[Closed] Are higher end car tyres worth the cash?

How many miles a year do you do? What kind of roads (speeds)? FWLIW, I'd always say yes, but figure there's room for debate.

Not IME, I used to buy decent tyres around £180-200ish each, rears lasted 8-10k. Switched to Nexxen's (N1000 I think...) a couple of years ago (about £100 each) and seem to have a similar wear rate and can't say I notice a change in grip (wet or dry) or noise.

Those four small contact patches are all that's keeping you on the road - buy the best you can afford!

I generally wouldn't go any lower spec than Falken/Kumho/Toyo - definitely never LingLong, Sunny, Triangle, or any of the other ditchfinder brands.

Only exception of the premium brands is Pirelli P6000s, widely regarded as being utter rubbish despite being oem on a lot of cars.

Those four small contact patches are all that's keeping you on the road - buy the best you can afford!

hear that a lot, bu never with much detail to back it up...

aside from emergency braking, why would say 5% more grip be that vital in a car used for just bumbling around?

Cool, cheers all. The car came with Michelin Primacy HP's on. Currently doing more miles than id like, probably 14k a year 60% motorway.

I'd say yes. Better tyres will give better fuel economy (as long as they are designed this way in mind, obviously more expensive off road tyres won't!) and generally have more traction and grip. I'm not worried about max cornering speeds, but like my car to stick to the road when I need to swerve around a child /other car

I used to buy Michelin, Continental etc. Fuel 'quality', tyre pressure, the engine and how it is driven seems to make more difference to the fuel economy.

I generally wouldn't go any lower spec than Falken/Kumho/Toyo

I used Toyo Proxes on a previous (higher performance) car. They performed quite well, although the side walls were relatively soft and easily damaged from driving on stony tracks (the car wasn't suited to them either though).

Yes, but with many things there is a diminishing return on the amount you spend. I think its worth getting a premium brand tyre (Michelin/Goodyear/continental) but once you start moving up the ranges within the premium brands you get little improvements for lots extra wonga.

Those four small contact patches are all that's keeping you on the road - buy the best you can afford!

hear that a lot, but never with much detail to back it up...

It's guaranteed someone will come out with that almost exact phrase on any car tyre thread online.

And also the term "ditch finders"

People seem to think that higher price guarantees better quality with car tyres, and are happy just to accept it as true.

For what it's worth, for the last 15 years I've averaged about 45,000 miles a year (all over Europe and UK in all weathers) . Pretty much all on "ditch finders"

And I've yet to find a single ditch.

Watch out for compound. Some premium/sports tyres = softer compound = more grip = quicker wear rate.

I'd say yes. Better tyres will give better fuel economy

Those four small contact patches are all that's keeping you on the road

can't have both surely. either improved grip OR improved fuel economy...

can't really have dual compound on a car tyre... or am i missing something obvious?

For what it's worth, for the last 15 years I've averaged about 45,000 miles a year (all over Europe and UK in all weathers) . Pretty much all on "ditch finders"

And I've yet to find a single ditch.

I did replace them all with Michelin, which were noticeably better, although the lessons learned probably had more of an effect 😉

Buy the best that you can afford and that has the best reviews. If you can only afford one set get a really rated set of alrounders.

I don't think you can go far wrong with alpins considering our inclemental weather.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259456/michelin_alpin_a4.html

Tyres aren't a false economy. They literally could be the difference between hitting that kerb or not. They pay for themselves IMO.

why though? as said, when most people hit a ditch they tend to have the good grace to say it was their own fault rather than the tyres just lobbed them off the road...

Drive plastic tyres swiftly on greasy or damp roads and you'd feel the squirm though.

when most people hit a ditch they tend to have the good grace to say it was their own fault rather than the tyres just lobbed them off the road...

True, its not the tyre, its crap drivers driving beyond the limits of that particular tyre.

