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I have been asked to source a PAT tester.
Will be used to test Cisco equipment in a comms room. Is there a standard for bigger items as the ones I have looked at look like they are only for small appliances.
Surely all the Cisco gear runs off a standard 3 pin 240v plug?
Certainly when we've had testers in to do comms cabs they've just used the same testing gear as everything else.
Are you talking about a device or a person?
For the sake of a comms room with perma-live equipment, you can do it yourself. Check visually for split mains cables and the like, job jobbed. The notion that you have to get it done professionally is a myth perpetuated by electricians.
Surely all the Cisco gear runs off a standard 3 pin 240v plug?
In a comms room I'd expect it to go to C13/C14 connections in a PDU, but yeah, there's nothing 'special' here.
The person would be a PAT test testerAre you talking about a device or a person?
The size of the machine doesn't really dictate the size of what you can test. Some of the small, hand held units can't do the higher current testing but you wouldn't do that on computer kit anyway.
*PAT Tester.
PAT = [b][i]Portable[/i][/b] Appliance Testing
if it's in a rack in a comms room, it's not really portable. If it isn't on fire and all looks visually ok then as Cougar says you're ok
http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq-portable-appliance-testing.htm
The person would be a PAT test tester
Portable Appliance Testing test tester eh??
They're not all the same. Some are mains powered, others battery. Some will also do extra tests such as load testing. I would think a battery handheld device like a Mettrel, Fluke or Megger would be fine.
Get something that is a bit more technical than just PASS and FAIL. Simple spreadsheet to record results and some labels.
Something like [url= https://www.tester.co.uk/metrel-gammapat-lite-mi3311-pat-tester?fee=3&fep=1392&gclid=CLWZ29z9i88CFa0K0wodu8oHzg ]this[/url] would be fine.
Rich.
21st Century snake oil.
The person would be a PAT test tester
If the person were called Partick or Patricia, and they had done a good job, you could pat Pat the PAT test tester.
You're not a PAT test tester are you? You're not testing the tests, you're testing the appliances.
Aside,
A mate's dog had a collar of a patented design, so it said "PAT" on the reverse of the tag. It always amused me that he had a dog that came with instructions.
I suggest the real question that needs to be answered is what is the actual goal of the people who have asked you to source a PAT tester?
If their concern is ticking off their responsibilities under the 1989 Electricity at Work Regs then these responsibilities are probably best discharged in ways that don't involve PAT testing - for starters, appliances that are fixed to a stationary rack are not portable.
If their concern is troubleshooting reliability problems then the testing procedure for this is completely different to typical PAT testing.
*Pedant mode* It's not PAT testing though is it, surely it would be, PA testing? Or what is being said when you say PAT testing is, personal appliance testing testing.
This somewhat irks me as i hear it everyday other day!:D
To be fair the op got it right.
It amuses me that it irks people 😈 I get similar joy typing my PIN number into an ATM machineThis somewhat irks me as i hear it everyday other day!:D
When I did my City & Guilds PAT certification many years ago (something else work paid for but I've hardly ever used). PAT stood for [u][b]Portable Appliance Test[/b][/u], I've always found PAT testing (Portable Appliance Test testing) particularly annoying. 🙄
Is it not Portabled Appliance Test?
Seaward testers are very good, record everything for you but come at a price!
Does PAT not actully mean Portable Appliance Test[b]ing[/b] though?
I've always found PAT testing (Portable Appliance Test testing) particularly annoying.
Don't be so testy.
Dibbs beat me to it.
Thanks, I think 😀
Why do people do PAT testing? What purpose does it perform that visual examination and maintenance (when/if required) doesn't do.
It's a pretty lucrative income for the testers, and I don't know why it's done?
Even the Hse gave up testing their office kettles.
You don't NEED a machine.
Portable appliance testers = the testers that are portable.
The meaning has changed over the years, so the term PAT is used for such testing, though not in the IET guidance book.
The testing isnt confined to 'portable appliances', it covers any electrical equipment that may be deemed to need inspection. That includes such things as hot air dryers in toilets, air-con units,washing machines, fixed machines - grinders/drills etc and ovens.
It is the usual thing whereby someone in a company says we need this box ticking so say our equipment is tested, yet they do not know what is required, so will test a desktop computer monitor that will most likely not need testing, then totally disregard the hot air dryer where electric and wet hands regularly come into contact.
Why do people do PAT testing? What purpose does it perform that visual examination and maintenance (when/if required) doesn't do.
Unless you're in a high-risk area they're the same thing.
