[Closed] Are japanese cars more reliable than european/french cars?

Around that time the most reliable cars were Hondas built in the UK.

Japanese design philosophy seems somewhat better than European, generally. They're more expensive when they do go wrong but much much less likely to go wrong.

Generally yes. Check up reliability surveys.. Can you go back in time for them? Although back then VW were also good, it was before a period of cock ups.

Comparing my Yaris with the Touran, the Yaris is designed with fixing and unbolting in mind. The VW is all plastic covers and non-serviceable units. Maybe the two years in between manufacture, but it seems a Toyota design thing.

We've got a 97 Toyota Corolla with 130,000 miles on it. It will not die and when it gets a bit poorly, it cost buttons to fix.

Cost less to run that my 2005 Astra.

Toyota engines assembled in north wales, cars built in the north east,

Nissan and Honda, assembled in the uk,

we also have indian range rover land rovers,Jaguars,

at least youre be helping british workers afford to buy stuff

Around that time the most reliable cars are Hondas built in the UK.

I have a 2000 Honda. 14 year old and it's passed every MOT since I bought it 3 years ago. In that time I've changed the exhaust (was knackered when I bought it), the battery, brake pads and a couple of bulbs. Engine runs like new with 120k on it.

In my own personal experience, every Japanese car I've had has been bombproof (and I've rarely bought cars newer than 10 years old). Every British car I've owned on the other hand, has been made of cheese, quickly finding themselves on the scrapheap.

Post 2000 I doubt there's anything in it. The real peak of the Japanese car industry was in the 80s I reckon. It just took everyone else over a decade to catch up.

We've had a "Y" reg Yaris from new.
I was one of the last to be built in Japan.
It's still on the original exhaust, clutch, everything...

Look around you, what do you see? I see lots of old cars still on the road and very few of them are Japanese. Manufacturers keep spares available for a limited time after the end of production, after that a hard-to-find spare can send an otherwise good car to the breakers.

I work for a main dealer that sells Vauxhall, Suzuki, Seat and Hyundai, the Suzukis are by far the most reliable

I drive a '95 Micra. It never goes wrong but then there isn't that much to go wrong. 😆

Used to drive a VTEC Honda and did a lot of hard miles in it. There was not one journey I'd make where it wouldn't see the 8,500rpm redline.
The fan stopped working on settings 1 and 2.
Two new resistors, £1.30.

Edukator - Troll

Look around you, what do you see?

Shit loads of older Japanese cars.

Look around you, what do you see? I see lots of old cars still on the road and very few of them are Japanese.

I'd say it was the other way round. Up to 10 years old, there are huge amounts of British and European cars, I'm guessing because they're sold in such huge amounts in the first place. Which would make a lot of sense - British cars being sold in Britain, and that. But going back 15+ years , I'm sure a lot of those cars I see are Japanese. A few VAG cars. Very few British or French. But maybe those are just the ones I notice.

Our Toyota Rav is now 10 years and 120,000 miles old and mechanically is like new. I can't think of anything that's failed, and it even seems light on consumables. Doesn't use oil. Still on original clutch. No rattles. Annual servicing costs have been a few hundred quid on average.

Much better than the the various VAG products I've burnt money on running during the same period.

I like Toyota.

West Africa runs on Toyota and the the odd petrol vw/audi converted to CNG

Yep, stacks of old Japanese cars about.

Seems like an endorsement.

I work for a original equipment supplier (bearings) I tend to purchase SEAT as I fins them the most hardy a nd reliable .

My 1999 Nissan Almera has been faultless. Obviously a few things have worn out (but only in the last few years).

Also maybe something to do with folk that buy them, and the use they get - plus servicing.

Young lass hit a big pothole near us (rural) last night, and punctured. Turned out that not only was that tyre bald, but her spare was also bald and flat (she'd not had it fixed from the last puncture). I can't imagine that she serviced her car either, it was a newish Peugeot. Now people say that French cars aren't reliable, but if their owners don't actually look after them; what do they expect?

