[Closed] Arguing with anti vaxxers on Facebook

Here's How The Top 10 Things Bill Gates is Putting in Fake Coronavirus Vaccines To Control Your Baby Eating Satanists Will Blow Your Mind!

5G innit.

We have ex friends who are anti vax, anti school,anti processed food etc. Note the ex friends part.

anti friends, you might say

Here’s How The Top 10 Things Bill Gates is Putting in Fake Coronavirus Vaccines To Control Your Baby Eating 5G Satanists Will Blow Your Mind!

thanks perchy, I forgot about 5G.

mind you, someone reminded me the other day, I also forgot about dre

I have found my stress levels much reduced since I just blocked any of my 'friends' who posted such bollocks. There is no point engaging as, like with most conspiracies, they will just shift the narrative to conveniently by-pass any evidence you produce to refute their ramblings.

Do not argue, state the reason why you find their post distasteful/dangerous and leave it at that. IMO spreading this kind of nonsense is too important a thing to leave without comment.

It's not just Facebook. You'll come up against the same folk on other social media platforms (e.g. this one)

I've just stepped away from some brexiters who were telling me that the trade deals we've done so far are better than what we had in the EU and prove that all the naysaying was just Project Fear. Then they said that Nissan would have to expand Sunderland because we wouldn't be able to buy cars from anywhere else - which I don't think was such a strong argument for their case as they thought it was.
I despair for the human race.

Have you seen this that's doing the rounds?

https://twitter.com/samueljrob/status/1331005392655175687?s=19

The moon landings didn't happen, vaccines are part of a global conspiracy as foretold in the Bible, atom bombs are fake, and a sprinkling of racism. From a professor of physics and astronomy!

On the main covid thread I asked anyone not intending to get the vaccine what their rational was, given that pretty much all the posters on there with any scientific knowledge said they would fine taking it

Unsurprisingly I didn't get an answer...

I think other than the loons who believe in microchips and 5g there are 2 reasons for not wanting it. The first, perhaps somewhat understandable, is the timeline it's been developed, although this would be based on the false assumption that safety steps in process have been bypassed

The second is because I don't think folks want to be told what to do 'by the man'. These people are selfish idiots imo..

@bails I'm not going to look. Your synopsis has my blood pressure off the scale. Thanks for that! 🙄 😄

I find it a useful tool to find out who didn't pay attention at school.

Then they said that Nissan would have to expand Sunderland because we wouldn’t be able to buy cars from anywhere else

Presumably because every other factory in the UK has shut down?

I quite enjoy lobbing the odd verbal hand grenade into the usual Facebook anti-cyclists rants. Not tried anti-vaxxers though, I suspect that that's a whole other level of half-wittery.

There are almost a hierarchy of shit arguments of social media that goes something like this:

Anti Cycling -> Pro Brexit -> Anti Vax -> 5G -> Flat Earth -> Chemtrails -> ZOMG LIZARDS!!

Presumably because every other factory in the UK has shut down?

I think it was because the vaccine would make us all believe that the only acceptable car was a Qashqai

The moon landings didn’t happen, vaccines are part of a global conspiracy as foretold in the Bible,

Well there is the massive red alarm bell, anyone quoting something from the Bible ain't gonna be rational.

There was a guy on 5live last week saying he won't be having the vaccine because "who's pockets do you think are getting lined, where is all the money going!?" Nicky Campbell just said "so what!?" He had no coherant answer, but still won't be getting it.

I think it was because the vaccine would make us all believe that the only acceptable car was a Qashqai

My brother had a qashqai 3 years ago.

ZOMFG he already had the vaccine! The lizards are real!

anyone quoting something from the Bible ain’t gonna be rational.

I quite often quote from the bible in discussion, there's much wisdom in it once you get away from the smiting and the begatting.

Also, some of the smartest people I know have religious faith but i've yet to meet a really bright conspiracy theorist.

Here’s How The Top 10 Things Bill Gates is Putting in Fake Coronavirus Vaccines To Control Your Baby Eating Satanists Will Blow Your Mind!

