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On holidays with wife and boys - 4 & 5. It is quite frankly hellish, wonder why we've bothered. We are away 11 days into a 3 week trip to family holiday home the know well, so that shouldn't be a problem.
They are just unmitigated ****s at moment, meaning we are stressed to eyeballs and at wits end.
Please tell me its normal and eventually ends? We are just so frazzled, wondering why bother go away ?♂️
A mate today suggested that children reach their peak aged 8. Before that they require too much maintenance and afterwards are frankly difficult. YMMV.
We have the same 6 & 3... Little s**ts fight over who looks out what window then they do something that reminds you that you do love them, sometimes.
Nearly there then, best book my liver transplant now, as its going to take a lot of alcohol.
Suspect it's relatively normal, just nobody talks about it, so is a bit despairing, even considering changing ferry be home sooner.
In short, yes.
But things change, and they could be unsettled from routine even if they know the place. They're still young enough to react differently to the same thing. Just try and stay calm and don't 'pick up the rope' for a tug of war when things get shouty.
I've a 4 and 6 year old, and I get double screamy crying when they argue who will open the door first some mornings. It's infuriating but you'll find a way.
We had some, quite frankly, shite holidays when the kids were little. Same shit different place but with the added bonus they know what’s going on is ‘special’ which winds them up more.
Don’t expect too much from them, or yourselves, and try and just enjoy some bits. If you have to park them infront of the telly for a bit then don’t beat yourselves up.
It gets better!
Take them to a big beach and let them run it off. Short of letting them drown, ignore them diligently.
They don't really have much capacity for cosidering others' perspectives or feelings, so yes I suppose they are all...
If it was me (esp if it was the family home so no sunk costs of bookings etc) I'd be telling them that if things don't improve then you ARE coming home early. You'd have to mean it though
Thanks all, good to hear its (relatively) normal. We try start every day fresh, but by time fought over breakfast for about an hour start losing will to live 🙂
I’m not sure that 5 and 4 are old enough to understand abstract consequences like that?
Sorry to be different but my sons were both pretty blummin' good. 5 years different so generally not that involved in each other's interests. Our holidays at that time were very outdoors oriented; Dordogne, Iceland, Eryri, Iceland, Auvergne, Scottish and local bothy trips etc. Each boy had his jobs to do for the team. Biggest argument (they were very rare indeed) was over the washing up if there was limited hot water.
No complaints here at all. Looks like either I was lucky or I took the advice re: alcohol, above.
But I will confirm that other people's children are as you describe.
My older two, the girls, almost 9 and 7, fight a lot but the older one is much better. She's always been calmer but I think she's starting to get more grown up. That just leaves the almost 7yo to then focus on fighting with her younger brother, 4. There's a pattern isn't there. I'm hoping another 3 years and maybe things will be calming down nicely. PLEASE!!
Ours are 4 and 1.
Looking forward to some awesome family holidays based on the above.
The wee one has just started to grab the bigger ones toys. There are clearly some meltdowns coming out way!
Sorry to be different but my sons were both pretty blummin’ good
SHUUUUUTTTTTUUUYPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oops, ?
Currently on holiday in north Wales with 5&7yo. Watching all the scenery go by the car window without my bike, feels like torture! Consequences kind of work but more often just stoke the raging inferno further. Difficult to know when to clamp down and when to let it go.
My kids were/are great*, everyone elses though are ****s!
*Ok mine can definitely be ****s as well!!
No need @Ambrose no need . To be fair, if can get the older doing jobs he's better - thry just feed off each other and spiral so quick you can't catch it sometimes.
Same @sirromj - try to let it go as much as possible, but they just ramp up so quick and are on hair triggers. Also have bike(s) with me but no joy yet.
Can laugh about it now but the older one trying to pummel the younger with his fists because the elder scratched himself on a thistle. Yes shits confirmed!
Remember just the physical effort required of carrying all the requisite shite, combined with heat, tired over excited kids, fraught missus and just thinking "why the **** am I doing this?" Genuinely best holiday with kids was Alnmouth, Northumberland. Massive, shallow beach, park, pub all within 100yds of cottage, less than 2 hours drive. (Comparative) Bliss
We had three under 4.
It was blooming hard work.
But I can't say they fought constantly or disrupted that much. They tag teamed it more - always one needing something. The worst bit was the eldest didn't sleep for more than two hours until he was nearly 4....
Behaviour is the way a child communicates when they don't have the words. And of course that that age they struggle with self regulation as it's not a developed skill.
