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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-67470549
Right-wing libertarian outsider Javier Milei has won Argentina's presidential run-off poll, according to provisional results.
Don't her me wrong, their country's economy is in a mess, it makes ours look world beating. He's got some, well... Interesting solutions though.
Ones that stand out amongst many? Get rid of the Argentinian Central Bank. Not reform it, simply get rid of it. Secondly, ditch their currency and "simply" use the US Dollar.
He's a political outsider and libertarian, a self professed "pundit", a true Truss and Farage mash up. He's been elected as a candidate for change and in fairness, there is true and widespread poverty over there... But hell, I can't but help think they are just about to see what populist, libertarian economics does when it hits reality. Hard.
It's going to be messy and I can't help but feel sorry for the poor sods over there that will end up paying the price.
We all know who will be paying that price too, the poorer in society.
Do we need to dust the Vulcans off?
The Argentine economy is a thread in itself and has effectively been using the US dollar anyway. Whether this is what’s driving inflation, I don’t know. Given that even the banks give you the blue dollar rate when using a foreign credit card the writing has been on the wall for a while.
Even if it goes horribly wrong it means an unpleasant man and his right-wing government will get the blame.
Do we need to dust the Vulcans off?
Probably. Last time I was there he was using the war memorial as a site for a campaign meeting / press conference. On the bright side many younger people don’t care about them, both in Argentina and the UK. Frankly when you look on a map it’s insane that we maintain a claim over them at all.
Frankly when you look on a map it’s insane that we maintain a claim over them at all.
Until Antarctica starts getting mined for oil, then it will suddenly seem worth it 🙁
It boils my piss that, no matter where you go around the world, these right wing populist nut jobs can keep pulling the same shit, and people keep falling for it.
Feels to me that there's a worrying increasing global trend for voters to suspend morals, politics, environment if someone promises more money/less tax.
I know that's always been the case, but seems the public are more and more willing to go with the extreme to achieve that.
Is it simply that fundamental, individual, genetic human greed is finally here to finish us off?
Is it not less to do with a “claim” now and more to do with the people that live there not wanting to be part of Argentina?
This. A friend has just gone out to work there, the Islanders have no reason or connection to want to be Argentinian.
The Falklands were my first thought when I saw the news - the war started when a right wing regime needed a distraction from economic problems, and it shored up our own right wing government as well.
Iirc Argentina didn't exist when we took the Islands? May well be wrong.
It boils my piss that, no matter where you go around the world, these right wing populist nut jobs can keep pulling the same shit, and people keep falling for it.
I think it's because it works on simple psychology, easy emotive stuff, rather than thinking the average person actually engages with politics or understands how policies work. Bannon et al understood this.
No matter how bad it gets there's always blame "and it's not your fault so let me fix it"
It still relies on people being fooled. That maybe because they are not interested and just take the headlines and soundbites or maybe because they are not overly intelligent but either way those so morally bankrupt that they profit from it are the problem and every country seems to have them.
Using the usd should stop inflation (which has been a massive issue for them for years), but gives you very little ability to control the economy. Be interesting to see how it works out,they aren't the first to adopt it anyway
Be interesting to see how it works out,they aren’t the first to adopt it anyway
Exactly, plenty of currencies pegged to USD. As ever it's not always the destination that's the problem it's the journey to get there and how painful that is.
All expense paid holidays to Buenos Aires. and you’ll come back lighter and richer (with possibly poorer renal function) and a free gun! After this weeks reduction in benefits, I can see closer harmonization of UK and Argentine relations.
They can’t peg to the dollar because their central bank doesn’t have any and the country has no access to international funds to buy them.
I think it’s because it works on simple psychology, easy emotive stuff, rather than thinking the average person actually engages with politics or understands how policies work.
Yep, look at Sunak and be trying to bring in his own 'Enabling Act' and the gullible idiots will be all behind him.
It still relies on people being fooled.
"Things are shit...They can't get any worse, maybe this guy has the answers? After all the politicians we've got now aren't making our lives any better are they, so I'm going to vote for him, give those clowns a taste of their own medicine.
Economy may work on the dollar, but it’s what sits in the central bank that matters for an economy to fix an exchange rate. Which variously ranges from 300 to 900 pesos to the $.
