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Why would “they” create covid which does a pretty good job of reducing the population and then create a vaccine that cures it…to reduce the population?
That was explained. "They" have put all sort of things in the vaccine to kill off more people that covid ever would, covid was just the reason that would get the majority of people to have the vaccine. A virus can only do so much but injecting a cocktail of stuff can do much worse, makes you think eh?
Good point. Just put all these depopulation liquids into everyday foodstuffs. Would be dead easy for 'them' to own all the food and drink companies and just do it that way.
Or release it as an aerosol in places like sports stadiums, airports, concert venues, schools etc.
Good point. Just put all these depopulation liquids into everyday foodstuffs. Would be dead easy for ‘them’ to own all the food and drink companies and just do it that way.
They'd have to be subtle about it though, so that people didn't notice. Ideally it would be things that a) people really liked consuming and b) killed them slowly. But surely nobody would be evil enough to pump our food full of sugar and fat and heavily market alcohol? Surely.
The streams are crossing!!
Bliss has also popped up in the politics thread espousing National Front nonsense, so not lacking versatility.
Is anybody else playing the conspiracy bingo game?
I agree with bliss.
About the overpopulation bit that is.
The rest is the biggest load of Poppycrap* I’ve heard in a long time.
*I just invented that word.
but if they are I’d say it could/should be your civic duty to remove the conspiracy theory style posts
Agree. While a combination of funny and sad it is best not to 'promote' it on the forum.
This bloke can’t be for real..
@bliss - OK, so you believe the covid vaccines are all doing horrendous damage and will lead to a huge depopulation event. What is your time limit for this, ie if in 5 years time there are still billions of vaccinated people alive, will you admit your theory is wrong?
Bliss has also popped up in the politics thread espousing National Front nonsense, so not lacking versatility.
He's going for broke. Gotta get maximum value from each account before the hammer comes down.
If you want him/her banned, report his/her posts.
Or release it as an aerosol in places like sports stadiums, airports, concert venues, schools etc.
I know what they should do. They should spray it from aircraft flying at high altitude. They could claim it is just normal contrails.
Oh, wait....
Because viruses die themselves out.. it’s too much hassle to make one every few years, it’s costly and time consuming. Getting the liquid directly into people’s body would be the most effective way for results, ‘they’ need a reason for people to willingly take the vaccine, so first they create a problem.
The virus has been doing just fine all by itself - . Creating, manufacturing, distributing and implimenting a vaccine programme is proving pretty difficult - The uk has proven to be pretty capable at doing it (despite ****ing everything else up) and we've sort of taking it for granted that things are rolling out in similar fashion all round the works. If you're wondering why Russia has been keeping pretty quiet about.... well everything recently - the fact is they;ve making a monumental arse of the whole thing and failing to getting their promised vaccines out, both to their own population and to the various states around the world that they've promised them to.
Now - I don't believe in a shadowy 'they', but if I did believe in 'them' and their dastardly plan I'd want to believe they were a bit more proficient .... wouldn't they get the 'make the vaccine and get ready to use it' bit sorted first?
Good point. Just put all these depopulation liquids into everyday foodstuffs.
Maybe we could install taps in everyones homes, linked via a network of secret underground pipes to huge reservoirs, full of liquid.
Put one tap near the kettle and another one by the toothbrush just to be sure
The right amount of dihydrogen monoxide delivered via this network would be utterly lethal.
Okay its now gone full Strangelove.
Hey, don’t rip into Bliss – he/she does make the odd salient point about respecting others views and engaging with people we don’t agree with.
The content is nonsense but it is interesting to hear that perspective – bonkers as it is, and we all know it is.
Thing is though when somebody is demonstrably talking cr@p & refusing to provide any sort of cogent argument in favour of their position then you can’t blame anyone for giving them a hard time.
I think we all agree engaging with the anti vaxxers doesn't work, mainly because they don't want to engage, whether that's because they really are ironically dim, totally gullible or most likely in the edgy, stick it to the man / internet troll camp, it doesnt really matter, their motivations arent satisifed by a sensible conversation.
So as they are still causing society massive issues I think a bit of piling on and calling them out as idiots is probably in order, sure it won't win them around to your argument but nothing you can say will, it's one big ego trip for most of them, puncturing the ego is about the only way to get them pipe down.
This bloke can’t be for real..
Of course not. Whoever it is was on for a not too dissimilar time yesterday before posting that the vaccines are death sentences. And today….
