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ScottChegg chill no one has claimed that there is only one choice or back pedalled. Diesels are on the way out for cars they’ve had their glory days times have moved on.
It does if you want to reduce your environmental impact.
You of all all people don’t need the “how do they make electric car battery’s “ lecture... you know that statement isn’t true. Environmentally you’re just shifting the problem.
I’m with MattOA on that front.
Make do and mend to all intents and purposes rather than buy buy buy. Might view that differently if I drove in congested areas. But I don’t. Or even drove to work. But I don’t.
Environmentally you’re just shifting the problem.
You're changing to a different problem, which can have different solutions. If battery manufacturers are bad now, they could improve. There's no way to capture and dispose of CO2 from exhaust pipes, AFAIK, and no way to create more petrol without even worse impact.
Then why advocate the change?
Diesels aren’t dead at all, they are being enhanced as much as they can to remove identified pollutants (well, we all are led to believe that) but they have a defined use in our society which fits a demographic. The main issue is they were effectively missold to increase sales into a usage profile which exposed and increased thier main disadvantage - soot & NOX.
The industry has tried to solve that problem by throwing a turbo on a small petrol engine - vis a vis you still get close to the MPG the manufacturers promised you with diesel but with reduced NOX. Even that’s a lie, as the petrol and oil consumption of these engines is way over what was advertised. Nevertheless, this is a bridge to electric.
Electric then - in the main - moves the environmental problem so solves nothing there, does help people financially (assume you start from no car, are considering a purchase and fit the demographic) but comes with a flaw - cost vs range. As an example, a Nissan Leaf would suit Mrs K perfectly for the school runs etc, but for me to be to be London-Flintshire-London overnight puts me in Tesla territory - and that comes with a cost hike at purchase.
So it remains horses for course - it’s Petrol vs Hybrid vs Electric for short to mid range, and Diesel for long range and industrial. We can only hope technology will assist us to develop an alternate fuel source that might reduce impact on our planet yet meet all our usage requirements.
Diesels aren’t dead at all, they are being enhanced as much as they can to remove identified pollutants (well, we all are led to believe that) but they have a defined use in our society which fits a demographic.
Dying. They're going to be banned in the UK by 2040 which is one reason why so many manufacturers are moving to electric.
Really? Link to evidence?
What are the global hauliers and heavy industry going to use.
All genuine questions Drac I don’t know but am keen to learn, thanks.
edit: don’t worry I googled it. It all presupposes my previous post; that we actually have a zero emissions transport offering that works for all by then. It’s a nice thought, but by no means certain.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/100276/2040-petrol-and-diesel-ban-hybrids-set-to-be-exempt
There you go.
Note the two poignant parts of that related to my prior post;
a) ...based on 98% of journeys covered by a 50 mile range - ok, what do the rest of us do?
b) ...there is still a role for diesel
c) Michael Gove made the promise 😉
I’m sure all this was done in a thread about 2 weeks ago.
Back to holiday mode for me.
Not dead for me yet. We'll be changing both our cars in the near future and at least one will be diesel.
I imagine I'll have a closer look at the electric or hybrid stuff in 3/4 years time but at the moment they're not quiet there.
I previously owned a 2.7 Diesel Jag S-Type Sport. Stunningly efficient for a big car, returning 46/48mpg without me even thinking about it.
Colossal range from one fuel stop. Don’t think a Leaf or a Zoe quite compares just yet.
Electric then – in the main – moves the environmental problem so solves nothing there,
Disagree. The energy is is generated centrally, by large rich companies operating large expensive plants, so the problem can be managed centrally more efficiently. You can also replace a coal power station with solar farms or whatever, or for CCS when it gets invented, and the consumer doesn't have to do anything.
Huge difference.
Stunningly efficient for a big car, returning 46/48mpg without me even thinking about it.
That might have been impressive 20 years ago but it really doesn't cut the mustard these days when people are quoting 80mpg figures on this thread. Sure it's a big fast car but you don't need one of those.
based on 98% of journeys covered by a 50 mile range – ok, what do the rest of us do?
Get the train?
Panic that your job will be redundant when your employer discovers Skype?
Or drive a hybrid?
