Apple VR headset

Oculus Quest 2 for gaming, I like it.

I don’t even know anyone with a VR headset currently

I've got the playstation one (the old one, not the new one that's not out yet).

It's a pretty good gimmick, and quite good fun - very immersive. Not sure I'd want one for actual work unless it was AR - we're not all touch typists 🙂

I use a Rift for gaming. Take up for sim use is a lot higher than general gaming, any racing or flight sim would be expected to have VR support now.

There's some companies selling VR/AR headsets for professional use but it's still early days. Curious where Apple are going with it as they don't seem like a company to join in on new technology (at least not recently).

Obviously Apple have virtually no presence in gaming so genuinely very interested to see what other applications they have for this technology! If the displays are good/hi-res enough then possibly virtual desktops/design/3d-modelling?

Quite interested in the potential for virtual-reality social experiences too (movies, concerts etc) as the flurry of Zoom, etc events we participated in during Covid (which were great fun!) has convinced me this idea might have legs, especially to keep in touch with people who don’t live close by & you rarely see in real-life.

Or it could just be a massively expensive flop 😂 But it does seem that it’s just technology which is still holding back VR/AR from becoming a lot more important that it currently is. I don’t even know anyone with a VR headset currently so would be interesting to hear from someone who was one, what (if anything) they use it for (or wish they could) & how it could be improved!.

Pretty sure all those are currently things you can do with existing headsets.

Like apple monitors I'm guessing the same spec as the best competitor, but at twice the price.

And some sort of conferencing app to compete with meta.

I suppose if they can make one that you could walk down the street without looking like a muppet they'd be on to something.

but should also be hugely more sophisticated than other options currently available?

Really? Why?

Take up for sim use is a lot higher than general gaming, any racing or flight sim would be expected to have VR support now.

Pretty sure all those are currently things you can do with existing headsets.

My industry uses VR for training - for example maintenance of plant in challenging locations can be practiced with the same space constraints as the real plant. Making it less of a surprise when the technician is on site. It's also got applications in fire safety/evacuation.

I personally use mine for flight simulators - mostly WW2/WW1 stuff, the first time I got into a proper dogfight in VR it made my hands shake.

No idea what apple will do other than make a VR headset that plays really well with the apple ecosystem though, it's not like apple are renowned for sim gaming, which is the main consumer usecase currently.

I suppose if they can make one that you could walk down the street without looking like a muppet they’d be on to something.

The tech media have been talking about Apple doing something like that since Google Glass was introduced. I’m sure that a VR system using glasses a bit like Wayfarers was what most people were expecting, in fact there are some around just like that, but Apple have announced these goggle-type things first.
I honestly can’t think of many people buying these things and walking around with them, for starters periferal sensing goes out the window.

I guess Apple are aiming at gaming and industry, as several have suggested; I might, possibly, be interested in a VR capable pair of sunnies that look like Wayfarers or Frogskins with a VR map overlay for navigation, or information, especially navigation, being able to follow a route using a personal HUD system has a lot of advantages.

I don’t believe the rumours. Reckon this is 4+ years away. Won’t stop share prices dropping when there’s no announcement though.

It's not getting a whole lot of love from this lot (esp. the comments).

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/04/details-emerge-about-apple-headsets-tethered-battery-pack/

so why aren’t we doing them then? Why aren’t I? u

I don't know, why aren't you?

unless you’re saying it will take someone like Apple to come along and make it acceptable/accessible for the masses

I'm sticking with my assertion that if it exists it'll be priced/spec'd on a par with their monitors, which is to say it'll be as good as the HTC ones, be a bit better looking and cost 2x to 3x as much.

It’s not getting a whole lot of love from this lot (esp. the comments).

2 hour battery life sounds a bit weak tho, and swappable genuine Apple batteries sounds expensive!! Although presumably if you were sat in one place e.g. sim-ing or working you could just plug it in?

