[Closed] Apple Pay

only if you have an apple phone?
Been using pay pass for about a year, no issues and no hassle.

Definitely infinitely more convenient than carrying a thin plastic card with a spend limit of £bazillion around.

this just means women/the elderly will be at the till longer while they faff about

Super cost saving too, not going to the pub after work as your money was out of batteries at 4pm.

only if you have an apple phone?

Which I obviously do!

Sure there is a long way to go before you'd be able to ditch a wallet entirely but this is a great start. It's not really the system that is anything special but it's implimentation, only Apple have been able to generate enough buy in and hype so that on launch day I could set up my cards with all of my different banks, go into Boots and have the little old lady behind the till instantly know Apple Pay existed and how I could pay with it. Google Wallet has the same tech years ago but if I'd tried to use it I'm sure I would have gotten some confused looks, hence why that is now defunct and Google are trying to grab Apple's coat tails with Android Pay. Once retailers update their back end software to remove the contactless/pay pass £20 limit it will be even better.

And yes, wafting your phone near the till is infinitely* better than fishing a card out of your wallet and wafting that.

[i]*1% better but it's just another one of life's marginal gains[/i]

only if you have [s]an[/s] the very latest apple phone[s]?[/s]

Carrying cash is such an incredible inconvenience

I can pay up to about £40-£50 on a contactless card, my one bank card will service 3 accounts so what is the real benefit, what happens when your phone is flat, my card works even when it's wet.

and throw these guys in the mix
http://clipp.co/
bar tab app widespread in Melbourne before apple could pull the core out their arse. Easy and simple and integrated into lots of POS systems

My bank, Barclays, is not playing ball with Apple, so can't use it yet.....

There [s]may have been[/s] [b]are existing[/b] mobile payment systems [s]before[/s]

FTFY.

They work just fine. They're the industry standard system of NFC payments via mobile. Apple just decided to do it a little different with their wallet thing instead of the usual system linking a payment service to a SIM. The actual communication between device and terminal is the same. Apple didn't reinvent the wheel here (as they never do anyway).

Beyond that they're all a bit of a faff on a mobile compared to just tapping a contactless card.

It's clearly the future whether it's as currently (phone/wearables) or the future - part of your body. I expect that apple pay and whatever system ends up popular via android will end up coexisting same as Visa and Mastercard.

So do you need to open an app to pay? Given id still need to carry the same card to pay for more expensive things, and it live in a slim wallet in same pocket as my phone, seems to not yet have reached a beneficial level.

Beyond that they're all a bit of a faff on a mobile compared to just tapping a contactless card.

Beyond that they're all a bit of a faff on a mobile compared to just tapping a contactless card.

It's not comparing apples with Apples though is it- there's no authentication in those contactless transactions, hence the low floor limit.

Mike, how do you select accounts using contactless?

currently contactless defaults to the credit account (or treats the current like a credit) for chip/pin you press a button to select the account. It's like pressing a button it's so easy.

My useless bank, first direct, are excellent on the phone but their internet bank sucks donkey balls, and now they have delayed Apple Pay. Idiots.

Beyond that they're all a bit of a faff on a mobile compared to just tapping a contactless card

this is where Apple have got it dialed. Because...

So do you need to open an app to pay?

No

You just get your phone out of your pocket and hold it over the NFC terminal with your finger on the touch ID button. Done. No need to even unlock the phone, let alone open any apps. You just get a gentle vibration to tell you it's all happened.

I know there are haters but this is where Apple's approach realy pays back. Hardware and software working in perfect harmony to give the user a very nice, simple, useable experience.

Contrast that with the main competitor in Samsung/Google and you have an uneasy union. Samsung have been putting NFC chips in their phones for years to out spec an iPhone, Google have been trying to crack mobile payments for years to out feature iOS, but they still haven't been able to impliment a system that is simpler than using a plastic card in your wallet.

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ironic?

so all I have to do is pay 600 quid for a phone to do the same thing as my contactless bank card,

so all I have to do is pay 600 quid for a phone to do the same thing as my contactless bank card,

How is it that so many well educated people have an inability to read something, and then comprehend what they've read? 🙄

so your phone is hack proof? Should it allow me to spend your entire balance if I pick up your phone?

