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Next question – Anyone buying shares in any of the above so we can start another investment thread
Avoid AZ in that case. When they announced they would be selling their vaccine at cost whilst the pandemic was still rife their share price dropped 4%. The market is brutal like that but fair play on them for their stance.
So what vaccine is everyone taking?
You won't get a choice. If I did, I'd take the sub-unit Sanofi/GSK spike protein next year. Might get it through work (We get the flu vaccine annually). I already have shares.
AZ shares fell on the news - an issue with dose and ad-hoc data dredging might find the vaccine isn't approved in the US.
Is there anything in any bible type handy pocket guide to life thing that actually transcends the level of “Ensure food is thoroughly cooked and piping hot”?
Anything?
At all?
about half way through it stops being "smite it furiously with fire and floods" and goes a bit "be excellent to one another", which was the point at which the authors discovered raw mushrooms were a bit more potent than cooked ones
Moderna
Pfizer
Astra Zeneca
All sound like funky new pizza types.. maybe that's how Gates/Soros will be serving their mind-altering vaccines... Pizza, with a chemtrail topping. All served in tinfoil cooked with 5G.
You couldn't make it up... ask Tommy Robinson. He speaks the truth, I saw it on Fox and Friends.
Next question – Anyone buying shares in any of the above so we can start another investment thread
I'm hoping my pension provider invested heavily as soon as those companies started working on vaccines.
Is there anything in any bible type handy pocket guide to life thing that actually transcends the level of “Ensure food is thoroughly cooked and piping hot”?
There's a bit somewhere that says don't be a dick. I may be paraphrasing there.
Don't fornicate your neighbour's wife, I think it said. Or was it don't fornicate with your neighbour's cow? Everyone had a cow in those days. And if you didn't, you probably wanted one, or at least to borrow one.
Amazing that it had to be spelled out like that, now I come to think of it.
Also, it did say mums and dads were ace, so don't kill them or steal their junk.
My mrs has a pal that's totally gone off the deep end with this conspiracy stuff. An otherwise previously normal girl who is now convinced by every conspiracy going. Every buzzword and phrase thrown about - plandemic, scamdemic, the great reset etc.
She bombards my mrs with non stop messages about this guff so she "knows what's going on". My mrs is getting quite upset with it all. She tried to say she didn't believe any of this nonsense and the pal just doubled down on everything.
Utterly insane and sadly a growing movement.
I'm going to have to Google "The Great Reset" now.
Is there anything in any bible type handy pocket guide to life thing that actually transcends the level of “Ensure food is thoroughly cooked and piping hot”?
Fashion tips maybe? "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." Leviticus 19:19 - So polycotton is out.
And a strict door policy. "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD". Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV
I have found my stress levels much reduced since I just blocked any of my ‘friends’ who posted such bollocks.
I just stopped looking at Fb. Still on here though...
So what vaccine is everyone taking?
Moderna
Pfizer
Astra Zeneca
Nobody is taking anything yet. It’s most likely that the AZ/Oxford one will be offered here, it’s cheaper and easier to make and store, and using the double dose system with a half dose first means there’s twice as much to go round, allowing production to keep ramping up for the second full dose.
And as I’ve been having vaccinations all through my life, without anything worse than an achy arm, I’m not about to stop now! If my surgery messaged me to say that, because of my age, I could be included in the first round I’d be all over it!
Don’t fornicate your neighbour’s wife, I think it said. Or was it don’t fornicate with your neighbour’s cow? Everyone had a cow in those days. And if you didn’t, you probably wanted one, or at least to borrow one.
Coveting their ass?
I've now come to terms with the fact that we are dealing with people that have been radicalised. Simple as that.
If someone can get so indoctrinated online to go out to the middle east and pick up an AK47 you can rest assured that John or Kate down the road can start to believe that Covid doesn't exist or that the vaccine has nano chips in it. Ditto Trump, Brexit, you name it.
It's radicalisation, pure and simple and I can see it only getting worse and in ways we haven't even get discovered.
