Arguments against IT staff in open plan office

What? No basement?

From an IT management view, surely your IP address would be a different subnet which would be dangerous if anyone hotdesks at your table

no one will be hotdesking, regardless, we have no additional rights from our desktops, all high level stuff is done on remote servers

If you've been there for 20 years and had your own office, and suddenly they want you to work open plan, I'd be telling them exactly where they can put those office plans...

The office I work in recently re-homed the IT guys from a cave in the back to a desk to have a walk up style IT bar. I think the days of hiding in caves for tech guys are numbered.

I think the days of hiding in caves for tech guys are numbered.

Yeah. No point hiding in an office when you can work remotely.

That would be crap - your colleagues would have to slag you off to your face !

No point hiding in an office when you can work remotely your job has been outsource to India.

🙂

You mean they aren't going to put you on a genius bar that folk can just walk up to?
You also need a completely open slack or teams channel that folk can log their requests on / ask their questions.

I think the days of hiding in caves for tech guys are numbered.

Quite right too.

@cougar will be along in a minute to put us right.

office at the back of the building, boss’s office is a sub office of this one, and behind him is our store room, comms rack etc etc

You make it sound like you are already in an open plan office that you happen to be the only occupant of. And your boss has an office in the same area.

I don’t think you have a technical argument, just a loss of status one

Last place I worked we had HR in an open plan space with hot desking around them. I'd think they routinely handled more sensitive info than stuff like giving someone an MFA code. There were small rooms where they could go if they wanted to discuss anything without being overheard, but most of their work was done in the open.

Get.Over.Yourself.

(FWIW - 33 years in IT)

Arguments against IT staff in open plan office

Bad dress sense, questionable attitude to general hygiene, not known for their interpersonal skills.  Those IT bods need to be hidden in caves 😉

Having IT out in the "open" is a total PITA. People walk up all the time with "can you just...?" requests, you get treated as a one stop shop for "I need a new [IT thing]..."

It's just constant disruption.

All staff need to consider GDPR regardless of role. HR and Finance will probably always have a stronger argument about dealing with more sensitive information.

yer my open teams requests get ignored, as do emails, I'm trying to train the company with rewards by ignoring their personal requests then instantly jumping on their requests when they use the official route

not being interrupted when i'm head deep in something by none critical stuff

the office i'm in has 2 desks close together, then my boss has half the space again with a glass partition, so the open plan is me, plus the student lad once every few weeks, music on loud, phone on DND

I hate to say this but just accept it.

From a security point of view very little will be seen or overheard.

Having IT out in the “open” is a total PITA. People walk up all the time with “can you just…?” requests, you get treated as a one stop shop for “I need a new [IT thing]…”

It’s just constant disruption.

Disruption from what? That's what they are there for.

Bad dress sense, questionable attitude to general hygiene, not known for their interpersonal skills. Those IT bods need to be hidden in caves

I'm not sure someone who sent most of their professional life wearing crocs and covered in bodily fluids is in any position to criticise 🙂

I’m trying to train the company with rewards by ignoring their personal requests then instantly jumping on their requests when they use the official route

Oh my word 🤣

If you’ve been there for 20 years and had your own office, and suddenly they want you to work open plan, I’d be telling them exactly where they can put those office plans…

Maybe that's their plan!

Hands up, I don’t want to be in the main population at all, with HR directly behind me, my boss has already said to use his office as it will be empty 90% of the time, but surely there is some legitimate arguments

I'd start with working though your "illegitimate" arguments - why are you (not IT guys in general) special?   If your issue(s) are sensible e.g. you spend large amounts of time coding and need to concentrate or being "too approachable" will make it really hard to do anything between "can you fix the printer", then air them.  If your issues are nonsense e.g. but HR would know I was on STW all day, or the bantz in the IT room are not fit for public consumption... then tough luck.

against an IT person potentially dealing with sensitive information, or GDPR related info, for example me taking staff mobile numbers to help them with MFA etc etc? help me formulate a good argument that would stand up

