[Closed] Are you a believer?

Well I had bacon, sausage and back pudding for breakfast, oh and some embryonic chickens, then chicken burgers for lunch and dead cow for tea, so I'm saying, no I'm not a believer of veganism in any form.

His beliefs affect much of his everyday life. He will, for instance, walk rather than take a bus to avoid accidental crashes with insects or birds.

If this forum had smilies I’d be hitting the facepalm repeatedly.

It's interesting to see where this goes. There must be more to this story than we know so far. I simply don't believe the League against gruel sport would have knowingly invested pension funds in a firm that does animal testing. I suspect it was more that their due diligence of the firm that was supplying their pension and what was being invested in was not great. The Veganism is a red herring.

Will be interesting to hear what he did that actually got him sacked.

I am now, having seen her face. Undoubtedly.

Jedi ?

If this forum had smilies I’d be hitting the facepalm repeatedly

Allow me...

🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

Will be interesting to hear what he did that actually got him sacked.

For leaking the info about the pension scheme (after he told the bosses, and they did nothing) I think?

As above, his veganism had nothing, directly, to do with his sacking, but because he couldn’t help telling everyone he was vegan 😉, it got dragged into into it, and this is the happy (for him) outcome

I simply don’t believe the League against gruel sport would have knowingly invested pension funds in a firm that does animal testing

Why not? Animal testing is not the same as hunting. It’s also part of my day job. The Vegetarian Society recommends taking whatever medicine is necessary, even when there are no non-animal products. I presume vegans do not take gelatine capsules in any form?

But there is a lot more to this case. The allegation is he was deliberately not passing information based on his beliefs and not what was in the interests of the pension fund.

the League against gruel sport

Presumably they want to do away with this kind of thing...

Why not?

Because an ethical Venn diagram would have the interest groups concerned about both as a heavy cross over. It would irk too many supporters and paid employees including I would imagine those involved in the comps and bens implementation. My money is on it being an oversight rather than a deliberate act. I have not got a clue what industries are invested in with my pension funds. Imagine I might not be impressed if I found out but if it turns out it is a weapons manufacturer that would be down to my ignorance rather than a deliberate act to enhance my future to the detriment of my morals.

When I read the criteria for it to be a belief system I thought it ticked all the boxes and it's a lot more rational than most other belief systems. Still being worried about bugs on a windscreen isn't a sustainable belief system, he's lucky to live in a society that allows people with such impractical beliefs to continue to flourish.

Still doesn't seem to have any bearing on his sacking though which on the face of it could be construed as gross misconduct.

walk rather than take a bus to avoid accidental crashes with insects

Does he ever step on an ant?

His beliefs affect much of his everyday life. He will, for instance, walk rather than take a bus to avoid accidental crashes with insects or birds.

He must have to walk very, very slowly, scrutinising every foot of path in front of him, in case he steps on any insect, arachnid, crustacean, or arthropod that happens to be sharing his space. And I guess he has to wear goggles in case an insect gets into his eye, and dies as a result.
Cycling must be out as well, for the same reason as driving or using public transport.
Frankly, he’s an obsessive with a hopelessly unrealistic way of living; a hermetically sealed box breathing filtered air and water would be an ideal place for him.

Does he ever step on an ant?

Imagine the anguish he must suffer if he steps on a loose paving slab. Was/wasn’t there a bug under there?

How does he cope if wasps set up home in his loft?

How does he cope if wasps set up home in his loft?

probably like most other people, never notice they are there. I do love these threads on STW it brings out the forumites inner Piers Morgan for all to see. 🙂

I am now, having seen her face. Undoubtedly.

Indeed, not a trace of doubt in my mind.

probably like most other people, never notice they are there. I do love these threads on STW it brings out the forumites inner Piers Morgan for all to see. 🙂

Yep, I was definitely talking about the benign, non problematic types of wasps nest. I’m also deadly serious, totally not making a joke here at all.

Doesn't use many cleaning products then. What if he, or a loved one, needs an operation?

I’m also deadly serious

easy tiger we're shaking in our boots here, the inner Piers is strong in this dick

Yep, I was definitely talking about the benign, non problematic types of wasps nest.

wasp are only problematic at the end of the nest cycle, when the nest is dead and finished. Before that they are an aphid killer supreme and to be encouraged.

Because an ethical Venn diagram would have the interest groups concerned about both as a heavy cross over.

I imagine vegans would be a very small subset. I can’t imagine there are many pro-hunting vegans. But there are many many anti-hunting omnivores and vegetarians.

Nick Knowles summed it up perfectly in an interview: “I’m a vegan, but I’m not a tawt about it”. One tries to be true to ones ethics, but accepts that there will always be the occasional compromise. For him it was going round to a friend who’d cooked especially and forgotten he didn’t eat meat.

It would be a very strict vegan who turned down anti-cancer monoclonal antibodies. (They are all made in animal cells in a bioreactor), and of course will have historically been tested on animals. But they are, in essence, an animal cell-based product.

26 pages, 4 banz, 51.8% bigoted viewpoints and some one posting a bowl of kale & nut roast soup.

Who knew the wasp protection league had such an angry & humourless enforcement officer on STW?

I was going to comment on me not being able to imagine someone I’d like to go out for dinner with less, but looks like the ethical vegan is now in second place.

Who knew the wasp protection league had such an angry & humourless enforcement officer on STW?

who's angry ? piers morgan is angry.

get above them man!

You are calling people dicks, for making jokes, on the internet. Maybe time for a lie down?