My mrs has a pal that’s totally gone off the deep end with this conspiracy stuff.
...
She bombards my mrs with non stop messages about this guff so she “knows what’s going on”. My mrs is getting quite upset with it all
Just sack her off. Life's too short to be putting up with nobbers out of some misguided sense of loyalty.
Eh, the pal, not the missus.
Read first post in thread.
Immediately decided not to respond, due to complete agreement and a resultant rise in blood pressure.
Dammit.
Tis the season to be jolly done with their shit.
You can give the gift of life to your anti-vax rellys this giving season.
https://market.unicef.org.uk/inspired-gifts/life-saving-vaccine-pack/VAC-KIT19/
Gift it in their name.
The gift that keeps on giving.
She bombards my mrs with non stop messages about this guff so she “knows what’s going on”.
That's like the one I know, her strapline with every post is something like 'please read this and try to understand', as if the rest of us were just a bit silly or stupid for not seeing that it's all a hoax. It's a sad tale really as she has a long history of mental illness.
On the Covid vaccine, I'll put my hand up to being uninformed. The Pfizer vaccine, being completely new in its application, gives me cause for concern. When it comes to the vaccine being dished out I'd hope I'm considerably better informed by then.
Tl:Dr - I'm ignorant but aware of the fact.
Being concerned about a new type of vaccine, no evidence or testing of long term side affects etc,. are all valid concerns to me. Being concerned that a chip will be part of the vaccine or it will intentionally do something else that the government are behind is more in the anti vaxxer category
Anti vaxxers are presumably just against vaccines for a whole range of BS reasons whereas I would review each vaccine on it's merits and risks. Unfortunately I would probably be labelled as an anti vaxxer for asking some simple questions about the Covid vaccines as that is how the world works now.
I find it a useful tool to find out who didn’t pay attention at school.
I didn’t pay attention at school, but luckily I’m not a gullible idiot who is easily led. Therefore I think conspiracy theorists are ridiculous and best ignored. Unless it’s a documentary about them on Netflix, then I’ll be fascinated by the madness of it all.
Saved that vax gift link to share with anti-vax peeps. Thanks.
My own cod psychology about these folk is that rarely do these beliefs arise in a vacuum. There's often a "sound" reason why they belief that vaccines are dangerous. Both the women I know who're are anti-vaxxers, both have children who're mildly on the spectrum. One of whom (a young teenage daughter) is currently in hospital with an eating disorder. Both women themselves have a history of cancer scares, and both are very much into "natural" and "alternative" remedies.
I think they're looking for a reason that they're unwell themselves, they both have non-specific symptoms which may or may not be real and TBF, modern medicine and doctors haven't helped either of them, and why their children aren't "normal". MMR certainly handily fills that gap for them and gives them something to blame and an online community that will support them without judgment. They're not interested in science or reason, Their own innate belief systems aren't weird that way. despite the fact that Andrew Wakefield has been dragged through the courts and proven to be a liar and fraud. It neatly fits their own need for there to be an outside source of all their woes and troubles
Neither of these folk is happy, their homes lives are a bit messed up, their children often have to bear the weight of their mothers beliefs. One of them is my son's mate, on a weekend visit to me, his mother texted him endlessly to "check-up" - he was 16 at the time, the weight issues of the other stem directly from the mother's belief that food is full of "shit" and restricted the whole families diets to a minimum, and is now fighting with the CAMHS team who're trying to get the daughter well again...It's a bit of a mess fo'shure.
On our local Facebook group, someone said of a Covid vaccine: “I’m not having a stranger inject some random, unknown liquid into me” 😆
As always I’m late to the party and don’t know how to quote but I just want to say it was won on page one with the forgot about Dre comment!
You couldn’t make it up… ask Tommy Robinson. He speaks the truth, I saw it on Fox and Friends.