1. there's screen protectors around that stop anyone except the direct user being able to see your screen.  It would take minimum monitor positioning and desk rearranging to blow any "but I might have sensitive info on my screen" argument out.
2. your one GDPR example was particularly week - the only person who might oversee it from behind are HR who probably already have the mobile number!
3. if those issues affect you they affect your accounts people, etc too.  Does your business have a culture of secrecy (which management approve of) and do some roles involve enhanced security checks etc?  if not you aren't going to win an argument.
4. IT people who aren't "on the shop floor" fall into the "it works for me" response and naively believe their users are following all security policies etc not leaving machines unlocked, post its with passwords lying around etc.  I'd take some convincing that the net result would be less security from being out of sight.

I guess one advantage of having an office door is that the IT bods can put a sign on it saying "have you tried turning it off and back on again?" and thereby deal with at least 99% of the people who would just walk up to them in an open plan office.

Bad dress sense, questionable attitude to general hygiene, not known for their interpersonal skills. Those IT bods need to be hidden in caves 😉

This is it. It's not your delicate sensitivities being put under stress here, it's your colleagues'!

Don't all IT guys have boxes and boxes or random cables from 1995, a half built desktop undergoing bench testing and a series of dubious posters about how you don't have to be crazy to work here etc etc. where are they going to go?

Open plan offices are a nightmare for anyone who has to use their brain for working, rather than those which just jabber for their jobs.  Open plan offices are also a nightmare for introverts (also the majority of IT people).

I’m not sure someone who sent most of their professional life wearing crocs and covered in bodily fluids is in any position to criticise 🙂

Lolz

disruption,

so i do jobs that can take 5 minutes, I also have jobs that I know I need x amount of time for, 2 hours, 2 days, weeks..

I pencil in the several hour jobs and ignore everything when i start on them, these are jobs that mistakes can be bad, again, I'm not just a support desk, I'm doing everything.

but the key thing is , i do not want people casually walking over to me, I'm thinking i will be sat with headphones on all day.

re the secrecy comment, yes, with full visibility on everything that happens in the business there is definitely an element of secrecy and confidentiality, including on phone calls, apart from my direct boss, I answer to 3 directors. I can be on peoples screens and they can have confidential info on screen. I can be on the phone to my boss OR as it is now, in open conversation about a situation that we do not want overheard as it's an issue we are dealing with.

Also, i can be on Asda booking my shopping for collection

the junk area mentioned is another talking point, we can have boxes of new hardware  that we currently use one of our on site warehouses for, and we will essentially now have a bathroom sized room which is out of sight

I'm not sure there's much strong argument, was hoping more along the lines of it literally breaking GDPR or something

^^ traildog has it

I’m not sure there’s much strong argument, was hoping more along the lines of it literally breaking GDPR or something

As above, we have our ICT, HR and Finance in an open plan office. We also have the LADO (Local Area Designated Officer) who is responsible for dealing with allegations of malpractice/abuse by professionals etc...

Open plan offices are a nightmare for anyone who has to use their brain for working, rather than those which just jabber for their jobs. Open plan offices are also a nightmare for introverts (also the majority of IT people).

Some bright spark (I think it was a management consultant) at a company I used to work for had the bright idea of putting the 'creatives' in the same open plan office as the IT bods. Talk about trying to combine two completely incompatible ecosystems? Everyone absolutely hated it. That didn't last long. 2 weeks, IIRC

alan1977
Free Member
^^ traildog has it

You've been hidden away for 20 years, just because you like his opinion doesn't make it correct.

Everything you mention above just sounds like normal workspace stuff. If you need quiet time then get yourself a polite "Do No Disturb" sign to put out as required.

FWIW, I've been in this open plan office for 15 years. Plenty of people that do some impressive thinking around me. Yes, IT (and HR) share the same space as everyone else.

Disruption from what? That’s what they are there for.

