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Ok bit drunk, but here goes...
My 15 year old daugter isnt really interested in anything - thats fine, she is 15...
but it made me think about previous generatons and how they looked at what had gone before them. Revolutions are not started by 47 year old men, its the youth, students, angry young people who look at what thier parents generation, and the generations before, went through and think, **** that, Im not putting up with that shit!
After WWII, we had the 50's with all the music and arguably the 1st time western youth had a voice. then the 60's - turn on, tune and drop out, 70's - disco thenk punk, 80's dance and drugs, 90's grunge and the rise of the nerd, 00's - not a lot, 10's - bugger all!
Have the youth lost thier edge or had it taken away from them?
Are we all slaves to the richest 50 people on the planet? Living in a £250,000 prison but not even realising it?
Will my daughter wake up and tell the powers that be to **** off?
or will she end up like me? A slave who doesnt even know they are a slave? Just like everyone else i know!
You should have taken the red pill..
I don't think any of those examples come even close to being the majority of the youth at the time.
No, look at all the young people taking a stand around the world, kids in the USA standing up against mass murder int heir class rooms, kids here protesting and people in far flung lands laying down their lives or escaping to protect what they believe in.
What have you done to instil this behaviour in your kid?
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/42488702495_8bf636d3d6_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/42488702495_8bf636d3d6_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/27JzGY8 ]IMG_1529[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1804/28523512777_1577ddf17c_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1804/28523512777_1577ddf17c_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/KswsB4 ]IMG_1488[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
Socrates 469-399B.C
The only youth who could rebel in the 60s were from the upper middle classes who'd dropped out of art school; the rest of the boomers, like my parents, had to get a job and work.
Good music, but hardly a revolution. Real revolutions - like the russian one - normally make things worst than they were before. Change takes time, patience, courage.
cheers all,
at my time of life, one of the real pleasures is finding out that i am completely wrong. less and less these days do i learn something new. i dont like that fact...
delighted to learn that it is in fact me, that is a stupid middle aged man!
i voted remain by the way!
Maybe they are that switched on they know telling the powers that be to **** off will get them nowhere. The creativy coming out of the current youth is mind boggling to someone like me, these kids will go on to build enterprises more powerful and bigger than any government, funded amoungst themselves and beholden to no one else. Older generations won't even see it coming as they can't keep up. The powers that be today will be insignificant in future, maybe they just don't see them as a threat.
think you've got 80's and 90's mixed up.
80's I was into goth then grunge/thrash
90's was mainly ****ed up on E's and coke.
🙃
Kicker her out the house and I'm sure she'll get a bit more edgey.
think you’ve got 80’s and 90’s mixed up.
80’s I was into goth then grunge/thrash
90’s was mainly * up on E’s and coke.
🙃
very possibly... lots people i know tell me i was there for the 90's - dont remember a ****ing thing!
rene59
Member
Maybe they are that switched on they know telling the powers that be to * off will get them nowhere. The creativy coming out of the current youth is mind boggling to someone like me, these kids will go on to build enterprises more powerful and bigger than any government, funded amoungst themselves and beholden to no one else. Older generations won’t even see it coming as they can’t keep up. The powers that be today will be insignificant in future, maybe they just don’t see them as a threat.
jesus, i really hope so!
What you have identified is that each decade will be remembered for a tiny minority of youth that did something. This something was probably identified well after the event
@binners...
sorry, perhaps not explianing myself well. im not blaming the youth for anything. quite the opposite. i want them to take to the streets, i want them to be angry, i want them to tell the powers that be that the aint taking it any more - its the youth of today who can change the future and make it better than it is today...
jesus, im more drunk than i thought
ampthill
Subscriber
What you have identified is that each decade will be remembered for a tiny minority of youth that did something. This something was probably identified well after the event
thats much better put than i could ever do. so how do we encourge this generation to do something about the world we live in now?
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
Socrates 469-399B.C
It's an apposite quote but unfortunately not one of Socrates'. I recall it being posted many years ago on a forum, and, having read philosophy at university, with quite an emphasis on Greek philosophers, it struck me that it didn't really sound like him (or Plato using him as his mouthpiece). Further investigation suggested that it wasn't.
JP
just re-read your post
But somehow those hooligans grow up to say the same thing.
thats exactly my point - my parents (born in the late 30's) worked thier socks of to give me a better start than they had. i was born in the earlt 70's and started full time work in the early 90's - i have been a slave ever since. i dont want that for my daughter. how do we break this cycle?
i want them to take to the streets, i want them to be angry, i want them to tell the powers that be that the aint taking it any more – its the youth of today who can change the future and make it better than it is today…
So why don't you? what was the last thing you protested?
Living in a £250,000 prison but not even realising it?
