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So lets get this out there to start, I an a total Apple FANBOI !!
There it’s said.
I have access to Apples full blown lossless library and want to make the most of this by connecting “it” to my HiFi system.
Initial research suggests a wired connection ( ethernet?) from my iMac to a DAC is the way to go.
Hit a brick wall at this point.
STW massive please help with some suggestions.
The feed into the system is a Linn Kolektor pre amp.
the sound that comes out the mac is good, I don't think you need an external DAC. No doubt others will disagree. But sound has been excellent out any mac I've ever had.
Mind you, for playback purposes I reckon lossless "hi res" is snake oil anyhow, recording it's a different story mind but there's different things going on there.
If you want a decent DAC for not a lot of money the Topping E30 is truly brilliant. Really very very good and around £140
I run the model up from that (D50s) but in a hifi that runs to around £12k and it replaced a DAC that cost over £2k. It isn't outclassed by the rest of my system
usual questions:
budget?
what's the rest of the system?
I'm running a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 for my Windows laptop (USB), MacBook (toslink from 3.5mm headphone socket) and CD player. From their factory outlet on Ebay. It was £129, came as new and I am delighted with it.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234196887475?hash=item368738e7b3:g:KsIAAOSwsiNhSMFE
I use it to stream Tidal HiFi from the MBP most of the time at 44kHz.
Honestly, I’d be very surprised if you could hear any significant difference between Lossless and 320Kb files ripped from a CD. I know I can’t.
Current system is various sources into a Linn Kolektor pre amp.
This feeds four Rotel RB-850 power amps all running as mono blocs.
Two mono blocs per speaker. These are KEF iQ90s
Currently the iMac is connected the pre amp via an ethernet cable to a Apple Airport Express in turn RCA connections to the pre amp
Budget? will £300 do it?
Will it do what?
Ultimately, a DAC turns your digital input into an output that analogue speakers can reproduce. Prior to that it's not music, it's data, 1s are 1s and 0s are 0s. You don't get a title bar in a more vivid colour of green when running Excel off an SSD. The farther you can preserve that digital signal down the chain before having to do a DAC, the better off you'll be.
Shoving it over a brace of Phono connections, eh, that was shit twenty years ago. Do you have any means of making a digital connection between source and destination?
A bit brutal Cougar, bit no, he time and money I have invested after lots of hard graft does not allow for a digital path direct to the speakers.
If you want something for less than a ton, try Audioquest Dragonfly or Cyrus Soundkey.
If you want a real cheapo then Venture Electronics are selling the Avani and Abigail USB dacs for about a tenner. Their Monk earbuds get good write ups and I've just got a couple of Abigails for use on my USB-C phone and they sound decent.
peteimpreza
Full Member
A bit brutal Cougar, bit no, he time and money I have invested after lots of hard graft does not allow for a digital path direct to the speakers.
just buy a 3.5mm jack to phono cable. Fiver, job jobbed.
@breatheasy not looking for cheap , wanting to get the best out of the lossless digital source
@seosamh77 that’s how an Airport Express connects anyway so ………….. your point is?
Bell wire FTW!
RCA connections to the pre amp
Not sure if it helps at all but I think Airport express has an optical out in the 3.5mm port.
Honestly, I’d be very surprised if you could hear any significant difference between Lossless and 320Kb files ripped from a CD.
Once one gets above 320kb things get less bass-y (there is noticeably less cymbal splash at 320kb). This is dependent on the CD drive used to rip the CD though.
A bit brutal Cougar, bit no, he time and money I have invested after lots of hard graft does not allow for a digital path direct to the speakers.
Sorry if I appeared blunt, I didn't mean to offend.
not looking for cheap , wanting to get the best out of the lossless digital source
And that's what I suggested, though (hopefully) obviously I didn't mean "speakers" as the destination. Rather, the later in the stages that you can do DAC the better if 'quality' is your primary concern. Whilst you're in the digital realm, what goes in is what comes out. As soon as you convert to analogue all bets are off. The answer to your question is "step 1: throw that phono cable in the bin".
Does your pre-amp not have optical input? https://www.amazon.co.uk/TOSlink-Fibre-Digital-Optical-Gold/dp/B008N15ON6
This is dependent on the CD drive used to rip the CD though.
