You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Saw same at BPW. Bloke in nice well looked after modified car packing up his bike and kit. Fiddling about. Gets in car drives off leaving the McD’s wrappers from his car neatly left under where the car was. 5m from a bloody bin
A few years back I saw a group drive off leaving a similar mess… but it also included a 20mm fox axle.
Always smile at that bit of instant karma.
At Coniston yesterday coming off Grizedale to lakeside could smell burning but no people around. Some kind soul had tipped the charcoal from their 'proper' BBQ onto tinder dry leaves and scrub by the lake edge so I'm not sure the mini BBQ sets are the answer, still made for idiots.
As per the fire in Scotland, much of the media seems to be blaming 'wild campers' which is probably unlikely given most wild campers are usually quite a responsible bunch.
Could have been caused by anything really. a broken bottle magnifying the rays coupled with really dry heather.
This why I camp in winter. My fire is safe because snow doesnt burn.
As per the fire in Scotland, much of the media seems to be blaming ‘wild campers’ which is probably unlikely given most wild campers are usually quite a responsible bunch.
They'll be people who claim to be wild camping but who would be more accurately descried as fly campers. Sadly there's far to many people now who don't expect to have to deal with their own waste, even to the extent of just taking it home in their own car. Sadly it's not just the chavs but middle-class people will just dump rubbish by already full public bins.
"thus the whole exercise in putting the signs up in the first place is completely pointless"
But extremely profitable for sign makers, especially those with a mate on the local council.
And come to think of it, has anybody ever obeyed, or ever observed anyone else obeying a 'cyclists dismount' sign?
Signs are just my ‘thing’. For some it’s litter, others it’s graffiti. Mine is signs
Me, it’s dickheads bagging their dog shit, tying a neat little knot at the top and dropping it on the ground. If you think that a few signs are worse than that, then I’m wondering about your priorities.
Oh, and as regards to assholes who are far too entitled to obey instructions to not light fires in areas highly susceptible to turning into a wildfire, this country might consider leasing a few amphibious water-bombers - two warnings about ignoring signs and instructions about not lighting fires, and they get a water bomber.
Sorry, no photo, I’ve given up after eight attempts to post a photo from the internet. 😖
Finally, something like this:
Or these, the Canadian Canadair bombers, Spain uses them - they’d be ideal.
Oh ffs! What is wrong with image posting on this site now? It’s really pissing me off, nothing I’m posting from image search will post.
Not even the one that posted the first time now.
Most of these arguments date back at least as far as the 1930s when leisure time and mobility enabled people to get out of cities. As someone else posted, there's more people now.
25p deposit on plastic bottles, if said scum still throw them away, kids will retrieve them and cash them in.
We have this in Queensland now (once Coca Cola were overcome as they didn't want it). Consumer still pays though as the price of everything goes up.
There's a big depot near me with conveyor belts. You put your cans/bottles on the conveyor, it counts them out and either debits your account or gives you cash. In some places charities have bins, so you put your rubbish in and they get paid.
I've definitely seen people scouring the roadsides collecting.
Does it work to keep litter levels down? No idea, but it must be better and obviously it means more material is being recycled.
And come to think of it, has anybody ever obeyed, or ever observed anyone else obeying a ‘cyclists dismount’ sign?
IIRC those signs have no legal status and can be happily ignored - merely advisory not mandatory
Ebikers/end thread
And anyway, the next day the council come and clear up the mess (they should be polishing every blade of grass for the outrageous amount of council tax they extract…)
Or just put out a few big bins and send in a team of council workers in the morning to clear up a bit
and there it is.... "Litter keeps people in a job entitlement"
but I'm sure you're only trolling.....
[url= https://i.ibb.co/M5dn8t7/IMG-4866.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/M5dn8t7/IMG-4866.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/k6D4rGK/IMG-4864.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/k6D4rGK/IMG-4864.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Just back from a weekend on Mull (Mull sportive) ,very,very clean all over the island. There was a bit of overflow at the bins near the chip van in Tobermory, but it was very busy and all cleaned up the next day (possibly by seagulls). The only annoying bastards I met were the midge. 😆
very,very clean all over the island
That's because getting onto Mull requires military planning in advance and running the lottery of Scotrail 'short notice timetable changes' (previously known as 'cancellations' 🙄) and whatever lunacy Calmac have baked up on the day.
The secret to keeping your island nice is to not let anyone in it! 😂
Just back from a weekend on Mull (Mull sportive) ,very,very clean all over the island.
