Are you Bored enough to watch... Project DS911

I like your plan. I’m a Saab guy and I’ve seen AI renderings of a 900/911 mash up that made me go hmmmm. Pretty sure yours will look awesome

Subscribed. See if you can complete faster than the binky lads!

I have no idea what you're up to but hell yeah I'm going to watch this

I watched the first one with my son… he weirdly lost interest when he realised it wasn’t a toy car you were planning to modify 🤷🏽‍♂️

Following with interest. (However, a friendly word of advice from someone ex-telly: try not to fill the bits between words with err, argh or um, it’s varying degrees of annoying - I’m looking at you Adam Boulton! 😉)

Thanks Watty - I think what you really mean is 'learn how to edit videos' 🙂

Crazy idea but I've liked and subscribed😀

Yeah, sort of, but a bit more ‘think before you speak’. 😃

I think I'll wait a while then binge a few.

Vaguely related, I saw a Porsche 914 restomod yesterday, all £350000 of it, even in squirty poo brown it looked good.

[i]I saw a Porsche 914 restomod yesterday, all £350000 of it, even in squirty poo brown it looked good.[i/]

Well mine is being funded by my art sales (NicksArtStuff.com Commissions considered) so at £150 - £1,500 per painting my destructo-Mod might cost a bit less.

Will there be blood and gore later in the series

[i]Will there be blood and gore later in the series[/i] - Quite probably. I get the angle grinder out when I manage to find some scrap wings to use.

Liked, Subscribed, Rang the Bell

But the donor car is way too nice to be butchered!

On behalf of Porsche aficionados everywhere…

I'm still going to watch it though.

may i ask why you aren’t using a less nice porsche? you could sell the good one, buy a less good one and use the money leftover to find part of the work

Yes, I agree that the Porsche I bought is way too nice to butcher as I originally planned.

The original idea was to buy a scrappy 996 with about 100,000 miles on it for about £12K and use that. Unfortunately each one like that I saw had some fairly major bills due such as full engine rebuilds, collapsed suspension, flood damage etc. These were all £5K-£15K expenses that needed doing before I could start on the cosmetic work. I decided that it would be cheaper to buy a mechanically better car for perhaps £5K more than try and spend that money recovering a wreck.

This was one of the reasons for the 6 month delay to starting anything as I needed to find £5K and while I am sure it is nothing to the millionaires of this forum, it is a significant chunk of money for me, especially on a silly project. THis time was spent researching the different models in the 996 range and the occasional glance at the 997s. Both of these models suffer from bore score which requires an engine rebuild (£10K-£15K) but it is hit and miss as to which cars will get it and when. Some get it at 30,000 miles others at 100,000 but a lot of them get it.

One thing the research also revealed was that if you do have bore score, whilst there is nothing you can do other than a rebuild, it is not an immediate disaster. People have run there cars for 10-15,000 miles with bore score without issue, perhaps more. It will gradually get worse and you will use more oil but you can manage it.

As this is not a main car for me and 15,000 miles might well be 5 years I figured it might be worth a punt on a car with very early signs of bore score. I had planned to upgrade the engine within 5 years anyway so I had, sort of, budgeted for that expense. This one came up with carbon ceramic brakes, full leather pack, BOSE sound upgrade and just 51,000 miles. It is basically a £30K car that I got for £18K because of the engine. Speaking to the garage that had serviced it for the previous 8 years, they explained there was no issue at 48K miles and only the first signs at 51K miles picked up when the owner at the time wanted to sell it. He sold it for £25K to the guy who I bought it from 6 months later. The fear and misunderstanding of 'bore score' caused the panic sales and I believe got me a bargain.

So, after that long explanation of why the car was cheap enough to afford yet still looks good, did you actually listen to the video? I did explain that I had changed my original plans and the car was remaining stock from the tail up to the front wings. It was only the front wings, bonnet and bumper I now plan to change. The original parts will be removed and stored while I use some scrappers to make moulds for DS911.

OldTennisShoes - I agree it is too nice so it will be a reversable change
Doomanic - You betcha, I am really looking forward to the Simply Porsche meets at Beaulieu
LAT - There isn't a big enough price difference between a less good one and the one I got to fund the repairs, let alone any of the foolishness I have planned.

