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Brilliant, looks like we’re both agreed that orange marches are a perfectly acceptable expression of religious freedom then. Cheers.
Personally I'd ban them purely on musical grounds. Once they learn to play in tune with each other I'd have no problem with them marching although that may require a little too much commitment on a regular basis for them to stomach. They'd also need to have routes that aren't designed to deliberately antagonise others on the basis of "tradition".
Got woke up this morning by drums going by my front window.
tbh, my opinion is leave them to it, ignore them is the correct response. I'm pretty certain the general attendance looks older every year, and there's less hangers on. mibbe not as noticeable on the big days they have, but certainly is on the lesser walks. They'll die out naturally imo, no need to do anything. Or even talk about them in the internet.
Let them carry on. Their refusal to let go of their tradition will / is bringing their demise.
So just a quick recap on everyone who might be Arseholes.
Arlene Foster
The DUP
The Orange Order
Some Muslims
Some Protestants
Me
Ninfan.
Surgeons
Batman.
Have I missed anyone out?
The comparison between the DUP and Islamic extremists is a fair one...
Especially as the DUP has received significant funding from a donor with links to the Saudi intelligence services...
Quick reminder; the Saudi state sponsors wahhabism and has inherent links to extremists; see the Terrorism thread for more:
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/terrorism/
For bonus points, can anyone say what links this photo of Charles Blandford Farr (head of the UK's Joint Intelligence Committee), and the DUP receiving funds from terrorist supporting Saudis?
I just saw this represensible individual describing the demonstrations of joy and release evidenced by happy women in the Republic at finally attaining the same rights available to their sex elsewhere in Europe, as "childish antics".
How vile.
I daresay of great concern to her is yet more loosening of the grip on the Republic of the catholic church, in the ongoing process of the gnawing away by secular ethics of the particular set of ludicrous superstitions to which she herself ascribes (in the main, being a member of a particular sub-sect of same)...
For bonus points, can anyone say what links this photo of Charles Blandford Farr (head of the UK’s Joint Intelligence Committee), and the DUP receiving funds from terrorist supporting Saudis?
No we can't. Can you?
It's a photo of people in a room. I've been photographed with Tom Baker, that doesn't make me a Doctor Who companion.
<mod>If you want to make an on-topic point then make it. If you're planning on derailing the thread with pages of photos of people in rooms accompanied by vague whataboutery then I'll give you a week off so that adults* can have a discussion.</mod>
(* - and ninfan)
No bonus points for you I'm afraid Cougy baby
The all have a pulse, they are all cold blooded? One of them is a witch?
There's a clue in here somewhere...
The shadowy donor group that gave the Democratic Unionist Party £425,000 during the Brexit referendum campaign has links to the former Director General of the Saudi intelligence service – also the father of the current Saudi Ambassador to the UK – openDemocracy can reveal.The donation to Arlene Foster’s party – which was used to fund key Leave campaign advertisements across the UK in the run up to the European referendum – was initially kept hidden because of Northern Ireland’s donor secrecy laws. However, under pressure from activists after openDemocracy revealed how Brexit campaigners were funnelling dark money through Northern Ireland to fund “Take Back Control” adverts, the Democratic Unionist Party was forced last night to reveal its major donor to be a group calling itself the Constitutional Research Council.
Little is known about the Constitutional Research Council, including where it got these funds from. However, we do know one thing: it is chaired by the Scottish Conservative Richard Cook.
demonstrations of joy and release evidenced by happy women in the Republic at finally attaining the same rights available to their sex elsewhere in Europe
Yay for more dead babies!
It appears my list was a couple of names short ☹️
A foetus is not a 'baby' but then you knew that already.
You're just being a dick, as usual.
Prior to the referendum in Ireland there were several high profile cases of mothers dying due to known complications during pregnancy (I can't remember the correct terminology) wherin doctors could have saved the mother's life but where unable to act due to legislation.
It might be too big a statement for one person to make (or back up) but my impression is that most people are ethically pro life, but there have to be provisions in place to prevent women from dying / worst case scenarios. Anyway, I digress.