You won't believe #7!!

Recently I engaged with some people on a Flat Earth twitter page.

I took the position that the earth was flat. It was far more fun knowing I was wrong saying how easy it was to fake all their evidence than it ever is arguing for the other side. It was way less tiring - maybe that's why so many people believe it?

An interesting article from BBC News from a couple years ago...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/the_godfather_of_fake_news

I would suggest that anti-vax and conspiracy nonsense posts should be reported to FB.

I tend to post a link to FullFact, like this: https://fullfact.org/health/bill-gates-chips-bbc/

It is tough, I tend to think that people spreading this claptrap should be immediately shut down. They say it in a way like they know better and they are trying to educate me.

I would suggest that anti-vax and conspiracy nonsense posts should be reported to FB.

I did this for a bit when FB friends posted clear propaganga or factually inaccurate stuff. FB were very good at removing it.

I just like using the laughing emoji thing and walk away.

I got into a "discussion" with someone who was insistent that the virus dies the moment it is outside the body as all viruses need a host to survive. He had no answer when I asked how people catch a harmless dead virus without snogging every stranger they meet

On the main covid thread I asked anyone not intending to get the vaccine what their rational was, given that pretty much all the posters on there with any scientific knowledge said they would fine taking it

Unsurprisingly I didn’t get an answer…

Perhaps @tpbiker they thought you were looking for a fight and didn't want to make your day?

I would suggest that anti-vax and conspiracy nonsense posts should be reported to FB.

You could try reporting stuff like that on STW to the Mods.

You won’t believe #7!!

I only came for the link. #disappointment

Anyway The Great Reset is over at lockdownsceptics.org - I'm still none the wiser.

I had one...a girl I dated once upon a time who seemed nice and not too dim. However, over the years she's been sucked into every conspiracy going including the one that the EU was about to issue a directive banning hair straighteners, that the Lisbon Treaty was about take everyone's "sovereignty" away and whatnot. She emigrated to Oz and started work as a nurse, but was apparently laid off back in March.

Since then we've had 5g, Covid being a hoax, Covid not being a hoax but less deadly than flu, Covid being caused by 5G...

When Facebook flags any of her posts for being misinformation, that's apparently the fault of Bill Gates. Oh and now she seems to like Trump too.

I dodged a bullet there I think.

Funny enough one of my friends asked me at the weekend if I'd be getting the 'jab'. I said yes, in fact I'd already signed up for a trial.

He said he wouldn't, and we were actually able to have a reasonably chat about it, well as reasonable as you can blowing out your arse at a 2m range.

His argument was fairly reasonable in my book.

He's youngish 40, out of the high risk group, fit and with no known health problems.

Should he catch Covid, there's a greater than 80% chance he wont even notice and 98% chance it won't make it ill enough to need any sort of treatment lower than 0.01% chance it'll prove fatal. (I don't know if those figures are accurate, but they seem to be).

On the other hand you have a brand new Vaccine. We debated the argument about "Rushed v done quickly with almost unlimited resources" but I couldn't argue with the fact the vaccine is no more than 6 months old, and some of them aren't 'just' some dead covid cells in egg white, but pretty new ways of getting an antibody response. Whilst the risks are probably very low, I don't think anyone can say that these vaccines don't cause long term health issues, because there's not a soul on earth who has had it more than a few months.

Also, whilst 30k people is a lot of people, none of those 30k people is exactly the same as him.

He considered the risks and decided it was safer not to have it.

My argument was really the only argument I really cared about, it was more important to me that we stopped the spread of the virus, more than my own personal protection from it, which he made another reasonable point. None of the virus makers have made any claim to the fact it will stop you spreading the virus, only it will protect you from getting ill. If it's proven to stop the spread of the virus, then that changes the equation.

I find it quite ironic how most rat lickers have already had their immunisations, my sister being one of them. They are a blight on the community.