Look around you, what do you see? I see lots of old cars still on the road and very few of them are Japanese. Manufacturers keep spares available for a limited time after the end of production, after that a hard-to-find spare can send an otherwise good car to the breakers

Loads of japanese cars. And I still get all required spares for my 24 year old japanese car. Go into a scrap yard, you will see countless dozens of fords, Peugeot, Citroens and vauxhauls, very few japanese.

I don't want to tempt fate but my wifes 05 corolla has already done 120k and is so far running strong. Had no service costs other than consumables and she does at least 70 miles a day 5 days a week. When it finally does die i'll be looking for another one but i'm hoping that's some time off yet.

Are japanese cars more reliable than european/french cars?

Yes, by quite a bit

With cars of that age, you're taking a chance either way.

Source: have only ever owned mid-to-late 90s cars, currently a 1999 Lexus IS200 and a 1998 Clio.

The Jap ones are infinitely easier to fix yourself though, and therefore cheaper to run. Clio and Lexus have both had issues recently, but the Clio is the one we're trying to ignore (immobiliser circuit knackered) as it'll cost 3x the car's value to put right. Lexus is a Lambda sensor issue, just waiting for the replacement sensor in the post.

FWIW, the most reliable (Mazda RX7, believe it or not) and least reliable (Legnum VR4) cars I've owned have both been Japanese.

We had a Nissan Almera when we needed a reliable car (i.e. small kids). In 8 years it had a light bulb and a section of exhaust. Way better than any car, before or since.

It was extremely dull though, but actually very nice to drive.

After a huge amount of research i decided to buy a 1996 Toyota and pay £3,500 for the privileged. So far I have not regretted my decision.

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I've had loads of british cars. Always needed loads of work doing on them, always cost a fortune. Had a few french cars, they were even worse. They'd break just by sitting on the drive. Had a couple of german cars which have been very well put together, mostly reliable but expensive when they do fail.

Best car ever is my honda accord though. Fricking awesome. It just keeps going, sails through every single MOT with a new bulb or some brake pads, runs like a dream, pulls like a train. Brilliant.

It's an '05 plate and every know and again I'll have a look at autotrader 330's and A4's and think I really should sell it and get something newer, less aged and more flashy but then I realise it's ace and I'd be stupid to get rid.

Gave up on the VW and Merc cars and vans I use to drive a few years ago, fed up with things going wrong and the costs, and switched to Toyota, totally reliable and no regrets, never go wrong. Motorbikes - only ever buy Honda for the same reason

My preference is only for Toyota or other Japs made cars. Don't care if it looks ugly so long as it's reliable and low in maintenance cost. My 2005 Corolla Auto gear has 31k++ mileage on the clock so I guess it will last me a while yet before I get another one.

The only costly replacement I have had so far is the ABS sensor going kaput. Other than that just normal wear and tear.

Also whenever I fill up the tank I would mix about 100ml to 200ml 2T motorbike engine oil to it, making the engine quieter and smoother. No harm to the car as my dragster racing mate has been doing so for many years. 🙂

Our Toyota Rav is now 10 years and 120,000 miles old and mechanically is like new. I can't think of anything that's failed, and it even seems light on consumables. Doesn't use oil.

Depends where in Europe easier to say brands. Basically avoid Peugeot Citroen fiat

Good around 2000 vw skoda ford (yes a around then getting great build quality and still not that bad!).

But then yes Japanese is good stuff!

Everyone has an opinion.....

My 2002 Toyota Yaris has done about 110,000 miles and is a good little runner (that just about manages my Trek in the rear). I'm hoping to keep it to 150,000 miles. Then I may replace it with an Auris.

Had an '04 Honda Accord. Most unreliable car I've owned, and I've owned a Megane.
Bought a Honda as I wanted trouble free motoring and got anything but, was constantly going wrong, my uncle's Accord has been similarly disappointing.

Yes they are.

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

[i]Also maybe something to do with folk that buy them, and the use they get[/i]

And based upon the above, I'm not that far wrong - 10 y/o cars with 100k on, I use to do that in under 3 years in French/British/German cars.

Most reliable car I ever had was a Xantia TD, 160k in 4 years from new - and pretty much every mile driven hard on company-fuel.

Chewkw, adding engine oil to the fuel will poison the catalyst and oxygen sensors. Your driving style may burn off the poisons but it is a bad thing to do. Dragster engines are a little different to car engines.