The residents do try to keep the island clean, particularly over winter. What’s particularly noticeable is after Easter and the tourists arrive, the rubbish starts appearing on the verges and in car parks.
However, I also wish farmers, fisherman and builders were as careful with their waste - they still think that leaving stuff to get blown away in the wind is a valid method of waste disposal
The secret to keeping your island nice is to not let anyone in it! 😂
We do our best endeavours to keep the riff-raff away 😉 but the folks who run Calmac appear to be doing a great job on our behalf 🤣🤣 and a special mention to Highland Council who run the Corran Ferry
The secret to keeping your island nice is to not let anyone in it! 😂
you are Nigel Farage and I claim my £5!
I doubt there are more assholes - but Covid made people who would normally be assholes in Magaluf, Ayanapa, Ibiza, Benidorm etc stay at home and discover where they could be selfish ****s locally. Brexit and cost of living have made it easier for them to keep doing it. The internet has made it very easy for people to research where to go. BUT I don’t think the opening post is right - you don’t find those folk on the hills - you find them at the bottom of the hills less than a mile from their car. Except for a few very specific / popular tourist hills, which are so busy they aren’t fun to go up on a sunny weekend anyway.
The residents do try to keep the island clean, particularly over winter. What’s particularly noticeable is after Easter and the tourists arrive, the rubbish starts appearing on the verges and in car parks.
This is definitely a thing - part of it must be volume of people, but is some of it that visitors are more likely to chuck rather than take it home?
The internet has made it very easy for people to research [s] where to go[/s] [b]where some Instabanger / #Vanlife took a pic or where some odd-ball website which makes advertising money from '10 best places to visit......' articles (which were researched from the aforementioned Instabangers), so leading to huge overcrowding in honeypot locations.[/b]
FTFY
Oh ffs! What is wrong with image posting on this site now? It’s really pissing me off, nothing I’m posting from image search will post.
What I find disapointing is the contrast with France, where there's hardly any litter. It shows that it can be done, just that the British can't be bothered............
What I find disapointing is the contrast with France, where there’s hardly any litter. It shows that it can be done, just that the British can’t be bothered
I mentioned this in my 'spring clean' thread - a week in Perpignan and I reckon I'd have collected half a bag max of litter compared to a full bag every time I go out with doggo in UK
Many European countries are cleaner than the UK though. We must spend so much on enforcement, clean up, damage repair, prevention & security etc etc.
I guess my original question and points are that education and culture change are needed. Massively.
Get caught littering and pay a fine or made to go litter picking for the same amount of time as it would take you to earn the fine amount
I don't know whether it's more baffling or depressing that it's deemed to be be an education issue. "I'm not supposed to leave my shite everywhere? I had no idea!"
It needs to become a social stigma. Can you imagine, going to the cinema and lighting up a cigarette? When I was a kid it was the norm, the seats had ashtrays, by the end of the film you could barely see the screen though the fug. Today it'd be like "jesus man, what's wrong with you?!" We've changed attitudes in a fairly short space of time. We managed it with seatbelts and we're getting there with mobile phones.
I don’t know whether it’s more baffling or depressing that it’s deemed to be be an education issue. “I’m not supposed to leave my shite everywhere? I had no idea!”
People mostly don't learn these things by being told. They simply do as they see others doing - it's a well researched phenomenon. There are loads of instances where people know something is wrong but they go 'oh.. well, it's not that big of a deal'. Traffic lights are an example - whilst a lot of people will nip through a light just as it's gone red, in most cases people will stop - even if there's no-one around, because it's what you do. However, on bikes, a great many people will sail through junctions regardless despite knowing that the rules are the same. If it's late at night and/or the roads are truly deserted, I will do this too on a bike but not in a car.
So once people internally normalise leaving litter, they'll make up excuses why it doesn't matter. You identify this phenomenon in your second paragraph - if it becomes not 'what you do' then people stop doing it.
i think there's more crappy people, always bumping into ignorant folks blaring out music, starting fires etc or even better, posting on YouTube their average riding on footpaths then being arrogant over the matter.
Also, making the unemployables who hang around in urban centres (and who contribute massively to the problem) pick up litter for their Spoons benefits. Here's a grabber and five bin bags - come back with them full by close of office hours or no money. Or bus them out to a roadside location to the same effect. I realise the STW demographic will stop wringing their hands long enough to throw them up in horror at that suggestion.
And you were doing so well until the final sentence.
They simply do as they see others doing – it’s a well researched phenomenon.
