You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
So, we just had an armed police siege in the street, 3 ARV cars, 8 or 10 armed officers plus a shed load of normal officers to close off the street.
The chap they were after had called for a paramedic at 10.30 this morning and by 14:30, for some reason they deployed a very large force to check on him. We're talking 6 officers pointing assault rifles at the door, bullet proof shields and another squad in the back garden.
Eventually he came out, wasn't arrested, just handcuffed, searched then handed off to paramedics. After a very quick search of his house, they all left...
They kept shouting "You're not in any trouble, we're just here to check on your welfare". Full marks for professionalism they were perfectly calm, very courteous and very cautious.
What I don't understand is what criteria must have been met to deploy such a massive force to assist two young paramedics, who were kept waiting up the street?
And if they thought he might have a gun, no serious effort was made to look for it after he left the house (they were in the house for 10 mins max).
It was just across the road, so had a perfect view of the whole thing from the bedroom window, could hear every radio call to/from control and between all the officers.
Was pretty impressed to be honest, totally professional.
Maybe he holds a firearms license and was threatening to harm himself?
I think it must come down to their Duty of Care for their employees and the corresponding risk assessment.
If the trigger point is reached for an armed response, then you are sending your employees into harms way and potential death, then you must deploy everything you have to mitigate it.
Maybe he holds a firearms license and was threatening to harm himself?
I would have expected more effort to remove the firearm from the property...
If the trigger point is reached for an armed response, then you are sending your employees into harms way and potential death, then you must deploy everything you have to mitigate it.
Probably this, just curious what the trigger point is - it was one hell of a response, makes Line of Duty look seriously understaffed. Probably most of the on duty Police force from Cambridgeshire and Peterborough - we're a provincial backwater...
Maybe he holds a firearms license and was threatening to harm himself?
Most likely. Have had experience of this when my mum was having a breakdown and I had a firearm registered at our address. We only had two units and 4 officers turn up while we put mum in an ambulance and they were brilliant once I had told them the firearm wasn't on site (sold it a few months before and they hadn't updated their records). No-one outside of the family knew they had been called as it was 3am so people just saw an ambulance and police cars.
I would have expected more effort to remove the firearm from the property…
How do you know they didn't?
How do you know they didn’t?
I was 8m away videoing the whole thing, could hear every word they said, the house opposite bar one...
You need to watch more Traffic Police Interceptor Cops for full details.
There must be a resident armed police STW member?
We have just about every other profession..
<p>Maybe mentioned he had a weapon or the ambulance crew reported him with on and threatening them. The police are excellent when our crews call for help, they make sure we are safe. </p>
We had them pay a visit many years ago. One of my house mates was letting off bangers, neighbour phoned the police and said he had a gun. They turned up guns out. All very serious. As soon as they worked out what had actually happened and there were no guns involved they totally changed attitude. Totally relaxed, all very happy, and left.
The chap in question has had the Police visit before for welfare visits and they were super cautious, ensuring he came out first, then cuff, then search, then go back in for the actual welfare chat. Normally just two constables.
This was a whole new level..
Sounds like the guy is very vulnerable and obviously well-known to the various authorities.
When I lived down south quite a lot of the armed officers around Gatwick airport were members at the gym. Definitely one of those jobs where the responsibility and risk results in some dark humour, but all very genuine guys that I met.
When I lived down south quite a lot of the armed officers around Gatwick airport were members at the gym.
Flying squad?
I was 8m away videoing the whole thing
Ever thought of minding your own business?
"I was 8m away videoing the whole thing, could hear every word they said, the house opposite bar one…"
Rubbernecking is a derogatory term primarily used to refer to bystanders staring at accidents
When we were giving Cpr to my best mate, we had some "star" film us on his phone.
If you can't help, walk away.
If you can’t help, walk away.
It was happening right outside the front door...
Ever thought of minding your own business?
Surely it is sort of your business if it's happening right outside your front door. Wife was stuck at one end of the street with the shopping defrosting waiting to be able to get back to the house.
Rather hard to avoid it and fascinating to watch.
What Drac said.
. Wife was stuck at one end of the street with the shopping defrosting waiting to be able to get back to the house
[img]
[/img]
There was a threat to life. You’ll almost certainly never know whether it was “I’m going to kill myself with this shotgun” (unlikely that suicide threat handled with high profile full armed response) or “I’m going to stab the first paramedic that walks through the door” or any one of a hundred other options.