Chewk - hope its a diesel.

Had an '04 Honda Accord. Most unreliable car I've owned, and I've owned a Megane.

There seems to be a lot of unhappy customers with 'newer' Japanese cars, from what I've read. Especially people who have moved from older to newer models and been disappointed. I'm sure some of them are great still, but post 2000 they're definitely not quite the standard that they were. The Japanese economy has been stagnant for over a decade. Things change. And also there's globalisation. Nissan are now part owned by Renault, for example. That sounds like a marriage made in hell. And so many cars now share a fundamental framework despite being created by completely different manufacturers. Unless you go into niche markets, I'm not sure there is such a thing as a Japanese car or a British car any more. They're just cars, created by manufacturers, globally.

It pains me, because I'm unsure if I'll ever find (almost) trouble free motoring again with a car older than 10 years.

Well my current VW is at 147k and running OK with only a couple of niggles. I've had a couple of Rovers in the past to well over 140k and running well (Hondas I suppose).

I quite fancy a C3 Picasso but I know there lies madness.

large418 - Member

Chewkw, adding engine oil to the fuel will poison the catalyst and oxygen sensors.

trail_rat - Member

Chewk - hope its a diesel.

Petrol engine but it will work for diesel too. Before I tried it my friend told me he would buy me a new car if my engine go kaput.

Well I have been doing so for the past 3 years now. Car still run as smooth as the first day I bought it but quieter. If it is a problem then my mate's car would be dead many times over. Just add 100ml or so if you are unsure so it will burn it off easily.

Had an '04 Honda Accord. Most unreliable car I've owned, and I've owned a Megane.

Really? I was looking at one of those for a future purchase.

Whats gone wrong on it etc??

Only had one Japanese engine (an Isuzu Diesel) - in that tiny, limited sample it was rubbish, it seized solid at about 60,000 miles. Never touched anything Japanese with 4 wheels otherwise.

My french car is currently in surrender mode 🙂

THe problems largely seem to stem from the electronics and electrical Items these days, and it hits all cars fairly heavily but the Japanese are somewhat more accustomed to small electronics than most. I have always had a Peugeot as a daily driver and never yet has one owed me anything, cheap as chips to own and run, not the lap of luxury but never fails. But I'd be very wary of a newer one as they seem determined to cram them full of failure points that even BMW and the Japanese don't get fully right.

Oil in your fuel is a very bad idea in a modern engine.

coffeeking - Member

Oil in your fuel is a very bad idea in a modern engine.

My Toyota Corolla is 2005, my mate's Toyota Landcruiser and Hilux are both 2006 models and all our cars never miss a beat. Ok, the latter are diesel but he tried it on his Subaru Impreza for several years with no ill effect.

Diesel is effectively oil, so not really the point. What you don't realise is the emissions you're creating, the accelerated sensor poisoning, the gumming up of injectors and valves and rings (ever popped the head off a car that had long term oil consumption?), the increased likelihood of in cyl hotspots and knock, the cat damage.

Of course a couple of cars can potentially run it for a couple of years without showing a problem outwardly, but that doesn't make it sensible.

coffeeking - Member

Diesel is effectively oil, so not really the point. What you don't realise is the emissions you're creating, the accelerated sensor poisoning, the gumming up of injectors and valves and rings (ever popped the head off a car that had long term oil consumption?), the increased likelihood of in cyl hotspots and knock, the cat damage.

Well, it's the opposite. It actually cleans the engine. Fuel burns more uniformly. Yes, my mate did pop the head off to check and guess what it was very clean. Put it this way if he does this to his beloved Subaru Impreza then I guess my cheapo Corolla will not be harmed.

He found the information on some research papers long time ago about this technique and decided to try it out with no ill effect. Expensive though on top of the fuel price you pay.

Oh most of the engines that he is messing with are far more superior (as in sensitive) to my Corolla (rather industrial by comparison and bloody road tax is £260).

🙂

I'd like to see that research as applied to a non-drag (totally different usage) and modern engine. Burning oil does not clean engines, I can assure you!

