[Closed] Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the car as status symbol?

Heated steering wheel is where its at now...

Until a couple of years ago I had a 10 year old Boxster that cost me the right side of £10k. Driving anywhere was a hugely enjoyable experience and it cost me half the price of a new basic Golf. Why wouldn't you?

And that is exactly the point isn't it, your 10 yr old Boxster is not a status symbol car, it's an 'I Like cars and driving' car, my thoguhts were more about people who are not into cars at all, but have brand new (formerly) premium brand cars on the drive and change every 2-3 years because of the status they think it infers.

If I had 20 k to blow on cars I would blow it on older nice/fun car and possibly a cheapy utility car, I wouldn't be buy the status symbol new saloon etc, where as if I had hundreds of K I think I'd just buy whatever I liked the look of, I dont think other peoples feelings would come into my decision making process at all either way, but for a lot of people it does seemt o matter.

It's a bizarre paradox isn't it, the middle of the road boring family car costing more and thus being used as a 'look at me I have a [i]new [/i]car', where as the cheaper but older car is seen as old and less good*

I pay a lot more attention to classics, performance and properly modified interesting cars with character than I do to luxury barges.
The former reveals normally what the owner thinks and is interested in, the latter normally reveals what the owner wants [i]others [/i] to think about them.

*obviously all of my comments are reflective of where I live and the things I see, it may be different in other areas, but around here it seems that if you're an up and coming young go-getter trying to show off your success then you do it with an expensive new mid range car (often on lease) rather than a nicely run in older but nicer/more fun car.

If you are already have wads of cash then you're more likely to be seen in an older car and not shouting about your money, or on the flip side have some outrageous supercar or luxury GT car that you bought because you like it rather than for what other people may think of it.

Heated steering wheel is where its at now...

What does it matter, you cant take the house with you when you're dead any more than a car?

A quick beemer on the motorway is just a c-max with less noise and a nicer interior.

But those things are quite high up my priority list. A quiet drive a huge difference to me on long trips

*not that I see my house as an investment, it's my home.

footflaps - Member
There is also, increasingly, a feeling that 'prestige' motors can be rather vulgar and I know a good many people who also wish to hide their wealth for various reasons.
Working across the road from a Bentley Dealership, I'd say sadly not....

Remember, not all of the people driving cars out of showrooms are 'buying' them and fewer still can actually afford them. Just because the smarmy man in the nice suit says you can, does not mean you should.

When America sneezes, we have a habit of catching a cold: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-20/car-repos-soar-70-auto-subprime-bubble-pops-its-contained-promises-fed

Like I said I don't get the cheap house expensive car bit. We all have our own priorities but don't most of us spend more time in our homes than in our motor? Plus houses are (generally) sound investments* whereas new cars are a money pit.

But if you are the hypothetical northerner with your £100k house, mortgage paid off by 30 and a disposable income, no expen sive hobbies, and no need for a bigger house, why wouldn't you buy/lease a nice new car?

apples/oranges? is that not down to the beemer likely being a saloon? I though saloons were naturally quieter than hatchback/mpv/other designs that maximise the available space, or is it only premium german cars that have quiet interiors?

I think you're getting way too far into the detail of a hypothetical example. If you were faced with a decision between doing a long motorway journey in a brand new 5 series or a 10 year old Focus saloon, with no other factors to consider other than which car would you rather spend the next 5 hours in, would anyone chose the Focus? Not nececeraly a status thing, but if I had some spare cash and was doing the miles I was a couple of years ago I'd have a nice big mile munching 5 series. And inverse-snobs be damned.

But surely that would negate the use of driving gloves, thus greatly reducing a gentleman's in car wardrobe options. No use having a nice motor if you've no style

[img] [/img]

I don't understand why you all seem to think that other's perception of a car is the main factor? The owner's perception is the most important factor. People buy or lease new cars mostly because they are lovely and shiny and new and nice things for people to own and drive themselves. I really don't think visible status symbols are at the front of people's minds. New cars are *intrinsically* nice.

thisisnotaspoon - Member
I think you're getting way too far into the detail of a hypothetical example. If you were faced with a decision between doing a long motorway journey in a brand new 5 series or a 10 year old Focus saloon, with no other factors to consider other than which car would you rather spend the next 5 hours in, would anyone chose the Focus? Not nececeraly a status thing, but if I had some spare cash and was doing the miles I was a couple of years ago I'd have a nice big mile munching 5 series. And inverse-snobs be damned.