You just get your phone out of your pocket and hold it over the NFC terminal

I'm sure I'll end up using one version or another one day but to say it's the best thing ever is wrong.

so all I have to do is pay 600 quid for a phone to do the same thing as my contactless bank card

Can your bank card also keep you entertained while you have a poo?

If not it's £600 quid well spent in my eyes.

awesome your logic is like poo

600 quid to be entertained on the loo!, I could hire some sort of dancing midget for that kind of money

mikewsmith - Member

so your phone is hack proof? Should it allow me to spend your entire balance if I pick up your phone?

Not unless you chop off the owners thumb too, it requires a finger print.

I've not used it yet, although I've entered my debit card details - capital one doesn't use it yet though... probably for the best.

P.S. I don't pay for my phone, so hang the cost 😉

Not unless you chop off the owners thumb too, it requires a finger print.

Are you just FUDing or are you going to provide any details of this "software hack" that will compromise Apple Pay?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's more secure than Chip and Pin.

Are you just FUDing

Troll.

How can it be compromised? Simply convince the phone it's reading the fingerprint (or whatever it's actually reading) into thinking it's the one on record. Not saying it's been done but trusting it cause Apple did it isn't really that safe. Is it safe enough to allow unlimited transactions? The way to tell is who will underpin fraudulent transactions - my paypass is underwritten by the card provider.

I'm thinking it'll be a lot harder to skim a phone than a card.
No idea when it'll come down here.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's more secure than Chip and Pin.

I'd agree. For a start, harvesting PINs has been proven to be easy, and card cloning happening onsite (my local garage had a spate)

[url= https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT203027 ]Here's some background reading[/url] .. adding a transaction ID helps security as far as I can see.

But as I too am wating on First Direct it's slightly academic for me. 🙂

kiwi - your phone spends it's life talking to the rest of the world, my cards don't. Anyway good luck using it in the depths of Tassie 🙂

mikewsmith - Member

Not unless you chop off the owners thumb too, it requires a finger print.

Ah bless the innocents... of course that's how it works, the software knows that it' a thumb not a software hack.

I suppose you just keep your money under your tinfoil hat?

not at all but thinking that one method is fool proof is a bit naive, my losses on my card are backed by the provider.

your phone spends it's life talking to the rest of the world, my cards don't.

Thanks for the assessment zilog, you sound clueless too. I'm suggesting that saying it's secure/fine is not really that good. Nothing is that secure, everything can be broken. Just because you think there is physical security like popping your finger on a 10p sensor makes it better than good luck.

my losses on my card are backed by the provider.

They still are on Apple Pay? Suspect they still will be on any alternative payment system, if underlying it is a card issued by a bank.

AFAIK the only issues so far have been around identity theft and creating bogus card using the stolen identity. Onboarding a card to Apple Pay is designed to be as simple as possible, so if the issuer is fooled into creating a dodgy card, Apple Pay won't pick it up. But the transaction itself is secure.

It'll probably replace my debit card as soon as I can confirm can get cash back if required.

awesome your logic is like poo

You sound really bitter. Do you need a hug?

lol not really just I passed on the kool aid...

It'll probably replace my debit card as soon as I can confirm can get cash back if required.

Not sure why, but I am sensing a smidge of anti-Apple sentiment from MikeWSmith.

Will charging points be on offer at all shops?

Why would they need to be? Don't find it terribly challenging to keep a phone operating for a couple of days, and we have plugs in our office. YMMV.

not at all but my debit card works if it's charged or not, after 3 days out somewhere it still works, I'll not be swapping mine for mobile payment at any time soon.

Not sure why, but I am sensing a smidge of anti-Apple sentiment from MikeWSmith.

Nothing is that secure, everything can be broken.

?? No I was replying to posts like this

Not unless you chop off the owners thumb too, it requires a finger print.

after 3 days out somewhere it still works

It's not for that though is it? Day to day, just carrying the phone, which I would do anyway will be enough. It's not anything to do with Apple Pay either really, only it's the first version getting some traction, and happens to be the phone I use. I used one of those stick on touch pay things for a while, that was an OK solution, just not as elegant. Once I had a contactless card reissued I reverted to using that, so I might with Apple Pay too, we'll see.