Electric then – in the main – moves the environmental problem so solves nothing there
Disagree. The energy is is generated centrally, by large rich companies operating large expensive plants, so the problem can be managed centrally more efficiently. You can also replace a coal power station with solar farms or whatever, or for CCS when it gets invented, and the consumer doesn’t have to do anything.Huge difference.
You're kinda right there Molgrips, yes centrally produced energy is more efficient but it still has an environmental impact. Decentralised renewables are a good solution but we have no way of doing that at present without compromising energy security. You also have the environmental impact of producing the cars in the first place.
And, as always, the sustainability question which most are happy to ignore.
You’re kinda right there Molgrips, yes centrally produced energy is more efficient but it still has an environmental impact.
Of course - but I'm saying central management has significant benefits. For example, if we are all using electric cars in 2040 and someone suddenly invents cheap fusion power or large scale CCS, then vehicle emissions plummet, and no-one has to do anything
And, as always, the sustainability question which most are happy to ignore.
No, we really aren't. Most people considering these issues aren't so dim as to be unaware that electricity still needs generation.
Yes, new cars need producing, but since cars have a finite lifetime new cars (if we are to continue using them) will still need producing regardless of whether or not they are electric or diesel.
It's not just about generation!
Sustainability is about modal share as well, how many people in cars would be there if there was a cheap and convenient mass transit option? Do more cars need to be produced? What other powertrain options are there? That's the bit I'm talking about.
Also, fusion isn't as clean as people think it is, the inside of a tokamak is seriously irradiated and requires very careful handling and disposal when it comes to maintenance. Plus the storage and movement of tritium for fuel.
Sustainability is about modal share as well
Of course, but this is a thread about fuel not transport strategy...
There is no such thing as no environmental impact regardless.
IMO diesel, petrol, hybrid etc will still be around for a long time, as new technology will be available to justify cleaner fuel etc.
What other powertrain options are there?
You missed that rather important bit.
Everyone assumes electric is the only option. But from a sustainability perspective, even if it was possible, replacing every car with electirc would be unsustainable.
And it absolutely is about transport strategy otherwise what is the point?
IMO diesel, petrol, hybrid etc will still be around for a long time, as new technology will be available to justify cleaner fuel etc.
You're certainly right about them being around for a long time yet, sadly it comes down to government legislation to drive cleaner fuel, the absolute crap burnt in the pacific rim for example is testament to that (I remember a friend telling me the fuel destined for Indonesia, Phillippines etc. was roughly 50% actual petrol and the rest was any rubbish they could use to cut it with).
Diesels aren’t dead at all, they are being enhanced as much as they can to remove identified pollutants
Not even close.
Everyone assumes electric is the only option.
No, they really don’t it’s just currently it’s the better alternative.
Not even close.
I think he’s posting from 1999.
Environmentally you’re just shifting the problem.
To some degree yes, it was/is a concern of mine.. to some degree.
However the human race has had massive impacts on the planet over the last 100 years, and the rate we’re going (and heading) I think it’s too late personally to make much change. Purely fatalistically looking I think the human race has tipped over a point of no return. Only by mass annihilation of the human race do I believe the planet could survive, whether that’s an option open to is remains to be seen.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">My decision making process, of choice, a hybrid over a diesel was about 25% environmental based and 50% the car being a nice place to sit and 25% the car suiting my driving style.</span>
If you extrapolate those choice decisions, then yeah I could see a correlation of all 25% choice decisions being environmentally focused.. which is probably 20% more than a previous environmental choice decisions.
If you get my logic, it is early and I’m only on my first tea of the morning.
Everyone assumes electric is the only option.
No, they really don’t it’s just currently it’s the better alternative.
I think we're talking about two different things here.
Yes, at the moment, electric is the only alternative available to us in the UK. Absolutely.
What I was replying to was the general "electric is the future omgz" sentiment that is prevalent and ignores the fact that alternative, more practical and less wasteful alternatives exist. Ethanol can be put straight into an IC engine with only timing modifications necessary, no compromise on range or tech ladder to climb. Hydrogen can be used in an IC engine but requires strengthening of the engine itself due to the increased energy levels (about 1.5 times normal cost) and the only emission product is water, range is affected but it's a lot quicker to charge a tank than a battery. Then you have the fuel cell which is more efficient,has better range but higher up the tech ladder. All of these are proven technologies that could be rolled out tomorrow with the appropriate infrastructure in place.