No it is a small part, possibly, of their jobs. Otherwise its setting up servers, debugging and fixing network issues etc.
All stuff which needs concentration and when if you are interrupted its generally you can lose a lot of time getting back to where you were.

If you’ve been there for 20 years and had your own office, and suddenly they want you to work open plan, I’d be telling them exactly where they can put those office plans…

You wouldn't win that one unless you are prepared to leave over it, and consider that a win.

Working open plan is a pretty standard MO nowadays (and to other comments, nowhere near as bad as people make out) - you can tune out very easily, and this is an introvert speaking here.

GDPR - there's ways to deal with that too - privacy screens, etc. to avoid being overlooked, still need some private spaces where you can go for a confidential discussion, etc.

I had a meeting with our DPO earlier today. They're in the same open plan office as I am, and manage to overcome the very secret info they have access to.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill, tbh. I get you 'like' a private office all to yourself, you don't need one.

Get.Over.Yourself.

(FWIW – 33 years in IT)

This (20 years in IT). A big problem I've always had recruiting people for IT roles is finding decent techies who are able to actually communicate with other human beings. Locking away the computer geeks in rooms is a thing of the past...

disruption,

so i do jobs that can take 5 minutes, I also have jobs that I know I need x amount of time for, 2 hours, 2 days, weeks..

I pencil in the several hour jobs and ignore everything when i start on them, these are jobs that mistakes can be bad, again, I’m not just a support desk, I’m doing everything.

but the key thing is , i do not want people casually walking over to me, I’m thinking i will be sat with headphones on all day.

Yeah there's a problem.  It depends who calls the shots.  Book a room (or your boss' office) if you need to be uninterruptible.  Develop an approach where people know when "drop in time" is and how to get help at other times etc.  These problems are not unique to IT people - although they think they are special.  Finance, sales, technical, management people all have to juggle the "5 minute task" and the "5 hours without interruption task".   People manage.  Organisations develop ways to help them.  Discuss the challenges.

re the secrecy comment, yes, with full visibility on everything that happens in the business there is definitely an element of secrecy and confidentiality, including on phone calls, apart from my direct boss, I answer to 3 directors. I can be on peoples screens and they can have confidential info on screen. I can be on the phone to my boss OR as it is now, in open conversation about a situation that we do not want overheard as it’s an issue we are dealing with.

Then when you need to do those things make a point of "hold on I need to move to somewhere quieter" thats what everyone else does.  If that delay causes an issue to the higher-ups they'll soon find you a solution.

Also, i can be on Asda booking my shopping for collection

Yeah not so easy!

the junk area mentioned is another talking point, we can have boxes of new hardware  that we currently use one of our on site warehouses for, and we will essentially now have a bathroom sized room which is out of site

We used to use that argument until the lease came for renewal and someone got told that the annual storage of that shit actually cost more than its entire value!

I’m not sure there’s much strong argument, was hoping more along the lines of it literally breaking GDPR or something

I'd have kind of hoped that as "the IT guy" you'd have a better grasp of GDPR than thinking it was some sort of prescribed rules like that.

Oh and working remotely FTW

I could (and do) claim confidentiality for not wanting to be in a large, noisy open plan office. My team used to have an office in the quiet part of the building, far from the crowds, but they have moved us into the main area with a lot of development and it is noisy (they do mob programming) and there are no assigned desks for us. Given a lot of the work I do is confidential or working with personal information, holding meetings in that environment is challenging and I would actually prefer a lockable office for me and the others when we are in.

As it is I normal steal a spare desk with the infra people as I know i can trust them and can use their meeting pod if I need to do a videomeeting. I still prefer being at home though. The cat really does not care what I do during the day as long as I pay the cheese tax.

Open plan offices are a nightmare for anyone who has to use their brain for working, rather than those which just jabber for their jobs.

Not completely true.

It's when you don't have a free desk amongst like minded folk and end up in the zoo that it all goes wrong.