Nonsense, unless your PC was built in the 1990s.
How many times do I have to write this? Music on a CD is data not audio. A 1 on a CD is exactly the same as a 1 on your hard drive. Exactly. A CD is not vinyl, there are no 0.5s here. A cheap CD drive won't result in inferior audio reproduction, the data is either intact or it isn't. Ever had a bad DAB reception, or a poor satellite TV signal? As soon as it drops beyond the ability of ECC to keep a coherent data stream together you don't get noise and interference like you would with traditional TV or AM/FM radio, you get a brief squelch and then complete silence.
Any audible variation from a ripped CD compared to the original disc will be as a result of transcoding or subsequent encoding such as mp3 compression. Or of course, playing it back through different equipment. Bog all to do with the CD-ROM drive.
And in any case as CZ - one of our resident audiophiles - says, I too would be astonished if you could reliably tell the difference between 320 and lossless. You can spend all the money you like on expensive hardware, but much beyond the age of about 40 the kit is increasingly less likely to be your bottleneck.
Hah, I've just noticed that the optical cable I linked to back there is gold plated. Oil those snakes sir, oil them!
Not got the best "ears" due to some industrial deafness but as mentioned above the little Cyrus sound key is frankly ridiculous value for 70 quid and you can take it with you to plug headphones in.
Hi OP - thoroughly recommend you spend some time on John Darko's youtube channel for some informative, useful advice: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnHDarko
Esp. this discussion on Apple Lossless:
Is a rabbit hole, enjoy your time down there!
The cheapest Khadas Toneboard is amazing for the money: https://www.khadas.com/tone1
I have this and a Dragonfly Red.
Khadas better for sound into hifi. Dragonfly better for simplicity / portability.
I have a Topping D30 and a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic.
Both work well for me, can't tell them apart TBH.
I use an AudioEngine D1 connected to my laptop feeding a Marantz 2238b connected to some big ol Cerwin Vega's. I do have a Hidisz S9 Pro too which also sounds fabulous compared to the standard 3.5mm headphone socket to the sane equipment.
You'll probs find generally a DAC will connect via usb rather than Ethernet.
There's heaps out there from 50 quid to silly money.
Ifi, Hidisz, Topping, Shanling, Schiit, Cambridge etc etc
John Darko's youtube channel is great. But also makes you wanna buy more kit!
And in any case as CZ – one of our resident audiophiles – says, I too would be astonished if you could reliably tell the difference between 320 and lossless.
Strangely yes I can and in the car too (car has a very nice set-up compared to standard and the difference is there). Bear in mind I did not attend many loud music events in my 20's and 30's and religiously wore ear-defenders with 20dbA attenuation in my noisy workplace. My hearing though degraded is in much better shape than a lot of people my age.
I would suggest a DAC that supports asynchronous-USB. This allows the DAC to supply a master clock for the data transfer and in theory should produce less jitter and more accurate reception of the signal and lead to better sound.
Look at offerings from brands such as iFI, Dragonfly and Cambridge Audio. They have a good reputation for value for money and good sound at the budget end.
Ideally a Chord Mojo would be what I recommend but I think this might be a bit outside your budget.
The new iFi Zen dac v2 is supposed to be good, usb only though.
If have just bought one of these as all in one amp/ receiver and just bluetooth Apple Lossless from phone straight to it....
https://www.richersounds.com/yamaha-rn602-blk.html
peteimpreza
Full Member@seosamh77 that’s how an Airport Express connects anyway so ………….. your point is?
you're over thinking this.
Bluetooth isn't necessarily up to lossless datarates......
"We will deliver music using lossless audio compression to your iPhone, iPad, Mac and Apple TV. Lossless audio will play back normally on Bluetooth speakers and headphones. However, Bluetooth connections don't support lossless audio."
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212183
Strangely yes I can
In a double-blind test? I don't believe you. Grab a couple of friends and try it.
The best way to connect your iMac to a DAC is via USB assuming your DAC has an USB input. Your Mac will enable the USB to output a digital signal. There is some useful insight on why USB is the best choice for a digital out in this case here but in short it is because you want the DAC to do the reclocking rather than the Mac, as undoubtedly the DAC's reclocker will be better than that in the Mac.