Was he Gunther the barista? Don't recognise him without the white hair
My favourite are those that say they're not letting bill gates implant a microchip in them to track their movements, while completely ignoring the phone in their hand that literally tracks their every movement and sells that data to the highest bidder
Hebrews 13:8 (King James version)
As always I’m late to the party and don’t know how to quote but I just want to say it was won on page one with the forgot about Dre comment!
He's certainly a more qualified doctor than all the antivaxxers
Sadly the internet is the bane of our life in this respect, anyone with an opinion and a connection can get pretty much the same airtime as someone with a lifetime studying or researching these topics on FB, Twitter, etc.
GMTV just said the same about whether covid bubbles are a good or bad idea. Having to give equal airtime to a professor of epidemiology and a journalist because of 'balance'
(yes, I know not all epidemiologists agree too)
As I've said on other threads though, simply shouting 'you're an idiot' at them ever louder doesn't convince them, it just entrenches positions. Even if they are. I don't know how to win the argument though; logic doesn't hold sway - does the lack of trust in science also equate to a lack of understanding of how argument and counterargument works - barely a day goes by in my (science) workplace without your work being constructively criticised and evaluated to deepen the understanding.
“I’m not having a stranger inject some random, unknown liquid into me”
Not those exact words, but I'm pretty sure that's what women have been trying to tell me for years.
But seriously, we all beleive stuff stuff which has a variable relationship to fact. By that I mean some things that we belive have supporting facts that are capable of testing and some things not, but if you are a bit sketchy on the difference between belief and a testable fact then anti-vaxing, a flat earth, christianity and general relativity are all in the same bag.
I got it bit bored with watching Richard Dawkins mock the religious and then profess a belief in human rights. So I think these people are just demonstrating an extreme case of a very common pattern of behaviour for yer average human.
It could be that belief is a survival skill in moderation, after all it is impossible to know everything - some would argue anything - and therefore some level of belief is necessary for us to function, but risky when taken to extremes. Over time the anti-vaxers lack of critical think should remove them from the gene pool, we may be stuck with the flat earthers.
Cougar
Just sack her off. Life’s too short to be putting up with nobbers out of some misguided sense of loyalty.
Perhaps but that's how we end up with polarised echo chambers.
BoardingBob
My favourite are those that say they’re not letting bill gates implant a microchip in them to track their movements, while completely ignoring the phone in their hand that literally tracks their every movement and sells that data to the highest bidder
A good example ... the thing is though most of the various conspiracy theories are total bollox so is a large amount of the "official" (government) information.
It's pretty easy to catch outright lies ... randomly?? David Frost wrote a whole published report pre-brexit on how we could never get a better deal... then spent 4+ years denying it.
It's like the "my phone is listening" (when it really doesn't need to) ... just the flip side.
The more the phone companies deny it the more it's "true".... even when they search for stuff like "does my phone/alexa listen to my conversations" it doesn't occur to them why their YT is full of conspiracies, even though they exp-licitly searched for them.
For those a bit reluctant to take the vaccine, would you be more willing to take the AZ version, ie the one (to my limited understanding) using existing vaccine technology, rather than the other versions which are more likely to bring on the zombie apocalypse
I'm a bit conflicted, I'll take what I'm given, however whilst the Pfizer one is more effective, the az one is certainly more proven.
For those a bit reluctant to take the vaccine, would you be more willing to take the AZ version, ie the one (to my limited understanding) using existing vaccine technology, rather than the other versions which are more likely to bring on the zombie apocalypse
Absolutely.
Don't argue with anti-vaxxers.
Just tell them to ask their great granny how many of her friends died young, and why.
chap in my office told me yesterday, that one of the ingredients in this new vaccine is…..
a small amount of lung sample, from a 14 week foetus.
Which firstly is a horrible thought, but secondly, who knew these pharmaceutical company’s stocked such thing. Does a foetus even have lungs at 14 weeks?! I have no clue!
Needless to say I ripped the urine for a while, thankfully he realised what the internet told him might not be accurate.