Regardless of that stuff though, was the shopping ok? Pretty warm day so it’s been troubling me…
Last year one of our neighbours was having a (clear in hindsight) mental health episode, and was noticed in the middle of the night clambering through the gardens of our terraced street. He then called 999 himself, and explained that he was being chased by armed men.
Consequently a helicopter spent the next 30 mins pointing a spotlight at the gadrdens around us, and 4 blokes with automatic weapons borrowed our ladder to hop over the fences.
On the one hand, it was clearly a massive waste of time for circa 20 highly trained and very professional police people. On the other, they had no way to know that for sure. And if you think there might be a person pointing a gun your way, you have to take the situation seriously.
Overall, I was left with a very high opinion of the women and men at the pointiest end of the policing profession.
The chap in question has had the Police visit before for welfare visits and they were super cautious, ensuring he came out first, then cuff, then search, then go back in for the actual welfare chat. Normally just two constables.
in that case you can be pretty sure he doesn’t have a firearms license - anyone who gets that type of visit isn’t going to meet the police assessment of who should have access to guns
I think you can be sure that whilst your ice cream may have defrosted before it got to you, you weren’t having the worst day of everyone in the street! If he’s a neighbour you presumably know more about him and his household/lifestyle etc than anyone here so will be able to make your own guesses as what might have triggered it. I’m not sure I could come back to my street after causing that - there’s enough ill-informed judgment here without adding to that.
There must be a resident armed police STW member?
there certainly was in the past (possibly not posted since the hack!) and he’s retired now. I doubt he’d tell you magic words that trigger (or avoid) that response because some **** would misuse that information.
I can tell you though that if the gas company come with a warrant to fit a prepayment meter and you tell them to **** off or you will cut through the gas pipe and blow the house up you get a somewhat similar response!
Round our way (Somerset) you can call 999 for police and you’re lucky if anyone turns up. I know this from personal experience ( several incidents of assaults with no response). However, any whiff of firearms and you seem to get a hefty and swift response. I get the level of risk, but the level of harm potentially people are being exposed to by lack of response to serious but non firearm incidents is disproportionately high.
Surely it is sort of your business if it’s happening right outside your front door.
Nope, it means it's next doors' business.
Given that what was going on a clearly a very difficult situation for your neighbour, your options were to give them a bit of space and dignity, not to mention get out of the way of the emergency services who to trying to deal with it, or, frankly, to gawp and video it like a moron.
Nothing like a an internet pile-on when someone makes a decision that in retrospect might be unwise to confess to.
If FF was 6' 3", stood in front of you and looking likely to thwap you, would you accuse him of being a moron? 😃
If FF was 6′ 3″, stood in front of you and looking likely to thwap you, would you accuse him of being a moron? 😃
If you're going to, can you hang on 2 seconds while I get my phone onto video mode?
Surely it is sort of your business if it’s happening right outside your front door.
Nope, it means it’s next doors’ business.Given that what was going on a clearly a very difficult situation for your neighbour, your options were to give them a bit of space and dignity, not to mention get out of the way of the emergency services who to trying to deal with it, or, frankly, to gawp and video it like a moron.
It was just across the road, so had a perfect view of the whole thing from the bedroom window, could hear every radio call to/from control and between all the officers.
IHN - try reading it again, or is your reading comprehension not up to scratch. 🙄
CZ - do you think this bit:
I was 8m away videoing the whole thing,
was maybe what provoked a response from others and maybe questioning peoples reading comprehension when either you’ve missed that or ignored it was not the best way to show you were better than the person calling someone a moron?
IHN – try reading it again, or is your reading comprehension not up to scratch.
You know what, fair enough, I'd missed the 'standing at the bedroom window' bit, so I retract my comment about getting in the way of the emergency services, but I stand by the rest.
I was (now retired) an AFO, manned an ARV for 20 years along with other specialist firearms duties. I suspect reading what I have from the above, you are reasonably spot on regarding a person being in the house, either making threats regarding his own safety or the safety of others who may enter the premises. As others have alluded to, that safety may not be via a gun. it may be a knife, blowing up the property or opening a phial of anthrax!!!! Once that threat to safety to the individual or others is mitigated any (proportionate) response can be stood down. As for time scales. It's unfortunate about the shopping, but these things take a considerable amount of time to implement. Resources are not always immediately available. Other officers may have travel a considerable distance. Once everything is in place then the officers can move forward. That said if there had been an 'immediate threat to life' then a small number of AFO's could have responded more quickly.