Bliss has also popped up in the politics thread espousing National Front nonsense, so not lacking versatility.
Either that or now heading outside with a fully auto assault rifle
Because of The lies of the current lib/lab/con party’s. It’s insane, also I don’t agree with immigration on this scale, it’s affecting mine and millions of white British peoples life all over the country. Not to mention the scandle that is foreign aid. I believe society is gone so far backwards only radical change would help.
Doesn't believe in science, but does believe that "they" have created a global pandemic virus so they "they" could also create demand for a fake vaccine that will alter our genetics and cause all sorts of specific time delayed ailments. Presumably without the use of science.
And all it requires is the silence of pretty much the whole worldwide medical community and the silence of the vast majority of the worldwide vaccine development and manufacturing industry.
And all of the shadowy "they" clearly.
But somehow, it's been leaked. To just a few select internet users with no scientific or geopolitical knowledge, who must save the world...
Sure
I'd say they are batshit crazy, but they aren't.
They're just bored, annoying, a bit naughty and not worth wasting time on.
Whether bliss is a troll or not there are clearly nutjobs out there that believe that kind of thing.
Which is depressing, scary, and amusing, all at the same time.
[essay incoming]
Way back at the beginning of this pandemic our ninny of a PM alluded to Dunkirk spirit and attempted to don a mantle of Churchillianism. He picked the wrong WW2 analogy.
He could instead have picked the Blitz: [cigar and brandy mode] "If you are an anti-vaxxer, you are against the war effort. You ignore the blackout and have your curtains wide open with the lights on. You invite death on your neighbours."/[c&b]
Let's forget about Boris and go back to the basics.
Vaccinated means: when exposed to SARS-COV-2 individuals might get infected but their primed immune system will recognise the pathogen and mount a response before too much virus takes hold.
Unvaccinated means:
1. The amount of reproduced and incubated virus in your body is higher, should you be infected
2. The rate of onward infection is higher
3. The chance of incubating a further mutation of the virus is higher
4. Your own course of illness has a higher chance of landing you in hospital, in the ICU or in the ground (not to mention risk of long-covid)
Statistical likelihood of a better individual outcome from being unvaccinated vs vaccinated varies based on a multitude of factors. This is true. The statistical view develops over time - the start of this is what is done throughout clinical trialling a new vaccine. The statistics can never predict the outcome for an individual. Adverse reactions do occur. The licensing of a therapeutic or vaccine only takes place after the statistical picture has been reasonably developed through a sequence of trials. That's the hard science. It is done diligently by professional doctors and reviewed by other specialist doctors in government agencies. I've met them. They're good people in command of their specialism. But vaccine rollout is, indeed, the most pressured regulatory process. The risk of a new substance being rolled out to the population as a whole and causing widespread serious adverse reactions is horrifying for those same doctors.
The rollout plan for Covid vaccines is actually incredibly simple. Because the disease carries a significant risk of death that increases with age, vaccinating the oldies first (based on clinical trials data) has hardly any down side. Vaccinating successively decreasing age groups gives you a chance to develop the picture of what type of adverse reactions occur and the likelihood of occurrence. Any statistically significant reaction can be researched and projected to indicate any population where the risk of receiving the vaccine exceeds the risks of not receiving the vaccine. The rollout is epidemiological in nature. It is based on statistics. Slicing and dicing the data may reveal hidden trends. This is the work done behind the scenes in a vaccine rollout, leading to the guidance of who should get the vaccine.
The epidemiological/statistical approach is scientific; it assures better outcomes for society but it does not guarantee individual outcomes. Society could do better in extending guarantees and assurances to individuals unlucky enough to suffer rare adverse reactions. The cost should be on our broader society to underwrite those who, through no fault of their own, suffer and, maybe, die; collateral damage from protecting society from a raging pandemic.
An individual's choice to not get vaccinated is not a simplistic matter of personal freedom; exercising that particular freedom introduces risks that the freedom of others will be disproportionately curtailed. But, of course, to even mention that freedom isn't free brings out the accusation of authoritarianism.
It is a stick and carrot conundrum but the best we hear is: "Trust us: we're the Government". No stick (because we won't get reelected). No carrot (because we'd have to fund that from a functioning economy). Better to bluster through in a cozy haze of stage-managed sound bites than actually have to do any "governing" per se. Laissez f***ed.