So your going to make front wings , source some suitable headlights (yellow of course) , some sort of chrome bumper , set of steel wheels with enough off set , big enough to deal with the calipers, then fit them without cutting the 911. .tough gig
So you need donor front wings and an angle grinder, big pack of fibre glass , a ton of filler to make a template that can be copied neatly.
And you really need to borrow a DS, there's one by the Thomas Lord rotting away in a garden btw.
Blimey . Good Luck

thanks for the explanation. makes a lot of sense. i’ve not watched the video yet, but i intend to. i’m intrigued to know what the plan is and how it’s going to be reversible.

i used to live next door to a guy who had a DS, in lymington as it happens. he may well be equally concerned about this project, but from the opposite side. that’s assuming that you are using an actual DS for the project. as i said, i’ve not watched the vid!

I do have a friend with a DS but I won't be slapping mlds of that as every panel is the wrong proportions. I will be sculpting the mold from foam myself. How hard can it be?

Sourcing suitable headlights and manufacturing a bumper will be 'fun' I agree, especially as I won't be able to use the standard DS ones. I might make my own from Porsche donor units to keep all the electronics compatible but cut out and put into my own headlamp bowls.

Wheels will stay stock 'lobster claw' Porsche, initially at least.
The molds will be part steel from the scrap panels and partly foam with a thin skin of glass over them for stiffness and then filler for smoothness. Glass fibre molds off of that and then the actual panels are all going to be carbon fibre, just for the challenge. I am currently making my first ever carbon fibre parts for the Porsche. This is just skinning the existing scruffy side skirts so subscribe as see when the video showing those land.

i’ve watched the videos. i’m not sure what to say, don’t do it/good luck!

are you familiar with car breeding on instagram? your project is a real life version.

A quick (maybe) question? What is “bore score” and why do the engines suffer from it at different intervals? 

I'll be interested to see how you get on. I like the idea, but I can imagine it being rather tougher than you expect. Fair play for giving it a shot.

I'd love to design an alternative boot-lid for my 6 series so hoping I can pick up some tips.

@WorldClassAccident The Wheeler Dealers did a Porsche with bore score and went to a non-franchised chap who did some secret squirrel work for the engine rebuild. May be worth looking at if you need something worked for a bargain.

Will watch part one after Mrs S relinquishes control of the remote control later.

Bore Score - The pistons scratch the hardened coating off the cylinder bores. Without the hardened coating the scratches get deeper, oil seeps round so you burn oil (the clue is a dirty left exhaust*), the pistons also can wobble as they are not tight in the bore so you get piston slap (the clue is the ticking noise)

Why it happens and why the time before it varies so much is the subject of a gazillion YouTube videos and Forum fights. Here is my theory based on nothing more than what I have read and tried to deduce myself. I shall try split the two sources.

Read : The M96/97 Crankcases use ‘Lokasil’ Cylinder liners.

Deduced : Porsche tried a new surface treatment on the cylinder bores that wasn't as good as what they had before and what came after the 996/997 generation. Once this lining was worn through the pistons were basically just rubbing against untreated metal that wears away quite quickly.

Read : Due to the layout of the open deck crankcase on 996/997 models, the cylinder banks are not rigidly supported. The oil spray and cooling flow faces the lower side of the cylinders which means the piston thrust on the right side cylinder runs slightly hotter than the left side. This results in the sixth cylinder becoming oval in shape when thermal and mechanical stresses are applied across the two banks of cylinders.

Deduced : Basically a bad design makes the hot spots and mis-shaped cylinder more likely.

Read : In addition, lubrication of the cylinders can also be compromised if the oil is changed at two year intervals. When fuel and moisture contaminate the oil (due to low mileage short journeys), the oil becomes diluted which results friction between the piston and the cylinder bore wall and can cause overheating.

Deduced : A lot or Porsches don't get used much and when they do they are for shorter journeys and often not allowed to warm up properly first.

Deduced / Noticed : The main radiators are at the front of the car and have the aircon radiator directly in front with about a 1cm gap. There is no way to clean these radiators and remove the trapped leaves without removing the wheels, wheel arch liners, car undertray parts and the front bumper to gain access.

Summary of my deductions and findings : Porsche cocked up the engine design and made it liable to hot spots and oval bores. To make matters worse, their new wonder coating (Lokisil) wasn't all that wonderful. This means there was a high risk of excess engine wear. Designing the cooling system so it is difficult to see it needs cleaning and more difficult still to clean means these engines sometimes don't get the best cooling. Add in the fact that Porsche drivers are not always fastidious about warming their engines thoroughly before revving them and often do short journeys and the issue becomes far more common. The more short journeys and high revs on a cold engine then the quicker this happens so a well used car may last 100,000 miles without issue whilst one only driven 2 miles to the golf course and back at max attack from cold will struggle to hit 30,000 miles.

