[Closed] Apple overtakes the entire FTSE 100

Jolly well done. Love me a bit of Apple tech. Apart from the Jesus phone obvs,

Business-wise they haven't really done much (if anything) wrong since bringing out the iPod - would've liked to have bought a few shares just before that happened 😂 Still doesn't stop supposedly knowledgable tech commentators (including on here!) slagging off everything they do & saying "it'll never work/sell" though 🤣

I know, wish I'd bought a few £ks worth a few years ago!

It's amazing, I'm surprised the EU hasn't had more to say on the monopoly status of the App Store.

footflaps
Subscriber

I know, wish I’d bought a few £ks worth a few years ago!

Don't, i had an opportunity to buy a grands worth back in the early 90s. 😑 Still got my Performa 630 with TV Tuner that we got instead though. Worth a little less than the shares would have been I reckon.

I’m surprised the EU hasn’t had more to say on the monopoly status of the App Store.

It's not illegal to have a monopoly in business, it's only illegal to abuse having a monopoly, e.g. by subsidising one part of a business from another to drive out competitors like Microsoft did with the web browser.

Forget being bigger than the FTSE 100, they're near as damn it bigger than the UK economy in its entirety - especially at the moment.

Apple don't have a monopoly. Apple Stores are not the only shops on the high street where you can buy phones, tablets and computers. Thye're not even the only shops on the high street where you can buy Apple gear. Plenty of other stores selling Apple gear and other manufacturers gear adorn our high streets and internets.

Apple don’t have a monopoly

I think the concern is more over their AppStore and access to it for developers. The 30% fee is pretty steep!

Forget being bigger than the FTSE 100, they’re near as damn it bigger than the UK economy in its entirety – especially at the moment.

Yep, qute incredible when you compare the two, Apple would be in the G7 in its own right!

Apple don’t have a monopoly. Apple Stores are not the only shops on the high street where you can buy phones, tablets and computers. Thye’re not even the only shops on the high street where you can buy Apple gear. Plenty of other stores selling Apple gear and other manufacturers gear adorn our high streets and internets.

I think they’re referring to the App Store. Ie, where you buy the apps for your iPhone/iPod etc.

And Apple can remove and block any apps they don't like, or that are competing with their own apps. The court case with Fortnite could be interesting.

I think they’re referring to the App Store.

You don't have to buy an Apple device.

You can develop web apps if you don't want to go near their store/code.

The thing is... Apple has found a way to develop and sell hardware and not go bust, or gain a reputation for dodgy software running on their kit. Much as it wrangles to see such a closed system... it makes perfect business sense.

Most monopolies end up regulated, eg Ofcom, OfWat, Ofgas etc...

Apple is no different and will eventually be regulated in some form or other.

kelvin

You don’t have to buy an Apple device.

You can develop web apps if you don’t want to go near their store/code.

Yeah and back in the 2000-2010s You didn't have to buy a windows device either.

The EU still ruled that amongst other things that microsoft were abusing their status by setting IE as default browser in XP. I'd say that was arguably less of an abuse since the user could easily install an alternative browser, whereas the App Store cannot be replaced.

The fact is, web apps are inferior, if you want a successful computer-based business, you need to provide an app, and as iOS is the single biggest platform, you need to support it to be successful therefore no choice but to follow Apple's rules.

The gurniad jumps the gun on this story. Apple are worth £1.48tn and the fuse 100 has a value over £1.5tn. So a little bit to go yet. £20,000,000 + and then they can run the story again.

If Epic lose their fight with Apple and Google, especially on the 30% fee on in-app purchases, then it would be frickin ace if Visa international et al decide that 30% is the new normal for payment processing fees 🙂

Seriously, I hope they do, and I hope all businesses also make 30% the normal standard commission fee. It might take more than just Epic to make someone with authority wake up and do something about it.

Sure they don't have a monopoly, because there's Google and Android too, so not strictly a monopoly but it's still monopolistic business practice.

Good luck trying to sell an Apple App via Google store or vice versa, with an acceptable 5 or 10% fee. And good luck trying to sell an app and in-app purchases to phone users via another store.

The App Store 30% is a nice earner - but it's on par with Google's Play Store and other similar stores. I can understand why a developer like Epic hates it for Fortnite as they make all their revenue from in-game sales not the sale of the game itself. So they're paying Apple a 30% cut of something that happens within Epic's backend (although using Apple's payment system but only as it's enforced, if you have the PC version of Fortnite it uses Epic's payment system).

On the flip side Apple wouldn't make any app revenue otherwise if apps listed as free and then all the paid stuff was within the app. I'm just surprised there isn't a sliding scale, a solo dev adding an app for £5 on the App Store and Apple taking a 30% cut is still getting a good deal, he reaches a huge audience for that fee. But a games dev company with a massively popular product that is generating millions of $ a month in in-game purchases, for Apple to still be taking 30% is really unfair IMO but sure ultimately you aren't forced to port an app to iOS. And 70% of something is still better than 100% of nothing.

As for shares - at least I can understand Apple's value, they are massively profitable with a solid track record. It's Tesla's share price that has me bemused, it's price to earning ratio is over 1250! (Apple's is 40). People keep saying it's going to go pop (and I agree at some point surely it has to) but it keeps rising and people are making a killing from it at the moment...

The only reason the likes of Epic have a business is because Apple invested billions in developing the technology. Nobody bats an eyelid to the fact that most high street shops doubles the price (and more) of everything it sells.

Tesla looks daft, but at least in part there's a roadmap to being a bigger company. Apple is perhapse harder to see where the future growth is so rationally the only way is down.

Where's seeing tesla as becoming 30x bigger than they are now doesn't seem so far fetched, assuming they take more market share from established car brands, and sell powerwalls to people with other cars, and solar tiles, and whatever else.

Although pricing in the risk really you're betting on them becoming even larger.

The bit that is left out of this story is where the rapid gains are coming from - a decent chunk is from a trading platform called Robinhood. Basically it allows anyone to trade (including doing shorts etc!) via an app, they'll even allow you to borrow money from them to invest (nothing wrong with that right?). So a load of 18 years olds have jumped on, borrowed a bit of money and are now investing in things they've heard of / use / aspire to (apple, tesla). This has been further facilitated by tesla and apple doing stock splits, which makes it easier for people to own 'a whole share'.

What could go wrong.

(Robinhood is in the states. Unsurprisingly the idea of lending people money to bet on the stock market has not gone down well with UK regulators. As it's insane.)

Apple just copied what the console makers used to do, and applied it to their own handheld games machines that also happened to do… well… loads of other things. Don’t buy an Apple device if you don’t like the way they do things… there really are many other options out there.

When you offshore pretty much your entire manufacturing base and rely on services then you can't expect to be surprised when knowledge and manufacturing businesses outstrip your country which has an endemic problem of lack of investment. Not helped by the City with their short termism.

Chronic under-investment, short-termism and failure to create a sustainable industrial base has blighted the UK for the last 30 years and will do for the next 50. Failure to establish genuine value-added businesses i.e. not expensive drinks made by adding boiled water is going to catch us out badly.