I've used Kumho Ecsta for the past few years and found them to be quite good for performance in the wet and dry on my enthusiastically-driven estate cars. I used Toyo Proxes on a previous (higher performance) car. They performed quite well, although the side walls were relatively soft and easily damaged from driving on stony tracks (the car wasn't suited to them either though).

have also used various 'ditchfinders' on the back of mrs rocket's Fiesta ST and they've been fine. There's a marginal difference when provoked into a drift on greasy roundabouts etc but it's not like they let go dramatically

Drive plastic tyres swiftly on greasy or damp roads and you'd feel the squirm though.

indeed. but a slightly perceptible bit of squirm doesn't equal the difference between flying off the road in a ball of flames or not...

i don't mean to take short cuts on safety issues, but the standard arguments for expensive tyres just sound like hype to me.

now if i was on a superbike... things would be different. but a family car?

The car came with Michelin Primacy HP's on

That's what's on my Legacy. Circa 35k per set given the last set and the way this set is wearing. 205/55 r16 not that expensive really for the life you get - £95 quid a corner fitted IIRC.

It's not as simple as pay more = better all round. Any tyre is a compromise between wear rate and grip. (simplification but basically true). A lot of tyres have a 'tread wear rating' on them, the higher the number, the longer they last, but proportionally tend to be less grippy. It's horses for courses, are you going to drive track days or motorways?

Nick - the difference in grip (mainly in the wet) between Hawleys cheapo brand on Jo's Micra and the Uniroyal Rain Experts on the front of it now is amazing! Relatively little wheel spin now when setting off 🙂

are you really that bad a driver that you cant drive to conditions is what you need to ask your self.

how ever I do think spending a bit on quality winter tires is worth it if you have a spare set of rims - but then I live in the country in NE Scotland not the Surrey Antarctic

Autoexpress do an annual tyre test with premium and budget tyres and some of the differences between them are massive.
A good tyre is one that has a long life, wet and dry grip, shorter braking distances, little rolling resistance and road noise. Compromises have to be made or more expensive materials and construction techniques used to achieve these goals.
My car came with Nexen N6000 budget tyres fitted. Pulling out at roundabouts from a standstill was a pain as the tyres would spin with little throttle, in the wet a complete nightmare. They would understeer in bends so the traction control was constantly coming on and cutting power.
I changed these tyres soon after buying and replaced with Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta a mid budget tyre. The cars handling was transformed with excellent grip wet or dry, no accidental wheelspin or understeer, quieter and improved MPG.
These were replaced when worn with Michelin PS3, a premium tyre. They provide slightly better life, economy, grip and noise but less roll into corners. At nearly £50 a corner more than the Vredestein they aren't a massive improvement for the price but the grip has remained constant throughout the tyre wear. The Vredestein grip was reduced in the last 30%/4000 miles of tyre wear.

How much are you saving over the course of say 2-3yrs?

£200? If its a car predominantly used for town/centre driving on say a 14" rimmed Panda yes.

If you commute all year round say 15k on motorways etc wouldn't you rather have something better?

I imagine the Yanli tyre buyers all ride with Deore rear mech's and Tora forks 😉

thing is chris i bet you mainly notice it driving/wheelspinning UP walkley bank.

had damn near dead tyres on the van for a few weeks, and for general driving it was fine, but loose as hell going up the steeps in the damp...

Energy savers are worth it. They cost a bit more but last twice as long. About 50k miles for me. Or rather, they should - only done 25k so far and they are 50% worn.

can't have both surely. either improved grip OR improved fuel economy...

Yeah you can. That's what scilica does to the tyres, see energy saving tyres above.

Energy savers tend (or should be) skinner in profile and differing grip profile for rolling resistance etc etc.

You could alter or ruin any saving by not having the exact PSI for your changing passenger payload and/or not checking your pressures every week and using a correctly calibrated pump.

They don't behave predictably either.

My V6 4motion Golf came with some cheapo tyres on it, but after they wore out I changed to Michelin Pilot Sport (not at all cheap) and the difference in grip was huge. The Pilot Sports seem to last pretty well too, get 20k out of them.

Yeah you can. That's what scilica does to the tyres, see energy saving tyres above.