I imagine vegans would be a very small subset.

You have the wrong end of the stick. This is nothing to do with vegans. I mean the subsets of those anti cruel sports and those anti animal testing will have a heavy crossover regardless of if they are vegan or not.

Of course there is then a huge debate between what is necessary animal testing, what is convenient/ economically motivated and what is unnecessary. I have not research far enough to know what the League against cruel sports were putting their money into.

Doesn’t use many cleaning products then. What if he, or a loved one, needs an operation?

Why would you expect him to be any less devout than say;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science

Nice definition from the vegan society

“Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose”

They emphasis possible and practical. Under the current legal framework, it’s not possible to avoid animal testing for some products (e.g. new drugs). I think our hero seems to be over-extending the belief structure still further. My son’s girlfriend is from a Jain family. They have similar beliefs. But she eats cheese and wears leather but does not and never has eaten meat.

Just a thought, he has had ethical veganism recognised but does that affect his dismissal case? I would guess not.

some one posting a bowl of kale & nut roast soup

What if I want to send it by carrier pigeon instead, is that allowed?

if it's a belief structure, then it just confirms to me that it is just like all other ones out there...

a load of bunkum and falsehoods spouted out by control freaks who wish to control and boss around the population with restrictive practices, and use mind controlling tactics to carry out that dictatorship

a load of bunkum and falsehoods spouted out by control freaks who wish to control and boss around the population with restrictive practices, and use mind controlling tactics to carry out that dictatorship

Exactly how I feel about 29ers and LLS geometry...

I don't know any extreme vegans to ask, but why is eating plants considered ok, when such extreme views on animal life exist? Plants are massively complex and evolved structures and have demonstrated sentience, so why does there not seem to be a group of individuals who would seek not to eat them (apart from an inevitable quick death)?

I genuinely don't know how some people draw a moral line in the sand.

I do sometimes feel a little bad about all the snails popping under my tyres when I commute offroad at certain times of the year.

andytherocketeer
...a load of bunkum and falsehoods spouted out by control freaks who wish to control and boss around the population with restrictive practices, and use mind controlling tactics to carry out that dictatorship

Sounds like the same sort of mob who got us clean air, clean water, restricted smoking in enclosed areas, made us wear seatbelts and helmets, and forced the car industry to give us safer cars.

Villains! 🙂

I don’t know any extreme vegans to ask

The Vegan society includes a clue in the definition given upthread.

“Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose”

So an ‘extreme vegan’ would be considered extreme (compared to average/cross-section of vegans) in personally seeking to exclude, as far as possible...animals. ie avoiding using buses because of all the extra insect deaths compared to walking or cycling.

No mention of plants, presumably because plants are 1. Not animals and 2. Necessary for living.

MrPottatoHead
...I genuinely don’t know how some people draw a moral line in the sand.

A good place to start is: has it got a face? 🙂

I genuinely don’t know how some people draw a moral line in the sand.

draw a line in the sand, then decide if you are on the same side as piers morgan ? if so you are on the wrong side and are morally bankrupt.

Not liking wasps = Moral bankruptcy?

Have you recently been sacked for gross misconduct?

hello piers

Is life really that black and white for you? If you aren’t on one extreme, you are, by default, the other extreme?

Or is it because I picked on wasps? Would you be spouting the same vitriol if I’d asked how he (you?) would deal with a bedbug infestation?

I’m struggling to understand why he thinks being vegan has anything to do with his dismissal. It really hasn’t. They don’t have a problem with him being vegan, they probably (guessing here but it seems reasonable) don’t have a problem with him asking about and questioning what investments they make.
However it sounds like he made a complete chunk of himself and went way beyond what is reasonable and what he did constituted gross misconduct.
GM is normally pretty cut and dried eg violence, doing things which intentionally damage company property, bringing company into disrepute, those sorts of things.
The LACS seem pretty relaxed about it and I can see why as his veganism is a complete red herring.

keep it up piers, your doing a grand job

Whereas you’re repeating the same boring joke, over and over. Bet you’re dead pleased with yourself.

This case seems especially odd, as Maya Forstater lost her job last month for refusing to believe that people can change from one sex to the other:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50858919

Bet you’re dead pleased with yourself.

not seeing this when i look in the mirror

why wouldn't i be ?

No wonder you don’t see it, you’re on the opposite side of the same coin.

You know what, it’s been fun but I’m bored now. What’s that saying? ‘Never try to argue or reason with idiots. They bring you down to their level, then beat you with experience.’

But tom, calling someone Piers Morgan over and over again is the height of sophisticated argument and intellectual debate.
I think you're probably just not clever enough to understand it.

keep it up piers, your doing a grand job

Still working your way through the stock of Christmas and New Year booze, then; one clear symptom of a drunk is their habit of repeating the same thing over and over again, a habit I’m seeing here.
Time to go to bed, son, sleep it off.

his veganism is a complete red herring

Is it just beefed up vegetarianism?

This guy knows what he's doing. He has committed gross misconduct and knows it.

So he's taking the opportunity to gain some benefit for his cause by asking the court to establish, as a precursor to the main question (of his conduct), whether being a vegan brings rights as a belief system. That has been confirmed.

He cares not for the rest of the trial I'd guess.

In short, it's quite a smart way of getting a principle established in law.

Plants are massively complex and evolved structures and have demonstrated sentience, so why does there not seem to be a group of individuals who would seek not to eat them

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov5Jgw_Nwx4