Portable appliance testers = the testers that are portable.
The meaning has changed over the years, so the term PAT is used for such testing, though not in the IET guidance book.
That may have been true once, I've not idea; but it's not what either the HSE or the IET says these days. It refers to "portable" equipment, which anything not hard-wired. By IET definitions all the OP's comms room gear is portable.
Of course, you're right that legislation covers fixed appliances like hand driers also. I forget the exact law but it's something like "electricity at work," and the rules for inspection are different. It's nothing to do with PAT (testing).
It's not really needed, but over the years it's became easier for large workplaces to pay for someone to come in and go through everything with a PAT machine once a year. The alternative is to create a register of all equipment, decide what needs tested and how often, make sure each item is uniquely identifiable and then visually inspect and record at the previously defined intervals. Getting someone to do all that is harder than plugging everything in sight into a machine, pressing a button and putting a sticker on it.
go through everything with a PAT machine once a year.
I think our IT equipment (PC's, monitors etc) is done every 3 years.
Some of the equipment eg laptop PSU's is double insulated and plugging it in to Portable Appliance Tester is a complete waste of time, if moulded plugs are fitted both ends of the lead only a visual inspection for damage can be carried out.
Get something that is a bit more technical than just PASS and FAIL.
I agree but that is not a PAT. PAT is a statutory requirement, a basic test to indicate that something is safe.
If I were responsible for something as business critical as servers, I would probably follow rwamartins or twisty's suggestions and have some meaningful tests done.
PAT is a statutory requirement
No it's not. The requirement is that electrical equipment needs to be maintained in order to prevent danger.
I think our IT equipment (PC's, monitors etc) is done every 3 years.
Some of the equipment eg laptop PSU's is double insulated and plugging it in to Portable Appliance Tester is a complete waste of time, if moulded plugs are fitted both ends of the lead only a visual inspection for damage can be carried out.
It doesn't stop most large workplaces from going down the approach I described though. Largely due to misconception.
No it's not. The requirement is that electrical equipment needs to be maintained in order to prevent danger
Pretty much every task regarded as statutory falls within this phrase. There are ACOPs, guides etc which set out a recognised method of demonstrating compliance, PAT is no different. That goes for testing HV transformers, fire alarms, all sorts so pointing it out is less than helpful.
If you choose another method of maintaining something and your building catches fire and people die as a result, you go to jail.
There is no statutory requirement to carry out PAT. Feel free to link to the regulation that states otherwise. There is INDG236 produced by the HSE but this is a guidance document not an ACOP.
If you choose another method of maintaining something and your building catches fire and people die as a result, you go to jail.
That sounds like something a company offering PAT would say, often after referring to the ever generic PAT law (which doesn't exist).
I don't think you really understand how this all works. I hope that you aren't responsible for any major items of equipment or properties.
Most failures occur at the visual inspection stage (damaged cables, cable restraint, non-compliant plugs, incorrect fuses......).
On a few occasions I have detected missing earth connections during a PA test, so it is worth doing from a safety viewpoint (rather than a tick box excercise).
As someone mentioned above, Seaward are very good.
I have a seaward tester that can also test 3-phase machines (up to 32A 3P+N+E) with optional adaptors.
I don't think you really understand how this all works. I hope that you aren't responsible for any major items of equipment or properties.
Au contraire. I note you never took the opportunity to post a link to the statutory requirement?
The guy that did our pat testing was called Pat. Took me years to realise that it wasn't just the test Pat did.
I use a Megger meter to test for earth leakage on stuff that's earthed.
Visual check on double insulated.
If it's not been designed to be moved around frequently then it's not portable and doesn't get tested.
I've seen pass stickers on fridge/freezers, washing machines and even a cooker hood, nonsense.
I guess the previous testers thought it better to be safe than sorry, especially if they were charging by the hour...
The ironic thing is that the most useful thing an office PAT inspection can do is to check that all the random portable heaters, desk fans, phone chargers etc that employees have imported in are electrically safe, However, management often engage the inspection in such a way that employees feel obliged to hide away their personal stuff for the test and then bring it back in afterwards thus making the PAT inspection largely useless.
Back to the subject of the OP's Cisco appliances, all a PAT tester is going to reveal is if the appliance side earth continuity, insulation resistance, and polarity is good or not. Not an entirely irrelevant thing to think about, but given the probability of this ever being a problem for (infrequently moved) leads that are moulded at both ends there are quite a few other matters to consider that are more important for electrical risk management.
iamtheresurrection - MemberWhat purpose does it perform that visual examination and maintenance (when/if required) doesn't do.