You are effectively looking to use your Mac as a streamer; treaming is very useful for exploring new music and I've discovered a ton of new material in the last year as a result of this, but I have to say that if you value sound quality as well as choice (and it, ahem, sounds like you do given that you're running biamped mono blocs!) then there are much better streaming services than Apple Music.
The best is Qobuz, since they offer everything at least at full CD quality (44.1khz 16 bit) and quite a lot at resolutions higher than this. 192/44 is routinely available and the occassional DSD files crop up as well (though your DAC might not be able to handle this).
One thing I would highly recommend is Roon if you've not already discovered this. It is effectively a piece of software that curates your music, whether that be locally stored (and BTW locally stored still sounds noticeably better than streamed); or streamned. It sits between you and all those sources and acts like a very effective window onto your music world. It's either subscription based or outright purchase and is easily one of the best things to happen to music listening.
As for file sizes etc, it is entirely right that a bit perfect rip is a bit perfect rip and the CDROM drive makes no difference. dBPoweramp is a perfect tool to rip bitperfect copies of your CD archive onto a hard drive (I have a 4TB SSD in my music server for this purpose). What is entirely down to personal taste and hearing discretion is resolution of file. I can very easily hear the difference between, for example, 44/16 and 192/44; lower than 44/16 is something I would never bother with but then I am a bit of an audiophilliac.
As per the above suggestion - please to god do not watch any Darko on YouTube. The guy is an idiot, a rich sponsored idiot but and idiot nonetheless. He comes across all technical but spouts the most insane amount of bollocks ever spouted on matters concerning the digital domain.
He comes across all technical but spouts the most insane amount of bollocks ever spouted on matters concerning the digital domain.
I've never paid much attention to him; what kind of things is he saying to make you say this?
I’m not claiming to know anything about the subject but on you tube the Cheapaudio man cracks me up every time. I came across him when looking for reviews of the Q Acoustics 3020i and that review remains one of my favourite reviews of anything ever on you tube
”audio should never cost more than a bust of William Shatner in a material of your choice”
For headphone listening I use a Meridian Explorer (USB) DAC with Audirvana. The quality is great and you can use AU plugins with Audirvana to compensate for things like dynamic range compression. Audirvana also let’s you use an existing iTunes library if you have one (as long as tracks aren’t DRM protected). My files are all flac though, rather than alac.
He comes across all technical but spouts the most insane amount of bollocks
Hiya.
I can't listen to loud music at home because I'm in a tower block with thin walls and floors. I have some very bassy, interesting Edifier speakers but turn the bass knob down most of the time, and limit volume. At work I simply can't pollute my coworkers with my music whilst they're watching Chinese soap operas on their laptops/phones, or taking a nap. So, good headphones and a portable DAC connected by USB to get the best out of it. And i have to say that there are only a few discussion boards I trust for accurate reviews of equipment, put into context of user, price, and value for money. One of those is the Head-Fi forum.
Takstar Pro 82 headphones and a Fiio BTR3K is cost effective for me. A Fiio BTR5 if you want to pay double the price of the BTR3k for 15-20% better sounding music.
Currently using an iFI Micro DSD (not black label), from Tidal and Qobuz. Feeds some Philips Fidelio X2HR (total bargain these btw-under appreciated headphone) and when not headphones it feeds an old Cyrus 8 and Fyne F501's
Likely to get into a dCS Bartók next year which will be a significant step up. I should qualify this and say that I worked in hifi in the past and will be unlikely to have set ups like I used to. Cause kids.
"15-20% better sounding music". Genuine question, is this based on a measurement or perceptual? Just curious what the technical differences are that yield this (Freq response/thd/transient response/noise floor/???)
I've just added a Topping D50S to my system.
It's fantastic. A real up lift for my 23 year old Marantz CDP and my network streamer. Am I an audiophile if I use a Marantz CD63 KI Signature as a transport? 😁
That 63KI Sig was one of the most musical machines ever made.
Indeed it was ojom but DAC technology has advanced significantly since 1997. The KI Sig has a single NPC DAC chip.