I might, possibly, be interested in a VR capable pair of sunnies that look like Wayfarers or Frogskins with a VR map overlay for navigation, or information

I've been following the development this for as long as it's been public and have a cheap VR setup at home for gaming and general relaxation (HTC Vive). Some things work really, really well in a VR environment (Google Earth for example, some games), but others do not at all (in my experience, anything that has what your brain assumes to be a hard limit, like walls or very close movement, like roads/pavement). If Apple are going to push this as a gaming device, I think it will be a disappointment and fail.

AR is another matter. Hololens has uses, but it is still a big, heavy, weird setup and really niche. It works for things like manufacturing, but a consumer unit that actually gives useful help/info/data without having a box on your head is what will sell. The US military tried it and it worked, but was too heavy and unreliable for them to deploy. If they can pull off something that legitimately works as true Augmented Reality for a decent price that works well, has good developer support, IS USEFUL, and does not look shit, people will probably buy it. Hell, I've been pushing people I know at Apple to get me on the test group for the hardware, but no luck there.

@zilog6128

https://www.aon2.co.uk/project-obsidian/

That's more what you are talking about I think.

VR setup at home for gaming and general relaxation

Is that what it’s called now😉

so why aren’t we doing them then? Why aren’t I?

I have no desire to strap a screen to my face. I get motion sickness. It isn’t a shared experience. It is expensive.

Is that what it’s called now😉

Aye, it is! Have you never wanted to visit a place you have been to before, but can't go to? Google Earth with the user photographs and panoramas is a close I could get during covid to visiting, say, South Korea, Japan or the US. It is still my most used VR app.

@willard interesting ta! That is actually what the rumoured Apple AR glasses might look like I think. I've seen a few projects of that ilk, including a guy who home-brewed his own with a Raspberry Pi Zero and an OLED screen! Yeah the commentary suggests that AR rather than pure VR will (ultimately) be the main focus.

It isn’t a shared experience.

Not sure about this VR stuff. Seems the most likely outcomes are you punch the wall or bark your shin off the coffee table 😕

Not sure about this VR stuff. Seems the most likely outcomes are you punch the wall or bark your shin off the coffee table

Pretty much what I was saying about situational awareness and peripheral vision - the wearer has to have absolute clarity regarding everything around them, any overlay on their actual vision has to be seamless, and not require the user to change focus while moving around, a very difficult call at best; having to change focus to read a crucial directive while at the same time negotiating a busy road crossing or complicated street layout is asking a hell of a lot!
I mean, what could possibly go wrong…?

Google Earth with the user photographs and panoramas is a close I could get during covid to visiting,

Just to add to this, YouTube vr has done excellent national geographic 360 videos of the arctic, rainforest, coral reefs, various cities etc. These have been great for my 6 yr old daughter who's done projects at school then been able to come home and "visit" the places.

She's also gone and stood in the crowd at various gigs and festivals, including Tomorrowland which is currently her favourite radio station.

It's a fairly niche use case and the novelty of it is a factor, but she has been genuinely awe struck by some of it

Just seen the announcement vid for this, it does actually look really interesting! The rumours about the price were right tho 😂 Don’t think it’ll be available here until late next year, so plenty of time to see whether it’s a hit with developers or not. Looks like it can do plenty already, though.

The fact it’s AR not VR, and the “eye screen” (forget what they’ve called that) are pretty innovative, and will maybe help people using it seem more connected to their surroundings.

Just seen the announcement vid for this, it does actually look really interesting!

Had a quick scan through all of the new stuff Apple announced, iOS 17 looks like a worthwhile upgrade, nothing else I’m really excited about. The goggles are very sleek, and as with a lot of new Apple kit, it gets chucked out into the world and Apple wait and watch what people get up to with it, which I really like. No use for them, and far too expensive for me anyway.

I guess Apple are aiming at gaming and industry, as several have suggested; I might, possibly, be interested in a VR capable pair of sunnies that look like Wayfarers or Frogskins with a VR map overlay for navigation, or information, especially navigation, being able to follow a route using a personal HUD system has a lot of advantages.