Transparency in society and trust in those in power is needed for vaccination to be a straightforward choice. We have a backdrop of an entirely justified low level of trust in a flawed government in a polarised society. We have media outlets that value sensationalism over fact. We have "news" that is little more than voyeurism. We have on-line echo chambers where algorithms reinforce our prejudices.
I can call the PM a ninny and I can call out all the political grandstanding and opportunism that has transpired over the last 18 months but that's just noise and has no bearing.
Despite the Government, I can see that every critical step I'd expect to see followed in a vaccination programme has taken place. Vaccines = gid, because science. Anti-vaxxers = misinformation victims. Society = could try harder.
I see that our friend is on another thread having claimed to be a "fully paid up member of the national front". I can only conclude that they're trolling having made comments about tolerating opinion whilst supporting an organisation that is anything but tolerant.
So I guess that I must invite a forum ban by inviting Bliss to **** off.
Thank christ the UK doesn't have people like Gov Ron DeSantis banning mask mandates while covid cases in his state are breaking records every day. Then there's loons like Marjorie Taylor Greene proud of Alabama for being the least vaccinated state, at least twitter banned her, if only for a week, its mental how these people have positions of power.
In England we have Jeremy Corbyns nutcase anti vax brother that hopefully nobody takes seriously so I think we'll get over covid a damn sight quicker than the good old US of A.
I'll engage
Thank you, finally a direct question.. so yeah I believe in a few things and they will sound bizarre to the average citizen but as you asked kindly I will explain.
What is different about you that makes you not "average", your views are based on some knowledge that you think others don't have. How have you worked this all out?
Firstly it starts with the over population problem we have on the planet, it’s been known for hundreds of years that we are over populated and it just can not continue this way.
I believe there are attempts to depopulate the planet and one of the biggest ways is with the vaccine, first I believe they created a little problem I.E covid. It comes down to the problem, reaction, solution theory. This is the only way you can get citizens to willingly do something in their favor.
Hundreds of years ago nobody knew what the world's population was. So who "knew" the world was over populated then? When did they come to this realization? Why didn't they act then to stabilise numbers? Who created covid19, why did they choose that virus?
Ok so they created covid so society would panic, and ultimately get the vaccine that would eventually depopulate.
But every vaccine to date has in effect increased global population. Why is this one the first to cause depopulation? Why does this then extrapolate to the more developed countries being depopulated, the ones which are actually shrinking anyway due to low birth rates associated with lifestyle and can afford to vaccinate the majority?
I believe the vaccines have been created to do a verity of different things. One being to alter people’s DNA , to cause immune system disorders, to cause fertility issues in women (no more birth rates) mental illness, heart problems and ultimately a shut down of bodily organs.
But there is no evidence, even small effects are rigourously tracked and the vaccine recommended changed. Your theory implies that the vaccine will ultimately directly kill those who take it yet apart from the small number of reactions nothing has been detected. With the numbers jabbed people would be dying now in the way you describe.
Yes it’s a serious opinion I hold, to cause mass death to control population issues.
Cui bono?
I also believe cancer is man made due to the very same reason, we can look back at history and find many situations of failed attempts at population control, I.E black death, fire of London, WW1 , WW2 etc etc.
The fire of London helped reduce the impact of a plague outbreak IIRC
Again this is western centric, does the rest of the word not merit their attention?
So you or someone else will ask why they would want to depopulate the earth? It’s simple. For control.. it’s easier to control fewer people without resistance. A teacher would find it easier to control a class of 5 pupils than a class of 25, the same theory applies here.
But why the western emphasis, are "they" from the east? It doesn't add up if you look at it globally. Your prism is too small, you have to expand your narrative to respond which is in essence just making it up
I believe a new world order is happening and has been planned for years. They want a cashless society, microchipped humans and a worldwide one world government. This will be the mark of the beast and the start of the end of civilization.
Are you Christian? If you aren't why do you even refer to the mark of the beast. If you are is the transcript of some visions a random had actually true, do you believe it was an act of God it was included? How can the God of love approve/allow the early death of billions?
Society has been cashless before, money is a latecomer to the human story
That’s the short of it. Anymore questions?
Look if you were one of the builders of Stonehenge wondering what the new fangled farmers who buried their dead with pottery were up to then I might have some sympathies. But you are not.
You may use these things to try and make sense of your world but you are impacting others. How does your mother feel after your rant at her, she probably sits there and wonders where she went wrong, why is her child so lost in their delusions?
Go for a bike ride, chill out and stop arguing with randoms on the internet, observe nature and it's wonder. Say sorry to your mum. Please go and get vaccinated.