Helps my brother pay the bills. I'm sure we can all get behind that!
except that is wrong. If you use a non ACOP method the emphasis is on YOU to show it was adequate, but it doesn't mean you go to jail (read the opening gumph in any ACOP on its legal status). Even then the ACOP covering electrical testing requires you to assess and determine the appropriate inspection regime. People seem to assume that 1yr is the right answer, but for some things that are moved a lot and have moving parts/vibration - like an angle grinder YOU might determine a more frequent interval, and for other stuff (like kit bolted into a rack) you might determine a much less frequent interval and method.That goes for testing HV transformers, fire alarms, all sorts so pointing it out is less than helpful.
If you choose another method of maintaining something and your building catches fire and people die as a result, you go to jail.
A lack of understanding on what the law actually requires is why people think elf and safety has gone mad. It's not the legislation it's half baked advisors who tick boxes rather than address risk.
That's pretty much what I said poly. My point, like yours is that statute is rarely prescriptive and if you choose not to follow the recognised methodology even if it's not enshrined in law then you will be liable. My example of jail related to the causing of death by not being able to demonstrate that established knowledge has been followed.
There are similar questions around "competence", which is a wooly description and you won't find a definition in HMG documents. Electricians and gas types have a recognised method (NICEIC and gas safe) but they can still be determined to be incompetent if they **** something up, even with their tickets.
If it's not been designed to be moved around frequently then it's not portable and doesn't get tested.I've seen pass stickers on fridge/freezers, washing machines and even a cooker hood, nonsense.
Not true. If it's not hard-wired it's "portable" by definition. Fridges and washing machines are portable, even if you don't routinely carry them around as field kit.
My point, like yours is that statute is rarely prescriptive and if you choose not to follow the recognised methodology even if it's not enshrined in law then you will be liable.
What a load of nonsense.
You are not automatically liable just because you didn't follow a standard procedure. You may be found liable by a court of law, but the prosecution would have to prove that the methods you used were inadequate and that the inadequacy was a contributing factor.
but the prosecution would have to prove that the methods you used were inadequate and that the inadequacy was a contributing factor.
....and by carrying out PAT, you would be able to demonstrate that the methods you had used were adequate........there is a reason that people do PAT's and it's not "nonsense". The last lot I saw were done for £1.50/item, I would never advise a client not to do PAT because it's "not specifically statutory". It's a recognised method for demonstrating compliance.
Would you care to provide a copy of this "recognised method"? That is, one that's actually mandated and not one that's made up by someone charging £1.50 an item.
The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition
PAT is an auditable method of demonstrating compliance with this part of the regulations. Do it or don't do it, I don't care but you won't find any guidance that recommends that you don't. If a judge asks you how you have complied with this and the answer is that Dave from accounts looked at the appliances, I'm not sure they'll find it satisfactory!
I'm not sure they'll find it satisfactory!
Are you sure they won't?
The legislation is wooly, the requirement is that its checked by someone "competent," but there's no definition of competence that I'm aware of. A visual inspection by Dave from accounts is perfectly acceptable, so long as Dave can reliably spot a cable with its insulation hanging out of the plug.
Cougar - ModeratorThe legislation is wooly, the requirement is that its checked by someone "competent," but there's no definition of competence that I'm aware of.
I was on a course years ago and the lecturer summed it up by saying:
A competent person is someone who is deemed to be competent by another competent person!!
This is all to do with Liability. ( arse covering !)
The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition. However, the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually).
[i]One[/i] way of proving that you comply is to have your installation and appliances tested and documented regularly.
The onus is on the business owner to show how they complied if they end up in court after an accident.
Precisely.
PAT is an auditable method of demonstrating compliance with this part of the regulations. Do it or don't do it, I don't care but you won't find any guidance that recommends that you don't. If a judge asks you how you have complied with this and the answer is that Dave from accounts looked at the appliances, I'm not sure they'll find it satisfactory!
Almost anything is auditable.
Signing off that all rack mount enclosures are connected to an earthing bus bar is auditable.
Making a policy decision that PAT of rack mounted devices is pointless because the probability of the earth connection in the leads of every single device in the rack simultaniously failing is vanishingly small can be auditable if the policy is written down.
Having a system of checking the supply circuit earth continuity and a system to tot that the loads connected do not exceed the circuit rating is auditable.
Asking the person you are contracting in to advise on electrical safety to provide evidence of their competence is auditable.