Doing nothing to dispel the notion that those working in IT are oddball loners...

You just don’t want HR being able to see how much of your day your spend on here.

disruption,

Every bodies job has a level of disruption to it.  Get over yourself.

Disruption from what? That’s what they are there for.

That's what most staff *think* they're there for.

Because they have zero understanding of any of the actual work done like cyber security, network management, set-up of new kit, decommissioning of old...

Could you get yourself a big cloak like old school photographers?

im actually seeing the justification for a n apple headset now 😛

The BOfH was supposed to be satire, not a role model.

Locking away the computer geeks in rooms is a thing of the past…

And that past was a looong time ago! I've been in open plan offices since 1998! (had to check CV to see when it was)
Last time we had our own offices, you were allowed to smoke indoors. I remember having meetings in my boss's office in the 90's, room full of smoke.

I thing the rest of us have to fear from anyone working in IT being moved to an open plan office is a drop off in quantity and length of threads and replies on STW.

No one needs a seperate office nowadays. Even the bosses. It's such an old school, I'm better than you attitude.

If you need a private meeting room, go to a meeting room or a specific quite room.

That’s what most staff *think* they’re there for.

Because they have zero understanding of any of the actual work done like cyber security, network management, set-up of new kit, decommissioning of old…

It's just work - IT support doesn't need any special dispensations. They have internal customers like many other parts of a business. If there aren't enough folk to do the work, make the case for more, just don't hide from your customers.

Be honest, you don't want anyone seeing you on STW at work. 😁

@cougar will be along in a minute to put us right.

There's plenty at least as qualified as me here.

I think this is very much an "it depends" question. I've worked in a larger team and I've been sole "IT Department." What's your bread and butter? Is WFH / Hybrid Working feasible?

For me personally, when they stuck me in an open plan office it was in a very real sense starting affect my mental health. The relentless noise, constant interruptions ("can you just...?"), some people thrive on that but as traildog alludes to my Aspie brain was going quietly spare. If you believe that you may be similar then (really you need a diagnosis but) this is something HR have to take into account.

I had tons of equipment. Tools, components and parts to get a dead server or laptop back up and running, multiple PCs on my desk. Get a faulty Proliant on your bench fired up in an open plan office and see how long it takes them to order you into a side office. 😁

And yes, of course there are security implications. I was dealing with sensitive data in my detail in SecOps and that was enough to argue against sitting in the middle of the NOC. But even as a regular Tech you're doing password resets and suchlike, the risk is small but it is non-zero.

Finally, have you asked? The new plans will have been drawn up giving the Important People a cosy office and scant regard for the needs of an IT department. If you don't communicate your requirements then you've no hope of getting it changed. The time to start coming up with reasons and excuses is if they kick it back.

just don’t hide from your customers

Likewise... have a professional way of managing the workload... don't be put in a position where the loud obnoxious and downright useless person in your office is wasting so much of your time that other people don't get a look in, even when their requests are more critical and more reasonable. All systems for managing requests and faults can fall apart fast when you're in an open plan office.

It’s just work – IT support doesn’t need any special dispensations. They have internal customers like many other parts of a business. If there aren’t enough folk to do the work, make the case for more, just don’t hide from your customers.

That's simply not true.

It's possible to be too accessible, people will just rock up to your desk rather than use a managed ticketing system because it's easier. There's no prioritisation, no division of duty ("Dave's doing password resets today, I'm assigned to something else, go talk with him"). I'm in the middle of a thorny problem which has taken out all of Sales, someone comes up complaining that the printer nearest their desk has run out of blue, that's just cost me half an hour in broken concentration time.

When I did get an office (or more accurately, when I took one) I had a policy where door open = come in, door closed = bugger off and leave me alone. There were times were I had to concentrate and I wasn't the only IT bod, just the nearest.

Ask if you can have a space made available for when you genuinely do have confidential stuff to do or if you need to be able to focus for a few hours.