EVO magazine did a tyre test going back around a year.
the worst performing tyre in the wet braking from 50mph test was also the cheapest, and the car was still going at 17mph at the point the best performing had stopped.
In general terms premium tyres perform better, may not last the longest but tyres are there for grip not just longevity

[url= http://www.tyres-online.co.uk/technology/silica.asp ]Silica in tyres[/url]

Arrowspeed from Kwikfit are ditchfinders .I hadsome last winter and they had really poor grip even on damp roads .I never felt confident in the way the car handled with them on .I changed to kuhmo (sp)and it was better

on my octavia tdi i could spin the wheels with michelin primary hps in THIRD gear on a damp road. Replaced with Uniroyal rainexpert and now i can barely spin the wheels in first in similar conditions.

My advice is get some rain tyres or 4 seasons tyres of reasonable quality. Mine were about £67 a corner fully fitted at my workplace from event tyres.

Get some reviews of tyres for YOUR car from other owners and go with whatever fits your budget after shopping around.

have also used various 'ditchfinders' on the back of mrs rocket's Fiesta ST and they've been fine. There's a marginal difference when provoked into a drift on greasy roundabouts etc but it's not like they let go dramatically

I disagree

I had a Saab 9000 which had some Federal tyres fitted at the rear when I bought it. At modest (20mph) speeds, you could get full opposite lock on a damp roundabout. For sheer comedy value it was worth keeping them for a few weeks, but they weren't just extra slippy, they seemed to be hugely unpredictable into the bargain.A dab of oppo is a laugh, a full spin is less fun.

A swap to some boring Dunlops - maybe £100 each - and suddenly the Swedish express was back to it's normal boring self.

Buying the most expensive tyres you can is mostly pointless unless you're a trackday god, but decent branded tyres are definitely worth it.

It depends...

I put Michelins on my wife's car; they last upwards of 50k and are very dependable.

My car though eats tyres (RWD and 250bhp), so it has Avons. Cheaper but still grippy and work well down to the 'wire' 😉

Many years ago I put no-name tyres on a 309GTI, it turned one of the best handling hot-hatches into something akin to a Ford Anglia on cross-plys..., never again.

I've had various Brands (Goodyear,Michelin, Pirelli etc) over the years and to be honest on they are pretty much the same on a bog standard road car.

If you want to get a good performing tyre, change them before they get to the legal limit, that will have more of an effect on saftey!

Any recommendations for a good, safe in the wet, not too pricey tyre for a family 7 seater driven carefully? Not interested in yeehaa-ing round roundabouts that seems to be the thing for most of the tyre reviews that I google.

Cheers

As above really, went for cheapies on the front two on the transit, absolutely lethal in the wet, could even spin them in the dry, after 300 miles I phoned the garage and they swapped them for free!!! Always put decent tyres on the sub, last set were vred ultrac ssesantas, absolutely phenomenal tyre!! They've all gone now and I've also gone onto Avon zv5 all round. Not really pushed them hard yet but seem more than capable in the wet an dry!

I reckon it's all a balance of risk. On my commuting fiesta I use budget tyres and I drive almost entirely motorway miles and within speed limits and car limits and not yet had a snag. So I'm happy to take the potentially reduced performance offered by cheaper tyres given how I use them.

On my performance car I use medium compound Race-like tyres. Not great in the wet (but then I don't use it in the rain) but incredible in the dry and allow me to drive harder and nearer to the limits of the car (I'm no driving god). On this car I'm happy to pay more for better performance because of the way I use the car and how the tyres support this.

When I bought the car it had budget mud and snow tyres fitted (it's a Westfield so doesn't go near mud or snow) and since changing to Toyo R888s that are now fitted the difference is remarkable.

My favourites are Nokian. They do a summer tyre just named after the speed rating. So I've got Nokian V.

Funny, most of the stuff people say about the good tyres could equaly be true for my budget-ish prestivo's, regulalry gets thrown through damp corners/roundabouts a little too quick* and hardly a hint of understeer, mpg is the same as everyone else quotes and the front's will probably need changeing at 25k (and thats because the insides have worn quickly, probably bad tracking, the outside's still got 2mm to the limit), the rears appeared in the doomsday book I think, measured 7mm 25k ago, now arround 4-5mm. Only place they struggle is the hill upto my house, standing start 1in3 and lots of landrovers and old vans with leaky diesel tanks/diffs.