When Arlene goes over can you just keep her please? It's British culture she loves so dearly, she'll fit right in.
A foetus is not a ‘baby’ but then you knew that already.
You’re just being a dick, as usual.
Yet when a man stabs a pregnant woman in the stomach and kills the unborn child, normal people, society, is (rightly IMO) repulsed and regards it as far more serious than the basic stabbing offence
Strange eh?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32332040/too-hard-to-convict-people-of-harming-unborn-babies
No, not strange.
Wow.
I'm frankly amazed at how you're conducting yourself.
Lol at cougar and Perchy
In a word no.Strange eh?
Ninny, your little right wing world is dying away before your eyes. We are seeing the last hurrah's now.
I'm laughing.
Shirley, the premise of legalising abortion is that it is now a choice. A woman can now choose. It doesn't mean it's mandatory.
This sort of thing really does bring out the ****tard in the gammon.
And what colour are muslims, Einstein
Various colours depending on their genetics. A bit like Christians and atheists.
Various colours depending on their genetics. A bit like Christians and atheists.
Christians are white, just like Jesus!
Shirley, the premise of legalising abortion is that it is now a choice. A woman can now choose. It doesn’t mean it’s mandatory.
Yep it's all part of having the right to do what you want when it comes to personal freedoms, you get to pick the ones that suit you and impose your thoughts on others.
The thing about these orange order marches are they are deliberately stirring up trouble and religious hatred.
Its all about religious bigotry, nothing about practising religion.
Its the equivalent of the national front marching through southall
tjagain
The thing about these orange order marches are they are deliberately stirring up trouble and religious hatred.
Its all about religious bigotry, nothing about practising religion.
Its the equivalent of the national front marching through southall
Aaaand welcome to the last 200 odd years of Orangeism in Ireland. The only difference in Scotland being that they haven't been bolstered by political and military support at all levels of government.
you get to pick the ones that suit you and impose your thoughts on others
That's not very nice. Could be classed as totalitarian, I guess.
JHJ. Rather than asking rhetorical questions and then presenting your evidence. Can you just say what you think and why first. Would save a lot of the irritation people express and associated argy-bargy.
For once on a political thread I agree with ninfan. There is enough wrong Arlene Foster in terms of her politics, action and words - and critising her looks detracts from that. There is no need for ad-hominem attacks.
There is enough wrong Arlene Foster in terms of her politics, action and words – and critising her looks detracts from that.
You see after ninfan had a go at pointing that out I reread the thread, can you point out the bits you are referring to?
And what colour are muslims, Einstein?
Any colour you like, Islam is a faith, anyone can join. But you know that, don’t you. Don’t you?
Can you just say what you think and why first.
I think the whole thing stinks... from the moment Theresa May announced a coalition with the DUP, to the Vatican's stance on Abortion and johnnies (whilst being wholly ****ing saturated in child abuse) to the continued alliance between Her Majesty's Government, Saudi Arabia and Israel, supported by a vast and imposing propaganda machine.
All the while, the vast majority just accept it, because of the constant brainwashing doled out by the plethora of shadowy think tanks and behind the scenes lobby groups who are so effective at gaslighting, that should anyone question the massive double standards, they are surrounded by an army of Agent Smiths, primed by subliminal groupthink.
To condense what I've said... if you wanna change the direction the world is headed, you've gotta scratch below the surface and ask awkward questions
On the simplest level:
Arlene Foster is one of many dollops in a global melting pot of shit
That is clear. No doubt.
ninfan/jamj
Found your examples yet?
Mike. Here is what I was referring to.
She’s an arsehole of a man.
Patience. I’m not here posting every minute of the day! 😉
I despise the woman and fundamentally disagree with most of ninfans political posts - including those here. This, despite it being a likely attempt to distract from ninfan - is the bit I agree with. Having a go at a woman by saying she looks like a man is not on in my book.
JHJ - we are not disagreeing here. I just think you should make your points more clearly and upfront - you would get more buy in!