Officers at the scene are fairly switched on. If they knew neighbours were watching and videoing, but knew that they were either no threat to escalation or in no danger, then why should they be removed? If the OP had been requested to close his door, perhaps close the curtains or even leave the house, then things may have been a bit more serious and I'm sure he would have done so.
Ever thought of minding your own business?
WTF? The OP has armed police swarming around outside his house so videos it from his bedroom and then people pile on with nonsense like this. Let's face it, if it's happening outside your window, you aren't doing anyone any harm watching like most normal people would do. If anything actually does happen, the more video evidence there is, the better. If the police do their jobs professionally, independent video will exonerate them if complaints are made. If the police behave unprofessionally, having video evidence of that is important to protecting the public. Either way, having a video of it is in the public good.
Thanks @yosemitepaul. I love it when a grownup enters these types of conversations and responds in a calm and considerate manner.
I never stand anywhere near incidents anymore after one on the street I was born on.
Two car loads of gangsters turned up, started shooting at each other. Only person to get hit was a teenage girl bystander, looking out of her 1st floor bedroom window. She died.
We learn from mistakes. Best to learn from other people's mistakes
Id probably also watch from a discreet distance if it happened next door to me. But videoing your neighbour getting cuffed by the police at a clearly very difficult time for them…nah, that’s a bit of a dick move tbh
put it this way, if the shoe was on the other foot would you be happy knowing all your neighbours had video footage of the incident?
I would absolutely hope my neighbours would film. These things sadly too often go wrong with terrible consequences and a lack of footage as to what happened.
Edit: I would also probably hope my neighbours wouldn't go chatting about it afterwards, or posting about it on the internet, and that they would keep the footage to themselves unless it was needed.
If the police behave unprofessionally, having video evidence of that is important to protecting the public.
Its pretty hard for a large number of officers in those kind of situations to all have their bodycam footage and radio messages all vanish.
Lessons have been learned in the UK.
I think a possible over response is better than an under response.
Its pretty hard for a large number of officers in those kind of situations to all have their bodycam footage and radio messages all vanish.
https://www.khon2.com/always-investigating/police-body-camera-footage-missing-in-hundreds-of-cases/
https://statescoop.com/body-cam-footage-missing-in-big-chunk-of-dc-cop-complaint-cases/
I was 8m away videoing the whole thing
Why?
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/06/metro/muted-blurred-or-missing-footage-lawyers-say-police-bodycam-policies-have-no-real-teeth-court/ <> https://www.khon2.com/always-investigating/police-body-camera-footage-missing-in-hundreds-of-cases/ < https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/key-body-camera-footage-missing-after-chicago-police-officers-raid-wrong-homes-point-guns-at-children/
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/paterson-press/2022/03/10/missing-haledon-nj-man-paterson-wont-release-police-body-cam-footage/9452690002/
https://statescoop.com/body-cam-footage-missing-in-big-chunk-of-dc-cop-complaint-cases/
All from the US. If you could find some from the UK it would be significantly more applicable
I was 8m away videoing the whole thing
Why?
I am guessing because of this:
"It was just across the road, so had a perfect view of the whole thing from the bedroom window, could hear every radio call to/from control and between all the officers."
Do you believe footflaps should have ignored the whole incident and carried on watching the telly?
It would have been a strange response to "6 officers pointing assault rifles at the door". Although admittedly very cool.
Do you believe footflaps should have ignored the whole incident and carried on watching the telly?
There's a distance between ignoring it and watching the telly, and watching and videoing the whole thing.
I know I kicked off the 'mind your own business thing', but I get the curiosity and yes, I would probably be keeping an eye on it out of the window. Not standing watching the whole thing mind, that just seems a bit rubbernecky, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be checking occasionally to see what was going on.
Videoing it though - that, for me, is another level (and if anyone says their driver for doing so was the public good, my response would be 'aye, right').
If you could find some from the UK it would be significantly more applicable
Many years ago I had armed police turn up at the communal front door of the converted house I had a flat in.