@AdamT some of the users on Head-Fi really test the gear out with industry equipment. There's a lot of engineers having fun with their hobby. For us, the end user, it means authoritive voices helping us a darned sight better than amazon reviews
Totally. I mean for the time it was on sale it was a cracker for the money.
The best DAC I've heard is the dCS Vivaldi. Something else.
@mrdestructo I guess I'm both an end user and and engineer so was interested in the technical difference. I did an electronics degree which took me into pro audio equipment design for a number of years. In a different role I did quite a bit of research into perceptual audio codecs (which is pretty interesting if you're into this kind of thing).
That 63KI Sig was one of the most musical machines ever made.
I had one of those and it was something of a legend but, yes, DAC technology has come on massively especially in the last ten years.
The best DAC I’ve heard is the dCS Vivaldi. Something else.
I have heard a full DCS stack and really didn't like it; there's no arguing it does a very good job of converting a digital signal to an analogue one but, for my taste (and I know I'm very much not alone here), it doesn't do a very good job of making music; it's very clinical and dry sounding.
My personal preference for DACs are those with tube output stages. Lampizator Golden Gate is currently my DAC of choice.
@Cougar remember that as file sizes go up the prudent listener moves the bit depth above 16 which is where all my files are (24 bit or better). This was what my comment about CD drives was about, remember SACD many moons ago?
The difference is very noticeable, how about you try? I know it works for my ears.
I really enjoy John Darko's youtube channel. I think it's a fair take on the kit, and he does a good job of trying to communicate how one system might sound different to another (which isn't that straightforward a task).
As for DACs, the iFi unit has had some good reviews, so clearly is a good budget pick. Personally, everything sounded like a DAC until I bought a Chord Qutest. Then everything was different. Not cheap but I love mine.
The difference is very noticeable, how about you try?
Nu-huh.
I'd love to. Set it up.
I like Darko's reviews.
Also Andrew Robinson. Z Reviews too (although for ages I was convinced the Zeos was Jack Black!)
Steve Guttenberg's gone downhill since Police Academy though. Really showing his age. 🙂
(j/k)
I've got an iFi Zen, streaming Tidal MQA from USB into a 1970s receiver. Sounds bloody lovely.
At my desk I've got a Dragonfly Black 1.5 into a amp and speakers that are waaaay too big for the desk but whatever, it also all sounds bloody lovely.
I didn't cut corners with the RCA cables or speaker wire.
Typing this listening to Tidal HiFi from my MacBookPro through DacMagic 100 then Class D Sonos Amp and Rogers JR149's on isoAcoustics stands (a bit big on the desk). I was going to go for LS3/5a's, but 1) cost and 2) tonality for music. The stands made a huge difference on the desk. I tested USB from work laptop, optical from MBP and SONOS stream. I was considering refurbishing the Quad 303 in place of the SONOS Amp, which doesn't really get used for streaming in the office!
@judetheobscure My ears are reasonably good but, not good enough to need more than 24 bit files in the car. I do play the phone through a plug-in DAC and wired headphones as that's a nice experience too, I don't have any kit that would cope with DSD above 128 and no funds to purchase any (we're into bike S-1 territory if I do!).
@Cougar I'm unable to empirically prove to you that my ears can tell the difference, because:
1. They're mine.
2. I'm unable to share the processing that my ears use with you in a non destructive manner.
3. Even if I do set you up a testing environment you will shortly be unable to attend as our "Boris Christmas Lockdown II - Lockdown Harder" is due to start.
If you can't tell then all well and good, you can't tell.
How many times do I have to write this? Music on a CD is data not audio. A 1 on a CD is exactly the same as a 1 on your hard drive. Exactly. A CD is not vinyl, there are no 0.5s here. A cheap CD drive won’t result in inferior audio reproduction, the data is either intact or it isn’t.