After spending 6months of commenting that what they are spewing on FB is bollox I've just blocked or removed them from my FB friends. Ironically, one posted in April about signing up for vaccine trials, but now won't get the vaccine!

Had one FB friend share a load of hate (Brexit related) and he blocked me when I called him up on it.

uselesshippy
Free Member
I find it a useful tool to find out who didn’t pay attention at school.

This 100%

My argument was really the only argument I really cared about, it was more important to me that we stopped the spread of the virus, more than my own personal protection from it, which he made another reasonable point. None of the virus makers have made any claim to the fact it will stop you spreading the virus, only it will protect you from getting ill. If it’s proven to stop the spread of the virus, then that changes the equation.

But that's exactly how vaccines work and how you stop the spread, become immune! If enough people are immune you stop the spread and the virus dies.
My wife has an autoimmune disorder, we as a family have the flu jab every year. I don't have it because I don't want to catch flu, rather because I don't want to spread it to my wife.

Pissing in the wind.
You know you are.
Any "victory" you have is likely to be pyrrhic.
Either:
Completely ignore them and, as mentioned up there, exorcise them from your life.
Or:
Hose fuel onto their bonfire. As much as you can. Suggest spliffs are antidotes to microchips and LSD "reflects 5G radiation". That sort of thing.

It doesn't really matter though does it? I mean it's not like there's going to be a Hollywood ending, whereby they all suddenly realised they are talking shit and run off down to the library, is there?

It's a glide slope, you might flatten it a bit, but it's still points down. Get with the Farage et al - Stop seeing them as worthy, emotional, souls and see them as walking sacks of shit who have got too much of what soon will be, your money. (Not my modus operandi, but it might work for you).

Trouble is with getting it removed is then they think it's all part of the conspiracy and they are being censored. Then maybe they end up on Parler or Qanon sites and get even more nutty.

My solution is just to not use FB so I don't get wound up, but it doesn't really solve anything.

Some people just can't cope with the fact that life is confusing, chaotic and complex - turns out maybe we did need religion after all.

P-Jay - your mate makes rational points, even though I disagree with his choice. Lots of the opposition is utterly irrational though

No shortage of them in my industry, which I find a bit worrying.

On the main covid thread I asked anyone not intending to get the vaccine what their rational was,

My rational would be that any longer term after affects are completely unknown and untested and as I am in a fairly low risk group and already had the virus many months ago with only symptom being a slightly odd throat for a week I am not convinced in the merits of me having the vaccine.

My rational would not be based on microchips being implanted with the vaccine.

There is also the tactic of one-upping their conspiracy theories. For eg

Conspiracy theorist: 'The moon landings were faked'
Me: 'Ah, so you are one of them?'
CT: 'What do you mean?'
Me: 'You believe the moon exists' etc

Quite good sport if you can be bothered 😀

The tossers are everywhere, some do it for giggles I reckon.

Even on the King Alfred Way Facebook group, somebody has started a rumour that it will be gravel bike only and will be surfaced next year in chippings...

Well there is the massive red alarm bell, anyone quoting something from the Bible ain’t gonna be rational.

Proverbs 8:5-15
O simple ones, learn prudence; O fools, learn sense. Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right, for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips. All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them. They are all straight to him who understands, and right to those who find knowledge.

CT: ‘What do you mean?’
Me: ‘You believe the moon exists’ etc

I thought the sun and the moon were the same thing.

My rational would be that any longer term after affects are completely unknown and untested and as I am in a fairly low risk group and already had the virus many months ago with only symptom being a slightly odd throat for a week I am not convinced in the merits of me having the vaccine.

The merits are you don't spread it to anyone else, your family, or anyone elses. As an added bonus the more people that are vaccinated the quick we get rid of restrictions, lock downs and the massive international financial burden.

Well there is the massive red bell end, anyone quoting something from the Bible ain’t gonna be rational.

there was a lot of begotting in the bible I hear

P jays post shows that there's reason and rational thinking on both sides of the vaccine argument.
It's not really about the vaccine.
If you drew the Venn diagram then it's the "arguing on Facebook" set that's guaranteed to contain the subset "all the loons".