Sweet! My house is worth a hundred grand more than I thought. Most folk i know spent their teens high, asleep or hungover. Really don't think this generation are any better or worse than the last few
@mikesmith
twice in half an hour i have had my position questioned sucessfully - this is fantastic, this is how we learn! You are completly right! what exactly have i done recently? to be honest, i have been far to involved in my own shit to stop and seriously look at the crap that kids today have to deal with...
i hear first hand what my daughter and her friends are invloved in, but we live in a small village in the west of scotland. i cant imagine what its like to walk the streets of a big city in fear of crossing a postocde boundry and potentially getting done in just for being there. but then again, in my youth you could easily get a kicking for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. thats not meant as a comparison between then and now...
so then, what do i do now... how do i make this better - thats a fair point!
@funkmasterp
Most folk i know spent their teens high, asleep or hungover.
exactly like i did - and not a ****ing thing has changed. is it time that something did change?
i cant imagine what its like to walk the streets of a big city in fear of crossing a postocde boundry and potentially getting done in just for being there. but then again, in my youth you could easily get a kicking for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. thats not meant as a comparison between then and now…
So when did you last visit a big city?
If you have done nothing and live in the middle or nowhere how do you expect to be involved in the bigger things going on? It's up to you to educate your kids as to how the world is or send them off to learn about it. Most people get into politics and the world at uni etc. when they leave the protection of home and see what the world is really like
Speaking for the kids I work with, they're way more motivated and hard working than I ever was. And they're going to need to be.
Living in £250,000 prison .I really feel for you it must be terrible.You could always walk away and try one of the homeless hostels ,it will soon help get rid of your middle class angst.
Go out on your bike
Interestingly, something I’ve noticed recently is that the ‘youth’ appear to be less inclined to use fashion and music as a means of giving themselves an identity.
What I mean by that, and I’ll provide a couple of examples, rockers and mods of the ‘60’s/early 70’s, punk in the mid/late 70’s, New Romantics 80’s. Emo, goth, how big a movement is grunge?
I perceive it as it being a way for a young person to help them try to establish and make sense of who they are, how they adopt attitudes, views and opinions by joining a ‘tribe’ of like minded others.
Nowadays I don’t observe the same behaviour, now this might be that as @mikewsmith points out, I now live in a very rural provincial area and don’t get out as much as I used to, or is it that the new generations are more self assured, possibly and likely due to internet and social media, and realise that they can be an individual, choose and develop their own way, rather than forming themselves by association?
There's a 21-yearold son visiting. Musical passion: underground (literally) techo. Lives: Berlin with a group of revolutionaries. Knows more about how the world works and feels more strongly about it than we ever did at that age. Potential for real change: higher now than for 50 years IMO.
What I mean by that, and I’ll provide a couple of examples, rockers and mods of the ‘60’s/early 70’s, punk in the mid/late 70’s, New Romantics 80’s. Emo, goth, how big a movement is grunge?
I perceive it as it being a way for a young person to help them try to establish and make sense of who they are, how they adopt attitudes, views and opinions by joining a ‘tribe’ of like minded others.
Nowadays I don’t observe the same behaviour
There are no real tribes anymore but then what did tribes ever do/change other than give someone a gang/club to be part of? Some were more politically active but most weren't.
What I see from the many young people I work with is a lack of interest in politics but that may have been the same when I was young outside of my circle. Within my circle we were a group of Marxists in a time (Thatcher) when we had a lot to be angry about. But to be honest we didn't do much more than talk about it (a lot) in the pub so didn't make any actual impact.
Aren’t the kids of today just a little pissed off with the elder generations, y’ no.. those Parents that have over the years voted for political parties that have simply ripped and split the county in half.. made successive decisions that exclude them, made the rich richer and the poor poorer and made their schooling more oppressive and more a game of “who gets highest grades” rather than educate ?
And now we have Social Media, do you think all they talk about is pants and ice cream ?
Maybe, rightly, they just don’t want to talk to those old gits that have screwed them over.
Tribes: chavs, hipsters, etc
Music: British rap music is hugely popular. It's just never going to be on radio 2 or 6 (and like all 'new' music is unlistenable to anyone over 30 and not as good as their classic hip hop obviously)
Politics: momentum, remain, etc. More young people voted in that than any other iirc? #metoo ,
Lives: Berlin with a group of revolutionaries.
Is that really true or just what you like to tell yourself? 😆
Being over 30 (just 😉 ) this comes to mind.
And now we have Social Media, do you think all they talk about is pants and ice cream ?
No but perhaps social media is to blame. We are keyboard warriors now. Before t'internet you had to get off your backside and engage with other likened people face to face, which I would argue, is more likely to lead to actual action.
Before t’internet you had to get off your backside and engage with other likened people face to face, which I would argue, is more likely to lead to actual action.
A catchy hashtag and a bit of momentum on social media have removed people from their jobs, brought companies to their knees, changed policy from everthing from schools/colleges/universities, workplaces, local and national government faster than any 'actual action' has done.
Not saying this has always been used as a force for good, but to not have your eyes opened to the power they have is a mistake.
i share a house with a varied bunch including a 20 yr old blonde Swedish model. She has just gone to Florida for a week and left her suitcase at the house despite spending a night away from the house before heading to Gatwick. It was only at checkin that she realised.
