[Closed] Are flashing lights 'very frustrating and dangerous' for pedestrians?

I suspect she reads the Daily Wail

well they clearly irritate some pedestrians

Did she explain the "dangerous" part?

They irritate the hell out of me when I'm riding my bike! Why would you not have them on constant in a pitch black park?

In a park, yes, I can see the annoyance. Flashing lights are useful in traffic to differentiate a cyclist from a motor vehicle.

But in a pitch black park, why wouldn't you just have them on steady?

Are flashing lights 'very frustrating and dangerous' for pedestrians

depends where they're pointing and how bright they are....

a 1200 lumen strobing beacon approaching pointing directly at you leaves you pretty much blind, you *have* to look away, and if you keep looking in that direction you can't see anything behind the light*

If it's a little flashing LED pointing down or with a good cut-off then it's great as it catches they eye and identifies you as a cyclist, increasing your visibility and not hindering theirs.

* great example of this the other night as I was heading along the canal path, rider coming the other way with stupid bright light, I slowed down and shielded my eyes, glad I did as there was another cyclist behind him but about a foot further out, I had no idea they were there until we nearly collided, had I not slowed down we would have plowed right into each other. Had similar happen with walker 'hidden' by oncoming light.

Stupidly bright flashing lights might be unpleasant - dazzle you, ruin your night vision for a few moments. Bit if an overreaction on their part though.

She may have well been a douche, but I actually don't like them - it's hard to tell how fast someone is travelling and they seem a bit..daft?

Which light? In completely unlit areas a front light flashing would irritate me no end whilst riding the bike, never mind having it shone directly into my eyes.

Lights are genuinely very blinding in total darkness though. It pisses me off when people don't dip them, or leave them on any setting that isn't totally pathetic really.

Our club has an unwritten rule - only constant red while off road.

Some dog walkers seem to make up rules and laws to suit themselves, like not picking up their dogs turdies, and when and if they do throwing it in a bush or tree

like not haveing the ability to control their dogs with commands or the the use of a short lead,

like not using a long extending lead ona shared use or dessignated cycle path,

like not wearing anything reflective or haveing the dogie wear something reflective ot a small flashing led,

next time point out the above to a dogerist, theyll really appreciate someone who cares talking to them about safety, also always say hello doggie enjoying your walk, that always seems to power them up, the owners that is

Lights are genuinely very blinding in total darkness though. It pisses me off when people don't dip them, or leave them on any setting that isn't totally pathetic really.

I find this a bit tricky on my commute route. It is unlit total darkness and there are hazards to avoid so I need a decent light to see with.

When I see people approaching (cyclists or peds) then I switch it to low, but I'm aware that even that can be pretty dazzling - I do sometimes try to shade it with my hand too, but turning it off completely (or to a "pathetic" setting) would leave me effectively blind heading towards them.

I think LED lights are particularly dazzling, even on low settings, and most don't seem to have any kind of beam shaping.

As for the OP, that woman sounds like an arse but yeah flashing lights off road can be annoying.

Some dog walkers...

Is this going to be another one of those threads where we list bad things that you might have seen other people do in order to justify having a go at the original person making the complaint?

Other dog walkers doing bad things is irrelevant to her complaint, she might have been overreacting a bit, we don't know cos we weren't there but she obviously had a big enough problem with it to say something, there's certainly polite ways and rude ways of doing it though...

Should have Baxtered the dog.

When I see people approaching (cyclists or peds) then I switch it to low, but I'm aware that even that can be pretty dazzling - I do sometimes try to shade it with my hand too, but turning it off completely (or to a "pathetic" setting) would leave me effectively blind heading towards them

The trouble is, you're effectively leaving them blind coming towards you. It's a bit dog eat dog.

Though I do appreciate it if I see people switching to a less powerful beam. But I've genuinely had someone do just that before, and I've still had to come to a complete standstill because I could no longer see anything other than a massively bright light. Couldn't see the track. Not the edges of it. Nothing before the oncoming rider, and nothing after them. Not the first time I've found myself in that situation either. It's a little problematic.