Jamj
Thanks but
and critising her looks detracts from that. There is no need for ad-hominem attacks.
that would be one comment, not sure if it's referring to her looks, enough she has said would lead me to think she is a complete arsehole, intolerant and judgemental.
enough she has said would lead me to think she is a complete arsehole, intolerant and judgemental.
and just who is being the intolerant, judgemental arsehole now, mon petit choux?
So is that your one comment you are all getting so upset about??
I think if you take a look at Arlene Foster and the DUP they are intolerant as by the definition in the dictionary, they do not tolerate other people who are different from them,
Do we need the whataboutery pic again, I feel we are heading in that direction
There’s plenty of fact to justify mike’s view, ninfan
has links to the former Director General of the Saudi intelligence service
Who's been dead since 2015
Let’s not forget that ninfanny likes to support neo-nazi murderers when they drive their cars into anti fascist demonstrators (see the Charlottesville thread a while back).
funnily enough right to life counted for shit to him then. That’s what he’s like <i>flexible.</i>
but, hey, carry on digging that hole.
Does ninfan just like orange things? Marches or Trump he seems very enthusiastic about them. It's not politics it's just a colour fetish.
that would be one comment, not sure if it’s referring to her looks
Not her looks tbh, I mean, have you heard her speaking? She is completely without passion or compassion, hard hearted and a stern expression to match.
She's actually more robotic than manly, mibbe I should've said an arsehole of a robot?.
At least we were allowed to laugh at Ian Paisley....
looks like we’re both agreed that orange marches are a perfectly acceptable expression of religious freedom then.
If that not admission of a total loss, I don’t know what is.
Youve claimed spurious agreement (as if was a victory) from the one person on the thread who’s happily admitted he knows **** all about the subject matter. 😂
Genius.
At least we were allowed to laugh at Ian Paisley….
Yeah, like that time when he crashed his car into a tree.....
....and the IRA claimed they planted it.
😂😂😂
It's all democracy though - she/DUP got the votes. She's not the only disappointment that holds or has held political office in NI we even vote in terrorists! Then again look at the leaders in Westminster - Blair, Cameron, Corbyn etc, hardly the cream of society.
It’s all democracy though – she/DUP got the votes.
Not many though and for their minority of votes now hold disproportionate power.
Then again look at the leaders in Westminster – Blair, Cameron, Corbyn etc, hardly the cream of society.
Were they sectarian, homophobic, sexist and pushing their religious views on others?
My abiding perceptions of the Orange Lodge - saw Robbie Coltrane doing his Mason Boyne stand-up routine in Glasgow in the early 1980's.
I've asked a few OO guys what it is they're actually marching for? what do they really believe in? Never really got much of an answer. As bad as the republican march they have locally to us every year, wtf has a united Ireland got to do with Scotland? Another excuse for a piss up/wind up really. At least they only do it once right enough, not every bloody weekend....
Mason Boyne was tremendous.
If you really want a flavour of what it's all about, watch the Orange Lodge scene from Trainspotting 2.
It's one of the most sharply observed bits of comedy i've seen in years and it totally nails it.
That scene was the best thing in that film, tremendous. 🙂
It’s all democracy though – she/DUP got the votes.
Not many though and for their minority of votes now hold disproportionate power.
Then again look at the leaders in Westminster – Blair, Cameron, Corbyn etc, hardly the cream of society.
Were they sectarian, homophobic, sexist and pushing their religious views on others?
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">That's the way democracy works, certainly in the current UK climate anyway! Regardless of their views people still vote for them and presumably because of their views/policies...</span>
For reference the DUP represent 292,316 People.
People vote BNP - should they be able to go to an area with no racial issues and parade up and down celebrating lynching black folk?
thats what Foster is doing here - deliberatly stirring up religious bigotry and the bowler hatted lot by my understanding are celebrating kicking the heck out of Catholics
People vote BNP - should they be able to go to an area with no racial issues and parade up and down celebrating lynching black folk?
thats what Foster is doing here - deliberatly stirring up religious bigotry and the bowler hatted lot by my understanding are celebrating kicking the heck out of Catholics
Kicking the heck out of them in 1690, its now just another excuse for a drinking session. Leave them alone and it'll go away, its purposely stirred up on both sides and then we get recreational rioting/bigotry/hatred. That then keeps both extreme parties in business for another while. People vote for Sinn Fein and their rap sheet isn't exactly clean, again as its part of a democratic society that's accepted. Think you need to look towards the PM and who she does business with.