All our holidays were outdoory ones. We treated them like dogs - exercises twice a day. My biggest stress memory was all the kit and clothes and how long it took to faff at times.
So no, I'm not buying the kids are horrid deliberately. And no I'm not calling them rude sweaty things either. They're just kids.
Mine are still shits at 35 and 33 but then look at their dad
Yeah you’re ****ed for another 12 years yet at least! Actually mine were mint til around 10 so either yours are peaking early or they’re truly horrid.
sorry.
@matt_outandabout I don't think it's deliberate or malicious, this thread is more a need to offload.
Younger has some development delays which add challenges, medicine to sleep too. We just also need keep reminding ourselves, we can't expect do as much as we hoped/ did pre-kids when away here, easy to forget when browbeaten and tired.
We are just loving the challenge trying to decipher what they are trying to communicate. It's certainly not a language I'm getting the hang of just now.
All kids are arseholes. Your typical parent is happy to declare every other child on the planet is an arsehole. They are happy to declare their own offspring are arseholes. But if you dare to suggest their child is in fact an arsehole, or even agree with them when they say they are an arsehole, then apparently you are the arsehole.
Any arguments about who does what first would result in a rota. Kid A does it mon wed fri sun, kid B tue thu sat, then they swap for next week.
“Let them run it off”
100% this ^^^
It does get easier.
Stick to some semblance of a routine for bedtime, they still need sleep.
Best of luck.
Mine was great when he was that age, and my 3 yo has been fantastic on the holidays this year.
Pls excuse me, I've had a quite alot to drink, but the only time I've had a problem is when I have parented poorly.
Maybe your expectations are too great, and you're creating stress when a more chilled reaction would engender better behaviour.
Most kids are ok, I tend to get on well with 4-5 year olds as we have a similar sense of humour. Year 8 kids should be put in a pit for a tear (or sent on walkabout), but other than that they're good.
Just do whatever they want all the time and you should be golden.
Ahole kids you say,I blame the parents ( winky/lolz emoji)
There's plenty of self-flaggelation once they're asleep amd parenting fails to re-live.
Just needed a whinge, going grab a beer, and begin anew tomorrow.
Younger has some development delays which add challenges, medicine to sleep too.
That's familiar, one of ours has those issues too.
He's now 21 and still waiting full assessment of his challenges, probably autism.
🙁
Ha you'd never guess we were deep into the school holidays!
Kid free here, but wholeheartedly agree with the notion that all kids are *****
I was a teacher for 18 years, no idea how I managed it! OP we're fast becoming the only kid free couple out of all of our friends......holidays being worse that just staying at home seems to be a recurring theme amongst them all!
Has anyone blamed the parents yet?
Apparently I was a pretty bad toddler. Once I got past that I was fine and a very good kid.
Unfortunately that didn't stop my parents holding those initial years against me since and constantly bringing it up, criticising me for it and punishing me for it.
Please don't do that to your kids
Make sure the activates are relentless, physically demanding and their little feet don't touch the ground to meal and bed times!
Ours were regularly right little shits on holiday. Like, to the extent they nearly ruined several with their constant bickering and obtuseness.
Lack of structure (boredom) was the problem I reckon.
As above, knacker them out by any means possible!
Also as above don't beat yourself up if you need an easy exit (telly/games console)
Sometimes they need splitting up also, with ours, the downward spiral was definitely worse with them both involved
Sometimes they need splitting up also, with ours, the downward spiral was definitely worse with them both involved
My nieces are much better now (aged 10 & 8) but for a few years the younger one was glued to the elder and they'd move around the house as a duo, bickering.
Whatever the elder did, the younger would copy and you could guarantee that if they were sitting there doing a colouring book, the elder would pick up a pen and the younger would immediately be "I was just about to use that, I want that one, WWAAAAAAHHHHH!" and try to snatch it off her.
Pointing out that there were 100 other pens on the table didn't help...
In the end, my sister and BiL would take them off for separate activities.
0xytocin. preventing infanticide since we fell out of the trees in Africa
@crazy-legs we do that, took elder for a cafe bike ride yesterday and he was almost human. We sometimes feed them in separate rooms to try and reduce the mealtime angst 🙂
We regularly get the described I was just using that situation. When they grow up I may go work for the UN, sure my negotiation skills will come in useful.
Holidays with kids are about keeping everyone happy and it's a nightmare.