It’s amazing how many really clever people are unable to convince “morons” to agree with them
...because they are morons?
'I am Legend' screenplay writer clarifies he made it up... 🤣
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58164833
When the chumbucket leaves
Have you never heard of cognitive biases or how brains work then? Much easier to appeal to system 1 thinking than system 2 thinking, sadly. See populists everywhere.
I wasn't aware of cognitive dissonance until earlier today but perhaps we should just type 'cognitive dissonance' as a response when the hard of thinking pop up with their theories as I'm sure they will be curious enough to go off and research it.
"Festinger argued that some people would inevitably resolve dissonance by blindly believing whatever they wanted to believe.' - Sounds about right
Bliss has to be trololololing.
Wow.
What the hell did I just read?
I told myself I would join in the topic and debate until I get personally attacked or get called a troll.
...
So I leave this here.. have a good week all.
Yet you're still here so, another anti-vaxxer lie then.
I don’t think it’s the case that they are devoid of empathy, rather their anger over-rides the empathy. This come down to differences of opinions.
You're dismissing empathy in favour of anger? Really?
I currently have a work colleague in intensive care. Do you still think this argument is about "opinion"? It's my opinion that my mate shouldn't be on life support. What's yours?
I never once spoke about facts.
That much is true.
Why not give it a try?
I never once was asked why I hold my opinions or any part opinion.
That's another lie. You've been asked at least three times on this thread if not more.
Don’t STW ban accounts that are clearly just trolls?
From his lengthy silence, I'm guessing that's what happened.
I believe that Bliss is a troll - I said so a few pages back. I offered to provide him with information re: the vaccine. At that point his only stated concern was that "nobody knows what the vaccine ingredients are". Since then, it's been revealed that either he's a strong contender for the stupidest person in Britain.... or a troll.
I do believe that there ARE people as stupid as Bliss appears to be - but I think he's actually a troll.
Either way it's irrelevant, I have absolutely no interest in engaging further - there is zero chance of influencing / helping him understand, whether monumentally stupid or troll. I do take some solace that if he's a dumb as he appears - at least his mum knows this to be the case, and politely ignores him.
Anyway. I think it was on the covid thread that I said that I think the US model (re covid deniers/antivaxxers) is going to be what happens elsewhere.
Specifically, we are going to give you every opportunity to have the vaccine, we are going to remove any barrier to getting vaccinated that is reasonably possible. But however much you try there is always going to be a % of loonies so entrenched in their position, that nothing is going to budge them (short of the actual ventilator tube going down their throats - as we are seeing). Bliss either one of these people.... or is pretending to be, and so is aiding the debate in that way I suppose.
So I guess the question becomes: how do we (society) deal with these people? Both from a "return to life as normal", and "access to healthcare perspective"? And how do we distinguish between Anivaxxers and people who are genuinely unable to get vaccinated?
My position is that if you have refused a vaccine, then you will have to accept the consequences of that decision, which might range from not being able to work on a building site (the actual situation in Sydney right now), not being able to travel to certain countries, not being able to go on public transport, certain pubs restaurants etc. I don't know what the restrictions will be obviously - but I'm guessing that there will certainly be some that the "unvaccinated by choice" brigade will have to accept. France is doing this at the moment I think - be interesting to see how it goes.
The access to healthcare thing is a lot more tricky. I (obviously?) don't think that treatment should be denied to antivaxxers - as I think has been suggested previously. But the issue of NHS capacity obviously needs to be addressed. I think the US hospitals are pretty much at breaking point because of the number of "unvaccinated by choice" people - and we obviously can't allow a situation whereby antivaxxers are preventing the NHS to operate normally, servicing the remainder of the population.
I wonder whether setting up the nightingale hospitals (or similar) as private hospitals to treat "unvaccinated by choice" people is a potential solution? Ie: allow a private company to create additional healthcare capacity for these people, and charge them accordingly.
Obviously not a fully-formed proposal, and plenty to object to - I'm an avid supporter of the NHS, and public healthcare in general, but it looks like the NHS is going to need that additional capacity to deal with Covid patients for the foreseeable.
Anyway - lets please stop talking about Bliss specifically, and instead discuss antivaxxers more generally.