Thing is with this one, like many such arguments, is that there is a warped grain of truth in it. Lots of vaccines are developed using foetal DNA - the fact that they've been using the same DNA since the 60s (from two elective abortions) kind of waters down the argument against it though.
Ugh I’ve just been arguing with a few on fb. An old colleague of mine (we met working for the NHS!) posted some more guff and I bit, of course all her mates chipped in too, it’s amazing how many know medical professionals who are against the vax!
Thing is she has serious medical problems that affect her immune system and is bame, so in a really high risk group. I only argued with her as I care about her. But apparently I’m the sheep for believing science.
I need more than a few deep breaths
Well I’ve had my first shot of vaccine last week. After reading this thread I’m worried Bill Gates is listening to my sparkling dinner conversation.
In all serious, if your offered it, take it. Please. I work in a sector where I thought it would be straightforward to get all my guys to sign up as soon as offered. But there is a low level resistance born of fear. Some justified (unknowns) some fomented by facebook arses.
I just thank them, means I'm likely to get access sooner. No vaccine for stupidity I'm afraid.
No vaccine for stupidity I’m afraid.
Wouldn't matter if there was they'd be too stupid to take it.
An old colleague of mine (we met working for the NHS!) posted some more guff and I bit, of course all her mates chipped in too, it’s amazing how many know medical professionals who are against the vax!
What specifically is their issue with the vaccine?
My mate Snakebite (of this parish) wrote a Facebook post "I'M 100% IN FAVOUR OF MANDATORY VACATIONS"
He got rather a lot of entertaining replies. Most along the lines of "I'm not having nobody stick that muck in me" and "What do you mean, read it again".
Confess I’ve been on pro-brexit fb sites pretending to be one of them to see how much shit they’ll swallow, can be funny and depressing in equal measure to see how many likes can be gained by spouting swivel eyed loon drivel!!!
Just tell them that having the jab is electronically linked to their passport and if they don't have it they won't be able to go to benidorm next year.
That confuses them for a while.
A couple of folks I know have got well into the "fake vaccinations" thing. This, you might have seen, is where there's been a public vaccine of staff or a public figure, where the poster maintains that the injection is fake. The syringe is the wrong syringe for the vaccine, or they didn't inject enough of it, or the vaccine is actually purple and that's clearly beige...
For example,
It's infuriating because there are a couple of photo shoots where they definitely didn't give the vaccine- it's all just stage managed to create a photo shoot rather than a real vaccination, so yes those are "fake" but just not what people are claiming. Khan and others are just selectively taking a misleading still- in that one, the picture is from before the injection so yes the cap is still on...
But it proves yet again how much you can make from so little and how desperately eager people are to find things that prove how clever they are.
Boss "are you getting the vaccine"
Me "Yeah why"
Boss "are you not worried about how quick its been done"
Me "no & what do you mean I think its quick amazing actually"
Boss "what if it causes cancer "
Me "I think its the 40 a day cigarettes you smoke you need to be more concerned about"
Made a flowchart I posted on reddit/medicine earlier about how to talk to anti vaxxers (from a doctor's POV) ;p
it’s amazing how many know medical professionals who are against the vax!
There's been NHS folk on here expressing doubts about the speed it's been pushed through and long term effects.
The comedian Jim jefferies does a sketch about the whole of the world is on a train, the front carrige contains all the scientists engineers Doctors etc, the next few carriges has all the sensible folks, all the many following carriges have the antivax/mask conspiracy theory Qanon gun toting god bothering folks.
Jim thinks we should pull the pin on all those many following carriges.
My only response to any of the anti brigade is "crack on its your life"
So what vaccine is everyone taking?
Whatever vaccine is being distributed to local health authorities; in the U.K., I believe it’s the Phizer/BioNTech vaccine, because it’s the first one ready and authorised for emergency use.
When my local surgery contacts me to say that it’s my turn, I’ll be there fast enough to blue-shift, regardless of which one it is, I’m old enough to be in one of the more vulnerable groups, especially with this new variant.