When ours were little, eldest wanted a steam train ride, youngest wanted a cafe and play area at the end of it. Bedtime routine stayed similar. No huge dramas, just same hard work in a different location.
Currently at the Fringe with youngest, who is now 17. Show, cafe, show, book shop, show, cafe. Definitely better.
Good points here about children needing stimulating activity, just when parents might want to do very little/slow down, about constant physical activity outdoors and about splitting siblings regularly...
I remember hearing the head of a large youth work organisation, that delivered hundreds of residential activity weeks, commenting that he and his wife used to plan family holidays well in advance with a timetable for the week, with wet weather alternatives. He reflected that while it probably sounded a bit ‘anal’, they’d discovered the alternative was to have to ad lib it, which was far more stressful and tiring.
Our boys 5 & 8 have been an absolute nightmare this summer. The fighting, sand throwing, general bickering backchat. We all are squeezed into a small van for 4 weeks so it’s 90% our fault I’m sure.
It doesn’t help that the all the French kids around us are impeccably behaved.
Consequences are important, cancel the holiday and go home, maybe it's what they wanted all along though! Master manipulators kids, glad I skipped them.
What you need is other kids. Which will be easier once they are older
lakes there was always one other family with kids the same age
Once we started camping in the Scillies it was suddenly easy. Imogen would rock up at our tent at 9:00, I’d say “shoes on off the campsite and don’t go in the sea without an adult”. They then appear 4 times a day to be taken for swims and food.
Taking my niece who was between our 2 in age was easier than just the 2 of them
I find that most stresses with kids.involve getting them to adhere to routines: bedtime, getting dressed, leaving the house at x time. On holiday you don't need those routines, even if it means that the day out you planned ends up shorter or not happening just take it in your stride and the holiday will be much more relaxing.
Screen time for them and alcohol for you helps too.
Are you somewhere with a kids club? Our boys are 13 months apart, when they were the age yours are we went to your typical family oriented all inclusive type places. Not because we wanted to, but because life was so much easier and fun for the kids.
Meals - chicken nuggets, salmon flakes, grapes, and chocolate fountain all on the same plate? Fill yer boots!
Mates - Neither of them ever wanted to go to kids club but by lunch on the first day they didn't want to leave. Made lots of friends, and wanted to play with them after club too.
Missus - The wife and I got to relax and spend some time together, as well as meet other parents in the same situation. Evenings generally meant kids all running round together and/or watching a show of some kind, while parents loaded up on whatever local booze was available.
Once we stopped beating ourselves up for not being together 24x7 everyone relaxed and had a great time.
What's wrong with you all I absolutely loved going on holiday with my boys at that age & that was just me & 3 boys, usually camping* near a beach & having no end of fun.
* I'd worked out it was cheaper to camp & eat out every day rather than pay for a holiday home where I'd still be doing all the cooking and cleaning.
Admittedly the eldest did go a bit Kevin & Perry in his teens ?
@tonyd - funnily enough we were discussing something like that last night. Think we going try next year, w might even get a break!
We live England and sort of need come home/ ireland to see aging family for holidays, more constrained timings now eldest in school. But means limits support/ package trips activities.
@dickyboy I'm genuinely pleased you had such an awesome time, I'll have a think and get back to you once I figure out what's wrong with me and my current situation, cheers.
They're not all little shits, but they all have the capacity. As others have said there's a sweet spot about 6-8 where they're self starting enough to be trusted to do stuff by themselves without ensuing death, but still up for adventures, and haven't yet realised that everything that parents do is by definition; cringe.
Holidays need to be structured with wee ones. Even if that's "eat your breakfast and you can have ten minutes in the pool". But yeah, the beach needs kites and shovels and buckets, trips to castles need some imagination and maybe plastic swords, and so on. I always tried to do at least one "wow" thing, go-carts, indoor climbing. boat trips, all that sort of stuff. Tired them out and gave them a memory.
Do NOT knacker them out, knackered bickering siblings is a hell that nobody needs to experience.
I appreciate I'm only seeing this from the view of my nieces but this is very true. When they were tired they got unbelievably cranky, they were too tired to function properly but didn't understand why this was and they were too tired to even go to sleep - they'd still be hyper from whatever they'd been doing but now tired and often hungry with it as well so they just became little terrors.
Mine are 23 and 21 now - I just smile knowingly when I see the meltdowns on holiday.
Do NOT knacker them out, knackered bickering siblings is a hell that nobody needs to experience.
Nah, need to time it.