This will come! Remember for a company like Apple to release something like this the technology would have to be very mature - glasses whose battery lasts all day (currently impossible), 'retina' levels of resolution, complete optical clarity, lightweight / unnoticeable wearing them, fashionable, etc. Tech isn't there yet to tick ALL the boxes. Individually.- of course, but not all together. But you can guarantee money is being thrown at it by all the big players!

I just get the feeling that saying something is 'Pro' or 'for the developers' when you can't make something that the rest of us wants and can afford is very un-Jobs, and an example of the sort of behaviour he reversed when he went back to the company.

So from that perspective alone I'm disappointed but unsurprised.

… having said that, I can already feel myself becoming intrigued, so WTF do I know?

Tech isn’t there yet to tick ALL the boxes. Individually.- of course, but not all together.

I miss the fun and excitement of the old days when solving that kind of riddle, seemingly out of nowhere, is exactly what Apple did.

just get the feeling that saying something is ‘Pro’ or ‘for the developers’ when you can’t make something that the rest of us wants and can afford is very un-Jobs

EDIT: the Jobs-produced iMac was approx $2.5k when launched, adjusting for inflation, so 🤷‍♂️

The "Pro" tag is probably because (as per the existing rumour) they're also working on a cut-down/cheaper version for the masses which will launch in probably 2 years.

Obviously it's only a G1 device, if it's as good as they claim though it looks like it ticks a lot of boxes already. Really want a go on one now!!

Looks like a crap, less useable version of the valve index, with no decent sound and less features for 4 times the price.

Apple fans will lap it up, no doubt.

no decent sound

Knowing the development work that Apple do with small speakers, I doubt that part.

Whole thing looks like a great workplace tool... that they're hoping to sell to the rich as play things to make the numbers make sense. A great visualisation tool for any kind of product design.

I echoed many of the sceptical comments above. Can't see the utility etc etc

But if you haven't already, watch the video. ****ing hell. Suddenly it does feel like the start of something different. Yes, I am an apple fanboy, yes there are going to myriad flaws, but... wow.

https://www.apple.com/105/media/us/apple-vision-pro/2023/7e268c13-eb22-493d-a860-f0637bacb569/films/product/vision-pro-product-tpl-us-2023_16x9.m3u8

Can’t see a use for it, looks incredible, I want one 🤣

Here’s a review of it, from someone who was actually at the presentation and was given a 30 minute chance to wear it.

https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/05/hands-on-apple-vision-pro-mixed-reality-headset/

^^^ interesting read, thanks. I note the reviewer describes the audio quality as “stunning” 🤔 😂

Meta Quest 3 out later this year - https://www.meta.com/en-gb/blog/quest/vr-hardware-news-quest-3-sneak-peek-price-drop

I've a 2 and it's good fun.

MKBHD video was pretty even-handed. Sounds like some amazing sensor/processing tech and some interesting potential applications, with some very dystopian scenarios presented. It's effectively a devkit but one that those with lots of spare cash can buy as well - for comparison a Microsoft Hololens 2 is the same $3500.

Give it a few years, it's likely the devs will have come up with some useful use cases and the price will be a third of today, and it'll be a very different prospect.

this guy is worth a read for all things tech

https://stratechery.com/2023/apple-vision/

The Verge's review echos a lot of previous comments: it's an incredible piece of technology, but is it actually useful for anything?

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23750003/apple-vision-pro-hands-on-the-best-headset-demo-ever

Remember when Microsoft dismissed the iPhone - “it’s just a phone”

Thanks @dakuan, that explains things much better than anything else I've read about how the displays actually work. I hadn't really taken on the fact that you can't actually see out from the headset, or others see in, it's "all screens". So it's VR with realtime capture, manipulation and display of your environment included. The possibilities of that are ******* awesome... and given how they've been building what I'd considered as AR experiences on their phones and tablets it makes perfect sense... "of course" it works that way.... accept that I hadn't really appreciated/understood any of that before reading his take.

I guess Apple are aiming at gaming and industry, as several have suggested

listening to R4 this morning and according to the person talking (forget where they were from) it’s not aimed at gaming. That sector is already tied up by a couple of well known companies. Also, like motion controls, VR is currently something of a novelty in gaming and not widely embraced.