I've had food poisoning several times, but without my medical records you'd never know and assume occasional Wimpey burgers did no harm.

Your call, been stripping and rebuilding engines for decades and seen the catastrophic sensor damage that can occur with oil burning, I'll stick with my way!

coffeeking - Member

I'd like to see that research as applied to a non-drag (totally different usage) and modern engine. Burning oil does not clean engines, I can assure you!

All the questions you asked are the same questions I put to him as I was totally skeptical about his "snake oil". Yes, I did ask about burning oil cleaning engines ... same question. I gave up the moment he started explaining and just seek assurance that he would fork the repair bill if something goes wrong. He agreed. Since then I have putting about 50ml every time I fuel up.

Yes, I am not a car nerd while he is and I trust him more than any of the mechanics out there. Been adding 2T motor cycle oil to fuel since the first day I bought my car. Engine runs quieter and smoother.

p/s:

coffeeking - Member

Your call, been stripping and rebuilding engines for decades and seen the catastrophic sensor damage that can occur with oil burning, I'll stick with my way!

Yeap, he does that too I think for nearly 30 years now. Most are Japs engines by the way.

adding a bit of 2 stroke oil to a tank of diesel is a common talking point on landrover forums

most agree it make the ford (transit) tdci engine run quieter and better, as fitted to newer defedners

Not if they are made in Sunderland

grantway - Member

Not if they are made in Sunderland

Toyota made in Sunderland? 😯

Toyota made in Sunderland?

No Nissan

2 stroke oil is designed to be burned. Engine oil is not. 2 stroke might work well, Veg oil might also work.

Hora: Yeah, seemingly endlessly going wrong. In no particular order.

Alternator failure
Power steering failure
Brake calipers seized
Leaky suspension damper
Bulbs blowing at a worryingly regular rate
Juddery steering (undiagnosed)
Drivers side window motor failure
Water leaks

That's just off the top of my head, I'm probably missing something. Now thankfully someone else's problem...

Both my car are 2003 Toyotas, MR2 & celica. Never had an issue with either. My celica (made in japan) is coming up to 100k I've done 64k of that without an issue. I don't think interiors are anywhere close to VAG's though in terms of plastic quality but they seem equally well put together from my experience with no rattles in either car yet. I like the high revvy Yamaha engine and the suspension set up. My dad's Mazda 6 ( ok it's a mondeo) hasn't missed a beat either. I've had 2 mx5s in the past which started everytime after winter hibernation one needed a new clutch and the other a set of discs by that was all.

I can only go off personal and limited experience but my ex's 206 was shit, my girlfriends 206 was shit, my mates new a3 has been in and out of the garage trying to sort an engine light on the dash. My sister has had a few golfs R32, GTi and currently a GTD 170 which have all been nice to drive but a bugger to work on. My MG was a joke and my fiat was fun but bits just dropped off.

My next car will hopefully be a GT-86 or a BRZ.

molgrips - Member

2 stroke oil is designed to be burned. Engine oil is not. 2 stroke might work well, Veg oil might also work.

I see ... 2T is designed to burn.

I learn something everyday. 😀

No veg oil for my Corolla I am afraid.

I owned W-reg Honda Accord 1.8vtec for 7 years. The most reliable model by Honda. While it looked bland, boy it cornered proper racy well compared to exOmega b3Passat mk2Golf I owned before etc. Interior was well thought out but not in the same class like VW quality wise. My accord sedan could swallow 2 medium sized mtbikes! But, I don't believe in stories like Japanese are more reliable than Euro. Big factor about reliability is previous owner, if previous owner neglected car then no matter japanese german or french it still will be a lemon.

Btw, Accord I had... Alternator fried itself, starter motor failed, steering column rack went, sunroof seized, hydraulic clutch valve went bust etc etc. Not much more different than comfier Euro cars.

I'm back with VW now, and very pleased with my choice overall.

p.s. Talking about fuel additives Millers and Archoil are the real deal. My tdi purrs with them added instead of clatters without.