This is a better one..

Titus 3:10
As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,

The tossers are everywhere, some do it for giggles I reckon.

This is part of the problem though. I definitely reckon with the flat earth stuff there was so much trolling going on on both sides, but now lots of people actually do believe it - or at least don't care if it's true or not but find it fun to say they do, which is pretty much the same thing.

Is there anything in any bible type handy pocket guide to life thing that actually transcends the level of "Ensure food is thoroughly cooked and piping hot"?

Anything?

At all?

The merits are you don’t spread it to anyone else

And the vaccine stops this happening?

I am also not talking about merits, I gave an example of rational I could use personally for not wanting the vaccine. Are my concerns over long term and unknown affects for no personal benefit to me not valid?

None of the virus makers have made any claim to the fact it will stop you spreading the virus, only it will protect you from getting ill. If it’s proven to stop the spread of the virus, then that changes the equation.

That was one of my thoughts - but as I understand it the vaccine will dull the virus enough to stop you shedding it as you go about your daily business and hence reduce infection rates.

I might be wrong though...

The merits are you don’t spread it to anyone else, your family, or anyone elses. As an added bonus the more people that are vaccinated the quick we get rid of restrictions, lock downs and the massive international financial burden.

That depends on the efficacy of the vaccine and I am not sure all the results are out yet to determine this. Some vaccines lessen the effect of being ill but you can still be contagious, others make you immune and thus unable to spread it.

Further it is unclear at this stage whether the vaccine will be a one off like say TB or whether it will need to be an annual program, whether the virus will mutate and necessitate further developments with the vaccine etc.

It is too simplistic at this stage to state that if everyone gets vaccinated we are out of the woods.

Nailing my colours to a mast; I am very pro-vaccine but I would like a few people to have this one before me, just to be sure 🙂

I genuinely believe that around 20% of humans are unable to look past their own insignificant bubble. They can't quantify who large the earth is, or the solar system, universe. Can't visualise what 7.5 billion people is, and the realise that they are only one of them, less than .000000000133%

Climate change deniers can't seem to fathom that their own contribution to climate change is relevent, and if you were to multiply it by 7.5billion it becomes significantly larger problem.

Antivaxers are the similarly enclosed in their own bubble. Worried about their own skin, unaware of how and why vaccines work. Sad thing is the antivax people I know are genuinely nice caring people, but only at a small social level.

It is too simplistic at this stage to state that if everyone gets vaccinated we are out of the woods

Completely agree with what you've said. I have to write quick posts between work, so I tend to generalise.
I'll just say that as a healthy 40+yr old, I bet I've more chance of catching and dieing of Covid than getting a serious long term health condition from almost any vaccination, add into that my parents & wife who are at significantly highter risk.

@P-Jay link for stats:

https://fullfact.org/health/covid-ifr-more-01/

I know, it’s a waste of time, but I can’t help myself.

Its worse than a waste of time - you can be unwittingly just as active in reinforcing these belief systems through argument as the people who's view your challenging  - you're both repeating the same messages whether you're arguing for or against it.

Theres are genuine civic duty we all have to try not to let these kinds of falsehoods propagate. But being right and telling people they are wrong doesn't work. I mean - it obviously and persistently consistently doesn't work and yet clever people still do it. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." as Einstein didn't say.

If you're going to put time into arguing with with antivaxxers, flat earthers or whatever maybe first put the time into learning how to confront these people in a way that doesn't strengthen their resolve and amplify their message.

Well there is the massive red alarm bell, anyone quoting something from the Bible ain’t gonna be rational.

Yeah you don't want that millstone around your neck. The writing is on the wall for anyone who thinks a leopard can change their spots. Its the blind leading the blinds really - no point arguing, you're just casting pearls before swine. You'll be at your wits end.