I always tilt my beam down towards the ground when I see people approaching. I'm not sure there's any other way to prevent blinding them.

I aim mine down as I've dazzled other road users by accident.

Off road I aim it horizontally.

If she a fit lady, ask her to discuss it over coffee and do the wild thang'.

Just don't do it on live tv... Not PC correct according to the brigade.

Said it before, flashing lights are shit. On their own they are terrible for judging distance (handy if you are approaching them in a car) and invariably far too bright if the light is to be considered useful.

Personally I'd either have a decent light that directs the beam properly on either high or dip or a standard light plus a crap one for pointing at the ground so you can switch if necessary.

I always tilt my beam down towards the ground when I see people approaching. I'm not sure there's any other way to prevent blinding them.

I typically have my light pointed at the ground just in front of my wheel anyway - but I find LED lights aren't very directional so even then it can still be a bit dazzling.

It would be good if light manufacturers worked on beam shapes rather than lumens wars, and if they produced a [i]proper[/i] dipping headlight, rather than just reducing the output a bit.

Flashing lights are easy to spot but very hard to relate to. Judging distance and speed is very hard. Modern lights are silly bright and are not nice to look at. Careful use would reduce these sort of complaints but you will still get cretins who whinge about anything and cretins who insist on using stupidly bright lights when it affects others.

SaxonRider - Member
So is she correct?

If you value your life riding in the dark winter days then you should light up like a Xmas tree as far as I am concerned. If I cannot see while driving and then running you over like road kills will only mean increasing my "game scoring points". 10 points! Woohoo! 😆

She is absolutely wrong ... unless of course you do not value your life.

There are a lot of bellends around with obnoxiously bright badly aimed flashing lights...

konabunny - Member
There are a lot of bellends around with obnoxiously bright badly aimed flashing lights...

There are also plenty of bellends that ride with light so dim (are they trying to save battery or what?) they are challenging the exoskeleton of the cars.

Our club has an unwritten rule - only constant red while off road.

Eh? How do you see where you're going then?

If you value your life riding in the dark winter days then you should light up like a Xmas tree as far as I am concerned. If I cannot see while driving and then running you over like road kills will only mean increasing my "game scoring points".

If you are running over cyclists [b]IN THE PARK[/b] then I doubt any amount of lights are going to stop you! 😆

Slow bright blinking lights are indeed bad for pedestrians, motorists, other cyclists and the cyclists who are using them.

Flashing lights need to flicker rapidly. Some slow blinkers are so slow that you can't immediately see what direction the thing is travelling in. In complete darkness it might not be so bad, but when there are loads of lights, traffic lights and reflections all around they are a disaster for visibility.

I say this not only as a motorist but as another cyclist - your main light should be either steady or rapidly flickering, if you want to be as safe as possible.

You also should not be blinding the shit out of all other road users - it does no-one any favours. You might think you're on a crusade against the tyranny of motor cars but it also pisses off peds and cyclists.

Ride through a London park at rush hour on a cycleway if you want to see what I mean. There'll be a load of cyclists with slow blinking lights on and you (as another cyclist) won't be able to see what the hell is going on. Amedias's situation has happened to me loads.

My favoured light for urban environments is one with about 200 degree viewing angle, and I have it on a fast flickering setting.

To the OP - she may have put her point across very badly, which is inexcusable, but she does have one.

GrahamS - Member
If you are running over cyclists IN THE PARK then I doubt any amount of lights are going to stop you!

I could be dogggging ... then making a quick escape ... 😆

I don't like flashing front lights when I'm cycling. Used to get a few on the cycle path on my commute, found them disorientating and had to look away when passing, so I can understand why a pedestrian might not like them.