Wheeler Dealers used Hartech. They are the main people in the UK for this work. Lots of other people do it but it costs much the same price and Hartech Rebuild on the paperwork adds more value than anyone else.

*Right cylinders get affected first so start smoking and vent out of the left exhaust

BRace yourselves guys and don't break YouTube in your rush to watch it.

Episode 2 has been released :

One thing I did learn is that my garage is too cold so there might be a short delay before the next episode while I add some insulation to the garage so like and subscribe now to make sure you don't miss the next release.

Prequel :

Episode 1 : https://youtu.be/Q_RImHd5mQI

I’m very intrigued to see how this turns out WCA, nice job on the sills. 👍

I've got to be honest....i don't understand what you're trying to do. Are you:
1. Trying to make a car that looks like a citreon DS but drives like a porsche?
2. Trying to make a porsche that looks like a DS from the front?

If 1, why don't you get a DS (a beautiful car IMHO) and stick a bigger engine in it?
If 2,...er why?!

Top tip.
Don't post YouTube video share URLs as links.

If you want them to appear in the thread, just paste them in the reply box as they are, which means the video box appears and can be played here instead of people having to click through to YouTube. 👍

👇

Thanks Kayak, I will try that next time. It is much better than the links.

[i]I’ve got to be honest….i don’t understand what you’re trying to do. Are you:
1. Trying to make a car that looks like a citreon DS but drives like a porsche?
2. Trying to make a porsche that looks like a DS from the front?[/i]

I think the answer is 2, your second option.

I did try to explain the point of this in the prequel but here we go.

Like with the rest of life, there is no point to it.

or the longer version

I really like the looks of the DS, have looked over many and have driven a couple. They were amazingly comfortable and ahead of their time - but that was over 60 years ago. I now have an E class mercedes which is more comfortable, smoother, more powerful and a lot more reliable. I don't have a family so don't need a saloon car and my wife isn't particularly into cars so is happy just to waft in the Merc.

This would mean that if I bought a real DS I would have a car that isn't great to drive, has a pre-WW2 engine and serves no real purpose beyond parking up at car shows which is not really all I want to do. Sticking a bigger engine in will just show up the other dynamic weaknesses.

If I use a Porsche as a base for a sort of DS look-alike then I still have a sports car to drive and I get something interesting to show.

Tavarish P1 has been intersting.

I love Binky (but am concerned they'll never finish it or Les Cargo before we all die)
Retro Power was a great distraction in lockdown, and their work is amazing.

Phil Morrison at Driftworks has an amazing car collection and is 'fastidious' with his standards for his builds.

Hackshop garage is two two likable aussies learning stuff.
Diffauto is drifting on the cheap with an old E30 and an LS

So, yes, I think I have room for another car channel.

No, I don't think I am bored enough, if I'm honest. I'd watch if you want to restore a DS or even get a broken 911 and restore that. But while obviously each to their own; butchering a 911 to make a replica DS - two cars that owe nothing to each other, don't look the same, don't have the same purpose, or share any commonality makes no sense to me. 

But, y'know, still probably cheaper than a coke habit, so if it makes you happy...

My Car channels on YouTube are M539 restorations, Binky, and Soup Classic. More than enough I think. 

I only really watch Mighty Car Mods these days, just because they're sound lads. I've sacked everything else off.

I basically can't afford to be into cars on any level and realised that watching other people have all the fun just makes me miserable.

The Wheeler Dealers did a Porsche with bore score and went to a non-franchised chap who did some secret squirrel work for the engine rebuild. May be worth looking at if you need something worked for a bargain.

Still cost a fortune despite Elvis doing most of the work himself.

[i]The Wheeler Dealers did a Porsche with bore score and went to a non-franchised chap who did some secret squirrel work for the engine rebuild. May be worth looking at if you need something worked for a bargain.

Still cost a fortune despite Elvis doing most of the work himself.[/i]

£10K + vat for the basic rebuild, £8.7+vat if you remove the and deliver the engine and they just do that bit.
£13.7+vat if you get the engine upped to 4.1 from 3.8

Nickc - I totally agree with your thinking and understand your dis-interest. If it appealed to everyone then someone else on the planet would have done it already.

Could you just post a picture of the model/vision so I can judge whether I like the idea?

Here yoiu go Cab. It was originally going to be something like a blend of these two Paintshop images

Now, I will probably only be doing the front for reasons explained in Episode 1

Forgot to add M539 and Soup to my list.
Both strangely soothing, I 'll watch yours later WCA.