The owner's perception is the most important factor.....New cars are *intrinsically* nice.

agreed, but

I really don't think visible status symbols are at the front of people's minds

I disagree, I've heard far too many people making comments about particular brands/spec levels and how they'd never buy an X, for a lot of people it is a big factor, maybe not for you or me, but for a lot of people it is.

Witness the de-badged base-spec German status wagon vs fully kitted out Korean alternative, granted there's possibly some cross-over points on quality etc you could discuss or argue about but if you were basing your decisions purely on specs alone then the brand would be irrelevant. And brand is all about image, not just to the owner but also how they think it portrays them to others.

And there's the curious VAG group thing, VW/Seat/Audi/Skoda, a lot of shared technology, but pitched at different markets and aspirations...

My Parents have just bought a new car and the discussions they had were quite interesting to listen in to, my mum wanted a 3 series because 'I've always wanted one', my Dad's take on it was 'I don't want to be seen in a BMW, too posh!'

Probably a bit of an outdated view point i'll admit, but it illustrates the point quite well.

thisisnotaspoon - Member
I think you're getting way too far into the detail of a hypothetical example. If you were faced with a decision between doing a long motorway journey in a brand new 5 series or a 10 year old Focus saloon, with no other factors to consider other than which car would you rather spend the next 5 hours in, would anyone chose the Focus? Not nececeraly a status thing, but if I had some spare cash and was doing the miles I was a couple of years ago I'd have a nice big mile munching 5 series. And inverse-snobs be damned.
^This. Where high and/or work-related mileage is involved, a decent motor brings benefits which warrant the spend; reliability, refinement, pace, economy.

I disagree, I've heard far too many people making comments about particular brands/spec levels and how they'd never buy an X, for a lot of people it is a big factor, maybe not for you or me, but for a lot of people it is.

I'd say for most people brand snobbery is a factor.

Would it be true that a lot of people that think it is pathetic, or that a man is 'making up for having a small penis' (I mean really?! do you gimps think people actually do that?) by having a nice car cant actually afford one?

(I don't own a posh / status symbol car, its worth about 3k, would I like a nice one? - absolutely, though it is not a life priority)

Is a 40k VW Transporter not a status symbol too? - Plenty of the guys at races and trail centres with them....

It is possible for car ownership to be fun you know, even non-classics.

Maybe this should get onto the 'Enduro' bike being a status symbol - that new SC Nomad worth 7k many people dribble their way around trail centres on.

I think the status thing is alive and well at all levels, from people thinking people only cycle because they can't afford cars to spanky looking huge Mercs outside pretty ordinary houses in crappy parts of town.
But I reckon cars are just a very obvious expression of something that is pretty much ubiquitous- TVs, phones, bikes, clothes, holidays, etc. etc.

I think (hope!) it could change in the right circumstances though- maybe more people looking at their cars, thinking about what it's actually costing them, and wondering whether it's worth it.

[i]Rachel Weinberger, Director of Research and Policy Strategy,
Nelson\Nygaard Consulting Associates, [b]New York[/b].
[/i]

[yawn]
Oh, world city dwelling, metro/underground using ubanites, pass time by guessing the precise date of the demise of the car. They don't need a car, so nobody else does.
[/yawn]
🙄

For me, with expensive hobbies like mountain biking and snowboarding I really don't see the point in wasting money on a nice car. But my Dad has the spare cash to buy decent, car so takes great joy in owning a Mercedes.

Maybe it's just because of the places I spend my time, but it looks like 'lifestyle vehicles' are the new status cars. Look at the amount of T5 Transporters, or Defenders that have never seen a spec of dirt.