In the complete dark a flashing light on its own is annoying. Any person in front of you will struggle to actually look to the side of it as the repeated light blinking will pull the eye blindingly back to it. The effect is more diluted when there's other lights around, street lights and cars etc. Still they can be annoying but easier to not look at and especially if bright.

Personally I go through a huge park in the pitch black then onto a busy road for a few miles, duck onto a 4x4 track for a couple more miles before hitting a city centre. I have a constant light and very low blinking light. The tracks are smooth so I'm going pretty fast and it's 7am so quiet. But in the pitch black park and along the river I sometimes meet runners coming the other way. Their eyes have already adjusted to low light but it isn't enough light to bike with. They have no lights mostly so I'm usually glad to have a powerful light at speed to actually see them before hitting them.

Who's at fault, well honestly both of us.

I #think# I need to see ahead and they #think# my lights too bright. No win. Smile and reply if they something. Move along nothing to see here fnarr fnarr

Why would you have a flashing light on in a pitch dark park, that's just daft and annoying. I commute on the bike across a moor on a segregated cycle path and occasionally see idiots coming towards me with a very bright flashing light, it's very annoying and utterly pointless. They only thing slightly more annoying is people on the same path with flashing lights on when it's daylight. I can't see any reason for that.

Of course it is annoying and dangerous.

A bright and flashing light gives the pedestrian coming towards you very little idea of where you actually are so the chances of collision are higher.

Plus bright lights frighten dogs.

So think of others whilst on yer bike and put it on a low constant setting when approaching people.

Really are some very selfish narrow minded comments above

Why would you have a flashing light on in a pitch dark park, that's just daft and annoying. I commute on the bike across a moor on a segregated cycle path and occasionally see idiots coming towards me with a very bright flashing light, it's very annoying and utterly pointless. They only thing slightly more annoying is people on the same path with flashing lights on when it's daylight. I can't see any reason for that.

Couldn't have put it better.

Look at yourself before getting all judgmental about other people being judgmental OP.

Some common sense in the last few posts and - thankfully - some self awareness and responsibility.

OP - if you think that having a flashing light reduces the chances of being squashed, or having someone step out in front of you then keep doing it. Some folk might see it as selfish, other see it as self preservation.

Most folk seem to be obsessed with their phones, so anything that gets their attention should be a good thing.

I normally run one front light flashing, and one fixed beam. The pedestrians, joggers and dog walkers seem to have to dress like ninjas.

Decent lights have a proper beam pattern, either letterbox or even square with tapering brightness. The point is to illuminate the way a car headlight does, lighting up the road or path and providing secondary light to be seen. Pointing them up is like driving with high beam on - maybe okay if you're dong a fast night route in Glentress with no-one about, massively antisocial otherwise.

Flashing front lights are just wrong in any situation - very, very hard to judge distance and position with them.

Bike lighting is like the wild West..completely unregulated, what rules there are are barely enforced and date back to days of HP2 batteries and 3v bulbs. Anti Dazzle and dip technology needs to be built into them for everyone convenience. I think German lighting regulations better at this, but no idea if actually enforced.

I normally run one front light flashing, and one fixed beam. The pedestrians, joggers and dog walkers seem to have to dress like ninjas.

Are you suggesting all these people should be wearing high viz clothing? If you really can't see people wearing normal clothes with a normal light on you're a hazard on the road.

Can't stand flashing front lights to be honest.

I actually find the faster the flash the more irritating.

I normally run one front light flashing, and one fixed beam. The pedestrians, joggers and dog walkers seem to have to dress like ninjas.

Are you suggesting all these people should be wearing high viz clothing? If you really can't see people wearing normal clothes with a normal light on you're a hazard on the road.

I'm suggesting that when running or walking the dog in an area with absolutely no lighting in, having a small amount of reflective material or maybe even a small light on their outfit would be a benefit to those sharing those paths.

I'm rarely a hazard on the road - i prefer to cycle on the pavement 😉

Go into the park at night - prop your bike up on something - turn the light onto flash - and then go stand in front of the bike and look at it.