My position is that if you have refused a vaccine, then you will have to accept the consequences of that decision, which might range from not being able to work on a building site (the actual situation in Sydney right now), not being able to travel to certain countries, not being able to go on public transport, certain pubs restaurants etc. I don’t know what the restrictions will be obviously – but I’m guessing that there will certainly be some that the “unvaccinated by choice” brigade will have to accept. France is doing this at the moment I think – be interesting to see how it goes.
Perhaps also worth noting that, in Australia, if your kids haven't had their childhood vaccinations, then they aren't allowed to attend childcare centers (both "public" or "private") and are not eligible for benefits.
So there is precedent (here anyway) for the above.
What is even the point?
Obvious troll is obvious.
****s sake.
I don't think you can seriously hope to make a difference 'on facebook' or 'on' anything, but you can make inroads face to face.
I talk to this chap called Dave - it's not even like that's not his real name, the dude is literally called Dave - and he's pretty much circling the edge of the rabbit hole.
He's not beyond redemption, so i don't talk to him like he's an idiot. I am completely worried about him though.
My first interaction with him on this subject i admit i was a bit taken aback - i was lucky in some respects that he was with a co-worker who was also 'jabbed' - when he made what is a not entirely unreasonable point that it lacks some kind of 'long term' data. Myself and his co-worker were on hand to make the equally not unreasonable point that we were doing ok at least in the short term.
Next time we met i felt i'd at least made him think about his doubts - i made more of the fact that we do this not for ourselves but to protect others, he had obviously thought about that and had some strange counter-arguments. I think i made some good enough counters to his counters to make him think some more.
I like Dave, and think he is essentially a good person.
I haven't seen him since, but really can't wait until we next meet - it may be that this subject doesn't 'come up', and i will certainly not push it - i really think i'm getting somewhere.
I don't think this kind of interaction would have happened had it been conducted via facebook
What is even the point?
Obvious troll is obvious.
**** sake.
Agreed. As I said, I think He's a Troll and should be ignored. However, I think whether he is an antivaxxer, or is pretending to be an antivaxxer - people with those views DO exist, and we have to figure out a way of them coexisting in society with other people.
He’s not beyond redemption, so i don’t talk to him like he’s an idiot. I am completely worried about him though.
I agree with that too. I don't actually see people like "Dave" as an antivaxxer. It's entirely reasonable that joe public do not understand viruses or vaccines. That's why with both covid and the vaccines, a large-scale public education campaign has been necessary.
I also think it's reasonable for people to have concerns about the speed of the vaccine's rollout, the emergence of it's side effects, safety in young people etc etc. That certainly doesn't make you an idiot, in fact it makes you smarter than somebody who doesn't question that stuff.
But the difference between somebody with those concerns (Dave), and an antivaxxer..... is that Dave is actually looking for information/an explanation, and will hopefully accept information (facts) as they are given to him.
Even if after digesting all the information/facts available, Dave still decides that he doesn't want the vaccine because it hasn't passed the threshold of what he considers to be safe, I'll certainly think he's a fool, but I will respect him a lot more than somebody who rejects "modern science" and thinks covid is all some sort of conspiracy.
For the record, my words to Bliss from a few pages ago:
Thank you for stepping forward with your view.
Do you mind if I ask whether you are against all vaccines….. or just the covid ones?
I ask because maybe I can provide you some specific info on the safety/effectiveness of the covid ones – I work in drug development. If it’s all vaccines, then I’m probably fighting a losing battle from the outset, and probably shan’t bother (sorry – no offence)
Whether you believe that what the government is doing is “coercion” or “encouraging people to do the right thing to prevent people dying” is fundamentally linked to whether you believe that the vaccine (or vaccines generally) work – so unless you are prepared to share your view on that, then there’s not much to discuss here really.
If you check the times of Bliss's posts, you'll find they coincide with when The Pillow Guy took breaks from his symposium. Makes you think.
https://twitter.com/gvravel/status/1425617320588763139
at least his mum knows this to be the case, and politely ignores him.
Scientific evidence that mum's know best
Time for Mr Pratchett to comment, I feel:
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
This thread's title is very valid with what going on here.
Let me explain my theory as to why trolls and CTs continue to post torrents of nonsense online even though they're losing all arguments:
They are hoping that illiterate, or mental health deficient, people read the posts, and go to view even more media they spread. In confusion, a largish proportion of that segment of society will believe it.
How to del with them is to simply post evidence of refutal, and then walk away, whilst reporting every single post they made for the website mods (whichever platform) to clear up.
when he made what is a not entirely unreasonable point that it lacks some kind of ‘long term’ data. Myself and his co-worker were on hand to make the equally not unreasonable point that we were doing ok at least in the short term.