Except its not quite as simple as that, you may not get a 0.5 but you can get an error that means a 1 gets read as a 0 and vice versa. Also a CD drive is treated like a block device on a PC so you end up reading the data in sectors, red book formatted CD's are not designed to be read like that and thus don't have the framing to allow for accurate positioning on the disk, so your sector reads can overlap or you can end up with gaps between them. So you end up having to read multiple sectors and overlapping them and doing some shifting along to make sure you don't get and gaps etc. So ripping a CD does not always end up with an exact copy. So the better the transport on the CD the more chance you have of not having bit errors, the less bit errors the more chance you have of correcting them. Bit errors can cause noise in the final audio, eventually you will get skips and obviously audible artifacts, but before that there will be general distortion of the audio signal.
I did a final year project at university that involved some ripping of audio CD's and storing them on DAT tape. I discovered it was not as simple as I initially thought.
What @bazzer says +1
Many CD ripper devices have some sort of feature built in to try and make sure the rip is 100% accurate. Some will read the CD multiple times and compare results. Some will generate a checksum based on the CD data read and compare with online database of checksums for the same CD etc.
When you play a music CD on a CD player the data it reads is not 100% accurate to what is on the CD. The CD player will be applying some error correction and filtering to fill in the blanks.
Similar thing occurs in the SPDIF connection, its not guaranteed to transmit with 100% accuracy and the DAC will be applying error correction and filtration to the signal it receives.
I've only done a quick test of High Res music, I downloaded a 24-bit copy of album in WAV format and compared that to 16-bit WAV file ripped bit perfect from the CD. I couldn't hear the difference. So just stuck with 16-bit copies. Been meaning to do a more in-depth test. Don't think my server or DAC support DSD formats? Will have a deeper looking to that.
Apple lossless is a bit of a contentious subject with audio fans.. you could install Roon on your Mac and then send it to a Wi-Fi streamer connected to a usb DAC or to a combined streamer / dac (there are many) but Roon only supports Qobuz and Tidal. You could send it via AirPlay but that’s limited to CD resolution, you could use Chromecast but again CD and not Apple Music.. you could attach a DAC via USB (iFi Zen etc) it be aware hat Mac usb drivers won’t support the full resolution of hi-res (Mac uses Core Audio drivers only (Apple deleted ASIO support from their OS with the release of OSX), there is no ASIO support on Mac.
Unfortunately macOS does not understand DSD. That’s why the DSD over PCM standard has been defined: to send native DSD data inside what macOS believes to be a PCM stream.
But this has a drawback: as it needs to embed markers for the DAC to recognize it as DSD, the needed bandwidth is doubled. Thus on macOS, only half of the DAC max DSD rate is available.
This is why Apple Music “limits” the resolution as they know their hardware can’t support it…. it’s lossless as long as it wasn’t too high res to start 😀.
Basically you need to separate High Res and lossless (which is just a marketing term).
So long story short buy a Bluesound Network streamer Dac connect this via RCA to your AMP and sign up for Tidal (or Quobuz) .. the stream comes straight from the servers via your network to the Node and your Mac (or phone, iPad or whatever) acts as a remote control for this stream
Hope that helps.
I’m unable to empirically prove to you that my ears can tell the difference
Sure you can. You don't need to prove it to me, you just need to prove it to you. I'll believe you.
Get your partner to cue up a few songs whilst you aren't watching. Can you reliably tell the difference?
Except its not quite as simple as that
Sure it is. Because...
The CD player will be applying some error correction and filtering to fill in the blanks.
... that's how ECC works, see that word "correction" right there? If there's errors, it will interpolate the missing data. If errors exceed the capability of ECC then you ain't going to get 'noise' but rather quite the opposite.
I did a final year project at university that involved some ripping of audio CD’s
How long ago? Were they ripped down a digital data bus or over an analogue CD-ROM audio cable?
not good enough to need more than 24 bit files in the car
Yeah pretty pointless unless you have a soundproofed car and hear zero tyre / wind noise when you're listening.
DAC's do colour the sound and some do sound "better" than others.
There was a site that had an extensive list of DACs, reviewed and charted, but I can't for the life of me recall the site address. TBH though it's like anything. Subjective opinion is entirely YMMV. I do love when I see "x DAC blows Y DAC out of the water!" as it's impossible to have identical listening setups and ears.
Get this DAC it's the best I've ever heard!
Big Spotify fan and eagerly awaiting the hifi tier if/when it even happens.