On the Covid vaccine, I’ll put my hand up to being uninformed. The Pfizer vaccine, being completely new in its application, gives me cause for concern.
But it’s not completely new. The couple behind BioNTech, or at least the woman started working on the mRNA technology back in the 70’s, but kept coming up against technical issues, and because she wouldn’t give up the research her position was demoted and funding removed, but she kept at it, then got backing and found a way around the issues. They have done successful work on Ebola, and the MERS and SARS viruses, both COVID, what is going around now is SARS-COVID-2, so as they had the technology already sorted out, it was only necessary to get the genome for the spike protein to get started on a vaccine for this new virus, and we’re world leaders in genome sequencing, which is how we found the new strain before anyone else.
This is a very rough outline, I’ve read a number of more detailed articles, and I’m not a scientist, so not clear on some aspects, but don’t have them to hand.
Found one of them:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mrna-coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-biontech
Here’s another:
https://www.salon.com/2020/12/05/mrna-history-vaccines-coronavirus-moderna-immunology-lipid-nanoparticles/
Just found this article as well, it seems to offer an easier way for people to protect themselves in the future...
https://www.firstpost.com/health/us-scientists-develop-nasal-spray-to-prevent-covid-19-effective-for-six-months-9073321.html
I live in Qatar and they've just announced that 70% of the population will be vaccinated by April and the rest shortly after.
Cue anti-vaxxer nonsense. Even amongst colleagues (UK qualified teachers) there's a big proportion, I'd say 25%+, who are against it.
I was involved in a conversation with two of them, both friends, at work and they were shocked to learn that:
1) They wouldn't be welcome at school without a vaccination after a certain date and would be replaced. The same goes for all their other vaccinations and always has done.
2) They wouldn't be welcome in my house and others in the conversation.
3) Companies and people are allowed here to discriminate against those not vaccinated.
4) You have to show an app on your phone with a live clock and green QR code to get in ANYWHERE. Any shop, compound, office anywhere. This would be a different colour for those vaccinated vs not, ergo they couldn't lead a normal life.
I didn't have to argue science. The above motivated them to research themselves!
Muppets. It's not our job to educate them but they also don't get to be ignorant and have the same privelges as the sensible part of the population.
There’s been NHS folk on here expressing doubts about the speed it’s been pushed through and long term effects.
Long term I can see the concern but the data available covers thousands of patient years, something would have shown.
The speed thing is down to it being a variant on work all ready carried out and the fact that there was no need to scrape around for funding. If the researcher needed money, the wallets were opened and funds were provided. Funding is usually the thing that delays new drugs getting to market.
The thing about being Anti Vax is it gives a nonentity the chance to be someone special, the Patient Zero.
Imagine how proud the person who first brought CoVid into the UK feels.
At 65,000+ deaths he/she has eclipsed serial killers like Fred West's meagre total, and what's more has got away with it. They have made ISIS look like amateurs.
Dumb sick bastards.
In general I am cautious about vaccines and think that in some ways we may overvaccinate. However on any sane analysis the risk of this vaccine while possibly higher remains very low indeed and the risks to both me as an individual and to society at large from the virus so high that I will take it immediately when offered.
I would make it a condition of accessing services that you were vaccinated
Some friends,in their 50's,have categorically stated they won't be having the vaccine.
They believe the vaccine,and lockdown rules,are just unnecessary state control.
Abiding to mixing , wearing a mask and travel restrictions are being ignored by them and they have said they are not concerned if they contract the virus. It is impossible to reason with them.
Perhaps the antivaxxers shouldn’t take it, let Darwinian natural selection take its course!
The couple behind BioNTech
Completely OT, but these guys clearly didn’t read much sci-fi or play video games. That’s a name pulled straight from the big book of evil and sinister company names. Fuel for the anti vaccine weirdos 😀
Just like calling a voting systems company Dominion
Don’t ever argue with the world’s biggest snowflakes because even though irony is their kryptonite, their self-imploding has a blast-radius. You will be a casualty in some way.