That bike needs a good clean !

[i]That bike needs a good clean ![/i] - I was riding it on Wednesday so it needs a REALLY good clean now.

My dad had a DS some time in the 60s, but it was the older style before the faired in headlights that turned with the steering which I think as a far nicer looking car (stock pic)

AND has a similar front end to an early 911
Interesting eh?

I 'may' have spent some time looking at my friends round headlight version before deciding to go with the Pallas design.

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My other friends DS swayed me

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I went to a DS exhibition in Brussels Motor museum (i think that's where it was....definitely Belgium). It was stunning...so many incredible examples. I was there for hours 😂

Still cost a fortune despite Elvis doing most of the work himself.

It's a Porsche, big bills go with the marque.

[i]It’s a Porsche, big bills go with the marque.[/i]

Plus labour charges. Pretty much every job instruction sheet in the workshop manual PDF I got starts with "Drop the engine and Transmission for access."

Change the water pump? "Drop the engine and Transmission for access."
Change the coolant sensor? "Drop the engine and Transmission for access."
Empty the ashtray? "Drop the engine and Transmission for access."

Okay I may have made that last one up but to 'Clear debris from the two front radiators" - a job that should be done at every service - is something liker Remove front wheels. Remove wheel arch liners, Remove headlights, Remove side repeaters, Remove front bumper, Remove air conditioning radiators, brush debris and leaves from the radiator, refit air conditioning radiators, refit front bumper, refit side repeaters, refit headlights, refit wheel arch lines, refit wheels"

Was it Baz Hart? Of Hartec? I picked up the shell of my 951 from there.
Bore score isn’t new. The Alusil engines suffer too.

Overly rich running can wash away the oil film also, the issues already mentioned. Baz was going to machine me some pistons years ago but all the money was in rear engined stuff.
He talked about reversing coolant flow to help. It was 2009 so a bit fuzzy.

Love the project!

I was dealing with Grant. He was refreshingly honest and said £10K + VAT is for the engine rebuild but expect the price to creep as bolts seize, bits are too far gone to reuse and stuff might as well get fixed while the engine is out.

I wondered what sort of stuff so he sent me a list of some of the more usual little bits they might replace
All approximate prices + VAT and assuming nothing related snaps:

New oil cooler. £200

New bank 1 scavenge pump. £130

New tandem pump & pipe. £410

New water pump. £420

New crank position sensor. £200

New evap valve. £300

New air filter. £25

New exhaust clamps. £110

2 New small exhaust brackets. £38

New exhaust sections (prices vary).

New gear box plug socket with seal. £100

New oil/air separator. £210

3 New vent lines. £265

2 New oil catch tanks. £110

6 New ignition coils. £240

2 New ignition coil covers. £60

Belt. £25

3 New belt rollers. £170

New oil pressure switch. £65

New starter motor wiring harness section. £120

New coolant tank. £110

2 New main coolant feed & return pipes at either side of engine along with associated hoses. £570

2 New engine mounts. £420

New gearbox mount. £170

New cardan shaft rubber. £100

4 New sections of brake pipe at the rear of the car. £560

Obviously not all the above would apply

It gets a bit closer to the next episode. I have just hit buiy on these and now need to get them sent down from Derby.

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Well they have arrived.
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Now I just need to cut some off, add some foam and shape it to look like this.
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And try to work out how to make the headlight pod of course. Next video should come as soon as I get a chance to make some progress but I am a bit busy with art commissions, work and Christmas preparations so like and subscribe to get an notification when it arrives.

This is the original idea : https://youtu.be/PlGSR6w2_hI

Came across this on YT while searching for your channel. Guessing you have seen it before?

Yeah, they took the wrong end of each car and then actually built it! Makes my idea almost seem sensible!

Brace yourself for about 7 minutes of ecstasy as the next episode is loading ready for your viewing pleasure :

Oh, just spotted it will take approx 36 minutes to load.

Relax, have a cup of tea and rush back in about half an hour.

Fantastic, well done.

Jump to 3 minutes if you want to see the angle grinder 'incident'

?

4 doors and the front of the bonnet is too bulbous for my liking.

The headlights turned up today so the sculpting of the bonnets and wings has been paused while I create the headlight pods. I feel that the headlights are defining features and also need to actually point in the right direction so I am going to do those and then continue the wings to match. You will see it all in the next exciting episode I am sure.

.