I agree ignoring them is best - successfully done when they organised a pro union rally in Edinburgh a while back. I just feel Fosters presence in fife will make it too hard to ignore for many leading to violence which I am fairly sure is her aim.
Personally I'd like to see the whole lot arrested for "incitement" or " behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace."
Were they sectarian, homophobic, sexist and pushing their religious views on others?
In the case of Blair it appears that his religious views were pushed on us :
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/opinion/the-twisted-religion-of-blair-and-bush.html
good reach there TG, about the best you can get is about 10% on one of the criteria 🙂
Still no good reason for Arlene to head off to incite some trouble is there.
Corbyn wouldn't condem IRA terrorism, Blair's WMD lies and war.
Arlene's school bus was bombed when she was 16 and her father shot in the head in a separate attack, I would probably be a bit bigoted after those events too!
sv Member
Corbyn wouldn’t condem IRA terrorism,
When did you stop beating your wife?
He refused to single out one terrorist organisation - a non story.
Isn't Arlene Foster going to save us from Brexit on account of her stance on NI customs?
sv
Kicking the heck out of them in 1690, its now just another excuse for a drinking session. Leave them alone and it’ll go away, its purposely stirred up on both sides and then we get recreational rioting/bigotry/hatred. That then keeps both extreme parties in business for another while.
They were formed as a sectarian murder gang in 1795* and they were backed militarily by the Irish Volunteers (essentially British army reserves). The Order has always been inextricably linked to sectarian murder and more recently loyalist terrorism. Loyalist paramilitary bands make up half of the bands on the 12th, it's only recently that the BBC have tried to edit them out. The order still acts as a credit union for it's members with the precise purpose of keeping land out of catholic hands. Which is nice.
The fact a blind eye is turned to giant bonfires, loyalist flags, painted kerb stones and millions each year is spent enabling them to march "traditional routes" is tacit approval of the blatant discrimination catholics have suffered for literally hundreds of years. It represents much more than a piss up, it's an open display of sectarianism, militarism, oppression and entitlement.
*pesky Catholics were disgruntled at being unable to vote, teach, own land, own weapons, adopt orphans, inherit land, own a horse worth more than £5 etc etc
Are we allowed to whisper, state sponsored terrorists? 😆
The biggest thing keeping them alive, is that they've always been "weighed in" monetarily in british society. That is coming to an end, the likes of the eco scandal is just the arse end of it, which will eventually see an end to the orange order, will take a while yet though.
Always amuses me people go on about the catholic/protestant religious divide, we'll aye technically that's true. But ultimately it's just where the lines lie, it's not the reason for it all. ()
The reasoning has always been about lining pockets. even the partition of ireland was all about keeping the industrial north in british hands.
It's handy at times to have a well armed loyal goons at your disposal in those circumstances.
Circumstances that don't really exist anymore. Their days are numbered.
The attitude of some republicans utterly baffles me too, given the unthinking nature of loyalist culture, it's not exactly the hardest political battle, a unified front aimed at taking a large swaithes of the orange/loyalist communities with them is the only route forward. Ostracise the rabid ones, with a charm offensive aimed and bringing the more reasonable side of the loyalist/orange community on board and you'll get a UI. It'll take time, but it's hardly like it'd be difficult to out do orangism in the cultural stakes. Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
[whisper] The IRA killed more Catholics than anybody else[\whisper]
The loyalists couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and if they did 95% of them would tell their handlers anyway. The terrorists on both sides are scum and we need to move on but that's not likely to happen soon. Look at the play park in Newry, common sense would say why do it?
How do you stop people supporting the DUP/SF/OO/AOH etc?
sv
[whisper] The IRA killed more Catholics than anybody else[\whisper]
Yeah, Cromwell probably begs to differ.
