Epic thread resurection!

wasn't there a ruling passed in the peoples parliament that arrogant posh boys should be routinely whacked in the knackers with a cricket bat..?