We are a small business, I do the finance stuff and HR stuff alongside my normal daytime duties and my business partner does all the IT-related stuff. If I need to have privacy we have a meeting room and there are also soundproof booths (provided by our landlords) in some of the common spaces available in the building. We are ISO and Cyber Essentials accredited and they have never found an issue in us working in what is, for the most part, open plan. Unfortunately, there is no GDPR clause that's going to help you win this argument.

have a professional way of managing the workload…

This is important - just make sure it's transparent to the users.

Its literally day 1, first visit to the building, but want to be prepped with any valid points

I think i can cope, i will have headphones on or use my boss's office

yes, i sometimes have multiple laptops on my desk, sometimes physically open being repaired

odds and sods that i will need to learn to put in drawers but still

You'll just have to go to the disabled toilets for your Tommy Tank.

odds and sods that i will need to learn to put in drawers but still

So is your organisation ISO 27001 accredited?

If the new office is open plan only, then your options are limited, but having a hissy fit and demanding an office won't work

yes, i sometimes have multiple laptops on my desk, sometimes physically open being repaired

Make sure you get the space - just don't confuse the physical needs of the job (the abilty to 5s) with wanting to be closed off from the rest of the business. Good luck!

people will just rock up to your desk rather than use a managed ticketing system because it’s easier.

For the brief period of time that IT were accessible in a previous job I did, that was exactly what happened. All sodding day.

Didn't take long for IT to get their own office again.

not currently 27001 i don't think, we are working towards a an accreditation, what it is i'm not sure, i just get fed the "we must do this next" line

That’s simply not true.

Yeah it is, finance folks get interrupted, HR folks get interrupted everyone does, IT is no different, interruption is the work - alongside all the other stuff you need to do, the exact same as the rest of us drones. There's nothing inherently special about the role of IT that means it needs insulating from it, except just that you don't want to be, and that just describes the rest of us as well.

the exact same as the rest of us drones

There are plenty of roles where open plan working is less effective, and harder to manage. Hang on... in your field... you walk into any medical facility and there are multiple closed door rooms with work going on in them, and a gate keeper available on a public facing desk... no?

IT is no different, interruption is the work – alongside all the other stuff you need to do, the exact same as the rest of us drones.

Problems arise when the little IT drones are being assessed and there's no paper trail and saying things like "oh I deal with a constant stream of idiot staff who need to be told to turn it off and on again" doesn't really go down well in the "what have you done?" column.

Having a formal IT ticketing system provides a rock solid platform to say - here's all the work I did, here are recurring problems, here's where the main costs are, this area requires some staff training, here's a breakdown of time spent on the network, on staff issues etc....

But as soon as you make IT accessible, all that goes down the pan as people wander over with their "can you just...?" and "oh have you got 2 minutes...?" requests.

Sure, there are for some roles, and TBH, its mostly confidentiality, the Drs interrupt the work of the admin/nursing/reception teams endlessly. My door however is open, and folks just walk in [the bastards]

There are plenty of roles where open plan working is less effective, and harder to manage. Hang on… in your field… you walk into any medical facility and there are multiple closed door rooms with work going on in them, and a gate keeper available on a public facing desk… no?

Really? You're smarter than that.

My door however is open, and folks just walk in [the bastards]

You get how your door being open isn't the same as being in an open plan office, yes?

Having a formal IT ticketing system provides a rock solid platform to say – here’s all the work I did, here are recurring problems, here’s where the main costs are, this area requires some staff training, here’s a breakdown of time spent on the network, on staff issues etc….

But as soon as you make IT accessible, all that goes down the pan as people wander over with their “can you just…?” and “oh have you got 2 minutes…?” requests.

Expectation management. And you know, maybe having some time set aside during the day to provide that walk up concierge-type service? And yes, even that kind of work can be logged for insights.

Having a formal IT ticketing system provides a rock solid platform to say

Ticketing systems are solely for the benefit of IT teams becasue in my experience they can't actually prioritise or multi task.