But instead everyone seems to be getting excited about an immature technology with no appreciable advantage over the others listed. Electric loses on cost and range, the only advantage is that it has more infrastructure in place than the others but it is still nowhere as practical.
It's not a case of one or the other, it should be a case of what is the best fit according to need and the resources available.
We've had a Kia soul EV for a few months now.
I love driving it - can't wait until everything's leccy.
Would struggle to just have the one car, but it makes a great car for everything bar long journeys and huge loads. 130 to a tank.
Cheap ish on lease.
We’re in a similar boat to rone, mrs has a Nissan Leaf that does all the short journeys and her work commute. I cycle to work and my petrol yeti mostly sits on the drive only getting used for longer journeys or hauling bikes. Hopefully going to fit solar panels and a small wind turbine to the house eventually. Work is all diesel trucks but can see the tech developing to start replacing those in the not to distant future.
Some interesting results from the new WLTP
https://www.petrolprices.com/news/clean-diesels-arent-actually-clean-according-to-which/
I'm pleased my diesel is in the top cleanest, but as per the commnets they should have also included petrol engines in the sample to compare those.
That might have been impressive 20 years ago but it really doesn’t cut the mustard these days when people are quoting 80mpg figures on this thread. Sure it’s a big fast car but you don’t need one of those.
People may be quoting 80mpg, but how many cars actually deliver that sort of efficiency in day-to-day driving? Give me examples of petrol and diesel, please.
I said people are quoting it. Drac in this case:
Long runs in hybrid mode I’m getting upward of 80mpg with my Golf GTE.
I get 60-65 from two 12 year old decent sized cars on long runs.
This is an interesting development in IC engines, a cylinder head with fully electronic valve management, the valves are completely de-coupled from any mechanical cam drive, opening up all sorts of trick engine management possibilities, like going from 4- to 2-stroke for extra power for accelerating, and 12-stroke on steady motorway cruising, alternating which cylinders are firing, while keeping optimal cylinder temperature and lubrication. And it’s a British development.
https://newatlas.com/camcon-digital-iva-valve-system/55827/
I might be thinking to far ahead here but for the new clean air policies popping up a lot in the cities will add to the death of diesels,
They’re in the consultation process in Cardiff at the moment, recommendations are due to be set in September, Leeds, Reading, Oxford all seem to be reviewing strategies
No idea as yet what they’ll plan in Cardiff but I’d see commercial drivers being hit, and the non-commercial after – It’ll depend on public transport infrastructure (which is pretty poor atm)
I’d be doing diesel miles if I commute by car but I'd not be keen on paying daily to drive it into work, things like this have put me off buying diesels until it’s come out in the wash.
Plus I’d not want to be stuck with one locally trying to sell it at a large discount
I’ve already mentioned my Hybrid is currently on 63.2mpg from new (that’s not a trip reset, that’s the from first mile to now @14k)
80mpg is unachievable in the real world IMO, and is only being called out as a target for the reason some people see 80mpg for a small amount of time during thier journeys... and fail to take the journey mpg into consideration.
I am of the opinion Diesel has its place in society, it is effective and cheaper to manufacture and the political Hoo-Haaa over it is purely for political gain and using spurious tests to “proove” the political statement.
Whichever way you look at it, for the foreseeable future diesel vehicles will become cheaper to buy and that means more people will buy them.
'Clean’ diesels aren’t actually clean, according to Which?
Is that a stealth Dailymash article? FFS
This is an interesting development in IC engines, a cylinder head with fully electronic valve management, the valves are completely de-coupled from any mechanical cam drive, opening up all sorts of trick engine management possibilities
Meh, Koenigsegg were looking at that about 10 years ago and the marine industry did it 20 years ago. It's a solenoid and a bit of management software, quite frankly it's ridiulous that it's taken this long, even more so that 20 years later it's still considered "innovative".
I might be thinking to far ahead here but for the new clean air policies popping up a lot in the cities will add to the death of diesels
Newsflash: diesels were never suited to city driving in the first place and only a small amount of this country is actually urban.
No idea as yet what they’ll plan in Cardiff but I’d see commercial drivers being hit
So, what, is the plan to just abandon the city centre and move everything out to periphery retail parks?
Newsflash: diesels were never suited to city driving in the first place and only a small amount of this country is actually urban.