Lets face it, contactless cards are useless in about 90% of the world anyway. I include Dorset in that.

when apple 'invent' wireless charging then there might well be charging points in shops

itd be nice if there was a google pay on my nexus, but its not that slick with my card, as said above it certainly isnt universal yet
my QI phone cradle in the car however is pretty darn sweet id say at least a 2.5% improvement

It's not for that though is it? Day to day, just carrying the phone, which I would do anyway will be enough.

It'll probably replace my debit card as soon as I can confirm can get cash back if required.

Having got off planes with a flat phone after an international flight and needing a taxi my cards remain king. Any here in tassie I can use contactless in about 90% of places I go to.

I'm so dizzy with fapp'idge about this I can hardly tyyypppppppeee........ 😆

lol not really just I passed on the kool aid...

You are the Kool Aid. Now step away from the Internet and go get yourself a hug...

sorry I meant I pissed in the kool aid...

It's still you.

right I apologise for daring to suggest that every turd from apple isn't gold plated (and patented) contactless payment is a good idea, on your phone great, incorporate things like Oyster and other transit cards, add in some limits as the security won't be any better than pay pass etc. don't give up your cards just yet as when your phone dies and it's your round don't expect much sympathy. I guess I read stuff and responded to what people said. Perhaps I should just go home.

[img] [/img]

Perhaps I should just go home.

You're just unnecessarily annoyed at all of your own assumptions, which you're projecting into anyone who owns an Apple product. It's not rational.

OK OK
[img] [/img]

It's a perfect tech, it's 100% secure, it will be fine when my phone went flat as people have suggested...

This is only an amazing revoutionary thing if you're an Apple user. Because, everything Apple do is an amazing revolutionary thing if you're an Apple user 🙂

Oh, here's the other one. Would it worked if you hugged each other? No 'special' hugs, though! Who knows what beast that might create!

It's a perfect tech, it's 100% secure, it will be fine when my phone went flat as people have suggested...

Apparently the number of fraudulent transactions using Apple Pay when it launched in the USA was quite high. It turned out this was mostly people stealing or cloning the physical card and adding it to their own Apple Pay. So the weakest point in Apple Pay appears to be the physical card your bank still send you. Oh the ironing.

As for flat batteries. Most modern phones have such huge batteries due to them being incredibly power hungry that if you just turn off the power hungy bits they will last for ages. My iPhone 6 will last for about 4/5 days if I just use it as a phone and for texting and turn off 3g/4g/WiFi etc.

But I don't think anyone is claiming you can ditch your plastic cards yet, just that Apple Pay is a neat way to pay now, probably trumps contactless for ease if you have the required kit and will definately trump contactless and chip and pin once the transaction limit is removed by the retailers.

not at all but my debit card works if it's charged or not, after 3 days out somewhere it still works, I'll not be swapping mine for mobile payment at any time soon.

Hmm ... nobody suggested doing that - just using a new method of payment when it's more convenient to do so.

I've
Gone
Blind
😐

DrJ - Member

[i]not at all but my debit card works if it's charged or not, after 3 days out somewhere it still works, I'll not be swapping mine for mobile payment at any time soon.[/i]

[b]Hmm ... nobody suggested doing that - just using a new method of payment when it's more convenient to do so.[/b]

Erm, I think someone did though.....

brassneck - Member

It'll probably replace my debit card as soon as I can confirm can get cash back if required.

which was the comment mikewsmith was referring to (I believe) when he said he wouldn't ditch his cards for mobile payment anytime soon....

An Apple thread without mikewsmith's contribution would be really, really nice.

Erm, I think someone did though....

Uff. My mishtake ... 🙁

and [s]will definately[/s] may trump contactless and chip and pin [s]once[/s] if the transaction limit is removed by the retailers

An Apple thread without mikewsmith's contribution would be really, really nice.

I wouldn't say 'contribution' is the right choice of word.....