But as soon as you make IT accessible, all that goes down the pan as people wander over with their “can you just…?” and “oh have you got 2 minutes…?” requests.

My HR teams are busy, they are constantly interrupted by folks saying "have you got 2 mins to help with this member of staff..." My finance team is busy doing their work, they're constantly interrupted by staff saying "have you got 2 mins to look at my expenses..?"

Like I said, IT is no different, you just think you are.

So many old tropes being wheeled out!

First and foremost, the only people who like open-plan offices are the last people you'd want to share one with, but it's part of working life these days. I hate it too.

Sorry, IT you don't have greater GDPR risk than HR, Finance, even Sales.

As for distracting them / "that's what they're there for" complete sympathy with that. In case no one has noticed, IT support has changed massively. Password resets, printer set-ups and the like are mostly automated now (or should be) and IT shouldn't be doing end-user training. We have to use an self-service ticketing system and call a answering service to make sure end users don't distract them. It sounds like you're trying to manage some low level mental health conditions, but no one can really be effective if they're being stopped working constantly by people asking them to concentrate on something else.

[Insert IT Crowd Roy GIF here]

I had the opposite of this. Was open plan, then got put in a data centre with no windows. Left very shortly after. Most infra people I know are crap at infra, even at some pretty sizeable co’s. If you’re half decent work somewhere else and grab a pay rise while you’re at it. If you don’t fancy moving just book out a meeting room for the day or build a shed on the roof, or in the basement, maybe even at the end of your garden. Negotiate to expense building materials.

Get a faulty Proliant on your bench fired up in an open plan office and see how long it takes them to order you into a side office.

I did that with a 2U ThunderX2 box. HR rushed out to site facilities to get a dB meter, the result was 100+dB when the fans span up!

My HR teams are busy, they are constantly interrupted by folks saying “have you got 2 mins to help with this member of staff…” My finance team is busy doing their work, they’re constantly interrupted by staff saying “have you got 2 mins to look at my expenses..?”

Like I said, IT is no different, you just think you are.

Actually, they aren't busy.  They are all just working really inefficiently.

Which is a kind of busy, I guess.  It's the kind of busy that management seems to like because if everyone looks busy then everyone must be really motivated.

In reality they hate their jobs, they hate their lives, and most of all they hate the managers who won't implement a system to deal with the constant interruptions because they think that's just the way a busy work environment is.

100% that!! ^^

Ticketing systems are solely for the benefit of IT teams becasue in my experience they can’t actually prioritise or multi task.

You havent actually worked in IT have you?

Like I said, IT is no different, you just think you are.

Is anyone saying IT are different vs that open office is shit for anyone who does a job which requires lengthy periods of concentrating on something. Interruptions come with a cost beyond just the "five minutes" if you are half way through thinking through a schema rewrite.

Lots of people who seem bitter about IT folk, for some reason.

If any job was moving from a long term dedicated office to open plan, I'd have some sympathy regardless of what it was.

Which is a kind of busy, I guess. It’s the kind of busy that management seems to like because if everyone looks busy then everyone must be really motivated.

Some management. Generally those who are professional managers and have absolutely no domain knowledge. So cant actually assess peoples work beyond they have their heads down.

finance folks get interrupted, HR folks get interrupted everyone does, IT is no different,

This may be true, but it is in no way to the same degree. Not even remotely. How often do you see someone hovering around a random bod's desk in Finance demanding their immediate attention? I'd be surprised if it was more than daily. The sole IT bod in a large office, it's every ten minutes.

You don't even get your lunch in peace, "I know you're on your lunch but..." but you don't care?

Ticketing systems are solely for the benefit of IT teams becasue in my experience they can’t actually prioritise or multi task.

If people aren't using ticketing systems, they're not prioritising, they're just doing the task of whoever shouts loudest/has the highest rank/last bought them cake/is the prettiest.