*I find not using the brakes does more for MPG than anything else, after all they're just wasing energy!

Do you put Halfords Bike Hut specials on your bikes? R&D costs money, and in my experience is worth it. Cost effectiveness is one thing, but handling and performance count for cars as well as bikes.

Stopping distance is where the budgets fail you, right when your need them..

TomB not sure of your budget but look at uniroyal rain sports if they fit your car around £100 each).

I put them on my estate after having yokohoma's and the feeling of safety in the wet is fantastic. No longer get the touch of nerves when you come across standing water on the motorway, they go through it like its not there and greasy wet bends are no bother at all.

Check with you cars main dealer to see what other size tyres will fit on your rims, it might give you a bit more choice of brands and models you can fit.

Do you put Halfords Bike Hut specials on your bikes? R&D costs money, and in my experience is worth it. Cost effectiveness is one thing, but handling and performance count for cars as well as bikes.

you do appreciate the difference between a vehicle with 2 wheels ridden to its (my) limit and a vehicle with 4 wheels driven to the shops?

Stopping distance is where the budgets fail you, right when your need them..

independent (non manufactrer) stats please.

doubt there's all that much in it most the time, and if there is i'd wager the softer compouds used wont give either the fuel economy or wear rate you'd ideally like.

Stopping distance is where the budgets fail you, right when your need them..
independent (non manufactrer) stats please.

Report: Budget Tyres Could Kill, But at Least They’re Quiet

http://www.tyrepress.com/News/1/22/20196.html

if there is i'd wager the softer compouds used wont give either the fuel economy or wear rate you'd ideally like.

LOL, I'll take your bet. I'd rather not endanger myself, family or others..

I can't talk for anyone else but I bought a MX5 and it came with 4x SA tyres. Boy were they lethal. Going into a damp bend you'd have over, then under then oversteer. Wierd. Then one day just driving normally the rear snapped out- not stepped out but snapped out. Binned them and fitted Goodyears alround. After that the car was beautiful.

ps. New tyres always feel better than old tyres that are past their best.

Report: Budget Tyres Could Kill, But at Least They’re Quiet

tyrepress dot come?

not exactly peer reviewed that one is it?

Those event tyres on the transit killed several pairs of my pants tracknicko!!!

[i]Event tyres...where every journey is an event[/i].

That should be their advertising strapline..

Conti sport contact have been on my cars for the last few years.
Load of grip, but they do wear quite quickly.
Seem cheap tome compared to anything biking.
I will put four new ones on soon, as lack of tread in the rain is what is most dangerous.

tracknicko - Member
Report: Budget Tyres Could Kill, But at Least They’re Quiet
tyrepress dot come?

not exactly peer reviewed that one is it?

[url= http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild-50-Tyre-Braking-Test.htm ]Tyre braking results[/url]

[url= http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Premium-VS-Budget-Tyres-Real-World-Performance.htm ]Premium Vs Budget Comparison[/url]

[url= http://tyretest.com/ ]Tyretest.com[/url]

Started in Germany for real user data/reviews.

I decided to save money a few months back by sticking some top-end Falkens on my car rather than the Continentals it came with - the difference was so noticable that I have swapped the half worn Conti's from the back to the front to get decent grip/handling back.

tyrepress dot come?

not exactly peer reviewed that one is it?

There's none as blind as those who won't see! Sources below are not peer-reviewed, true, but the information sources are reputed motoring magazines (Autocar and What Car).

The big difference seems to be wet grip, and specifically, the stopping distances. My personal experience is that there's very poor lateral grip and stability, but that's rarely tested.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Autocar-Tyre-Test-Budget-Tyre-Performance.htm

http://www.tyreblog.co.uk/2010/information-safety-risks-buying-cheap-budget-tyres-517

The video below (again, What Car data) makes the point very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_j-2W2uZ8c

This one comes about pretty much monthly. Buy decent quality cheaper tyres and you'll get the benefits of great performance at medium price. Cheap ones are death traps waiting to happen (even if you don't drive like a nut, I've had them fall apart internally and collapse) and really expensive ones don't seem to offer any benefits for the price (I've run some high end continentals that performed just as well as the cheaper ones and wore at the same rate). There's one or two exceptions to this but generally "good quality" tyre is more important than brand name. There's plenty of review sites though these need to have the chaff sorted out of them too.