Most people don’t engage with politics until they’re struggling. Hence when they’re doing ok it’s easy for them to avoid uncomfortable facts, and when they’re struggling it’s easy to reach for “common sense” solutions.
WRT Argentina, I’m pretty sure that Argentina being a basket case economically is already priced in.
Thing is beyond use the Dollar not the Peso, and get rid of the central bank, there no other policies as far as I can see.
I give it a year tops before he's either chucked out or he starts on the road that leads to arresting political opponents and shutting down newspapers that always goes so well in the end.
Do we need to dust the Vulcans off?
Bizarrely he seems to be be quite the fan of old Maggie
When I read that I thought, 'well that's him done for' but clearly I was wrong.
The world is ever more complex and populism comes in offering simple solutions, 'just leave the EU, just get rid of the immigrants' 'just put me the charge' it's very appealing to those who just want politics to go away and leave them alone.
Sadly pushing back against it requires lots of knotty discussions and careful explaining, not something easily done in a 3-word slogan.
Are we just ignoring the years of Cristina De Kirchner's premiership and her tub thumping rhetoric? This is nothing new.
"We" (as in the UK) don't - they're not part of the UK, they're a British Overseas Territory, same as Bermuda etc. They have their own government, the UK is just (by agreement) responsible for defence & foreign relations. The people who live there want this arrangement to continue - funnily enough they are resistant to being forceably annexed by a tinpot government 😂Frankly when you look on a map it’s insane that we maintain a claim over them at all.
Argentina has no valid claim on the islands at all - geographically, historically or ethnically (I don't think there ever were any indigenous Islanders, and no-one living there at all until Europeans came along?)
Argentina is a strange one.
Just over a hundred years ago they were one of the richest countries in the World.
It boils my piss that, no matter where you go around the world, these right wing populist nut jobs can keep pulling the same shit, and people keep falling for it.
The reason that keeps happening is because the socially liberal centre-right/centre-left "grown ups" consistently refuse to do anything about the lack of economic fairness and justice that is baked in to neo-liberal market capitalism. When mainstream politicians fail to listen to and support the majority, the majority turns to non-mainstream politicians to do it instead.
Argentina has no valid claim on the islands at all – geographically, historically or ethnically
Their claims for the islands are at least as valid as the UK's, I mean if they felt the need for a laugh even the French could claim them, as they were the first to have a permanent settlement on the island (the 'Have you got a flag? provisions count here I think?)
The reality is that right up until the point that the Junta invaded, the UK was doing it's very best to 'encourage' the islanders to become part of Argentina, even going as far as to deny them the right to UK citizenship in '81, and sending down a minister (Gummer I want to say, but can't be sure without googling it) to try to help them along the way, which went down as well as you'd expect.
Bizarrely he seems to be be quite the fan of old Maggie
When I read that I thought, ‘well that’s him done for’ but clearly I was wrong.
Indeed, reminds me of elements of the far right in Hungary admiring Putin. Most odd, but there you are.
Mind you, the right wing in America admire Putin which has to be even more bizarre.
I think we are seeing a global rise in the far right/populism and I think things are just going to get very messy for many countries until a few home truths are exposed.
As far as going with the mighty Green Back, TiRed has a point, surely? The dollar might be in general public usage but surely the central bank will need vast reserves of it which it can't afford? Not to mention the paradox that he wants to get rid of the central bank too?!
The astonishing amount of far right, particularly pro palestine and hamas, activists on our streets is just the start.
WTF are you on about? Pro-Palestine* activists are not far right. The far right are squarely on the side of Israel.
*nice giveaway there BTW equating pro-Palestine with pro-Hamas. Thankfully the majority seem to disagree with your warped perspective.
Feels to me that there’s a worrying increasing global trend for voters to suspend morals, politics, environment if someone promises more money/less tax.
I know that’s always been the case, but seems the public are more and more willing to go with the extreme to achieve that.