I went to the front window - to see who has happening the front door to be faced by a
police firearm officer - holding a n MP5 au machine gun. He rapidly signed to be to remain silent and to lie down on the floor. Subsequently, they broke the communal front door down - searched the top flat and not finding the suspect, who was a brother of the guy living there, promptly left. The brother was wanted for shooting a man in a pub.
Quite a few years after that, I had to stop a uniformed police officer for trying to open my car. He insisted it was a police armed response car and he could open it if he wanted. I said he couldn’t as it was my car and he could run the registration to check. He didn’t believe me - so I used the remote key to reactivate the locks on the already locked car. He then walked off muttering without apologising for his mistake. Probably thought it was my fault for having the same model as their armed response vehicles.
: I would also probably hope my neighbours wouldn’t go chatting about it afterwards, or posting about it on the internet, and that they would keep the footage to themselves unless it was needed.
To be fair this is a reasonably anonymous forum unless we know a user in the real world or they post a lot about their personal life most of us don't know real names and locations, at most rough idea of area.
The incident is described without personally identifiable detail to avoid revealing identity of those involved.
Dont see the problem. Not sure I would fe comfortable videoing it however.
I bet local Facebook group had little reservation though.
Sounds like someone has found a way to avoid waiting hours for an ambulance.
"I'm about to shoot myself with MY GUN"
To be fair this is a reasonably anonymous forum unless we know a user in the real world or they post a lot about their personal life most of us don’t know real names and locations, at most rough idea of area.
The incident is described without personally identifiable detail to avoid revealing identity of those involved.
Dont see the problem. Not sure I would fe comfortable videoing it however.
I suspect many here do know where FF lives,see rate my brickie and he pretty much tells everyone. 🤣. Still love that thread.
Not standing watching the whole thing mind
At which point do you think footflaps should have stopped watching before going away to check what was on the telly?
The point where 6 officers were pointing assault rifles at the door?
And thinking "no one will believe this, I'll record it on my phone" is a fairly normal reaction imo.
A couple of years ago I witnessed gang related stabbings a few feet away (at one point a few inches) whilst sitting in my car, I regretted afterwards not attempting to video it, it might have proved useful. Although I am not sure how much protection BMW central locking gives!
Sounds like someone has found a way to avoid waiting hours for an ambulance.
“I’m about to shoot myself with MY GUN”
Emm, if I understood the OP correctly it took 4 hours so not sure its the best way!
And thinking “no one will believe this, I’ll record it on my phone” is a fairly normal reaction imo.
Its certainly not an abnormal reaction. That doesn't make it right. Worst case you might be about to watch someone get shot which doesn't sound like something most people would rush to do. Best case you've just videos your neighbour having some sort of breakdown but captured the evidence that the police were absolutely professional in how they dealt with it.
Do you really think its "no one will believe this"? Or just the inane way social media has "trained" us all to react and then post our whole lives?
If filming it was likely to be a problem then I'm sure that the police would have done something to mitigate that, screens, clear the facing properties, etc.
Police are filmed frequently by "auditors" and others looking for a reaction and I imagine that they're quite used to it. I can't see that FF has caused anyone a problem, give the guy a break 🙂
Sounds like someone has found a way to avoid waiting hours for an ambulance.
“I’m about to shoot myself with MY GUN”
Emm, if I understood the OP correctly it took 4 hours so not sure its the best way!
Only 4 hours? Where is this nirvana?
I’m willing to bet at least half the people having a go at footflaps would’ve done the exact same thing. Bit of excitement in an otherwise boring existence.
I once had my whole road cordoned off due to some sort of stand off with armed police. Only found out when I woke up after a heavy night out to a shit tonne of texts from people asking me what was happening. Never did find out.
It wouldnt be my first reaction to start videoing. It does appear to unfortunately be a built in response of people these days. I do wonder if its because people are so used to watching adverse situations on the mobile device that it has become a learned response (a comfort thing) to start recording on their mobile.
Yes I would watch through my window, its voyeuristic, and who wouldnt.
For those saying it can be filmed for evidence of police misconduct. I would like to think that rather than filming someone getting abused by the Police, people would challenge them at least, rather than just filming. Film secondary yes, but first directly challenge or call 999.
Op hasnt yet said why he started filming.