Just out of (genuine) interest, how do you notice the difference in grip?

I can see how in a bike tyre you would but in a car it is extrememly rare I ever take the car to the limit of it's grip to find out how much better one tyre set would be over another.

Real user reviews are pointless though. Almost every time someone chnages old tyres for new they'll be loads quieter and better grip. It'd have to be a very discerning user to make a decent comparison, preferably a track dayer too.

I wonder how many people fit new tyres and then say hit a patch of diesel, thereby causing them to think the tyres are rubbish? Not accusing people on here specifically.

Just out of (genuine) interest, how do you notice the difference in grip?

Hard acceleration out of junctions.
Acceleration away from wet junctions while turning.
Whether the ABS gets triggered early on hard braking to roundabouts I regularly use.
Hard braking into wet roundabouts (ie. braking and cornering)
Hoofing it round roundabouts and seeing whether they drift earlier or later than expected.
[all of the above where and when safe I might add, so with good visibility, no pedestrians or other traffic on wide roads with run-off in case you get a nasty surprise, around here there's plenty of places this can be done without risking others which is of paramount importance of course]
Generally after a few hundred miles of driving I find a safe and convenient spot and test them to their limit at lower speeds (closed car park with a known surface), which gives me a reasonable estimation of how they will deal with "problems" on road at higher speeds.

Real user reviews are pointless though. Almost every time someone chnages old tyres for new they'll be loads quieter and better grip. It'd have to be a very discerning user to make a decent comparison, preferably a track dayer too.

You can generally tell that from the reviews. Discard them if they don't look sane. I've not fallen foul of this method before and generally agree with the folk I think are making a reasonable call in the review so I am willing to keep making those judgements.

Always had Pirelli or Michelin on my Leon FR and found them good, if a little quick to wear. Always put it down to it being FWD diesel so a heavy front end. Got some Hankook Ventus' on at the moment, bottom end of the pricey tyres I would normally get and they are excellent. Grip like puppy excrement to a mattress when cornering hard in wet or dry. They were about £40 a corner cheaper than the top notch stuff and potentially, better performing. Quieter too.

jonba - Member
Just out of (genuine) interest, how do you notice the difference in grip?

I can see how in a bike tyre you would but in a car it is extrememly rare I ever take the car to the limit of it's grip to find out how much better one tyre set would be over another.

With most (front wheel drive) cars, understeer will be more pronounced, stopping distances greater & wheelspin easier.

Just out of (genuine) interest, how do you notice the difference in grip?

I realised one day 3 of my tyres could do with changing as they had worn on the inside, took it to a local (but not my normal garage) the guy fitted his cheapo equvilant of what I normally buy 'Barums' they cost the same as the barums and the grip was horrendous, (I went to pull out at a junction and the front wheels started spinning) I had hardly ever spun that car in the 3 years previously, car was traded in 3 months later, Buy Kumho Barum etc and do not drive like a knob and you will be fine.

I normally buy 'Barums' they cost the same as the barums and the grip was horrendous

Holey jesus, worse than Barums - that takes some doing. Barums are bloody aweful hard-compound junk. 6 years they were on my other halfs car, they were shocking from the start and I wanted to change them but she didn't. After changing them to winter tyres during the winter she noted how much better the winter tyres were in the dry, in the summer. And this is from someone who literally never pushes the car. Nothing on earth would make me buy a barum again.

The instructor on my, er, safety camera non-optional learn-in session was insistent on decent tyres and changing well before the legal limit.

Summed up rather well below - I'm paraphrasing only a little.