Erm, I think someone did though.....

brassneck - Member
It'll probably replace my debit card as soon as I can confirm can get cash back if required.

which was the comment mikewsmith was referring to (I believe) when he said he wouldn't ditch his cards for mobile payment anytime soon....

He was referring to that, by coming up with the suggestion that it would be stupid to travel internationally with only a phone and no cards or cash. 🙄

As this involves expenditure by the retailer on new terminals don't hold your breath as they may struggle to see why they should upgrade as it's not really going to increase turnover.

Living in Denmark I didn't use cash from one week's end to the next. I'm not sure if that was because the banks charged less for card transactions, or if it was a virtuous circle thing, where retailers that didn't accept cards got fewer customers. Either way, I'm surprised (not really) by the number of retailers here that don't accept cards, or make a charge for card use. A major gripe is taxis - you need to have up to 50 quid in cash when you get in the car. No wonder Uber is killing them.

But I don't think anyone is claiming you can ditch your plastic cards yet, just that Apple Pay is a neat way to pay now, probably trumps contactless for ease if you have the required kit and will definately trump contactless and chip and pin once the transaction limit is removed by the retailers.

I think the banks will want a few more guarantees before they start lifting the limits - credit cards may not be 100% secure, but the banks understand them and can calibrate the risk. Apple Pay is new, and generally speaking banks don't like new things.

A major gripe is taxis - you need to have up to 50 quid in cash when you get in the car. No wonder Uber is killing them.

Plenty of cabs take cards now, particularly in London, I agree though, I rarely use cash for anything.

I'm certainly sufficiently intrigued by this to have signed up today, although I've not gone to any participating shops to actually try it.

Mike - your frothing is rather odd. FWIW someone did hack the fingerprint scanner on an iPhone 5S by taking a latex 'copy' of a finger print lifted from a glass. To say its down to nothing more than luck seems really stupid. I'm also intrigued by his easy peasy software hack. No one is claiming its infallible, but I'd say it's a lot more secure than you seem to think.

I'll definitely use it, have been using the contactess on my debt card a lot including on the tube/busses.

One key problem with biometric authentication is what you do once it's compromised. It's easy to replace a plastic card, PIN or password. Less easy to replace your fingerprint, eye or face 🙂

Mobile has been touted as the next big thing in payments for nearly ten years now, one of the key challenges being nothing in payments is any good for the consumer unless it works in every shop they go to and everytime they pay ie. at scale. It also has to be better than what they do now. Note that cash still makes up 52% of transactions in UK despite 20+ years of debit cards and longer for credit.

There's a lot of people playing in mobile payments right now, the opportunity to get hold of our offline purchase data is too valuable an opportunity to pass up. Apple Pay may or may not be the holy grail of mobile payments but their brand is so powerful that they are likely to be a catalyst for new momentum...

Bugger Halifax isn't live yet.

Erm, I think someone did though.....

brassneck - Member
It'll probably replace my debit card as soon as I can confirm can get cash back if required.

which was the comment mikewsmith was referring to (I believe) when he said he wouldn't ditch his cards for mobile payment anytime soon....

Maybe I should have added 'day to day' to that. Thought I had. I already have a phone case/wallet with the bare minimum in it, would be nice to use any case I liked rather than one I can fit 2 cards and a tenner in most days.
As it took me 20 minutes to get a taxi from Dublin airport that took a card I think I'll be travelling with cash and cards for some time yet.

Less easy to replace your fingerprint, eye or face

Use a different finger. Maybe use nail varnish to remember which one 🙂

This is only an amazing revoutionary thing if you're an Apple user. Because, everything Apple do is an amazing revolutionary thing if you're an Apple user

Nobody's Apple fappin' about it, but I'm not aware of an Android / Windows phone equivalent live on the high street (for some users) right now. So you sort of have to mention Apple.

Oh actually bikebouy is ... sorry, my mistake,as you were 🙂

Bugger Halifax isn't live yet.

I'm sure most of the locals will be relieved...

I'm sure most of the locals will be relieved...

[img] [/img]

Just used it, Morrisons have a £20 upper limit but I was only paying a fiver.

Works well, it's as quick as it is in the demos which isn't always the case.

The fingerprint took a little longer than unlocking my phone, perhaps they're extra careful with it?