Latest drop :

If you were one of the 3 who watched it before I announced it on there then I have re-uploaded witht he audio fixed. Clipchamp seems to struggle with sound and subtitles.

It still seems to have sound issues but only for the clip where subtitle are present. Weird, it doesn't do that when played in Clipchamp.

I found it most entertaining.

I'm along for the series. I've know you've struggled with it, but I couldn't help thinking the light pod moulds weren't identical when you held them up to camera.

I will go with 'near identical' for now. They are close enough the let me shape the front wings and bonnet lines. More importantly they have an accurate length front to back to allow me to work out how far back they can be and still allow room for the underlying car. I managed to cut 18cm out of the plug from in front of the wheel arch this evening which makes a big improvement in the overall look, even if I do virtually start from scratch again with the wings and bonnet.

Plenty more before I get that lot onto this.
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I really should start with the foam plug attached to the car but I want to keep using the car while I am working on the project. This makes it slightly slower with a bit of rework but lets me enjoy the car for the moment while it is too cold to make too much progress outside or lay up much composite.

You would be really amazed at how much work has gone into this project between the end of Part 4 video.

and then current situation which is this.

Basically I realised that the MDF and doam buck I made in Part 3 needed to have the headlights made in Part 4 integrated and to do that I needed to know where on the car EXACTLY the headlights would go. This meant stripping the car down, which I originally wanted to avoid, and scrapping the whole idea of a moulding plug on the frame in the garage.

So I stripped the car and started to fit the scrap wings from the garage buck but needed various brackets to do this. I could have easily knocked these up in CF or glass fibre apart from the fact the temperature was hovering around zero. I used a few sheets of MDF instead as a temporary solution. This worked fine until we got hit by the storm which ripped the car cover open and soaked the MDF which simply collapsed, ruining everything I had done up to that point.

I am not sure what out of the hours of video I will actually use for the next episode as most of it is now irrelevant. Anyway, we have headlights mounted in the approximate moulds resting in approximately correct position.

I need to make a secure mounting platform to be able to bolts them in place.
I need to sort out some resistors to let the LEDs work without triggering CAN Bus errors,
I need to cut a new wiring from the original Porsche (proprietary?) connector to split to two new H4 LED connectors with indicators and DLR (possibly not fitted to my car) as required.
I need to build another pair of frames to hold the foam to shape the wings.
I need to replace all the wooden brackets with CF once it warms
I need to make a CF copy of the original bonnet so I can make a new bonnet without ruining my good one.
....

Well having finally finished editing the latest release of this thrilling series you will be excited to know that none of the stuff above has been done but you will have to waste 7 minutes watching this to understand the enormity of my progress.

Sneak preview of the start of the next episode. I know I left the episode above quite abruptly but I wasn't expecting to get any time on the project so showed the progress I had made. I then got a couple more hours and finished the rough cut of the wing tops.

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Have you ever wondered about making stuff out of Carbon Fibre?

This video shows how badly it can go wrong if you are an idiot but also how perseverance pays off in the end. It is a true emotional roller coaster of an episode that puts the heartache and destruction of the storm damage well and truly in the past.

Well done, small round of applause 🙂

[i]Well done, small round of applause 🙂[/i]

Very small I should imagine 😉

Not suggesting that what you're endeavouring to do isn't daft enough but it seems to me the engine, axel and wheel counts are all rather modest. What about a second engine, in fact make both engines V8s. Then three more axles, and an extra wheel somewhere in the middle for good luck.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfpp4gOERQU

Mental...the longest 2-seater in the world...possibly!

What is wonderful is that is only one of the wonderful DS 'evolutions' among many such bizarre creations. I agree, mine is pretty tame in such company.

In this exciting episode we actually make visible progress as I style the first front wing :

I am a little excited about progress today so here is a sneak preview from the next episode.
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Blimey, what a difference a week makes!!

Only 4 minutes but packed with action - fire (almost) floods, and plagued by bad editing but the bonus feature at the end is actually okay.

If you do bother watching it, please let me know what you like/dislike. DO I keep them the same, do I show more detail for specific stages, are the videos too long / short when I try to keep them at 6 - 8 minutes.

Can proper video people please refrain from telling me how to shoot video, edit video, do voice overs. Or at least keep their comments helpful. I am currently building a car, 2 bike parks, a portfolio of art for the Spring sales, holding down a full time job and keeping my wife and family happy. There is a limit to my time and the skills I can learn. 🙂

I have been watching them all and enjoy your content and style. Keep em coming

Thanks. My wife thinks it is a bit sweary some times