And there's the curious VAG group thing, VW/Seat/Audi/Skoda, a lot of shared technology, but pitched at different markets and aspirations...

There are real differences between those brands though. Kit, refinement, engines and setup.

The examples you quote are about personal brand identification, which I think is a little different to a status symbolism. The latter would imply we want to show people how rich we are, but really we want to show WHO we are*. That could be a no nonsense practical person, an eco hipster or a flash executive.

* or want to be

I'd say for most people brand snobbery is a factor.

and

The examples you quote are about personal brand identification, which I think is a little different to a status symbolism

Different yes, but very much intrinsically linked, as some brands are very much built on the premise of being premium and/or expense.

If two brands produced items of identical function and refinement, but one cost twice as much as the other, then anyone choosing to buy the more expensive one would be doing it purely as a show of wealth.

When the differences are nuanced, subtle, and intrinsically woven into the ethos of the brand it is harder to define, but the status symbol aspect is very much alive in the way people have preferences for particular brands.

With the the VAG group example I may not have explained myself clearly, I understand that there are quantifiable differences between them in spec, trim levels, set up etc, I wasn't trying to suggest that they are all actually the same apart from the badge, but that they are pitched at different markets despite there being a lot of crossover and shared tech.

It is not uncommon for people to buy a basic spec new Audi in preference to, for example, a higher spec'd VW or even a higher spec'd 1-2 year old version of the same car . This is not just about the quantifiable material differences, but about the perception of the brand not just to the buyer but to other people as well, and often these people are not the ones that care for or understand those material differences to any great degree, but what they do understand is that they think* Jon next door will think more higly of them for having a new Audi than an old VW (or even the older Audi), at which point is it become more about status than any actual allegiance with the brand.

*It does not occur to them that in fact Jon may not give a toss, or that Jon may actually thinks that his 2 year old but higher spec model is better, they think "shiny new audi = success!"

It's a complicated topic to discuss for sure, as there are so many factors involved, not least of which your own personal biases and thoughts, but I think that the car as a status symbol is still very much alive, and in todays culture has moved on from the basic status of 'I can afford a car' to the current situation where a lot of households have multiple cars and it becomes more about [i]which car[/i] you have, for some that is a reflection of themselves, for some it's about the image they try to portray to others.

people are weird about cars. I sold a 5yo T5 for 12k bought a 12yo 5 series for less than £2k. Everyone thinks it's a massive step up?!

people are weird about cars.

good summary 🙂

If two brands produced items of identical function and refinement, but one cost twice as much as the other, then anyone choosing to buy the more expensive one would be doing it purely as a show of wealth

Or a mistaken belief that the more expensive one is actually better. I think this is very common.

true, I should have clarified that theoretical situation with 'where it is openly known they are identical' 😉

But if you are the hypothetical northerner with your £100k house,, mortgage paid off by 30 and a disposable income, no expen sive hobbies, and no need for a bigger house, why wouldn't you buy/lease a nice new car?

I think you're getting way too far into the detail of a hypothetical example

I own a Dacia.

Maybe it's just because of the places I spend my time, but it looks like 'lifestyle vehicles' are the new status cars. Look at the amount of T5 Transporters, or Defenders that have never seen a spec of dirt.

It's the same with bikes though, people try to buy into a lifestyle rather than actually change there life to suit a particular lifestyle.

Anyway, driving is shit. Even if I drove to work in a Porsche/Ferrari or what ever, I'd still only average 20mph, and still take me longer to drive than cycle.

🙂

[i] Edukator - Troll
I own a Dacia[/i]

😀

but I think hypothetical is the relevant word, I doubt there's too many of them

I dunno, I'm in our office in Reading at the moment, average wage is probably between average and 2x the local average, the average car is a 2nd hand 3-8 year old Mondeo/Vectra/Octavia kinda thing. My 8 year old battered C-max for example doesn't stand out. Our Middlesborough office car park (similar wages, but a lot higher relative to the local average and house prices) my C-max was probably in the bottom 10% even 3 years ago when it was still a current model and not so battle scarred. The average car in that office is probably an Audi A4/3 series.