Right then, this topic is right up my street.
As some may know I work as a patrol for a certain well known motoring organisation. So I have a good idea of what breaks and what doesn't.
If I was looking to buy a 14 year old car I would only consider a Japanese car. They would be your best chance of reasonable reliability.
You'll get the odd person who will pipe up and say "I've got a 15 year old Golf/405/Mondeo and it is great" but they'll be the exception. Nearly all cars by that age are money pits.
I'd be looking for an Almera, Corolla or Civic, base model and petrol (when it comes to bangernomics simplicity is king- if it hasn't got electric windows or a turbo they can't go wrong!).
They are usually dirt cheap, especially in "pensioner pale blue" as kids won't touch them- not cool.
Hope this helps,
Mike (who drives a totally reliable Mazda)

It's interesting you mention the Almera bikemike. I kept looking at them but was put off by the reported timing chain issues, which seem to be completely random, and cost fairly big money to fix.

bikemike1968 - Member

I'd be looking for an Almera, Corolla or Civic, base model and petrol (when it comes to bangernomics simplicity is king- if it hasn't got electric windows or a turbo they can't go wrong!).

In addition to the above look for one with Automatic gear (not those with steering "pedals" or tiptoptronic). With auto gear you don't even have to worry about clutch problem at all.

However, on the downside they all love downing petrol like no tomorrow but I can live with that. Wish my mate was here to help me tune it up properly. 😆

Soon I will be adding coil buffer to my jelly (standard and still working fine) like Corolla suspension coil.

2stroke oil is designed to be burned in a 2 stroke engine, which is designed to burn 2stroke oil...

coffeeking - Member

2stroke oil is designed to be burned in a 2 stroke engine, which is designed to burn 2stroke oil...

All I can suggest is to try it out for yourself then see if there is any problem. Try it on old bangers first.

Since you are a car mechanic I see no harm in you messing with engines, I would if I have all the tools with me.

Mine is 2005 Toyota Corolla 1.6 auto gear and I normally add 50ml of Castrol 2T motorbike engine oil or just normal Halfords 2T motorbike engine oil when I fuel it up to 3/4 tank full.

😀

I love Japanese cars. I've had 3 that were very good (Honda Integra Type R, Almera GTi and Suzuki Swift Sport) and one that was very bad (Mitsubishi Legnum VR4) and hopefully into another soon.

I wouldn't touch a post-Renault Nissan though (~2002 onwards).

butcher - Member
It's interesting you mention the Almera bikemike. I kept looking at them but was put off by the reported timing chain issues, which seem to be completely random, and cost fairly big money to fix

You're right, they can suffer from timing chain issues, which are expensive to fix. But most other cars at that age have timing belts- which are just as expensive to fix and more likely to fail.

Chewk . You do know when an auto gos wrong its $$$

100 quid in parts + Couple of hours work sees a clutch put in a basic car.

on bangers give me a clutch any day

I reiterate , 2 stroke goes in diesels and 2 strokes only. Do not put it in petrol.

It goes in diesel as it lubricates the pump. Landy Tdci fuel pmps are the same as transits - transit fuel pumps hate bio diesel and need all the lubrication they can get their hands on.

"You're right, they can suffer from timing chain issues, which are expensive to fix. But most other cars at that age have timing belts- which are just as expensive to fix and more likely to fail."

No they are not.

They are a service item, anyone who doesnt service their car - banger or not deserves all they get.

You also know most chains have a service interval also , most engines never used to reach the interval but more and more engines are reaching them these days ,

Land rovers v8 chain and drive cogs were designed with 100k miles in mind , having stripped down a set at 189k and seen more wear than my 6 year old singlespeed fixed commuter i was surprised it was still running in time at all.

50mm of my piss would likely have the same placebo effect on a 3/4 tank of fuel.

trail_rat - Member

Chewk . You do know when an auto gos wrong its $$$

Yes, I know they are expensive in UK but you can avoid that if you maintain it properly. i.e. changing auto gear box oil from time to time and all those consumables . Anyone that says you don't have to change the auto gear box oil has no clue about auto gear box. I intend to drive this car for a long time using it to do simple things.

trail_rat - Member

50mm of my piss would likely have the same placebo effect on a 3/4 tank of fuel.

In that case no harm but I do notice my car running quieter.

😀

With auto gear you don't even have to worry about clutch problem at all.