I get subjected to all the latest VR tech courtesry of my BIL who is mad into it all and has been since the occulus dev kit. Every device has nearly made me sick within a minute so curious to see if this is the one that actually works. Remains to be seen if its the next iphone or the next umbrella hat, but if anyone can make this stick, its Apple.

Still hate them all conceptually though! If it takes off this'll be the device that tips me over from tech sceptic to outright curmudgeon.

Does it include a crown race?

it’s not aimed at gaming.

Wouldn’t describe gaming as a niche. It’s a huge market. Dwarfs music and movies on a global scale. If anything what Apple are proposing is even more niche than VR for gaming 😂 just seems very edge use.

Can you imagine being in an office full of folk wearing them. That would really freak me out! Or booting one up, putting it on just to send a text or something.

How would it be aimed at gaming? It's not a VR headset, it's an AR headset.

AR, for sit-down focused working is a unique application so far, I think.

I bet a flight sim or similar would be pretty awesome to play with that kind of tech in the headset!

The best gaming application would be sitting in a cardboard cockpit with all the knobs and switches in place but blank panels for the windows and screens, and then having the game project onto them.

Every device has nearly made me sick within a minute so curious to see if this is the one that actually works

This is a completely different thing. You can still see the real world, just with other virtual stuff project into space. So you won't get motion sick any more than you would with goggles on.

Seems like a mix of the two to me. AR means no headset for starters. Apple thing can also be blown up to encompass all your field of vision so would therefore be VR. It’s Apple though so it’s basically a really expensive Fisher Price toy

It’s not a VR headset, it’s an AR headset.

It seems to be both.

just seems very edge use.

I think the fact that it’s launching with a pro level model is interesting. Sure, lots of people buy pro level Apple stuff as a status symbol, but as far as the company is concerned, it’s marketed at content creators and developers.

I suspect that after it’s launched we’ll find out what it’s used for, and then the normal level model will come out which is optimised for those use cases.

of course. It’s very new. You need a bit of “vision” to see the potential.

Doesn’t seem that different from existing headsets that have been around for a fair while and don’t cost £3k. Most of them can do a lot of what this one can. It’ll be a muggers paradise if they do take off and make cycling, walking and driving interesting 😂

It’s very new. You need a bit of “vision” to see the potential.

Or to have watched any sci-fi related TV show or movie in the last couple of decades. It's a nice tool and a solid pitch but it's. not that revolutionary.

I'd be interested to see how far away stuff looks. Doesn't exactly look like it has lenses on it? In my old-tech cheap PSVR headset, you look through two big fat convex lenses that allow your eyes to focus on things on-screen as if they were distant. If this thing is transparent then your eyes would look huge from the outside. However, it would be very easy on your eyes in terms of strain.

https://apple.news/AE_SAim--QmOkkD_lDn2SXw

This has so much sarcasm. I love it.

I watched the MKBHD on this. Whilst I don't necessarily see the point, I came away from watching the video with a lot less skepticism. It looks really cool tech, and super interesting - particularly the handoff from your Mac allowing you to do work with it.

I guess it will depend on how developers take to it, but we haven't seen Apple really fail at new devices in the past couple of decades (iPod/Phone/watch/Airpods).

Doesn’t seem that different from existing headsets that have been around for a fair while and don’t cost £3k. Most of them can do a lot of what this one can. It’ll be a muggers paradise if they do take off and make cycling, walking and driving interesting

Wake up at the back and pay attention! It’s not opaque, you see through the front lens, the information is projected onto what you see in front of you and to the sides - people can sneak up on you, in the same way they can without them, or if you’re wearing sunglasses, or headphones; even more so with headphones!

Where I can see these really becoming useful is for architects, engineers, people working in large spaces where having detailed information overlaid on what they’re looking at with others able to link in and see the same info and contribute in real time.

What this is is pretty much what William Gibson was thinking of with the technology in ‘Neuromancer’, and even more so with ‘Virtual Light’, the first of the ‘Bridge’ series. ‘Neuromancer’ was published in the early 80’s, thirty-odd years ago. We’re just catching up.