In such a situation, unless the lights are pitifully low-powered, they are likely to cause a problem - the pedestrian will be getting blinded and disoriented by the light, It is different from being on the road which might have street lights and will have the driver headlights on, so the huge changes in contrast between pitch black and your light won't be happening.

Even a solid light in such a situation can be a problem if too bright.

My wife rides on a footpath at one point in her journey - she wanted a more powerful light than her retro-looking thing so I got a lenzyne thing than does 200W on full. I have put it low down on her fork and pointing down so it lights up the ground but doesn't dazzle, and had to dremel the mount to let me do this.

I have had cyclists come towards me on the canal path when out for a run with huge lights on - I now take an equally powerful torch to dazzle them back if they don't point it away/cover it/dip it as I basically have to stand still whilst they approach and pass otherwise.

I'm suggesting that when running or walking the dog in an area with absolutely no lighting in, having a small amount of reflective material or maybe even a small light on their outfit would be a benefit to those sharing those paths.

Should this also apply to trees, benches, litter bins and other things that might be on the path? Maybe if you can't see well enough to avoid pedestrians, you should slow down a bit?

Got to agree with allfankledup there - if folk insist on wearing all black to walk their black lab on the far end of a black extendable lead stretched across a completely unlit cycle path* then I need a reasonably bright light to spot them.

I'd also query how they manage to scoop poop in the pitch dark.

* sadly this is not a theoretical situation round my way, though there are plenty of sensible ones who have torches and a light up collar or reflective patch on the dog.

Should this also apply to trees, benches, litter bins and other things that might be on the path?

Why on earth would you stop cycling to listen to someone mouth off at you?

No ben just the unpredictable things capable of movement - strange question [ though I have not read the thread]

So you memorise the position of every obstacle on the path?

I find it all very odd - I cycle on canal paths quite a bit, where there's little or no lighting. I have the front light set up to illuminate the ground 30ft or so in front of me, I have no problem at all with seeing and avoiding pedestrians on the paths, even when they have no lights or reflective clothing on. The ones who are a problem are the other cyclists with really bright or flashing lights.

then I need a reasonably bright light to spot them.

Which is perfectly sensible.

Welcome to the top of the travel speed pecking order

Of course pedestrians think you're a ****, just like you think the 4x4 driver's a **** when you reach the road

"bloody pedestrians; all they ever do is bimble along in their black clothes, geting in the way - and then the bastards have the cheek to get pissed off about my lights and how fast I ride past them. They'll be properly sorry the day I hit one - all because they weren't wearing a helmet and hi-viz. dozy ****ers - and they all leave dogshit lying around - and their dogs bite off kids faces - and don't get me started on the barking.

I need my lights to go as fast as I want to in the public park; if they don't like it they can **** off - they ought to be on the [s]bike path[/s] grass anyway instead of the [s]road[/s] path"

Oncoming bright flashing light on a dark path is annoying and possibly dangerous to others using the path.

When faced with this my involuntary reaction is to freeze on the spot or try and cover my eyes as I'm effectively blinded and disorientated by the oncoming slow strobe.

There are ways to tell people this, and sounds like your pedestrian may have gotten that part a little wrong. Be careful that you aren't simply miffed at their ('busybody') invasion into your world simply on account of feeling the backlash of you invading theirs. "Well I'm miffed that you're miffed!"

As for the lone suggestion that you should have sex with her. Er...weird?

scaredypants: by the same snarky token, "what is it with drivers using those bright headlights so they can whizz about the roads at ridiculous speeds exceeding 30mph eh? They should have a couple of old EverReady box lights, and if those aren't bright enough to see unlit ninja cyclists then they need to drive slower". 😀

Alternatively... we could all be sensible.