My conclusion is that even a load of engineers in badly fitting suits who design purely functional bits of kit every day, when given some spare cash at the end of a month, like a nice car.

I'm not challangeing the notion that some people buy them as status symbols, but I don't think that's the reason for the majority.

People buy a nice car for many reasons. I used to do all my own mechanics when I had access to a workshop and space to leave a car in bits. On moving to average rental property in a cheaper area I noticed the average car value was higher, but it makes sense. Cheaper house means more to spend on a car and also less option to run a banger yourself as easily.

You wouldn't want to be doing DIY mechanics if parking outside your house isn't an option. For me I spent more on a car as I wasn't prepared to send the bangers I had been running to a garage for repairs. It made more sense to get a nicer car so an average repair bill isn't 1/5th the value of the car.

I'm sure many people spend more on a car for similar reason. Why pay big bills of running any car on something that's grim, boring and cheap? It's nothing to do with Status symbol for most average people. Hence 'value' brands like VW having such a strong following.

But those things are quite high up my priority list. A quiet drive a huge difference to me on long trips.

Sure, but we're hardly talking a night and day difference. Family hatches are remarkably refined these days.

You can have my 11 yr old 1.7DI Combo when you prize it from my cold dead hands

Hence 'value' brands like VW having such a strong following.

Back in the day (late 80s) VW were a premium brand and the standard other cars were seen as needing to work towards. Ford Escort was the best-selling car. Vauxhall Astra, Renault 11, Peugot 309 family cars etc were what most people had.

That VW is now seen a 'value' brand tells you how much 'status inflation' we've had since then...

Why pay big bills of running any car on something that's grim, boring and cheap?

Because the bills are smaller. Servicing cheap cars costs less. Check out the five-year, all-in service contracts offered by Renault/Nissan/Dacia.

I'm surprised you consider VW good value. The nearest VW to the Dacia in volume and performance cost 5000e more, more to service and the service pack wasn't as comprehensive. In fact the VW offered objectively the worst value for money of any of the cars we looked at over the first five years and wasn't even "nice" inside.

It's nothing to do with Status symbol for most average people. Hence 'value' brands like VW having such a strong following.

As above, that's a very telling thing isn't it, that VW is now seen as a value brand, and to a lot of people a new VW on the drive is more of a statement than an older premium brand.

We've got a strange mixed thing going on where new = flashy, even if on an apparently 'value brand' as you put it.

When cars were not as prolific having [i]a car [/i]was a status symbol, now its having [i]a new car[/i] or [i]a posh car[/i].

If you bought a premium brand in the past you kept it for a while, where as now those historically premium german brands are now the normal everyday cars that get replaced a lot sooner.

You still have the graduation in perceived premium brands muddying the waters but it's still a status symbol for a lot of people.

We can debate the fringe cases and exceptions that prove the rule all day though 🙂

Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the car as status symbol?

are we balls.

if anything, it's going to get worse.

'kids' today are increasingly priced out of car ownership, mostly through high insurance. This will only make them more proud of / attached to their vehicle when they can eventually afford it.

and remember, these people will never be able to afford a house they actually like, they'll be renting shabby shoe-boxes for life. Their car will be the only 'thing' in their life that they've aspired to own, and have eventually acquired. Just you try and take it away from them.

That VW is now seen a 'value' brand tells you how much 'status inflation' we've had since then...

That's a very interesting viewpoint. My perception of VW is the complete opposite, with their status getting more and more premium all the time. I'd argue that VW are one of few brands who are almost "classless" and would be at home on the drive of a Premiership footballer or Russian Oligarch as they would be parked outside the working class terraces of any inner city.

My perception of VW is the complete opposite, with their status getting more and more premium all the time.

Ok but have you seen a new Golf? Interior quality looks pretty upmarket. When I was shopping, I tried Honda and Ford, and the VW interior looked much more upmarket to me and these were 06-08 models. So VW could be considered premium amongst the 'everyday' brands.

Ok but have you seen a new Golf? Interior quality looks pretty upmarket. When I was shopping, I tried Honda and Ford, and the VW interior looked much more upmarket to me and these were 06-08 models. So VW could be considered premium amongst the 'everyday' brands.