I agree ignoring them is best – successfully done when they organised a pro union rally in Edinburgh a while back. I just feel Fosters presence in fife will make it too hard to ignore for many leading to violence which I am fairly sure is her aim.
I don't really think that's the case tbh, she's just playing to her own crowd by keeping the scottish ties current. Ties that are pretty strong in orange/loyalist culture, the saltire is a fairly prevalent loyalist/orange flag in the north.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">jimjam
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<div class="">Member</div>
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sv
[whisper] The IRA killed more Catholics than anybody else[\whisper]
Yeah, Cromwell probably begs to differ.
</div>
I sure the Gaels weren't that friendly either when they invaded Ireland.
😆
Seosamh
The attitude of some republicans utterly baffles me too, given the unthinking nature of loyalist culture, it’s not exactly the hardest political battle, a unified front aimed at taking a large swaithes of the orange/loyalist communities with them is the only route forward. Ostracise the rabid ones, with a charm offensive aimed and bringing the more reasonable side of the loyalist/orange community on board and you’ll get a UI. It’ll take time, but it’s hardly like it’d be difficult to out do orangism in the cultural stakes. Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
I am sure not every republican reads James Joyce, and every unionist is in the Orange Order, I haven't heard that one side is more cultured than the other in this debate, but if that is the case I am not sure that love bombing the people of Ulster with classical music, Irish literature, ballet and fine French wine will bring about the cultural revolution you seek. Your argument is about as learned as me telling you my music taste is better than yours.
He refused to single out one terrorist organisation – a non story.
Seosamh
Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
Your argument is about as learned as me telling you my music taste is better than yours.
Not really. That's just your dim perception of my comment. I'd be more thinking along the lines of focusing on youth education and unemployment, figuring out how to take the peace wall down etc.
I'm all for normalisation. I actually reckon sinn fein are probably the best way to go about it. do they have their own baggage and issues they need to solve. aye of course, but tbh, they are the only vaguely realistic option (you have to give the likes of adams and mcguniess some credit there things like meeting the queen and going to downing street were massive steps and they've clearly been looking to pass things on to the next generation for a while). Like I say it'll still take a long time. be interesting to see where it all is in 10/20 years time, it's already a different place from 20 year ago. I'm sure I'm saying nothing alot of people in the 6 counties don't already know.
As someone who grew up with absolutely no religious denomination in the West coast of Scotland, but came from a family of Irish Catholics, when I was young my old man worked in construction and would be thrown off sites because of his NI Catholic heritage. I can also remember the joyous summers at my grandparents house south of Derry and regularly being stopped at army checkpoints and held there with machine guns pointed at us while the car was checked over. Good times...
Amazingly my entire family have managed to move on while knuckle draggers like Foster are happy to hop on the ferry to Stranraer for some bants in Fife
Seosamh
Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
Bringing people under one banner on an island towards a unified society. Your lack of sincerity on the subject does not give that statement from you much weight I am afraid.
Your hard of thinkingism, on most subjects, doesn't give you much gravitas either! 😆
Personally I think I'm fairly open about where my natural allegiances lie, unlike yourself. There's no lack of sincerity from me, I can quite easily question my own, and quite often do.
Adams and Mcguiness have made great strides. Many people have moved from very entrenched positions in the run up to and since the Good Friday agreement. I was in Belfast for a brief trip on the 20th anniversary of its signing. It is a shame we are at a impass in the NI Assembly, and both sides need heads cracked together. I have made my comments on the Orange Order and Arlene Foster on page 1. Scottish politicians have spoken well in saying that she would be far sorting out restarting the assembly.
Far from displaying cultural superiority (without resorting to tradition), whether you like it or not Republicanisms best route to a united Ireland is a change in the voting demographic over time, pure and simple.
I have no axe to grind with or for either side in the NI debate, and will honestly hold my hands up to say that I hold no opinion on where NI's future should lie. I feel the same with Catalonia, and have said so in the past. People living in these situations day in day out are far better placed than me to make these decisions. I am sorry if the fact that I am not a bowler hat donning, sash wearing, flute playing unionist disappoints you.