I don't hoon about on shared use paths, especially on unlit ones at night. But I'm still a little faster than someone walking a dog! And I feel I need a decent (solid) light to see by for my safety and the safety of other users. I'm aware of the possibility of dazzling folk and do what I can to avoid it by keeping the light pointed well down, switching to low power mode, and sometimes shading it with my hand.

As for the lone suggestion that you should have sex with her. Er...weird?

Perhaps that person is a Bonobo?

So you memorise the position of every obstacle on the path?

How does this relate to your question or my point?
Its pretty obvious that a moving unlit dog is more dangerous to me than a stationary inanimate object.

How does this relate to your question or my point?
Its pretty obvious that a moving unlit dog is more dangerous to me than a stationary inanimate object.

Is a black dog easier or harder to see than a black litter bin?

Both will hurt if you hit them, so the first stage is to see them. then you can take appropriate action - which, yes, will be different for the dog. But not seeing a dog and hitting it hurts just as much as not seeing a litter bin and hitting it.

Therefore, only requiring moving objects to illuminate themselves is nonsensical.

If i dont see a bin because its not in my path it wont run out in front of me and take me down.
I dont see how we can argue they both pose an equal risk to me when one cannot move and one can.
You may as well argue a dead dog is as much risk to me as an alive dog.

You may as well argue a dead dog is as much risk to me as an alive dog.

You're confusing the risk of not seeing it with the risk of not taking appropriate avoiding action. The risk of not seeing it is the same, the risk of not responding correctly is different. But first stage with any obstacle is you have to see the obstacle.

Is a black dog easier or harder to see than a black litter bin?

Hey here's a really good strategy I encountered yesterday for walking black dogs in the dark: walk your lab off the lead whilst wearing full camo gear along a leafy track in the dark, with your torch off and without any other lighting (ok, fine, whatever you want). Then, when you see an approaching cyclist - me - instead of doing something reasonable like saying "Hello!", jump into the middle of the track and turn your massive 3 XPG torch on full, pointed directly in his face, so he can't see a ****ing thing. Nice one. Cock. I hope his stupid dog craps on his bed.

WRT the OP, I do run flashing lights, but only in combination with a steady light at night. The flash alerts dopey idiots to the fact that I'm there, the steady light allows them to focus their limited mental resources on my presence for long enough to (hopefully) avoid colliding with me. I don't mind flashing lights myself, but lots of people do and it's best not to antagonise anyone when you're on a bike because some people are primed to kick off at the slightest provocation. Generally I try not to give them chance. Lights are one of the many things that push people's buttons, apparently...

But first stage with any obstacle is you have to see the obstacle.

I really do not have to see immovable inanimate objects not in my path i only need to see the movable objects that may come into my path

So you travel at such a speed that you can see them with the lighting you have.

Just like riding on the roads, it's all about give and take, and being reasonable to other users - and off road, it's cyclists who are the fast, powerful, scary vehicles and it's responsible of us to remember that.

Why on earth would you stop cycling to listen to someone mouth off at you?

That's partly the thing. I was riding (not very quickly) and she just hurled it at me as I went by. Hence the 'passive aggressive' comment I first made.

So you travel at such a speed that you can see them with the lighting you have.

i.e. 2mph in case they dart in front of you from a previously unseeable location.

But OP. Why do you think she did it? Of course, she may just be an a*** but have you considered that your light may in fact be the problem?

Have I considered that my light may be a problem? Yes, which is why I asked if she was correct. And in light of comments in here, I will try to be more conscious of the light in the future. But I was really getting at two things: the light AND her demeanour. If I have a problem with what someone is doing, I try to make an opportunity to address it constructively. I DON'T mouth off to them when they are simply going about their business.

Person irritated by something you are doing that is irritating, tells you that they are irritated by it.

Your response is accusations of "Stalinism".

What's wrong with this picture? 🙄

So you travel at such a speed that you can see them with the lighting you have

it's all about give and take, and being reasonable to other users

The alternative is to do 2 mph everywhere whist anticipating the highly unlikely such as people jumping out from behind trees as you pass.

the reasonable bit here is to illuminate oneself/dog.