Ripped using a CD-ROM drive completely digitally. I thought it would work in the same way as reading data from from a data CD-ROM its not. If you ask for logical block you don't always get the block you ask for as the disk can't position properly as the format is not designed to do that, its not needed when streaming from a device.
Also the ECC can't correct everything and the odd bit error will not cause a catastrophic loss of audio, in fact you'd probably not even notice if it was the least significant bit.
This is why modern ripping software does a lot of clever stuff to make sure it gets the best copy possible.
Edited for more detail
Data is stored in 2352 block 2048 data the rest ecc, the problem is you read 2352 bytes and due to the problems outlined it could be shifted by a few bytes so you might get a few bytes from the previous block and not all the data from the block you wan't. So you end up having to do overlapped reads of multiple blocks and sliding them along against each other to match up data. This is all well and good but if one read has a bit error (remember this is pre ecc as the ecc is in the data still) then you can't match it up as easily.
Also due to the fact its streamed off the disk when playing if ecc fails then it can't just reposition and do a re-read like a disk drive or a CD-ROM does. So you might end up with bit errors in the stream, this could be anything from inaudible to big clicks. When it skips or fails to play that's normally when its so bad it can't even track the data on the disk.
So a better transport can give less bit errors, and we have not even got to the effects of the clock and its effect on frequency domain distortion.
So if you were to play a CD and record the digital out as data, it would not be the same every time. You would get un-correctable bit errors in different places.
Yet again the forum delivers! Someone whose field of expertise is in CD drive technology appears to explain things in a way we all can understand. Thanks @bazzer
Edited for more detail
Data is stored in 2352 block 2048 data the rest ecc, the problem is you read 2352 bytes and due to the problems outlined it could be shifted by a few bytes so you might get a few bytes from the previous block and not all the data from the block you wan’t. So you end up having to do overlapped reads of multiple blocks and sliding them along against each other to match up data. This is all well and good but if one read has a bit error (remember this is pre ecc as the ecc is in the data still) then you can’t match it up as easily.
Also due to the fact its streamed off the disk when playing if ecc fails then it can’t just reposition and do a re-read like a disk drive or a CD-ROM does. So you might end up with bit errors in the stream, this could be anything from inaudible to big clicks. When it skips or fails to play that’s normally when its so bad it can’t even track the data on the disk.
So a better transport can give less bit errors, and we have not even got to the effects of the clock and its effect on frequency domain distortion.
So if you were to play a CD and record the digital out as data, it would not be the same every time. You would get un-correctable bit errors in different places
STW at its best.
Well, that's me told. (-:
Interesting, I'll go do some reading. Thanks.
@cougar in fairness, when I started I assumed it would work how you envisioned it working and it would be perfect as its digital. However the subtle bit is that if you get multiple bit errors then the ECC can't correct (I forget how many it can correct) and it can't do a retry when playing a CD so those errors are now in the bitstream.
It turns out it's not quite that simple in reality.
@bazzer very interesting insight and not one I’m remotely challenging as I have zero technical knowledge on this subject (I just use my ears), but in terms of generating a 'bit perfect' copy of a CD stored as a digital file, is the variability introduced by the CD-ROM drive negated by the processes undertaken by the ripping software (in the checking and correcting of that copy)?
so those errors are now in the bitstream.
Right. Whereas the conclusion I reached was that those errors would cause the rip to go "it's bollocksed" and dump the process.
I'll go back and refresh my knowledge at some point, I haven't looked at Coloured Books since the 90s. I'm labouring under the notion that Audio CD is held to the same standards as CD-ROM and that's blatantly not the case if you stop and think about it for 30 seconds (which I didn't). Audio CD playback doesn't need to be bit-perfect, does it. Does reproduction from a CD-ROM drive have different connotations from playback from a hi-fi device I wonder?
Hmm. Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
To a point yes, ripping software can re-read data something that a CD-Player can't do, however with all the caveats about positioning etc. However if it continuously reads data again and its got bit errors ecc can't correct (damage/fingerprint or even a poorly aligned/focused laser etc etc) it won't get a perfect copy of what the master digital media contained.
For the most part this is very subtle and it works just fine, I would not worry about it 🙂 Obviously once you have the PCM data ripped to your computer you can copy it without degradation.