I do know what you mean. But Argentina is an extreme place in many ways. I was in BsAs some while back and was pretty shocked, as a cossetted Brit. Actual favelas, walking distance from regular middle class areas. Everyone's house had bars on the ground floor windows. While I was there, two friends got carjacked, and my host's mum, who'd just had us round for a Sunday roast, was robbed at gunpoint. After dark the bus into town, going through certain areas, didn't even stop for red lights, let alone bus stops.
It made Britain - even Britain in 2023! - seem a paragon of stability, equality and wealth. So yeah, although I do react with dismay when I see some bonehead like this gaining power - especially somewhere like the USA, which really should know better - if you live walking distance from a violent shanty town, your mum's just been held up at gunpoint and you see no hope for your kids, I can see why people resort to desperate measures at the voting booth.
Still pretty worrying though.
Making selling your organs legal is certainly an interesting manifesto pledge!
I suspect that the reality will not match the hype and in a couple of years he'll be out, mired in similar corruption scandals to Trump, Bolsanaro etc
If things go really bad and he needs a distraction I could see them making a play for Los Malvinas as a last throw of the dice
they aren’t the first to adopt it anyway
You don't have to look far for similar stuff - IIRC Serbia & Montenegro both unilaterally adopted the Euro after their own currencies collapsed.
Just over a hundred years ago they were one of the richest countries in the World.
Was that before the repeated rounds of fascist government? 🤔
Have to agree. The astonishing amount of far right, particularly pro palestine and hamas, activists on our streets is just the start. Very worrying
Just to clarify, you aren't agreeing with anything I said in the post you quoted. I certainly don't agree with what you posted above.
Just to clarify, you aren’t agreeing with anything I said in the post you quoted. I certainly don’t agree with what you posted above.
The global rise in the far right (as you put it) is perfectly demonstrated by the antisemitic, racist, homophobic and gender discriminatory groups who march in Britain and across the western world under the guise of wanting peace. The reality is anything but. It’s astonishing how happy we seem to turn a blind eye to it.
The global rise in the far right (as you put it) is perfectly demonstrated by the antisemitic, racist, homophobic and gender discriminatory groups
No it really isn't. Maybe go and ask the guys who were fighting with the cops at the Cenotaph last weekend if they think pro-palestinian demonstrators are far right? And why are you equating pro-Palestinian with Islam? There were people of all religions on those marches, including lots of Christians and Jews. Your posts betray an extreme case of Islamophobia, and I'm not sure there's any place for it here, any more than there is a place for anti-semitism. I'm hoping the mods take action.
The global rise in the far right (as you put it) is perfectly demonstrated by the antisemitic, racist, homophobic and gender discriminatory groups who march in Britain and across the western world under the guise of wanting peace.
A handful of extremists marching amongst the largely peaceful marches does not equate to the far right marching across the west, bolsonaro, trump, braverman, yaxley-lennon, farage on the other hand...
And why are you equating pro-Palestinian with Islam?
Because Zionists are in a state of total panic, as they see the world recoil at the horrors of their crimes.
Nothing is too ridiculous for them to claim.
Which is all extremely well summed up here:
Think we have a new form of Godwins Law where all threads eventually become about Israel/Palestine.
We’ve all seen huge crowds of people chanting for the eradication of Jews. I don’t at all buy the ‘small minority’ argument.
If you have any doubt about Islamic views on gender, homosexuality, racism etc you should read some excerpts from the Quran.
Palestine is an Islamic country, 98% of Palestinians are Muslim.
I was referring to the need to launch an Islamophobic attack on a thread about Argentina.
Edit: With the most advanced military hardware in the world, used against a defenseless people, you are nevertheless in a state of panic because you realise that you are LOSING the hearts and minds of people across the globe.
If you have any doubt about Islamic views on gender, homosexuality, racism etc you should read some excerpts from the Quran.
your mind is going to blown when you realise that large chunks of the bible are word for word the same as the quran!
the brick testament is always good for that kind of bonkers stuff
https://thebrickbible.com/legacy/the_law/index.html
and extremists from all the abrhamic religions are down with that nonsense, whether its orthodox jews, mid west bible bashers or islamic extremists
if you want to get into a pissing contest over which religions are the most homophobic, mysoginist or bigotted go ahead, but probably best start a new thread
[MOD] - Thread closed as it’s just descended into Israel vs Palestine, which you’ve all been warned about.