The reasonable bit is, if I'm happily strolling along a path at night where I can see perfectly well because my eyes have dark adapted, a cyclist doesn't cycle into me.

The onus is on the cyclist to not cycle into me, not on me to light myself up for his convenience.

The reasonable bit is, if I'm happily strolling along a path at night where I can see perfectly well because my eyes have dark adapted, a cyclist doesn't cycle into me.

That same argument could be applied to cycling on the road at night though Ben.

Why should I light myself up just so that drivers don't drive into me - they should go slower.

The reality is that we all need to make reasonable compromises for our safety and the safety of others.

What does it say in the Highway Code?

I'll help you out. Rule 3

That same argument could be applied to cycling on the road at night though Ben.

Nope, because cycling on the road is governed by the Road Traffic Act, which specifies lighting that should be used on bicycles. Doesn't apply to paths, pavements etc.

The simple answer is to just be reasonable. Be responsible for your own riding and your own ability to not run into anything, don't blame someone else for not being illuminated.

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They appear to be walking on a road. The Highway Code refers to pedestrians on a road. That's completely different to off-road paths.

wht the highway code applies to the highway

You are right they will almost definitely say when in the dark make sure you have no way of making yourself seen as it is everyone elses responsibility to avoid you and you dont need to do a thing to ensure your own safety its just down to them - interestingly also true on the road yet they advise some PPE.

So where does it say that off road you need to be able to see where you are going. Sorry,the same principle applies. Just be reasonable. If you are going to walk on an unlit cyclepath, try to make sure they you do not actively camouflage yourself.

The parallel with attitudes of some drivers is painfully apparent on here sometimes

Just be reasonable. If you bare going to walk on an unlit cyclepath, try to make sure they you do not actively camouflage yourself.

We're not talking about actively camouflaging yourself, we're talking about being able to go for a walk in normal clothes without having to wear a dorky reflective belt in case a cyclist can't look where they're going.

..... On an unlit cyclepath where there are likely to be cyclists. Just carry a torch or whatever. Take some responsibility for your own safety.

scaredypants: by the same snarky token, "what is it with drivers using those bright headlights so they can whizz about the roads at ridiculous speeds exceeding 30mph eh? They should have a couple of old EverReady box lights, and if those aren't bright enough to see unlit ninja cyclists then they need to drive slower"

FWIW, Graham - and clearly you were being facetious but my view is that many car lights [u]are[/u] now dangerously bright - manufacturers even started to use "our lights don't become less bright when dipped" as a selling point. Great, until you hit a bump or a short ramp and dazzle all oncomong traffic with all that "down-focussed" light

I'm bang in favour of reducing 30mph limits to 20 because in urban areas hazards can't adequately be observed in the interval offered by higher speeds, IMO (and cos 20 is less killy when even that speed isn't slow enough to avoid hitting someone).

The simple answer is to just be reasonable.

Exactly - and that applies to ALL users.

don't blame someone else for not being illuminated.

Sorry to keep harking on this example but it has happened to me a couple of times:

A black extendable lead stretched across an unlit cycle path is near invisible.

If they make no effort to illuminate it or their dog hidden in the undergrowth then yes, I do blame them.
(And I also make sure I use a bright light, cover my brakes, and slow down as I pass folk).

FWIW, Graham - and clearly you were being facetious but my view is that many car lights are now dangerously bright

Yep I agree. I needed to buy a headlight bulb the other day and there were loads of "premium" brands saying they were 125% Brighter, 150% Brighter, Super Bright etc

But that's definitely an issue with bike lights too - most of which don't have road-friendly beam shaping or any proper dipped mode.

But that's definitely an issue with bike lights too - most of which don't have road-friendly beam shaping or any proper dipped mode.

*yes, YOU !**

** actually not you - I think it was you who put me onto those philips things with proper beam