I'm pretty sure I convinced a couple of people. Whether it sticks I don't know. TBH I just like arguing with people, I tend to come out of it a bit more informed regardless of whether the other person moves an inch but I reckon there's a lot of marginal anti vax people just now, who're worried about testing/safety and have read some stuff about Bill Gates etc but who haven't quite made the conversion over to Actual Lunatic, and there's plenty of people doing their best to push them the rest of the way. Maybe the right word at the right time can nudge someone back into the reality-based community.

TBH I reckon most people who're "skeptics" (ie believe random stuff on the internet but not scientists) will change their tune once the vaccine's out and about and they see people confidently and safely going about their business. By the time more people can have it, more people will want it, and while the paranoia is at its highest there won't be enough to go around anyway so it's probably a little bit of a moot point.

@P-Jay link for stats:

https://fullfact.org/health/covid-ifr-more-01//blockquote >

Thanks, his figure were based on more data, factoring in his age, BMI, level of fitness etc. I've looked into it as much as you can with 15 mins spare and no more than Google, I can't claim he's not right.

 

Stop posting full fact articles - currently having a discussion on Twitter with an ex-Brexit Party Candidate & *checks notes* Full Fact tell lies.

https://twitter.com/rdevitoboutin/status/1331220768412282880

I think it was because the vaccine would make us all believe that the only acceptable car was a Qashqai

I don't want this to get lost in all the background chatter on this thread. This is some serious shit!

i love the idea that vaccines will turn us into complacent worker drones doing the state’s bidding. or, perhaps i prefer the notion that folk think they that they aren’t going to work and following the rules.

I tend to post a link to FullFact

Well that's just part of the big conspiracy!! It's says so somewhere in the Bible.

I have a friend who is otherwise very sensible, a successful businessman and generally very pleasant to speak to.

However, he is a massive anti-establishment consipiracist, believes everything that David Icke says, and is rabidly anti-vax and a huge Brexiteer.

We just steer completely away from any potential contentious topic of conversation and we're both happier. Still think he's batshit crazy though.

As for Facebook, well, your first mistake was actually being on Facebook.

Oh god, that comment in the Twitter link up there ^^

BTW, please research fullfact - its funders are not impartial

This is cherry picking - you find a lot of these people claim to want data and facts and information and statistics. They don't. They want information that backs up THEIR point of view.

Any other info is rubbished: It's not impartial. It's out of date. It's flawed (they never actually say HOW it's flawed...). It's biased. It's commissioned by [one of them]. It's written by [one of them]. It's left-wing.

Even in less obvious areas - the implementation of LTNs for example is falling into the same sort of rabbit hole where a story in the Daily Mail of a fire engine blocked by a planter gets posted and quoted ad infintum. The comment from London Fire Brigade rubbishing the whole story and saying it wasn't the case, they're in favour of LTNs and so on gets trashed as being fake, left-wing, published on a biased cycling website, the evil council must have paid the Fire Brigade to say that...

You just can't win.

The merits are you don’t spread it to anyone else, your family, or anyone elses. As an added bonus the more people that are vaccinated the quick we get rid of restrictions, lock downs and the massive international financial burden.

I've been getting busy with the old Google-Fu during my lunch break, in answer to the question "does the vaccine stop the spread of the virus, or just stop you getting ill" the only answer you'll get from a reputable source I can see is "we don't know yet".

Knowing little bit about how it's transmitted (don't we all now), I suspected it probably would simply because you're less likely to be coughing or have a fever that's going to leave your sweat on everything you touch, but it's said that 50% of transmissions come from asymptomatic carriers.

It hasn't changed my mind, if I'm offered one (which is slightly more likely than most as my Wife is clinical NHS) I'll certainly have it, and hope it stops transmission. I doubt my Mate will change his mind either. As far as he's concerned it's a very low-risk virus for him personally and unless they can 'prove' it stops transmission it won't pass his own personal risk/reward test.

Perhaps @tpbiker they thought you were looking for a fight and didn’t want to make your day?

Nope..

I was genuinely interested in why people who have zero knowledge of the subject can be so against it, when those who do know something about it are all for it.