They aren’t all motivated rocket scientists.
It's what I like to tell you, Seosamh.
Consider the young Sweedish girl nagging the capitalists at Davos. The school kids strking one day a week because they have no future on a screwed up planet (no points for remembering who sang "no future"). Kids out on the streets in many countries. The local kids here burning rubbish bins outside the local school.
We rejected Club Med and holidays in the Sun, and voted with our feet on the basis that voting for any of the parties was just pissing into the wind. That was already a break from our parents' faith in the institutions. There is no longer any reason for young people to have any faith in the institutions at all because the institutions just shit on them - I may elaborate later.
The Berlin revolutionaries might just change the world because they're such lousy consumers. The don't give a monkeys about flash cars or flash consumer stuff in general, they refuse to fuel the fires they don't agree with. They'll make billionaies of Lidl, Aldi and tofu sellers but apart form that they're master recyclers, second-hand dealers, warehouse invaders. They understand enough about how the planet works to give a ****, which we didn't.
We were nihilists, this generation cares.
we've gone full circle, from this generation don't give a hoot, to this generation will save us all! 😆
I suspect reality lies somewhere else!
i share a house with a varied bunch including a 20 yr old blonde Swedish model.
I do wonder how many of those criticising the young actually did all the big protests in their youth or are most just hanging on the coat tails of others.
As some have pointed out in the current generation the power of social media has exploded, the levels of change around #MeToo as an example or the environmental changes business are undertaking is a great sign for the future.
A catchy hashtag and a bit of momentum on social media have removed people from their jobs, brought companies to their knees, changed policy from everthing from schools/colleges/universities, workplaces, local and national government faster than any ‘actual action’ has done.
Well hopefully the PM has one eye on the STW forum.
Before t’internet you had to get off your backside and engage with other likened people face to face, which I would argue, is more likely to lead to actual action.
What "actual action"are you talking about? Precious little sign of it.
I dunno, maybe it's because their parents' generation priced them out of university tuition, home ownership, public transport and pensions; blocked them from working or studying abroad; will retire early and sponge off them for thirty+ years; and then have the temerity of accusing them of being apathetic and uncaring about their lot?
What “actual action”are you talking about? Precious little sign of it.
The sort of stuff that used to happen. Protests on the street. Poll tax, miner's strike, that sort of thing. Precious little sign of now.. that was my point.
The sort of stuff that used to happen. Protests on the street. Poll tax, miner’s strike, that sort of thing. Precious little sign of now.. that was my point.
Which ones were you at?
In recent memory these went on
Iraq War Marches
Pro EU Marches
Student Fees Protests
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/21/swarming-sit-down-protests-aim-to-disrupt-london-traffic another one there
Mass protests outside every G__ event, lots of protests outside party conferences
Which ones were you at?
What would that prove other than the "anecdotal evidence" which normally gets trashed here anyway (with good reason)? The topic is how engaged are the younger generation in general, not individually.
Mostly out of interest as you seem to say "people" were involved before I was wondering who those "people" were along the way. As I said also there are heaps of protests and demonstrations going on all over the place at the moment and have been for years - not sure how effective some of them are or how effective some of the previous ones were - the miners strike effectively helped to kill off the power of the unions and end up with people worse off. It certainly didn't end a Tory government or slow down Thatcher in the end.
slowoldman
The sort of stuff that used to happen. Protests on the street. Poll tax, miner’s strike, that sort of thing. Precious little sign of now.
There are still major protests, it's just that they get met with derision, lies about numbers, hostile policing, and "get a job" "get a bath" "bloody students". And every so often one gets a bit too noisy and becomes "wanton criminality".
And besides, you seem to miss the point of the poll tax, miner's strike, and then later criminal justice act demos- people got their heads kicked in then got ignored. The miner's strike especially was used to teach people a lesson in why protesting can be bad for you. The miners learned it well enough.
“get a job” “get a bath” “bloody students” “wanton criminality”
The above has always been so. Add the newspaper favourites "pond life" and "work-shy" to the list.
Asking permission to protest, hmmmmm right yeah can see how that works and who it suits.
It's funny how quick, British people, once they get a few quid and feet under table drop all their principles and stand for nothing. Oh except when there's fracking, a new build estate, recycling facility or new runway near their house.
I dunno, maybe it’s because their parents’ generation priced them out of university tuition, home ownership, public transport and pensions; blocked them from working or studying abroad; will retire early and sponge off them for thirty+ years; and then have the temerity of accusing them of being apathetic and uncaring about their lot?
This. Plus the small matter of screwing up the planet.
The sort of stuff that used to happen. Protests on the street. Poll tax, miner’s strike, that sort of thing. Precious little sign of now
When people try that now they get sentenced to years in jail.
It’s funny how quick, British people, once they get a few quid and feet under table drop all their principles and stand for nothing.
Yep, was saying to wife only yesterday how we should really be selfish tories by now as we are both in our 50's.
It is not really surprising though as you become more settled, less angry and have seen it all before that most become less protesty or principled.