They suit folk who have a 20 - 30 mile commute in from surrounding valleys to a job in a city center?
So, what, is the plan to just abandon the city centre and move everything out to periphery retail parks?
Potentially charging older diesel taxi's, buses, courier trucks working in the city center i'd imagine....
It may come to nothing in Cardiff but a number Cities are developing plans to reduce air pollution at the moment, Bristol, Leeds, Brum etc.
The main issue is they were effectively missold to increase sales into a usage profile which exposed and increased thier main disadvantage – soot & NOX.
Diesels became popular because the manufacturers were able to make diesel cars with fantastic fuel economy that were also reasonably refined and powerful, with a likeable power curve. That is all. Getting a hundred or more quid off your VED was the icing on the cake. Memories of diesel reliability probably did not harm to their desirability.
The only thing doing for diesel popularity now is the fear of buying a car and then further down the line not being able to drive it into certain urban areas, nor being able to sell it on at a reasonable return in order to buy a car that you can drive into those areas.
The above is what is slowing the car market right now - uncertainty as to which way to jump.
Very few buyers had any interest in greenhouse gases or particulates or any other "environmental" factors when they bought those diesels, and the low VED is hardly a major factor compared to the fuel cost savings.
Diesels became popular because the manufacturers were able to make diesel cars with fantastic fuel economy that were also reasonably refined and powerful, with a likeable power curve. That is all.
Rubbish, you only need to look at how "unreliable" they became when people were driving them outside of the way they were intended and started sticking EGR's and clogging DPF's. You are parroting the guff the salesmen spouted whilst missing out the bit about needing to be driven long distances to make all that work economically.
Very few buyers had any interest in greenhouse gases or particulates or any other “environmental” factors when they bought those diesels, and the low VED is hardly a major factor compared to the fuel cost savings.
Oh really?
They must have really missed the mark with that one.
Very few buyers had any interest in greenhouse gases or particulates or any other “environmental” factors when they bought those diesels, and the low VED is hardly a major factor compared to the fuel cost savings.
Business customers form a significant percentage of new car sales and have a pretty obvious interest in low CO2, given that it is directly linked to their tax bill.
Nope not quoting it as that would be silly.
Just home from the West Coast of Scotland a proper big run with big hills, A, B and Motorway so fairly mixed drive. It’s dropped the average mostly because of the motorway but it’s still returned what my diesel version did doing the same journey.
6 hours driving 🤪👀
Nutter.
So, Drac, did you start off fully charged and run they battery down, or what?
Full hybrid mode all the way, there were 4 of us in the car and a boot rammed full.
The charge ran out after about halfway.
Meh, Koenigsegg were looking at that about 10 years ago and the marine industry did it 20 years ago. It’s a solenoid and a bit of management software, quite frankly it’s ridiulous that it’s taken this long, even more so that 20 years later it’s still considered “innovative”.
Maybe if you’d bothered to read the article, you might have seen the bit where they make similar points, the reason it’s taken this long is the lack of available processing power in cars to actually make the system function.
There might be a rather neat retro-styled EV estate car in the not too distant future, and it’ll probably be a bit cheaper than a Tesla 3...
Maybe if you’d bothered to read the article, you might have seen the bit where they make similar points, the reason it’s taken this long is the lack of available processing power in cars to actually make the system function.
And how does that change what I said? It IS ridiculous and it's not exactly a new concept. Sure, the price point for a small company to push development has dropped but last I checked economies of scale were still a thing. Why has a major manufacturer not called up Bosch and said hey, can you build us an ECU that does this? We need Xthousand units for our flagship model scaling to Xmillion as it trickles down in the next few years. I've literally been saying camshaftless engines are the future since I learned about them 13odd years ago. Still waiting.
BTW if you're going to get arsey about whether I read the article or not they never said it was a lack of available processing power, it was a lack of affordable processing bandwidth. Back to economies of scale. Read it indeed.
Being always skeptical of these "European laws" which the UK seems to adhere to but other Europeans treat much more elastically, plus also my tendancy to believe the UK is more a political dictatiorship than a democracy these days, I took it upon myself to.spark up this debate here in Spain.
They don't get our view of diesels with the exception of city pollution although they won't agree that diesels are only cause - its all combustion engines.