Smokers - some smokers of course - seem to be particularly bad for this. There seems to be a mentality of "it's only a little cigarette butt" as they ping it to the floor. Then others monkey see monkey do, "well, what difference does just one more make?"
The main road here was renovated a year or so ago, nice new pavements and road resurfaced, today it's absolutely strewn with fag ends. I get that you want to smoke but how hard is it to use an ashtray? Put a sand bucket outside your shop or something.
Bunch of savages in this town.
COVID seems to have introduced a load of ‘new’ people into the outdoors and they don’t give a monkeys about how they treat it or leave it.
Someone must have already corrected this surely?
Ebikes have introduced a load of ‘new’ people into the outdoors and they don’t give a monkeys about how they treat it or leave it.
Anyway. @montgomery:
making the unemployables who hang around in urban centres (and who contribute massively to the problem) pick up litter for their Spoons benefits. Here’s a grabber and five bin bags – come back with them full by close of office hours or no money
They'd just go to the bins and fill their bin bags from there. It's what the kids did when they were getting paid £1/bag to clear litter up from the beaches in Anglesey.
It amazes me that people have ideas that children can see through and think they're workable (before accusing people to whom this is obvious of being "hand wringers").
🙂
Not on moorland roadside picks, which is my bugbear round here
If I were on benefits and was forced to do that, I’d just empty out another bin somewhere at the end of my shift to even out the karma.
Crap idea.
Many European countries are cleaner than the UK though. We must spend so much on enforcement, clean up, damage repair, prevention & security etc etc.
I guess my original question and points are that education and culture change are needed. Massively.
In Germany I think there are 3 aspects that seem to make people more reposnible.
1, You are legally responsible to keep the area in front of your home clean, you get fined if you don't, apart from the practical difference this makes, IMO it also educates responsibility away from the home in terms of littering.
2, Deposit (pfand) on bottles, so it is worth taking them back to the shop for recycling, now my understanding of recycling is that it is virtually worthless in the current implementation, again other than to educate responsibility.
3, There are more on street bins to put rubbish in, which are regularly emptied, make it easy and people are more likely to co-operate, the Government (and the Germans who vote for them) have largely decided that higher taxation for such services is a worthwhile investment.
So a little bit of carrot and a little bit of stick to nudge everyone to do the right thing.
Another thing is in europe, especially northern europe, the effects of pollution was visible in the 80s and 90s, with acid rain stripping greenery from plant life. A generation saw the physical effects of mans impact on the environment, and grew up more aware of the problems because of it.
Instagram innit? Photos of you sat on the sofa are in no way showing everyone else how you are "living your best life". Better go out and gram yourself on a mountain ridge.
Probably more social/affordable housing in Europe too. So people have a stake in their surroundings and aren’t constantly feeling like they’re having their trousers pulled down.
Smokers – some smokers of course – seem to be particularly bad for this. There seems to be a mentality of “it’s only a little cigarette butt” as they ping it to the floor. Then others monkey see monkey do, “well, what difference does just one more make?”
Broken Window theory innit
https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archive/shattering-broken-windows#:~:text=First%20proposed%20by%20the%20late,that%20encourages%20more%20serious%20crimes.
<p>@natrix - cheers for that, I’ve no idea why I’m getting problems posting images from online searches. I had no issues at all a while back just pasting the URL straight into the text box, but now I either get a little blue box with a ? in it, or the URL without an image. Pasting into the image dialogue box does zip. 😖</p>
Nice to see Lee Anderson has joined the forum.
He has a clever, workable ‘common sense’ solution to most issues and I’m sure has found the answer in this instance
And come to think of it, has anybody ever obeyed, or ever observed anyone else obeying a ‘cyclists dismount’ sign?
One of our new councillors is banging on at us (I do transport stuff for a city council...) to install a load of Cyclists Dismount signs. Apparently said councillor got it in the neck at some community/canvassing event before local elections about "bloody cyclists on the pavement" and the solution apparently is to waste a shedload of council money on this bollocks.
I mean yes, people are arseholes, but you design the infrastructure to prevent them doing stupid things, not put signs up that they'll ignore.
My previous local had a whole wall o signs. ‘Respect our neighbours - **** off quietly’ NO SMOKING ON THE DECK’ ‘Children not allowed after 8pm’ ‘Dogs to be kept under control at all times’ etc etc. But I think the landlord just got carried away at Makro cos it was a cracking boozer and smoking spliffs was tolerated outside (NOT ON THE DECK)
You want to have a wander round Royal Blackburn Hospital, you'd be in the right place to have your anyurism.