We seem to have a 25-30 minute window between being knackered and ready to relax/go to bed and TOO knackered and absolute little turds. Have the same with my GFs daughter.
But generally, mine aren't arseholes anymore, had a few melt downs over the years, but only two or three on a weeks holiday. None at all now, or for the last few years, (since they were 6-7 ish)
We took ours to Disneyland when they were 7,5 & 2. I was knackered from the drive down from Yorkshire and a crap sleep in some run down hotel nearby the night before. They were fully wound up with excitement and over stimulated and acting like ungrateful little brats whilst I wondered where all the magic and happiness was. But then I saw the greatest thing ever - another dad losing his shit with his kids. The confirmation that it wasn't just me was a huge weight off my shoulders. Somehow that triggered me in to chilling out and letting kids be kids and from then on the rest of the stay seemed so much easier.
8 years later and we've recently been camping. Normally I am up at least an hour before everyone else (they all sleep in whilst camping) and that is my time to walk the dog and then sit and chill with a morning coffee and watch the world go by with the dog chilling at my feet. For some reason this time they all decided to get up at the same time on 3 out of 4 mornings just to mess with me and not allow me to relax. I swear they do it on purpose.
Sorry to be different but my sons were both pretty blummin’ good.
the fact you’re speaking in the past tense suggests some years have passed since. Which helps confirm my suspicion that the PTSD of parenting, combined with the alcohol levels required (see first reply), have wiped your memory and contributed to the societal conspiracy to hide the fact that all kids are arseholes to their parents.
having said that my two are currently merrily riding around a pump track whilst I sit and relax which is one of those lovely moments. Until I just remembered how strongly they insisted I’m not allowed to bring my bike as I’ll get in their way. Arseholes.
totally recognise OPs situation. I haven’t read the whole thread but agree with the suggestions to just back off. And that starts at breakfast. Just don’t ask them to do anything. You’re on holiday. They’ll come for food when they’re hungry. Sod brushing their teeth if that’s gonna start a war. Plan nothing for the day. You need a reset to get out of the death spiral of annoyed parents who no longer have any patience to deal with annoyed/tired kids.
There are many points made above that we recognise in our kids (the advantages of lots of structured activity, the benefits of splitting them up etc). Ours are 9 and 12, one diagnosed with autism, the other with many behavioural patterns that suggest he might be neurodivergent. We’re currently in NW Scotland and the youngest it struggling with pain in his knee (a condition diagnosed a week before we came on holiday). This has lead to us abandoning most of our plans for activities, with some predictable consequences - the other child became so anxious last night because of the uncertainty about the rest of the holiday that he was sick. Unfortunately he didn’t make it to the bathroom but did at least make it to the sealed floor in the kitchen, but that meant that whilst being sick he also had to fight off the dog, who was trying to consume it as fast as it was being produced (we saw the funny side).
We’ve found the Radio 4 series Ashley Blaker: 6.5 Children to be both quite humorous and quite helpful for realising that sometimes it ‘not just you’, and that others have a more challenging time than us. Our most used phrase from that series is the ‘perceived unfairness alert’. We had one of those yesterday when there was a mistake in the pub and one child got an adult portion rather than a child’s portion. Cue child 2 refusing to eat anything. A few years back that would have been frustrating. Now though it’s just another of those things…
Should have gone to Disney/Centre Parc and got matching T-shirts...
To be fair, mine were pretty good at that age on holiday aside from a few nights crap sleep on ferries and the like due to over-excitedness.
Oh, and my youngest saying he'd like to go home after 30mins at Disney as his legs "ached".
That being said we've never done holidays where we just hang around a house, we've always tended to go to the beach/pool/theme park/mountains/forest.
Go do stuff, have a plan, but be flexible, take more snacks than necessary for a rugby team.
Holidays with kids that age are largely just graft.
The best you can hope for is to tag-team it and give each other a break. If you've got family you get on with and/or amenable friends, going away in a larger group can dilute the pain a bit.
I've found it does get markedly easier and more pleasant, the older they get. My 13 year old daughter has been a great holiday partner-in-crime for fun stuff over the last few years, which is great, as my wife isn't super-adventurous when it comes to holiday activities, especially anything involving boats.
Hold fast. It'll probably get better.
My son has just turned 5 and can be a little git when he wants to be. I think a fair few of us, mainly pointing the finger at myself here, expect them to think like we do, well, they don't. My other half keeps reminding me that. I remember bits and pieces from when I was 4 and 5, all happy memories. I don't remember being a ****, but I'm sure I had my moments.