Over here it's all about long / short journeys and the price of the fuel involved. Cars are viewed with less materialism than the UK. However the real Crux is the buying cycle. They don't understand our propensity to buy cars every 3 years . This is because the Spanish system rewards a new car purchase with a significant discount if you are trading a >10yo car, Most car owners then own a car which is 0-10 years old. As the second hand car market is even more of a pirate industry than ours, there's a steady stream of euro boxes moving through the market .
In the main, Cars are owned and maintained for 10 years regardless of fuel, mileage, condition, make or model. They are an adequate tool for the job, until an opportunity for a new one appears . Non one GAS about electric until is becomes a viable buying proposition, becuase public transport is more viable in cities . If diesels are gone by 2040, they shrug thier shoulders as they'll just see what the buying option in year 10, which could have changed a lot by then - who knows.
It makes the flagellation and comparison of diesel owners by some in here look ridiculous . We should all be buying and maintaining the car we consider right for the Job and getting on with it, not wasting our time recycling newer vehicles whilst bending our selves backward to argue with each other about the changing whims of our political economy and how that is based on todays decision.
I have a recently purchased a midmsized diesel estate . Assuming I continue my job and bike racing hobby until 60, I have another 14 years of adequate ownership of this vehicle - now where near the current 2040 deadline . It'll be a 15yo car with a calculated 150k miles on it in 2032. At that point I'll consider my option, but why stress about It now?
It makes for an interesting comparison .
Not sure we are actually stressing, are we? I'm.just interested in tech and the social and environmental side of it.
It’s a good debate, but we do keep going around in circles every month or so with a new thread appearing and us lot saying the same thing over and over.
Anyone see the eTron vid on YouTube via carwow at pikes peak ?
Worth 10mins of your time..
Did you ever get that RS6 then or what?
I think some people are Molgrips, either by damning others or overwhelmingly promoting electric vehicles .
Bikebouy was right earlier - YMMV considers what's right for you at the time . No need to.convince others, or feel pressure from others opinion and prediction to make your decision - and but that I mean STW in equal measure with Theresa Mays government.
Ok as an update and to give a rough idea I had to refuel yesterday, first time since leaving Fort William 10 days previously. Here's the results for that tank full.
Excuse the dust and finger prints. 😂
And you haven't topped up the leccy in that time?
What are the figures on the right?
In the main, Cars are owned and maintained for 10 years regardless of fuel, mileage, condition, make or model.
IME, once you get into the provinces this is what happens here too. 😉 looking out my window over the car park here I'd say the majority of cars are 5-10 yrs old
IME, once you get into the provinces this is what happens here too.
Hurray, I live in the provinces.
I have a diesel. It has a manual gearbox. It's not dead and I don't expect it to be in the next 10 years.
In the main, Cars are owned and maintained for 10 years regardless of fuel, mileage, condition, make or model.
IME, once you get into the provinces this is what happens here too. looking out my window over the car park here I’d say the majority of cars are 5-10 yrs old
This is surely the complete opposite. Implying your work colleagues/neighbours are within a socioeconmic group that buys 5 year old cars and keeps them for 5 years. (which is exactly what i do). Kryton's Spanish friends would see an average distribution over new to 10 years old.
And you haven’t topped up the leccy in that time?
What are the figures on the right?
Errr! Of course have that’s the point of hybrid what a silly question.
Current range for each fuel.
Of course have that’s the point of hybrid what a silly question
Given the car is capable of running both with and without being topped up in any given scenario, it's not a silly question at all. 76 miles per gallon of petrol isn't a useful stat when it's not the only fuel being used. I'm assuming then from those numbers that to travel 573 miles you've used 34.0l of petrol and 59.7kWh, is that right?
At 2.3kg CO2 per litre of petrol and about 300g/kWh of leccy (current UK generation mix) that means Drac's trip produced about 96kg of CO2 directly from the car. If it were petrol alone that would be equivalent to about 61mpg in CO2 terms. Which is interesting, similar to what I might get from my non plug-in hybrid on long trips, but I suspect I'd get a bit less perhaps depending on roads and load. If the car were diesel, that would be equivalent to doing about 72mpg.
Molgrips it’s a hybrid of course it uses more than one fuel to get the results.
Not sure it shows total Kwh used but I’ll have a look on car net. It costs me £1 to charge from flat at home, free at wife’s work and pretty much everywhere else I charge v
Ah that’s where you’re going. My electric comes from a supplier using 100% renewable.