However, on the downside they all love downing petrol like no tomorrow

My petrol auto has a clutch and does 50mpg.

Clutch is still easier and cheaper to repair.

Seems madness to limit your self to a market of cars that are petrol hungry, rare , unpopular and due to small engines , shit to drive.

Automatic big engined motor any day but on a toy engine no thanks.( with old style autoboxes) - some of the new dual clutch stuffs pretty nice - but still not proven enough for my liking.

sbob - Member

My petrol auto has a clutch and does 50mpg.

😯 What! That much!

Mine top 36mpg .. damn! 🙁

trail_rat - Member

Automatic big engined motor any day but on a toy engine no thanks.

Bought for £5K (paid in full with no loans) with 26K+ on the clock I doubt I can ask for more. Nice to drive and low in maintenance is all I need.

Yes, I know they are expensive in UK but you can avoid that if you maintain it properly. i.e. changing auto gear box oil from time to time. Anyone that says you don't have to change the auto gear box oil has no clue about auto gear box. I intend to drive this car for a long time using it to do simple things.

As it happens I had a Japanese auto for a while that did go wrong. Completely my own fault since I didn't change the oil. But I went to change it post slippage, desperately hoping I could undo any damage, but it turns out changing the gearbox oil isn't all that easy. The gearbox retains a substantial amount of oil if you simply drain it. To do it properly you need to pay a fair bit of money to get it flushed out. Although I suppose it doesn't really matter if you do it regular enough.

What! That much!

My car is quite light, and I put good quality fuel in the fuel tank, and good quality oil in the engine.

NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

"Nice to drive "

Compared to what ? A panzer tank ? Bit like me trying to proclaim my land rovers nice to drive , its not its noise, slow and hard to change gear in but at least ive come to terms with that.

trail_rat - Member

Compared to what ? A panzer tank ? Bit like me trying to proclaim my land rovers nice to drive , its not its noise, slow and hard to change gear in but at least ive come to terms with that.

Land Rovers <= Rover is a dog (Clarkson, 20XX) 😆

A panzer tank is not far away considering I used to drive a 1967 VW Beetle (nice to drive too) and later a Daihatsu Nippa (Yes, surprise I like it for what it is) then in UK driving my driving instructor's Citroen DS3 (crikey, all those digital equipments that comes with it no wonder people think modern cars are "smart"). I am satisfied with simple car. 😆

butcher - Member

The gearbox retains a substantial amount of oil if you simply drain it. To do it properly you need to pay a fair bit of money to get it flushed out. Although I suppose it doesn't really matter if you do it regular enough.

My mate's advice is to change it whenever I change the engine oil. No need those fancy flush.

For the record, biodiesel improves lubricity rather than reducing it.

We have a 2000 Corolla estate. It's filthy inside and looks battered, but it just keeps going. No problems with it mechanically and it's been reliable over 14 scandinavian winters.

I spoke to an Estonian mechanic and he was adamant that Toyota are the most reliable. So much so, he bought both of his sons a Toyota each. If those cars can survive Estonian roads/ dirt tracks, they should be fine for the UK!

In order...

1. Rover Metro. Fell apart around me but much of that was probably my fault. Not well built though.
2. VW Sirocco GTII. Only had it a short while and don't want to talk about it, I loved that car 😳
3. VW Golf 1.8GL. Had it for around 3 years and 20,000 miles. Solid and not much went wrong.
4. Citroen BX1.9GTi. Plastic rubbish! The engine finally went pop after just about everything else had failed.
5. Subaru Forester Turbo. Rear suspension failed, lots of electrical failures, some engine failures. Not a good example.
6. Toyota RAV4. 4 years and 100,000 miles, virtually nothing went wrong and passed every MOT. Wow! Sold it to my sister and it's still going strong.
7. 63 plate VW CC GT. Had it since September and already clocked 15,000. Not a whisper of an issue. Awesome car.

So, from my experience I can summarise as follows; UK and French cars are awful, good Japanese are superb, poor ones not so, VW are on the whole extremely good and sometimes awesome. Oh, the Forester was a 2000 and the RAV4 a 2002, can't remember the others.

The Jazz is ok though? Always liked them.