I’m willing to bet at least half the people having a go at footflaps would’ve done the exact same thing.............I once had my whole road cordoned off due to some sort of stand off with armed police
A slightly abbreviated version of the actual event - bloke and two girls were walking up the road vandalising cars. We confronted them, bloke sank to his knees and bit me, so I walloped him around the head, once, because at this point, I was pushed away by someone with the words, 'Step aside, I'm a bouncer'. (No lie!) I stood aside, just in time to see half a dozen police vans arrive, with dogs and everything bar firearms. The two girls ran off up the street. One of them was clothes-lined by my aunt sticking her arm out of her front door. It was a quiet night in the police station, I was told by one of them later. It certainly wasn't a quiet night on our street and sadly this was pre-smart phone so no videos. Or maybe not sadly. 😀
Do you really think its “no one will believe this”? Or just the inane way social media has “trained” us all to react and then post our whole lives?
Have you got any evidence that footflaps has posted it on social media? Armed police turning up in your road opposite your house is a fairly unusual occurrence, why not film it to show your brother/mother/friend?
There is no evidence that footflaps filmed anything gruesome. The idea that the whole incident should have been simply ignored, despite occurring a few feet away from you, is bizarre.
The idea that the whole incident should have been simply ignored, despite occurring a few feet away from you, is bizarre.
Other than one response no one is saying they would just ignore it. Filming it is the issue.
It wouldnt be my first reaction to start videoing.
How do you know it was footflaps first reaction?
There is no evidence that footflaps filmed anything gruesome. The idea that the whole incident should have been simply ignored, despite occurring a few feet away from you, is bizarre.
You dont need to ignore the event, and indeed talking it through with Auntie Ethal may help you deal with what was an unusual 'traumatic' event.
However why film someone who is clear vulnerable in having a mental health crisis, to show to Auntie Ethal, its not her business, or Op's to be spreading info about someone's situation.
At which point do you think footflaps should have stopped watching before going away to check what was on the telly?
The point at which it started to feel a bit distasteful to keep watching, given what was going on.
The idea that the whole incident should have been simply ignored, despite occurring a few feet away from you is bizarre.
Indeed, which is why no-one, even me the arch antivideo-er, has actually said that. There is, however, a point at which obvious curiosity becomes morbid rubbernecking.
However why film someone who is clear vulnerable in having a mental health crisis
I have just re-read the OP in case I had misunderstood footflaps intentions. Having done so it seems very clear to me that his primary interest was how the police conducted themselves, which he described as "very professional".
I got the impression that he felt he was filming a police operation, not someone having a mental health crisis.
The title of the thread speaks of armed police protocol, which suggests that was the primary interest.
However why film someone who is clear vulnerable in having a mental health crisis
I honestly can’t be arsed reading back but I think he was talking about and filming the police response. Don’t recall talk from the OP about sharing anything with anyone either. Just seemed like praise for professional behaviour from the police. It’s not like he’s started a thread entitled ‘Lolz at the nutcase next door” and proceeded to post a video.
We live in an age where a lot of individuals and the state film everything that happens.
Once again, the usual suspect can't let a thread pass without seeing an opportunity to turn it into his own personal argument.
FWIW I'm with IHN. Take a look by all means but filming is just in poor taste, especially if it's a regular enough occurrence to have police turn up. Leave the poor bugger alone to enjoy whatever dignity he has. Yes it's legal but legality is just the bare minimum.
I bet you filmed in portrait too.
It was a genuine enquiry. OP has gone 🤐 but would like to know motivation rather than speculation.
Well the OP did get a very long and comprehensive answer to his questions from yosemitepaul who was an AFO and manned an armed response vehicle for twenty years, which I guess was all that he was after.
Ok, to add to Yosemitepaul; I’ve added the “criteria for arming” below: when you read this the most important thing you should consider is the threshold level of the deployment of armed Police as “reason to suppose”, which is an incredibly low threshold. To clarify deployment of armed resources is VERY different to Police use of a firearm, such as a discharge.
“Otherwise so dangerous” is key here too. It can cover a huge number of scenarios/incidents from a person deliberately using a vehicle as a weapon to someone self harming or attempting suicide.
”Where an officer authorising the deployment has 'reason to suppose' that officers may have to protect themselves or others from a person who is in possession of, or has immediate access to, a firearm or other potentially lethal weapon, or is otherwise so dangerous that the deployment of armed officers is considered to be appropriate, or as an operational contingency in a specific operation, or for the destruction of animals which are dangerous or are suffering unnecessarily.”
Do you live opposite Dave Jenvey?