Ok as an update and to give a rough idea I had to refuel yesterday, first time since leaving Fort William 10 days previously. Here’s the results for that tank full.
When you say 'tank full' - how much fuel did it take? Did you brim it?
573 miles at 76.6mpg implies a 34 litre tank assuming it was running on fumes when you got to the petrol station.
The in car computer numbers can be quite a way off - my diesel Ibiza regularly tells me it is averaging >60mpg from the tank, but it's a 10 gallon tank & is always empty around 520-540 miles.....so it's not doing >60mpg.
Molgrips it’s a hybrid of course it uses more than one fuel to get the results
Only if you put more than one fuel in it... Which you don't have to do, hence the question.
Just tried to check my calcs with a spreadsheet and got 48mpg equiv based on CO2, so I have no idea.
573 miles at 76.6mpg implies a 34 litre tank assuming it was running on fumes when you got to the petrol station.
Yes it was full.
The in car computer numbers can be quite a way off – my diesel Ibiza regularly tells me it is averaging >60mpg from the tank, but it’s a 10 gallon tank & is always empty around 520-540 miles…..so it’s not doing >60mpg.
Can be these aren't though.
Only if you put more than one fuel in it… Which you don’t have to do, hence the question.
Yeah hence why it's a silly question as no idea why you would think I hadn't used both.
To amuse you. Outward journey yesterday using both was 257mpg return using petrol was 54.3mpg.
Yes it was full.
But how much did it take to fill it?
i.e. if the car is telling you it did 76.6 mpg and 573 miles, but then took 38 litres, it didn't actually do 76.6mpg.
My electric comes from a supplier using 100% renewable.
Of course it does. Along a special ringfenced cable.
But how much did it take to fill it?
i.e. if the car is telling you it did 76.6 mpg and 573 miles, but then took 38 litres, it didn’t actually do 76.6mpg.
It 10 days ago I've no idea down to the last few 100mls. 🙄
Of course it does. Along a special ringfenced cable.
That took longer than I thought.
no idea why you would think I hadn’t used both
You may not have had the opportunity.
You may not have had the opportunity.
In 10 days. 😂🤷🏻♂️
Cool stats Drac.
I love this kinda thing.
It 10 days ago I’ve no idea down to the last few 100mls.
Fair enough. Given that you seem quite interested/knowledgeable about how efficient your car is, I didn't think it was unreasonable that you might have known how much fuel you stuck in it.
Not trying to be a fastidious pain in the arse or anything, but if you don't know how much fuel you are sticking in, how do you know
Can be these aren’t though.
Genuine question....The easiest way to check is to brim the tank & compare how much the car says you done - X miles at Y mpg gives me Z litres of fuel, but I've just stuck in Z+5 so the computer can't be correct.
In your photo above, the distance driven & mpg gives you a fill-up quantity of 34 litres. But, if you had actually filled up with 38 litres (for example) then the mpg wouldn't be 76.6mpg; it would be a real figure of 68.5mpg, which is still bloody impressive but over 8mpg less than the computer is telling you your getting.
It's kind of irrelevant anyhow as you don't know how much fuel you have put in & know that the computer is bang-on correct.
I only bought it up because quite often when I hear people talk about how many mpg's their car does, they are only referring to the number that the car tells them & when they actually do the calculation themselves it turns out to be quite a bit less.
I’d originally planned on looking at a new-ish car next May, just before the MOT on my Octavia, by which time it would be 17yo. Unfortunately that situation has changed because my car has been written off. Another driver, turning right on a roundabout in front of me changed her mind, swerved left and tried to barge in front of me at the exit, smashing my front wing and part of the door. It’s not economic to repair, so I have to find a new car soon, before I have to hand back the loan car. Which is a diesel Insignia, and I’m loving it. I was in two minds about staying with diesel, because of the limited mileage I was doing. However, my mileage has likely tripled, and fuel economy is now more important than it was, so it’s almost certain I’ll be sticking with it. Possibly a slightly smaller capacity in a smaller car, but I don’t think petrol will give me the economy I require, unless I drive like a molgrips... 😉
I had the Octavia for around thirteen years, the next one will be kept for at least as long, all things being equal. By which time I’ll be in my late 70’s!