It is dripping with signs, from the metre-high KEEP LEFT signs and the 2m spots on the floor as the covid response, do 'do not smoke' signs and a recorded message, to 'do not park here, emergency response vehicles only'. All roundly ignored by both public and staff alike, and not enforced at all despite there being what looks like a SWAT detail in reception most days doing absolutely nothing.
We're at fault too for not challenging these 'litter louts'.
I have politely asked the litter lout to either take their litter home (in the countryside,) also I've asked litter louts to pop their dropped rubbish in the bin (often a metre or so away). Yes I've been sworn at and ignored and even called 'Hitler' but I will carry on.
OP - yes you are correct. The hills are now full of 'newbie countryside' visitors that are ignorant, rude, selfish, uncaring and don't give a toss about anyone but themselves. They park badly, where they like, they drop litter, let their dogs off into fields with ground nesting birds and new lambs. They bring picnics, tents and half the house and just leave.
My latest rant is these souped up quad bikes, racing around, polluting, making lots of noise and churning up tracks.
We should encourage people into the countryside, but somehow educate them first. How to do this is beyond me.
I've never seen it this bad.
We’re at fault too for not challenging these ‘litter louts’.
Might be different as a lady, but confronting a group of 'lads' takes some courage.
Might be different as a lady, but confronting a group of ‘lads’ takes some courage.
Cougar - you are correct (thanks for calling me a lady, it doesn't happen often) :0)
I've even seen an elderly lady thumped when she politely asked a mother to pick up her child's discarded rubbish (again a metre or so from a bin).
Get caught littering and pay a fine or made to go litter picking for the same amount of time as it would take you to earn the fine amount
Ultimately the law is not far off that. Get caught littering and you will get a fine (I think the fixed penalty is £60 - reduced to £30 if paid quickly?). If you don't pay the fixed penalty it goes to court and if convicted you will be fined (likely more). if you don't pay that fine you will ultimately face sanctions like community payback orders (litter picking).
Making the hours proportional to your income is probably not right though - why should someone well off with a good income only spend 30 minutes litter picking but someone scraping by on minimum wage have to do a full day?
But there are two flaws with this: 1. you need to get caught; mostly "wardens" are in busy areas and quite visible so unlikely to help much on the hills; 2. the costs of community pay back exceed what it would cost just to employ someone to do the work, its cheaper than prison and appears to be useful but the state (i.e. you and me) are paying to punish people rather than the offender saving the state money.
Definitely more A-holes in general.
I'm currently banned from our local Facebook community group after posting a photo and asking (politely) if the local clarty dog walkers could stop dumping poo bags in a pile on the canal path. Obviously one of the mods is one of the guilty dog walkers...
Our local council's just got rid of all environmental enforcement officers as part of cost savings, so there's now absolutely nobody investigating littering of any scale.
A while ago I contemplated a public service operation. You send in a video of a close pass with an identifiable number plate, we post the registered keeper a couple of bags of dogshit harvested from the countryside. Everyone’s a winner. But I suppose the DVLA wouldn’t entertain this as “reasonable cause” to release the keeper’s details 🙂
I love it. Could the scheme not be extended to delivering a bin lorry full of rubish to litter louts gardens?
Alot of these people would drive to within 100mtr to the top of ben nevis if they were able. Walk for 5 mins, grab a whole load of pics of themselves living their best lifes. Post them on insta, then go to jdw for pie and chips, as they have conquered the great outdoors
My big bug bare is litter. McDonald’s takeaways are the worst round here, morons just lob them out the window. What kind of person does that?
I remember almost having a stand up fight with some knobber when I challenged him for just dumping his rubbish on ground in a carpark when there was a bin literally 20 foot away. There needs to be a way to print your car reg on the wrappers so these clowns can be traced and fined
And dont start me on dog owners leaving bags of poo everywhere. Utter bell ends.
I blame E-bikes.
When I get to the top of a mountain where nobody else used to go, I now meet a fat f***er on an E-bike munching a bag of crisps...😄
And dont start me on dog owners leaving [bags of] poo everywhere. Utter bell ends.
when I challenged him for just dumping his rubbish on ground in a carpark
Was at Manchester Airport a few years back having just been dropped off. A door opened in the car in front and someone dropped an empty ribena carton on the ground.
I went across and lobbed it back through the window across the front seats hopefully spraying the occupants a tad.