@cougar I was talking about a CD-Player when I was talking about the bitstream really.
Years ago a lot of ripping software didn't even bother to do the ECC it made it too slow, I am sure modern stuff might if you ask it to rip in the best quality. However once you have an error you can't correct your only option in that case is to abort the rip. So it's all a compromise.
If I remember correctly its a hamming code style ECC with a 1 to 4 bit redundant vs non redundant data. I would have to check how many bit errors that can correct and how many it can detect. However due to the very nature and size of blemishes etc on disks you tend to get bursts of errors rather than random.
@bazzer I try not to refer to folk as experts as it has awful flashbacks to noughties training where one was a drip under pressure and someone here will also remember it and go down the dad-joke route.
An impressive depth of knowledge. Chapeau.
Do you need to use a laptop/Mac?
I have the Apple lossless library subscription thingy.
I use a Yamaha WXC-50 and use my phone to stream directly to it from the internet.
I have it going straight into a pair of fully active studio monitors and am willing to bet money the sound is far far better than traditional hifi costing thousands.
Anyway, once set up properly the Yamaha is amazing.. just a thought
I have it going straight into a pair of fully active studio monitors and am willing to bet money the sound is far far better than traditional hifi costing thousands.
Active speakers are traditional hifi aren't they? Although it is interesting that active drive is not more common in speaker design; it is something of a flaw I think in the prevailing fashion. I read an interview with the CEO of a company called Stenheim, Swiss manufacturer of high end speakers, who said they would like to produce all their speakers in active configuration but the market demand for this approach is just not high enough to justify bringing those designs to market.
Active speakers are traditional hifi aren’t they?
I’m not really sure what you mean. Fully Active speakers use a crossover split either digitally or at line level or below, with the signal fed to discrete amplifiers designed to feed either a tweeter or a woofer each.
Traditional hifi throws it all together and splits the signal with a passive crossover at 75+v which results in all sorts of horribly broad filters and phase disruption..
(and yep, it is interesting....the pro audio world have used active monitoring for about 40 years (it will always be more accurate, is a "better" design and does away with a lot of problems inherent to passive systems).
However, the hi-fi world remains mostly passive because it's driven by the marketing of an "upgrade path". People want to save up for the next best thing, the next shiny thing etc. As a consumer I understand that but as an ex-engineer (sort of) I find it excruciating when magazines lay into Active designs purely based on it not fitting their business models/advertising streams very well)
I generally stay well away from conversations like this as there'll always be someone arguing against the engineering advantages of active systems as they don't want to feel like their £4000 system isn't as accurate as £800 monitors... 😀
(and in the interest of balance, my monitors sound fantastic but are a bit ugly as most are)
Funny you should say that.
I was considering replacing the iMac + AE with one of these.
https://www.richersounds.com/yamaha-wxad10-darkgrey.html?nosto=nosto-page-category2
Traditional hifi throws it all together and splits the signal with a passive crossover at 75+v which results in all sorts of horribly broad filters and phase disruption..
Well yes, but there are lots of active speaker designs in the audiophille world. ATC spring to mind as a leading proponent. Audio Note (UK)'s top end speakers all have external crossovers (though I'm not sure if they are active or passive in execution).
I'm not sure why the fashion is for an internal passive crossover but I'm not sure it's about the upgrade path; external active crossovers don't preclude this and in fact they increase the potential for endless updagrades exponentially (because now you can even more boxes). Naim are big into this for instance (active external crossovers).
Also, whilst the thing that audio engineers care about is indeed 'accuracy', what most audiophiles care about is 'music'. There's a subtle difference between the two but when the two intersect then you get an especially good result.
Once you go down the streamer route, then you have to factor in the control/app part (unless you have Roon). I have a Yamaha streaming amp in the garage but the MusicCast app isn't very good, whereas the Bluesound streamer/active Flex speakers in the main house uses the BluOS app and is so much better. The upshot is I hardly ever use the Yammy to stream stuff, whereas the Bluesound stuff gets used pretty much ever day.
Thanks for all the input people, much appreciated.
I have decided against a non Apple streamer and will be giving a separate DAC a go.
I have a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100 arriving tomorrow.
Updates to follow.