It is a good point and taking any drug/vaccine that has been available for less than a year does have the risk of long term affects. A pretty small risk, but a risk and maybe a risk that some of us wouldn't take depending on the drug/situation.
Dave is not an anti vexer, he is just hesitant with this vaccine.
If I were the shadowy Them, then I'm damn sure it would be in my power to target and eliminate those who don't bend to my evil vaccinating ways. No, Bliss hasn't been banned, they've shown themselves to be a worthy foe but ultimately by trying to educate you fools they lost and are now part of the vaccine solution. Be warned, take the vaccine, take bliss.
I for one welcome our new lizard overlords! It's clear what's happening, they created the virus to make us get the vax and in 5 years they'll flip the switch and we'll all mutate!
But into what????!!!!!????
Yes ‘they’ are actually spreading the anti vaxx BS to cull the morons amongst us
FWIW, I’ve got a mate who somewhat hilariously used to pump his body full of the recreational drugs of choice all weekend, every weekend in his younger years. There weren’t many weekends he wasn’t off his tits at a rave somewhere.
But, now he is a very vocal anti-vaxxer on Facebook pasting links to the latest hog-wash nonsense about global conspiracies, poison, anti-establishment, sheeple etc.
But he had no issue buying a completely unknown substance from a shady bloke in the corner of a nightclub or field week after week after week and snorting it up his nose or swallowing it.
The only anti-vaxxer I know is the same, do we know the same person?
Oh, and anyone who talks about overpopulation - you can personally do something to help 'solve' this. Just saying.
Oh, and anyone who talks about overpopulation – you can personally do something to help ‘solve’ this. Just saying.
I have. I’ve spoken to my youngest lad & explained why I wouldn’t have kids now. I mean would you want to have kids now with such an uncertain future the planet’s facing? I wouldn’t, my two are 38 & 34 & I'm very worried about what the future holds for them.
34 years ago I think the the topic of the ozone layer was just coming in, who’d of thought we’d be in this shit state now? Apart from scientists.
@bliss - A couple of pages ago you outlined your reasons for not wanting the vaccine. Thank you.
One line tripped me up: A one-world government.
Why is that a bad thing in your worldview? In my worldview, that sort of thing can't come soon enough as I have real difficulty with the concept of national pride or patriotism. It's all an accident of birth!
One line tripped me up: A one-world government.
Why is that a bad thing in your worldview?
All depends what the one-world government would be like. If it were say like the UK government it would be ****ing awful wouldn't it. And how would the world vote for the one-world government.
(Sorry, answering on behalf of Bliss there and I am sure their response will contain a lot more conspiracy nonsense.)
Dave is not an anti vexer, he is just hesitant with this vaccine.
This is a very important point. As ever, the world is dividing into two simple camps and losing people in the middle.
I'm pretty sure Bliss has been banned, he's an obvious troll and seems to have vanished.
he has previous....
This is a very important point. As ever, the world is dividing into two simple camps and losing people in the middle.
“WOts tHeM campS tho? ComMie PEdOz ElItez POisoNJABBED tIcKinG TimEbOmbS vS FreeDumBz wARRiOrZ AKA juSt nOrmAl PPL”
I mean, you can see their point - as which would you rather be if you were dull-witted enough to feel ‘in the middle’ or undecided?
that’s rather splendid.
It is SOM, I didn't think anyone would watch it, being a tiktok!
I have some issue with labelling Bliss a troll. It suggests that he's not representative of the population and if we collectively ignore him, the problem ceases to exist. But vaccine-uptake is well documented and less than 100% so these people are clearly out there and there is still a serious problem here.
I find it much more likely that he's wandered into a self-reinforcing echo chamber of anti-vax views (elsewhere) who think they've got one-up on the rest of us. Deliberate trolling seems less likely.
Never ascribe to malice something that can be attributed to stupidity
- Mark Twain, probably
Bliss has also admitted to some issues on another thread a few days back, have a wee think folks. It's not all black and white.
I’m pretty sure Bliss has been banned, he’s an obvious troll and seems to have vanished.
Maybe, for me it was comments that they'd been a fully paid up member of a neo-nazi organisation that pushed me into outright hostility. I've reasons, many very personal why I feel strongly about this.
Bliss has also admitted to some issues on another thread a few days back, have a wee think folks. It’s not all black and white.