"And if you can't find an extra tenner or so per tyre to have something reasonable fitted, remember that the difference for all four tyres is probably less than a tank of fuel. Drive a bit less and find the money."

this one does come up every now and then. unless you're getting the suspension system refreshed every 40k or so on your car, the ability to stop and manoeuvre is compromised, and many, many folk seem to think that this is ok, or at least happy to overlook it. by extension, spend a 'reasonable' amount on tyres if it makes you feel better, but you'd be better off driving to the conditions and paying attention. unless you're driving a powerful sportscar you'll never notice the difference in a run of the mill car unless you fit some real shockers or you have incorrect ( high ) pressures in them.
go to a decent independent tyre place, tell 'em you don't want to spend the earth, but you don't want cr4p either. you'll probably come out with something marginally more expensive than the bottom of the line, but not much more.
i saved between 80 or 100 quid a corner on my fast car by going from bridgestones to toyos, which gripped better and rode better, in all conditions. expensive does not equal better.
x7 and Sektors or Pikes BTW. 😀

wah loads of replies, cheers one and all. Will stick with the michelen's and have a google for the best lasting.

ta!

Which tyres are best for four-wheel drifts in my turbo diesel sport estate? I need predictable break-away characteristics coupled to good feel at and beyond the limit. Any suggestions? Should I stick with Barum or would I be better with a tyre I saw which just has Chinese characters on the sidewall? If the latter, how can I tell what size it is? 😐

Buy Kumho Barum etc and do not drive like a knob and you will be fine.

This is a narrow-minded conception. There will be one event, just one in your life of driving that a good quality tyre will either save you or stop you hitting another.

Plus- good wet weather performance- you'll be doing 70 on the motorway at somepoint, why not have that little bit extra in your arsenal?

Be tight on other things, not the things that make contact with your road.

Unless you ride on budget tyres for mountain biking of course.

just put a pait of toyo proxes T1R on the front of my leon FR (petrol). Had budget tyres on when I got it and I'll admit they were better than I thought they would be, but wore out fast.

Toyos seem a good hlafway house - and the tread pattern is ace which satisfys the tart in me

😆 I'm a real tart for matching tread patterns on cars 😆

havent read most of the above but im never buying budgets again.

this time last year i put 2 budgets on my fiesta (Mohawks)and 2 mid range falkens on the wifes (same model of car), shes done about 6k miles ive done about 3k and mine are nearly bald and theres a good bit of tread left on hers!

you can to the touch, feel the difference in the compound, the falkens are soft mine are like rock.

if you actually look at the cost of tyres and as said above there is only about a tenner jump from budget to half decent.

I got three new tyres on our Citroen c4 last MOT; fourth had recently been replaced. I chose budget tyres because I was on a budget. Dreadful things, noise like a WWII jeep.

Can't wait for them to wear out. At 20k+ miles a year, shouldn't take too long

I drive like an old man so exceeding their limits shouldn't happen very often

I drive like an old man so exceeding their limits shouldn't happen very often

and if you ever had anything adverse happen you'd probably over react or panic? (Understandable reaction).

Better tyres give you confidence.

Same with mountain biking.

[url= http://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/sicherheit/reifen/tests/tid-21473/adac-sommerreifentest-2011-20-meter-weniger-bremsweg-fuer-20-euro-mehr_aid_602843.html ]For those that want independant tests you can do worse than ADAC[/url]

20 metres less stopping distance for 20e is what the headline translates to.

Page 2 (Seite 2) has the results by tyre. The Conti, Michelin and Uniroyal fans will be reassued their money was well spent.

Better tyres can give you overconfidence.

Same with mountain biking.

Maybe we should have a Jedsexi for driving?

FWIW I find Uniroyal Rain Sports are excellent and they are cheaper than Michelin / Conti / Goodyear.

They have grip when you need it for scottish roads - in the wet.

The car (Leon FR) came with Goodyear Excellence which I stuck with for a while. While grippy and predictable they wore quickly and were a bit fragile - esily damaged sidewalls. I tried Falken FK452's decent in the dry okay in the wet but the wear rate was horrendous. I switched to Uniroyal Rain Sports. Good in the dry - almost as good as the Goodyear, excellent in the wet and the wear rate seems very good - well for me! £100 a corner from black circles on 225/45 R17

whilst i agree that spending a bit more on tyres can make sense,

I would just like to add, the roads are for getting from a to b on if you feel the need to race go on a trackday. A "fun" road with lots of corners could equally be seen as a road where cyclists/pedestrians/horses try and escape the wannabe racing drivers. only to find a **** coming round a blind corner at 60mph.