The guy looked furious and started to remonstrate and get out. He glared at me, I nodded towards the Policeman standing 20 yards away with a rather natty looking machine pistol.
The driver got back in his car and drove off.
Lots of pissing and moaning on this thread. Is anyone actually doing anything about it? Leading by example? (edited to add apart from the poster above!)
Joining the mountain formerly known as Snowdon litter pickers association?
Started a local branch of CivicPride?
Grabbing a litter picker and clearing their area?
Etc etc
There’s probably no one solution but give people good prospects and reason to respect stuff that is theirs to use and you might have only half the battle.
Totally - pandering to chavs will absolutely stop them chucking McDonald's wrappers all over the countryside. It's a slam dunk. I can't believe it hasn't been tried.
Alot of these people would drive to within 100mtr to the top of ben nevis if they were able. Walk for 5 mins, grab a whole load of pics of themselves living their best lifes. Post them on insta, then go to jdw for pie and chips, as they have conquered the great outdoors
Didn't someone literally do that on Snowden? My Welsh friend is always complaining about it (and my inability to say its real name).
Most people round here think Civic Pride is a Cross Channel Ferry.
Didn’t someone literally do that on Snowden? My Welsh friend is always complaining about it (and my inability to [s]say[/s] spell its real name).
😉
Most people round here think Civic Pride is a Cross Channel ferry.
Less tutting and walking past litter and more doing.
Most people round here think Civic Pride is a Cross Channel Ferry.
And, presumably, 52% of them think that it should be intercepted and sunk by the RN as a result.
Unfortunately - and it pains me to say this - we really are a country of louts and philistines.
Lots of pissing and moaning on this thread. Is anyone actually doing anything about it? Leading by example? (edited to add apart from the poster above!)
grabbing a litter picker and clearing other peoples rubbish off the streets doesn’t do anything to stop people behaving like a holes. Conversely if they see other folks clearing up their mess after them there is even less chance they will change their unsociable habits
What people need to be doing is challenging these people directly when they see it happening. And tackle the root cause to make it harder for folks to litter in first place (ie ban McDonald’s drive through) or heavily fine anyone caught littering
Most people round here think Civic Pride is a Cross Channel Ferry.
Morons.
It's clearly a special edition Honda.
Lots of pissing and moaning on this thread. Is anyone actually doing anything about it? Leading by example?
I'm world class at a passive aggressive tut or two.
I also do clean up regularly, and on occasion (to my wife and kids horror) do actually try to explain nicely that parking there/lighting a fire/etc isn't really appropriate. I've not yet been punched (it's been close...) and I like think a few numpties think twice in case another do-gooder challenges them.
That and deliver national environmental and outdoor education programmes for a living... 😉
grabbing a litter picker and clearing other peoples rubbish off the streets doesn’t do anything to stop people behaving like a holes.
No but it makes the place tidier whilst you work on banning Maccys drive thrus.🤔
Anyway in the real world I spotted this on Mondays evening walk so tonight being 'Walking Wednesday' with a couple of guys from work we dragged the table legs and a discarded dingy the half mile or so to a bin where I reported it to the fly tipping team for collection.
[url= https://i.ibb.co/whKF1kK/IMG-4875.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/whKF1kK/IMG-4875.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/7vgPD4K/IMG-4893.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/7vgPD4K/IMG-4893.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/jDkTtb4/IMG-4894.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/jDkTtb4/IMG-4894.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/Qj3GTwg/IMG-4896.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/Qj3GTwg/IMG-4896.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
grabbing a litter picker and clearing other peoples rubbish off the streets doesn’t do anything to stop people behaving like a holes.
Kind of does actually. People are more likely to drop litter if there is already litter.
Broken window syndrome.
Totally – pandering to chavs will absolutely stop them chucking McDonald’s wrappers all over the countryside.
I think the idea is to help them not be chavs any more...
My local Asda had disposible BBQs on offer for just £2.50 at the front of the store yesterday. I really do think these things should be banned.
As for doing something, I am always litter picking. I popped to the river for a stroll by the water yesterday and picked up a load of empty Fosters cans dumped in a hedge. It's never decent beer these lazy buggers drink.
I think the idea is to help them not be chavs any more…
Chavs are chavs. Plenty of chavs have way more money than I do and simply regard their wealth as a way of opting out of rule #1 even more forcibly.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/MHdqbm0k/FB-IMG-1686300836108.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/MHdqbm0k/FB-IMG-1686300836108.jp g"/> [/img][/url]