Duly noted, I'm sorry if Bliss is indeed going through some difficult times.
Maybe, for me it was comments that they’d been a fully paid up member of a neo-nazi organisation that pushed me into outright hostility.
Well, on the bright side, at least he's not a nihilist.
I have some issue with labelling Bliss a troll
I don't. I've not looked the definition of an internet troll if there is one but for me they are someone who puts out comments that they don't believe in but know will get a rise. His/her waffle struck me as a bullshit bingo keyword download not a truly held believe. To want to do that is of course itself a sign of metal health issues, especially about an issue such as this but reasoning with a troll is not an act of trying to change their beliefs because they didn't hold them in the first place.
Duly noted, I’m sorry if Bliss is indeed going through some difficult times.
The difficulty on a forum is knowing whether someone is either a troll or are mentally ill. The fact a person joins a bike forum and then posts in an anti-vax thread would suggest troll.
If however they are not a troll then they have mental health issues, paranoia being a primary one, and should be helped rather than ridiculed.
I was thinking more broadly about the antivax and conspiracy belief thing again last night.....
In the last few days I've:-
Had a nephew stay with us who dominates his parents and at the dinner table as a guest in the house feels entitled/enabled to say 'I don't like this - is there something else I can have'? And his parents run around trying facilitate that for him.
Had a friend get a diagnosis at the GP that they are not happy about and then write to anyone/everyone to get and 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion.
Had my wife rant on about a young member of the team who joined 9 months ago sending email after email to her and the director demanding/requesting a promotion and pay rise. She is not yet experienced enough or remotely demonstrated the skills and aptitude for this and there is not a role vacant to be promoted into. These things have been explained to her but the emails keep on coming.
I'm not judging any of these examples (I am the first and last, the 2nd not really) but I'd say they are examples of a society that is prepared to defer to experience, knowledge or authority less and less. Go back 20-30 years and these sort of examples would be much rarer but seem to be increasingly common. Some up sides to this - experience, knowledge or authority are not always right and challenging is good at times. But with this feeling of entitlement or enablement the logical next step is rejection of all experts of your choice and replacing acknowledged opinion with your own, giving it similar or greater weighting. The leap from "I think I am entitled to a promotion despite what you think and evidence to the contrary" to "I think vaccines are dangerous and designed to harm up despite what the acknowledged experts think" is not a large one. I'm coming to the troubling conclusion that we are breading an expert and experience rejecting conspiracy vulnerable society.
Well, on the bright side, at least he’s not a nihilist.
I mean, say what you like about the tenets of Anti-Vaxxism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
Put simply we as a species are simply not equipped to deal with the exponential explosion of available information, and the resulting breakdown of trusted institutions brought about by the internet.
We are only really evolved for how we lived 10,000 years ago, and it's really starting to show...
The difficulty on a forum is knowing whether someone is either a troll or are mentally ill.
No, the difficulty on this forum is the sad propensity for a hardcore of posters to pile in with personal attacks on anyone who doesn't share the same opinions as them and label people who don't share the 'accepted' echo chamber opinion as mentally ill. In this case culminating with the veiled suggestion that the poster kill themselves.
No, the difficulty on this forum is the sad propensity for a hardcore of posters to pile in with personal attacks on anyone who doesn’t share the same opinions as them and label people who don’t share the ‘accepted’ echo chamber opinion as mentally ill.
Um.... Did you read what he actually wrote? That he harangued his mother not to take the vaccine and the stuff about the mark of the beast, the national front etc? Those are extreme views, and many people actually did try and engage constructively.
No, the difficulty on this forum is the sad propensity for a hardcore of posters to pile in with personal attacks on anyone who doesn’t share the same opinions as them and label people who don’t share the ‘accepted’ echo chamber opinion as mentally ill
This particular poster believed there was a global conspiracy to kill billions but didn't believe the Nazis killed 6 million Jews.
Yeah, I've got limited sympathy, if I'm honest.
I find it much more likely that he’s wandered into a self-reinforcing echo chamber of anti-vax views (elsewhere) who think they’ve got one-up on the rest of us
(Hands Hanlon’s Razor back)
In this case culminating with the veiled suggestion that the poster kill themselves.
I didn't see anything like that?
Um…. Did you read what he actually wrote? That he harangued his mother not to take the vaccine and the stuff about the mark of the beast, the national front etc? Those are extreme views, and many people actually did try and engage constructively.
This.