CountZero

Wake up at the back and pay attention! It’s not opaque, you see through the front lens, the information is projected onto what you see in front of you and to the sides

Wake up at the back and pay attention!? Really?
You're wrong. It is opaque. You do not see through the front lens.
The displays inside can project what the cameras on the outside see, so it can appear you are "looking through the front lens", but you are not.
The eyes you see on the front are presented on a display on the front of the device via the internal cameras that are there to track your eye movements.

Yup, it’s not a mix of transparent glass plus screen… it’s all screen.

The real time capturing and rendering of your environment plus anything else is what’s exciting here… the environment fully informs what you see, and can be transformed not just “projected onto”… this is going to be nuts eventually. The fact that anything seen by it can be a controller is exciting as well… the example is your hands… but no reason this can’t be tools at some point… drumsticks was the first thing I thought of.

That’s a seriously impressive piece of technology. I want one but that’s not going to happen.

You could buy a nice bike for £2.5k and get some real reality. VR not for me thanks.

You could buy a nice bike for £2.5k and get some real reality. VR not for me thanks.

Eh?

It's not an either/or thing. VR doesn't replace life, it's just a fun way of playing video games or, in this case, working.

Fun way of working? Nope, doesn’t make sense.

It’s pretty obvious that it’s too radical for a lot of people to comprehend, and some people will make their minds up without even trying it. Reminds me of my mum when I wanted to get Internet as a kid, she was dead against it despite never having used it or really understanding it 🤦‍♂️ Can’t get her off it now in her 80s now she’s used to it and sees all the benefits 😀

You could buy a nice bike for £2.5k and get some real reality. VR not for me thanks.

How much is an F1 car? Or even a go in one? It’s escapism, sometimes real reality sucks.

And how nice, really? 😈

I like this.

I own a VR headset, it's an ancient PSVR that I paid £120 for. I just bought a bike for £1600, two years ago I bought one for £2k, I own 8 bikes (although 2 I need to shift). I don't think my priorities are wrong? Except perhaps the needless consumerism of bikes?

Fun way of working? Nope, doesn’t make sense.

Having huge virutal monitors is what I was talking about. I would like that. It would make working easier I think.

Launch date just announced for Feb 2. Gutted it's US-only, not cos I can afford to buy one, but I'd love to demo it in an Apple store!

Current rumour is there'll be some kind of superbowl tie-in, given that they now run the halftime show that sounds plausible and could be a very cool demo of its capabilities!

Apparently due to supply issues they're only going to be able to make 400k units this year, would not be surprised if they sell all of those on pre-order tbh, but I think realistically it'll be a while (years?) before you can call it a success/failure either way given that it's such a new concept for the mainstream market - especially as it's full potential (from 3rd party developers) is probably a way off also. Really interested to hear what people who've spent their own money on it think about it though!

I think it's going to go the same way as the 'Metaverse.'

+1 would rather be outside riding my bike. The real world is far more interesting than some online Tech Bro Circlejerksville rendered in PS1-quality graphics.

+1 would rather be outside riding my bike. 

Why does it have to be one or the other? I assume you don't ride your bike 24 hours a day?

been dipping in and out of VR since you could buy it, think early occulus

the tech on the headset is impressive, BUT everything that was shown on it i have tried out at some point, ie big cinema, virtual monitors... its stuff that no one seems to actually do

they use VR at home for games and p**n

I'm sure it can do the latter

but being as it wont work on a high end gaming PC, the actual gaming potential is being held back massively, yes macs can game, but not as well as a top end PC, especially when you can get flagship PC compatible headsets for half the price

native gaming on it, well you have proven devices at a percentage of the price out there (quest)

what it may do however is open up new ideas for developers, and get apple established

its stuff that no one seems to actually do

they use VR at home for games

I don't think they really have much interest in (proper) gaming tbh. I know it's popular, but it's still extremely niche compared to the potential market they have for non-gaming use. But again, we'll see!

would rather be outside riding my bike. The real world is far more interesting