My only response to any of the anti brigade is “crack on its your life”
Except, it isn't.
Vaccinations don't just protect the people getting the jab, it protects those who cannot have it what whatever reason. In refusing it they're not only putting their own idiot self at risk but also those who are variously immunocompromised. They could in a very real sense kill someone else.
Some friends,in their 50’s,have categorically stated they won’t be having the vaccine.
They believe the vaccine,and lockdown rules,are just unnecessary state control.
I'd be finding better friends if I were you. Life's too short to spend it in the company of roasters.
Please they have moved on from Gnome sequencing, times too short for that....
Gnome sequencing
❓❓
Have afew on Faceache (mostly from school that paid no attention back then but are now self professed virologists it seems) I tend to 'unfollow' them so the kibble they post doesnt clutter up my timeline. Just get called one of the 'sheeple' if you mention pesky things like science or facts, so just leave 'em to it now.
"Vaccinations don’t just protect the people getting the jab, it protects those who cannot have it what whatever reason. In refusing it they’re not only putting their own idiot self at risk but also those who are variously immunocompromised."
You have proof of this?
According to Matt Hancock on R4 last week, while the vaacine is effective at protecting the personvaccinated it is still unknown whether they may still be carriers, able to pass the virus on to those at risk...
Or how long the vaccine is effective...
As Mark Twain once said
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
carbonfiend
Free MemberBoss “what if it causes cancer ”
Mother****er, bacon causes cancer, but by boxing day my body will be 11% pig.
You have proof of this?
According to Matt Hancock on R4 last week, while the vaacine is effective at protecting the personvaccinated it is still unknown whether they may still be carriers, able to pass the virus on to those at risk…
Exactly. People who support the vaccine make up stuff about it just as people make up stuff who oppose the vaccine.
The facts are;
- We don't know whether a vaccinated person can transmit
- We don't know the long term affects (what if a problem is caused by it in 3 years time?)
- We don't know how long it works for so if not getting revaccinated in time is that a risk
Overall, with the impact the virus is having I would say that outweighs the above and as long as majority of people have it is will be enough to clear all the space in hospitals for this that don't want to have it. It will also be fair enough if those people end up in hospital.
Anti-vaxxers. I don't know why it's worth getting angry about them. They'll be subject to less civil liberties than those that have had the needle anyway. For instance they'll likely be banned from travel (the lorry drivers currently can't cross the channel until they've been tested) and they'll likely be unable to get a job too. I suppose they could take up dog breeding or selling roasted chestnuts on Westminster Bridge but placate yourself with the likelihood that they'll be forever ostracized for their choice. Leave Facebook that would be my advice.
Exactly. People who support the vaccine make up stuff about it just as people make up stuff who oppose the vaccine.
I think the post you're taking exception with (Cougar's) referred to vaccines - not just the current Covid one. I think it's well established that vaccines have protected those not vaccinated many cases - smallpox being the obvious example with polio, measles and, I'm sure, many more to look at.
Getting vaccinated will have an indirect effect on others though, as it means there will be fewer people admitted to hospital with Covid so that frees up a bed for mr or mrs Antivaxxer when they need it. (By which time they will probably be greatful for anythng they can be given to help them breathe normally again.) Sure it won't be all the anti vaxers, but as the vaccinated population grows the proportion of anti-vaxxers presenting with severe covid will most likely grow.
Why do people get so het up about antivaxxers? They can only pass on these things if they get them, and if vaccines work the herd immunity will mean they won’t get them, and even if they did almost nobody would catch it off them anyway.
And if we are to argue that they’re still selfish because there’s an incredibly small chance they could pass it on to someone who can’t be vaccinated, do we not then have to take drastic action not to be just as selfish and, say, wear masks at all times even after COVID in case we catch and pass on measles despite being vaccinated, as does happen, or stop driving our cars even well within the speed limit because a child could still jump out in front of us?
It’s very easy to be hypocritical here.