No, the difficulty on this forum is the sad propensity for a hardcore of posters to pile in with personal attacks on anyone who doesn’t share the same opinions as them and label people who don’t share the ‘accepted’ echo chamber opinion as mentally ill
You have read all of what Bliss has written and you don't think they are mentally ill?
(If we assume they are not trolling)
I don’t know if Bliss is a Troll but these people do exist. I have a friend from school who I now only see on facebook who believes in the Great Reset and that all of us who are vaccinated are going to die in the next 5 years amongst other things. Mainly she posts memes about how only they know what is going on and the rest of us are zombies or sheep for believing the lie. I believe she has a bubble of friends who support this and reinforce the idea in each other.
I’ve thought hard about whether to try and debate with her about why her ideas don’t make sense but everything I know about her and everything I’ve read about cognitive biases make me think it’s wouldn’t be a great idea as I’d probably just make her double down as our opinions are too far apart. So far I have just avoided talking about Covid on the basis that she’ll need some more sane friends again if she can climb out of this rabbit hole and I don’t want to alienate her.
The thing is I understand why she has been susceptible to these lies. The NHS failed a close family member when she was a child due to a missed diagnosis leading to a distrust of doctors. She has very little job security and no power over her surroundings. These charlatans have offered concrete answers and said that because she believes them she is special and given a group to belong to. Even at the same time as making her scared and angry that we don’t understand that she’s just trying to save us.
I’d love to make her understand that she is being taken in by a lie but have no idea how.
Mainly she posts memes about how only they know what is going on and the rest of us are zombies or sheep for believing the lie
<sarcasm>Make sure that you prostrate yourself before her accusations. Don’t raise an eyebrow. Be a simpering pile of polite deference and understanding.</sarcasm>
Absolutely don’t tell her to ‘stop being a massive numpty’. Because though you may be flummoxed, you needn’t be a monster.
Source:
“Treat everyone with politeness and kindness, not because they are nice, but because you are.”
I do sympathise. Have a cousin who I’ve always loved (not like that!) like a (albeit distant) brother and met up recently (2019) before Covid times and he was skirting the ‘flat earth’ argument. When he questioned my thoughts on it I made the honest mistake’ of raising an eyebrow, and I knew from that moment forward that I’d been filed under ‘not a trusted source’. Of course since Covid broke he’s gone into utter meltdown and I only heard (for a while) from him via mass emails, never anything personal. This was the sign-off:
If you delete this email or ignore the attached links ... and/or still go ahead and have the vaccination without further independent research (i.e. not what the mainstream lying media are telling you) then you are either:
1. Willingly and willfully ignorant
2. F*cking brainless/stupidIn which case you really do deserve everything that is going to happen to you ...
😢. So long cuz. Wish you’d have written to me personally, but at some point in your journey I just became a ‘number’.
Um…. Did you read what he actually wrote? That he harangued his mother not to take the vaccine and the stuff about the mark of the beast, the national front etc? Those are extreme views, and many people actually did try and engage constructively.
I also did try to engage constructively by asking questions and being civil. For various reasons, not all of which I'm prepared to share on a public forum I am not sympathetic to anyone to is calling for tolerance whilst stating that they support an organisation that is neither tolerant, nor civilised.
This particular poster believed there was a global conspiracy to kill billions but didn’t believe the Nazis killed 6 million Jews.
It's one of the reasons why I follow this account on twitter. My own view is that we all have a responsibility to ensure that such a thing never happens again, however uncomfortable it might be to learn about the individual victims of such a terrible thing.
in this case culminating with the veiled suggestion that the poster kill themselves.
I did not see anyone explicitly suggest such a thing in this thread.
I did not see anyone explicitly suggest such a thing in this thread.
Guess it was this line
Oh, and anyone who talks about overpopulation – you can personally do something to help ‘solve’ this. Just saying.
Oh, and anyone who talks about overpopulation – you can personally do something to help ‘solve’ this. Just saying.
When that was posted, I read it to mean "don't have children." But, yeah, looking at it again...
Guess it was this line
Oh, and anyone who talks about overpopulation – you can personally do something to help ‘solve’ this. Just saying.
I assumed that was advice not to have kids, some of you have very dark minds.
I thought it meant kill yourself.
Personally I think one less holocaust denier wouldn't be the end of the world so I didn't really care.
Plenty of us are struggling with mental illness and suicidal thoughts. Most of us don't go down the path of fascism.
**** him, even if he was 'just' a troll.