Is the latest one much better? I drove my sister's two-year old model and thought it was a bit basic, and not a patch on a Focus.

[i] So VW could be considered premium amongst the 'everyday' brands.[/i]
Strange way to view a car. The interior looks more sophisticated/expensive. Therefore that car is 'premium' and commands higher price and status.

Suppose a nice interior, besides being a matter of individual preference. Will be appreciated while one awaits the arrival of the break down service....

Strange way to view a car. The interior looks more sophisticated/expensive. Therefore that car is 'premium' and commands higher price and status.

Not strange at all. What do you think premium means?

Is it treating yourself to Taste the Difference pork pies instead of Tesco Value ones? Or softy softy quilted bog roll?

Depends if you're doing it to be ironic.

Ask the person on checkout what they think.

[i] Not strange at all. What do you think premium means?[/i]

Partial quote posted, in reading the original post, fail.
Never mind, eh.

[i] Depends if you're doing it to be ironic.[/i]

Are you new here ? Only, well, it's Binners. I expect that were you a regular. Then like the rest of us, you'd expect it from this particular member.
They're part of a small group of members who are compulsive, closet comedians. They suffer a seemingly incurable desire to make a joke about everything.

Is the latest one much better? I drove my sister's two-year old model and thought it was a bit basic, and not a patch on a Focus.

.. and my sister got a Golf TDi this year as replacement for her Focus (brand new cc) and it was night and day - the VW 'nicer' & better in everyway. Could just be down to spec levels, maybe your sister got a lower spec Golf / higher spec Focus .. could also be down to taste, a lot of people don't like the black/grey/silver VW interior, can seem a bit sombre.

I'd like a nice car, but without a car allowance I'd just see it as money I could be spending bringing down the mortgage floating away on the wind. But most people I work with think that effectively renting a new car is OK, just see it as a hassle free cost of ownership, in neat monthly chunks.

Partial quote posted, in reading the original post, fail.
Never mind, eh.

I've no idea why you're so confrontational. I quoted a bit to make it clear that I was speaking to you. I'm just wondering about the definition of 'premium' and if it varies between people. Personally, I think a nice interior and lots of gadgets are two of the main things. What do you think?

Re the Focus - I test drove one and found it basic compared to VW 🙂 The new Mk7 one is well received for its interior.

LOL @ "populous". Obviously knows nothing.

Isn't premium look and feel of VW to differentiate from otherwise very similar stable mates from Seat and Skoda?

To answer the original question - judging by all the Range Rovers and Audi 4wd the early morning uber-mums drive to my gym - I'm say that status is still a big deal.

Grips.
I'm not being confrontational. You read my comments about awaiting the break down services. I was making a point. I've owned lots of VAG and FMC cars and I work in the industry. Pretty/attractive interiors are no measure of the 'premium' of a vehicle, when durability, reliability, servicing, safety, etc, etc, are as important, if not more so than a pretty dashboard.

Believe me, there are 'premium' cars out there that I wouldn't want to be a driver/passenger in.

durability, reliability, servicing, safety, etc, etc, are as important

Well they are certainly desirable features, but that's why I'm asking what premium means. Reliable manufacturers aren't considered premium. And not all premium brands are reliable. A lot of people do not buy on reliability.

Remeber that I'm talking about the typical perception of the public here, not your actual opinion.

Judging by the fact that Rolls Royce have again recorded record sales for last year (and will do so again this year). I'm guessing the car as a status symbol among the super rich will be around for a little while yet.

muggomagic - Member
Judging by the fact that Rolls Royce have again recorded record sales for last year (and will do so again this year). I'm guessing the car as a status symbol among the super rich will be around for a little while yet.

Bah, Rollers are as common as cat exhaust. For status you need something unique.

I think this may do...

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RELIANT-FOX-STEAM-CAR-STEAM-DRIVEN-TAX-EXEMPT-PICKUP-/251622568536?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a95dfb258 ]Currently on eBay - don't let it slip past you. :)[/url]