Without any forthcoming explanation, it very much appears any justification is irrational..

I think it was because the vaccine would make us all believe that the only acceptable car was a Qashqai

At least it prevents Corollavirus

At least it prevents Corollavirus

And with that PP wins the thread and it can cease 😀

I keep on following one school friend on FB who is anti EU and thinks Clinton is last of some conspiracy. I occasionally go on a MD argue but it's relatively pointless, I continue to follow him as I find it good to keep track of what BS is currently spreading around.

That corolla one is awful..... Even worse than the thought a vaccine might make you like a quashqai.
I have been talking to various friends about the vaccine and their main question with knowing my background is would I have it. When I reply yes, they seem to be a bit more open to the idea.

Has Josh bryceland popped up yet to tell us we're all wrong, and Bill gates is trying to take over the world?

Is there any data suggesting having covid once means you will respond the same way if you got it again?

What is powering these vaccine microchips??

My phone battery barely lasts a day

Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired

said Swift...probably

chap in my office told me yesterday, that one of the ingredients in this new vaccine is.....

a small amount of lung sample, from a 14 week foetus.

Which firstly is a horrible thought, but secondly, who knew these pharmaceutical company's stocked such thing. Does a foetus even have lungs at 14 weeks?! I have no clue!

Needless to say I ripped the urine for a while, thankfully he realised what the internet told him might not be accurate.

One of the COVID vaccines does have “porcine” elements included in its manufacture. I’m pretty sure it’s a negligible amount and I think most sensible Imams and Rabbis have advised that it’s OK ( there’s no alternative and it’s an emergency) but I will guarantee it will feature in a conspiracy coming to you soon...

I ripped the urine

He probably drunk it. If you can stomach it look for all the urine therapy groups on Facebook and the like.

As for the aborted foetus this; some vaccines do have stem cells that were grown originally from an aborted foetus from many years ago but they are essentially just a lab product these days so like any conspiracy there is a foundation of truth in it.

Humans aren't rational. No, not even you - the difference is that people vary where they apply their irrationality.

Anti vaxxers are making an emotive argument dressed up as rational, without realising it. They can be manipulated by appealing to their emotions.

One of the COVID vaccines does have “porcine” elements included in its manufacture. I’m pretty sure it’s a negligible amount and I think most sensible Imams and Rabbis have advised that it’s OK ( there’s no alternative and it’s an emergency) but I will guarantee it will feature in a conspiracy coming to you soon…

In much the same way that the new £5 note used tallow (a form of animal fat) in it's manufacture and all the vegans promptly got outraged and the trashier papers were screaming about bank notes containing ANIMAL FAT and how vegans were preparing to bring a LANDMARK LEGAL CASE.

In amongst all the OUTRAGE! was a lovely article about how much tallow was actually required to produce the roughly 329 million £5 notes in circulation across their expected lifespan. About half of one cow.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/dp3eyq/a-very-precise-calculation-of-exactly-how-many-cows-are-being-murdered-for-the-new-fivers

Even worse than the thought a vaccine might make you like a quashqai.

I though severe disease led to a Juke brochure?

And Rule 1 innit

https://www.veganfriendly.org.uk/health-fitness/vaccines/

CHO cells are Chinese Hamster Ovary cells. Most antibodies are manufactured using them, some subunit vaccines too. They aren't vegan friendly. But Rule 1 applies here.

In an ideal world, animals would not be tested on at all. But the world is far from ideal at the moment. And given the possible and practicable section of the definition allows for scenarios such as this, we think it is not a contradiction for vegans to receive the Covid-19 vaccine, or indeed any other that is likely to stop them (or others) getting seriously ill or possibly even facing death.

So what vaccine is everyone taking?

Moderna
Pfizer
Astra Zeneca

They all work in different ways with varying efficacy...

Sadly most of the arguments I see on both sides re pro / anti are mostly uninformed and poorly debated.

Next question - Anyone buying shares in any of the above so we can start another investment thread 😂