Focus on the good points, when it hits the fan, remember many others go through it, you just don't see it most of the time. I always compare my son's behaviour to others, which is another thing I shouldn't do, but I still do it. My neighbour's on had a mini melt down at our house the other day as it was time to go home, my neighbour said, "see, it does happen to us too."
@nothshorenial - admittedly they're all in their 30's now so I might have blotted out the bad bits and I think being a single dad kind of helped as they had nobody to counter my no means no stance.
just back from our hols, my boys are 7 and 9 and for the most part quite good fun. Did the pool holiday (not all inclusive though) - I get less than half an hour on a sun lounger as I have to be in the pool inventing various games for them to play, which mostly is fun. Well until I end up with an ear infection half way through the fortnight....
I look around at the older kids on holiday, all sat there staring at their phones and tell myself I've only got a few more years left until they won't want to even talk to me, so try to make the most of it.
I'm not looking forward to mobile phone battles they sound far worse than a being a bit of a pain in the ass on holiday
I’ve found it does get markedly easier and more pleasant, the older they get.
Hmm. That was true for us until our eldest hit 12 1/2 years old, at which point she did the full Kevin the Teenager switch. It's been a challenging year...
when you pander to beings who have no idea what they are doing then the typical result is arseholes
this goes for all ages
All children are different, and all parents are different. What works for some children might not work for others, and what works for some parents might not work for others.
As a parent, as long as you are putting the time and effort in what more can be asked?
I think we're quite lucky with ours (5 and 7) as they play really well together pretty much the whole day.
However, we have different issues (anxiety/ocd) with our eldest especially having sensory issues with clothes and going to the toilet so we still have our own challenges. She had a full meltdown at the beach due to the suncream/sand combination so that was her day over after 5 minutes! We just stuck to the pool after that.
I wish they would spend more time on tablets/consoles though! Ours do endless "arts and crafts" so we're constantly tidying up the mess.
Ours are 5 and 7, can confirm they're arseholes. Fights and arguments over absolutely nothing - yesterday it was over who got to put a box in the recycling! They're better on holiday though as we're out of our routine as well so it's less like ordering them around to make sure they're in bed on time to get a good sleep before school etc, plus there's the threat of no swimming tomorrow to keep them in line 🙂
3 weeks OP? Are you a maniac (or a millionaire?), if they're that young a week is plenty in one go.
Going away with a 12 and 15 year old this year is tollerable, the youngest still gets 'bored" but there's no paddys just vague complaints and easily diffused with food, drink, going in the pool or UNO.
The biggest challenge to my patience is their mother TBH.
@cookeaa - not millionaire:) but a free holiday home so just ferry and fuel cost. But 3 weeks, in retrospect, is a lot. My parents and wife's mum quite aged so we keen for the boys to know and see them before it's too late.
That was true for us until our eldest hit 12 1/2 years old, at which point she did the full Kevin the Teenager switch. It’s been a challenging year…
I feel for you. My youngest will be 14 in December and appears to be emerging from this. His brother (15 in November) wasn't as bad.
I’ve found it does get markedly easier and more pleasant, the older they get.
Hmm. That was true for us until our eldest hit 12 1/2 years old, at which point she did the full Kevin the Teenager switch. It’s been a challenging year…
Oh, Hell-yes - the word "I've" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. There absolutely are new issues that come up with age (teenaged self-consciousness rearing its head for us at the minute, as are the regular battles over device access), but I no longer feel that constant, grinding obligation to be "on" for every minute they're awake that you get when they're properly little.
We were driving to Aviemore from the Borders for a long weekend. The (3) kids argued and whinged so much in the car on the journey that I kept threatening to turn around and drive home. We got to about 2 miles south of Aviemore until I realised that I would have to be good to my threat, we drove home.
Achieved nothing though. We all missed out on a break, kids carried on whinging and fighting and we wasted a load of money. Not sure what the moral of the story is.
That was a lonely hill to die on ,bet the next few days at home were lovely though (LoLz).
In another heading north story (Aberlour) ,we were all fighting in the back,so my dad threatened to leave me at the side of the road if we didn't pack it in. Like your good self Frank,he felt he had to stand by his threat so dropped me off beside a gatehouse/drive of a large estate. When they drove off I upped the game by hiding in the woods behind the gatehouse (I kinda knew/prayed that they would return). I let them search a bit before making my appearance. What an absolute bollikin I got ,almost as big as the one that my dad got from mum ...Happy days 🙂