Can it not be like politics where it is OK for someone to have the opposite opinion to ours?
and, say, wear masks at all times even after COVID in case we catch and pass on measles despite being vaccinated, as does happen, or stop driving our cars even well within the speed limit because a child could still jump out in front of us?
Do you really require an answer to this question?
Do you really require an answer to this question?
No, it’s rhetorical.
There are plenty of things we all do that are far more of a danger to others than not getting vaccinated, so why are we so on their case?
Making up ridiculously over the top examples of things we could do to make society very slightly safer while engendering huge amounts of hassle to try and prove a point is... well... fallacious nonsense.
There is an obvious balancing of 'ability to conduct everyday life without excess amounts of hassle' vs 'level of public safety'. You can argue about exactly where on that spectrum we should place ourselves but having a vaccine is such a minor hassle with potentially huge benefits for society - yes you are free not to take it but we are also free to think that's selfish.
There are plenty of things we all do that are far more of a danger to others than not getting vaccinated
Like what? Driving? I'm all for dramatically reducing driving, but as it stands is a major part of how our society functions - so the comparison is totally bogus.
The answer to most of these questions... including family anti whatever brexit voting redwall voters trump voters is as i have stated elsewhere about 50% of the people simply dont have the mental ability or education to understand the basic facts of how the world actually turns added to an inability to recognise how they are manipulated. The term thick is derogatory but not inaccurate.
These people have been enabled to come into the light by Trump Farage Boris Vote Leave and many more bit players. They have in my opinion become self perpetuating like a big flock of sheep running blindly at fences and off cliffs.
The rest of us can not convince them of anything so we have to simply let them charge about until they die out (metaphorically)
Boris has monumental challenges (not including Covid) and this presents the opportunity going forward. I think Boris will have just gained fresh support from the Tory heartlands if not the ERG, this means he is less likely to resign and this leaves Sunak Rabb Gove in the position of having to eat the shit sandwich that is the UK economy- not sure they or any other cabinet members want that - they actually needed a clean break from Boris to reestablish the Tory Party, Boris thinks he has won the war but as Churchill found out post war politics was not good for him.
WTO Hard Brexit would have been a bigger disaster for the economy but a far better play for the Tories with Boris kicked into the weeds. Sunaks one man band PR campaign looks lost.
The ERG Vote Leave ideology of destroy and rebuild has gone, possibly for good, there is little doubt Boris has folded and kept his feet under the EU table regardless of how they paint it, but this deal will have really pissed off a lot of hardline Tories and rabid Brexiteers.
The true hard right Tories have not established themselves.. Boris has clipped their wings.
chrispo
Free MemberWhy do people get so het up about antivaxxers?
They kill people.
I've not got much of a problem with an antivaxxer, singular. But plural, they are a spreading disease. And like every disease, nobody just spontaneously catches antivax, you get it from another person who's already caught it, and then you give it to someone else.
Why do people get so het up about antivaxxers?.
Because children miss out on vaccines because their parents are anti-vaxxers.
Because some people have genuine medical reasons for not getting a vaccine, so they are put at risk when diseases like measles reappear.
As we have seen with smallpox and almost with polio, vaccination makes it possible to eliminate some diseases altogether. Anti-vaxxers sabotage this.
They kill people.
Anti-vaxxers sabotage this.
they are put at risk when diseases like measles reappear.
But not to any massive extent.
We all make choices that we believe to be justified but could cause ourselves or others harm.
I’m just interested in why such vitriol is reserved specifically for these people.
They believe they’re doing the right thing, and they’re definitely not all thick.
Do you hate smokers and speeding drivers with the same passion? Or Tory voters? Etc etc.
they arent "anti-vax", they are "pro disease" as they are actively promoting the spread of whichever organism they are happy to see kill people. it is that simple, education, social media, an interative vote on loose women etc.... are just distractions. at the end of the day as an antivaxer your are deliberately supporting another organism against the survival of members of your own species (usually the more vulnerable ones)...this makes you a bit of a ****